Linux-Advocacy Digest #458, Volume #27 Tue, 4 Jul 00 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do (Gary
Hallock)
Re: It's not Commie to dethrone kings (Cihl)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Just a thought of something missing (Cihl)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Gary Hallock)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Cihl)
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux code going down hill ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. ("Brian")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 16:14:11 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Hallock) wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >You are the only one that has hit these problems and they have not been
> >able to be reproduced by anyone.
>
> That doesn't mean they don't exist.
No, but then it means you have a very unusual copy of Linux.
>
>
> >"For instance, you have two kfm processes running. You want to copy the
> >text from one t'other. CTRl-C CTRL-V is
> > a standard key sequence (no, it wasn't created by Windows!) and kfm
> > doesn't
> >recognise it. Even clicking on the
> > buttons doesn't work!"
> >
> >This is a lie.
>
> Um, well, the X way of copy paste works but CTRL-C CTRL-V doesn't. I fail
> to see why you call this a lie.
Because CTRL-C CTRL-V DOES work. At least for everyone besides you.
>
>
> >"Linux KDE doesn't even have drag to application,
> > sheesh!"
> >
> >This is a lie.
>
> It is? Can I drag a file from kfm to Netscape. Um, by default, it doesn't
> work. Someone pointed that it can be made to work.
Yes you can. I'm sorry you copy of Linux is so screwed up.
>
>
> > "Really. Still have your hands over your ears I see.
> >
> > Drag a file from kfm, drag it to Netscape.
> >
> > What happens?
> >
> > Nothing."
> >
> >This is a lie.
>
> See above.
See above.
> >I specifically asked you what you meant by KDE Explorer. You never
> >responded. I can't believe you couldn't figure out what the program is
> >called. I just downloaded a copy to check it out. Click on Help.
> >The menu that pops up has three choices - Contents, About kruiser, About
> >KDE. That might give you a clue. Click on Contents. Up pops "The
> >Kruiser Handbook". Go back to Help->About kruiser. It says version
> >0.4. By convention, fractional releases are beta. That should give
> >you a clue that it might not be meant for general consumption.
>
> It was installed on the KDE menu as "KDE Windows explorer", so naturally I
> assumed it was something like kexplorer. I had no idea that it was kruiser.
> It took me a while to figure it out, because I couldn't believe other
> people hadn't even heard of it.
>
> At lot of things seem to be beta on Linux. smbfs is one, apparently.
> kruiser is another. What the hell is a distro like Mandrake 7.1 doing
> shipping beta code? Probably to make up for the lack of applications on
> Linux, I guess.
>
Kruiser is not part of the standard KDE distribution. I had never heard of it
before. There are all sorts of programs available for Linux. Some good,
some not so good. You are blaming KDE and Linux for some beta third party
program.
>
> >What? What do you think JFS is? You said UNIX filesystems and JFS IS
> >a UNIX fliesystem. Or are you now claiming that Linux is UNIX but AIX
> >is not UNIX?
>
> And what do you think ext2fs is? Is it not a UNIX filesystem? Is JFS _all_
> the filing systems on every UNIX system out there?
>
No JFS is not all file systems for UNIX, but neither is ext2fs. Your claim
that UNIX file systems can't handle a power outage is just plain wrong,
because it implies that there are no UNIX file systems that can handle a power
outage. In this day and age, most can.
Your problem is that you never ask how to do something. Instead if it
doesn't behave just like Windows or if you can't figure it out, you make
outrageous claims that Linux or KDE has a problem or is limited in some
feature. You whole attitude toward Linux is one that is going to get you
flamed.
Gary
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's not Commie to dethrone kings
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:16:39 GMT
Laura Goodwin wrote:
> =
> I just had to say that. :)
> =
> (I'm now dual-booting Win98 SE and Definite Linux 7.0)
> =
> --
> Laura Goodwin
> =
> "Pain is fleeting, glory is forever.
> Remember: scars are sexy."
Hey, i'm curious. Which peripherals did you get to work? I mean, with
your Windows-hardware and all.
-- =
=A8I live!=A8
=A8I hunger!=A8
=A8Run, coward!=A8
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:15:34 -0500
On 4 Jul 2000 14:56:45 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
wrote:
>In article <39621bad$0$17014$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> >And, as usual, blown *way* out of proportion. I've been using PCs for a
>>> >long, long time and the number of IRQ conflicts I've ever had has been
>>> >miniscule and taken all of about 5 minutes to resolve.
>>>
>>> Perhaps your configurations just happen to be tiny.
>>
>>I'd call them "average" in most cases, with a few "above average". I don't
>>have any I'd call "tiny". "Tiny" to me is a machine with nothing more than
>>a (single) hard disk controller and a floppy controller (+ the other
>>essentials like timer, keyboard etc).
>>
>>I am speaking in the context of an average end use here, as well, so don't
>>be silly and quote some high-end purpose-built server config - it just isn't
>>relevant.
>
>Why not? Don't you think people run Linux on them?
Can you demonstrate Linux has problems with hardware? My setup of
hardware in Linux has been successful, and I've generally used
hardware essentially similar to what I previously posted.
>>My personal machine has 2 NICs, 2 SCSI cards, video card, sound card and a
>>very old, dodgy logitech scanner card.
>>
>>> If you have
>>> sound, 2 IDE's, 2 serial ports, a parallel port, on NIC
>>> and one SCSI, you are out of IRQ's even if you still have 2
>>> slots left. PCI cards are designed to share IRQ's but I
>>> don't think all the linux drivers understand that yet.
>>
>>Which is a Linux problem. Although my personal system has no troubles under
>>Linux (it did initially with the TNT card sharing an IRQ).
>>
>>However, many crappy cards also don't share IRQs well, which is a hardware
>>issue. The solution, I should hope, is obvious.
>
>ISA cards never share interrupts. With PCI the motherboard bios
>assigns them assuming sharing is OK. I still see warnings about
>sharing in comments in the drivers even though they may now
>mostly default to allowing it.
I'm using Win2k's drivers; no warnings, no problems.
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:19:23 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Oh, oh, a tirade from Charlie.
>
> >Well, obviously old Charlie is a threat to you Pete.
>
> Oh you're no threat to me at all.
Then I guess you shouldn't mention my name in honor then.
>
>
> >And I'm honored again by you....
>
> It's no honour at all, really, Charlie.
Yes it is. I'm conversing with a 13 year old again.
>
>
> >I was on the ground floor when Microsoft boxed the first dos.
>
> Not sure what to make of this. I was working at Digital when I first heard
> of DOS.
>
Umm humm.
>
> >This is why you and others always want to refer to specific versions of
> >Windows! Oh that was Windows 3.11! Oh that was Windows 95!
> >Oh that was Windows 98. Oh that was Windows 98 SE!
>
> No... I want people to realise that Windows 98 is not the same as Windows
> 2000. Attributing problems to "Windows", like hanging on shutdown, gives
> the reader the impression that all versions of Windows do this - whilst in
> fact it is really only Windows 98 SE. Not Windows 2000
>
Umm Humm.
>
> >And I hold this in position to you idiotic comparison to Linux!
>
> Your trying to twist what I'm saying.
>
No. I think everyone would agree we are just >repeating what your saying.
>
> >You never see people on Linux Advocacy or ANYWHERE ELSE for
> >that matter refering to the OH THAT WAS REDHAT 4.2.. OH THAT
> >WAS SUSE 5.0!!! OH THAT WAS KERNEL 2.0....
>
> Really? You don't read COLA much do you then? I see plenty of people
> referring to Mandrake 7.1 or SuSE!
>
I've been on COLA for 6 years.
>
> >TRUELY, I don't know of anyone, you included PETE, who doesn't have a
> >bitch about a windows platform!
>
> I've bitched about Windows 98 SE, but not Windows 2000. I happen to rather
> like Windows 2000. Your being twisty again.
>
Ohhh, you've bitched about more than that Pete.
You've made statements about Windows 95, Windows 3.11, Dos even.
You've said NT wasn't as good as 2000.
What haven't you hit?
>
> >Windows is at a dis-advantage as it costs you some serious cash to play.
> >Linux does not have this dis-advantage.
>
> Hmm... I believe you pay for you get. If you paid nothing for it, then,
> well...
>
If you pay for something, then you better get it.
>
> >Windows is always attempting to reach for the stars with every release,
> >only to fall into the pit of failure taking their customer base with
> >them on every new item.
>
> Sounds like propoganda to me.
>
It's not propaganda. How does one get from working for Digital
and then becomming a lowly .dll driver writer for Windows?
This is propaganda.
It's kind of like President Bush taking a job shoveling shit at some
kiddie pet farm.
>
> >Windows OS's are, and probably will always be, written from the ground
> >floor up!
> >They truely didn't bring anything over from NT nor 98 into 2000.
>
> Really... funny, Windows 2000 makes the claim, "Based on NT Technology".
It shares nothing in common with NT. OF course you know this being
a Windows programmer. You have the lastest API kit from them don't you?
>
>
> >In-fact, the closest cousins we see are the 95 and 98 releationsships.
>
> 98 is based on 95, so 2000 is based on NT?
>
No my clever 13 year old .dll driver writer from DEC.
It's not.
>
> >Linux is a progressive build. They prove their code first, then move
> >on. Out of the Linux distribution since day 1, less than 5% of the
> >overall GNU code
> >has been retired.
>
> Well, it could be that Linux is stuck in the past. Judging by the number of
> people who claim the command line satisfies their every need, that would be
> appear to be true.
It's building from the past. They don't just THROW the past away and
start from the ground floor up.
>
>
> >You could NOT say that there is 5% of the code from NT in Windows 2000.
> >You could NOT say that there is 5% of the code from 98 in Windows 2000.
>
> So, what percentage is it Charlie? Um, and how would you prove it? Do you
> have access to the developers?
Just look at the API calls. The comments in your API development kid.
You know, that thing you buy with 13 CD's in it Pete!
The thing every .dll driver writer from DEC has with him at all time's.
Like the rifle is to the soldier, the API kit is to the .dll writer from DEC!
Notice all the API changes!
>
>
> >In-fact, customer satisfaction comes in large part by not concealing
> >things in the kernel and other .dll's.
>
> Ah... now we're talking about some of Microsoft's less pleasant things. I'm
> well aware of the DLL's that shipped with IE that had general purpose code
> in, and that was deliberate.
And if that's all your aware of Pete then your career must have been
only a year or so.
I suppose you've never heard of the secret API's which work faster
than the ones they advertize in our API kit.
>
>
> >Much of Microsofts current day failure is their concealment of
> >consiparcy code against other vendors. The Security leaks and their
> >continual refusal to fix them. {ILOVEYOU} has been well known for
> >months now. Where's the patch to fix this?
>
> Microsoft could hardly be said to be a failure.
>
No. You have to give them credit for piling all those gullible people
onto their platform.
More people have heard of Microsoft and Windows then they have of
Hitler these days.
The billions in sales do account for something? Don't they?
What of committement toward the customer? They've never had that.
>
> As for the patch, it would appear to be on their website. I've not tried
> it, as I don't use Outlook. I use something called "The Bat" which doesn't
> support executing scripts.
Well,
How do you expect me to argue with you my servant when even you admit
the internet thing with Microsoft is shit. Geeze.
>
>
> >Eventually Pete, even you will evolve to be self aware someday.
> >And you will realize that your nothing more than my servant.
>
> Boy o boy, you're delusions of grandeur are getting bigger and bigger! Have
> you seen your shrink lately?
>
> Pete
Then why are you writing me my servant.
It is not dusk yet.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: 4 Jul 2000 15:10:21 -0500
In article <8jt6lq$e9b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> there is virtually no difference in "stability",
>> "process management" and "memory management" between them.
>> In fact I had to look to see what I was using.
>>
>
>Are you insane? :)
>
>Maybe im just throwing alot more at my machines, but its quite plain to me
>exactly what im running without ever looking.
Yes, I always find freebsd to be different enough from my
old sysv experience to be annoyingly confusing.
Do you happen to have any experience with mysql under freebsd?
I sort-of inherited a box running apache and mod_perl with
a mysql backend under freebsd and periodically it locked up
with mysql never finishing it's queries even though normally
they complete very quickly. Also top always shows mysqld
consuming some CPU time even if it isn't doing much. I moved
the myqsl to a Linux box and everything was fine with no
other changes (start-up options are the same in both cases).
I tried building exactly the same version of mysql on the
freebsd box and putting it back, but still had the same
problem. Any ideas?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users?
Date: 4 Jul 2000 15:16:45 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>But how many people are actually USING Linux?
>
>I have some 15 different distributions/versions on my shelf and use
>none of them.
And I've downloaded one, then installed it over the local network
on about 20 machines. Other places have probably done the same
with hundreds.
>Trying Linux and sticking with Linux are two completely different
>things.
Perhaps on the desktop it doesn't suit everyone's taste yet. On
the server side you install it and leave it alone for a year
or so. But, the number of copies sold certainly has nothing
to do with the copies being run since it doesn't account for
the downloads and multiple installations.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just a thought of something missing
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:20:20 GMT
"Marada C. Shradrakaii" wrote:
> =
> Why is there no open-source pinball game available for X11, AFAICT? I =
looked
> around today, and all I could find was one binary-only, and a project t=
o make
> one. It would seem like a good game to have-- A 2D one would need not =
be too
> demanding on the hardware, and it would be widely enjoyable without thi=
ck docs.
> --
> Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii
> Colony name not needed in address.
> DC2.Dw Gm L280c W+ T90k Sks,wl Cma-,wbk Bsu#/fl A+++ Fr++ Nu M/ O H++ $=
+ Fo++
> R++ Ac+ J-- S-- U? I++ V+ Q++[thoughtspeech] Tc++
Hold on. The Linux gaming-industry is still waiting, picking up steam.
I don't think it will take long before the first finished
pinball-games arrive.
-- =
=A8I live!=A8
=A8I hunger!=A8
=A8Run, coward!=A8
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 16:23:48 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
>
> Customer lock-in is what IBM is all about. That's why their
> mainframe systems are the ONLY ones in the world using EBCDIC
> rather than ASCII...
>
That's why (well, one reason) I'm moving from VM/CMS to Linux for S/390 - no
more EBCDIC. You still have the power of S/390 but compatibility with the
rest of the world. I believe Linux is the first OS to run on a mainframe
that uses ASCII.
Gary
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:29:29 GMT
Tim Palmer wrote:
> =
> >
> >In windows, you install drivers and reboot, In UNIX and its derivative=
s, you
> >edit text files. That's just the way it is.
> =
> No in UNIX you recompial the cernal and all the app's and most of the h=
ardware doesn't work atall.
I don't think so Tim. (Al)
Nowadays Linux has very, very good hardware support indeed. This
taking into account that most manufacturers have non-disclosure deals
with Mightgosoft.
Try finding another alternative OS which has such good hardware
support.
> >>
> >> Windows has been doing this for many years now.
> >
> >UNIX has been doing its thing for many more.
> =
> ...its thing =3D shfulling text
What are you trying to say, Tim. That other OS's can't 'shfull' text
around? Ever seen a Windows INI-file, or the ever-ballooning
Windows-registry? Doesn't look like bare code to me.
Come to think of it; The Windows-registry makes Windows shuffle text,
but it still is almost unreadable by humans. What's the deal with that
anyway?
-- =
=A8I live!=A8
=A8I hunger!=A8
=A8Run, coward!=A8
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 20:31:59 GMT
Rich C writes:
>> Cihl writes:
>>> Could somebody PLEASE tell what the hell this is?
>> It's a digest of the articles posted by Joe Malloy, who claims to post
>> them for entertainment purposes. Better to have just one response than
>> several.
> Could you PLEASE not crosspost this crap to our newsgroup, unless it's
> specifically relevant?
It's not possible to determine which newsgroup you consider to be
"our" newsgroup. And you'd be better off taking up the matter with
Joe Malloy, given that I was simply responding to a posting of his
that appeared in "our" newsgroup. Don't expect him to accept
responsibility, however.
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: 4 Jul 2000 20:36:05 GMT
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: For me, I prefer FreeBSD. There is nothing that I can think of that I cannot
: do under FreeBSD that I can do under linux, with improved stability, process
: management and memory management to boot. Add to that the incredibly well
: organized CVSup utility and Ports collection and you have an operating system
: that exceeds linux by leaps and bounds...
FreeBSD is nice and probably better for some people than Linux. I
love the concept of the ports collection, and I'm told there are
several situations where its kernel can be considerably more stable
than Linux.
For now I stick with Linux for two reasons. First, because I'm still
dependent on a few pieces of proprietary software, including
StarOffice, which AFAIK aren't supported on FreeBSD. Second, Linux
also seems to be undergoing much more rapid development. I realize
this may be a bad thing in situations where stability and security are
paramount (although since I come from the M$ world, either OS seems
like heaven compared to what I'm used to). But it's a good thing for
someone like me whose primary motivations for learning and using an OS
include learning. I use a very bleeding-edge distro - Mandrake - and
end up having to learn to fix a variety of things myself that I'm sure
I wouldn't have to with FreeBSD (or Debian or Slackware). That's how
I learn.
: I cannot understand for the life of me why it hasnt been adopted for the
: desktop en masse.
I think desktop acceptance will hinge on the same two things that
delayed Linux' acceptance there - applications and hardware support.
But both are coming along nicely, and free software and drivers if
well-written should be trivial to port to the free *BSDs.
I am planning on switching to OpenBSD for firewall use and am
definitely interested in learning more about FreeBSD. With KDE2 and
its functional KWord and Konqueror applications, I'll be able to ditch
proprietary software completely, and that may be a good time to start
to learn more about the *BSD world.
Joe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Date: 4 Jul 2000 15:46:12 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>While I haven't been to alt.os.linux.mandrake, I'm sure there is an army
>>of people there helping that army of people who need help.
>
>At the moment there's confusion as many people say "it works for me" and
>just as many say "not for me".
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Pick
one.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:00:20 GMT
John Hasler wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Such an inverter is poorly designed.
True.
I have replaced a mountain of inverter transistors from just such poorly
designed units.
Brian
------------------------------
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