Linux-Advocacy Digest #458, Volume #33 Mon, 9 Apr 01 01:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (GreyCloud)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (GreyCloud)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (silverback)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (GreyCloud)
Re: MS and ISP's (Ed Allen)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (GreyCloud)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (Robert
Sturgeon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:53:02 +1200
<snype>
> Kernel in itself can do nothing applications are the entities what makes it
> worth while to turn on the machine. That's how the distros get the companies
> to pay for their distros. It won't be long before even the desktop versions
> will be licensed. Sure, you still can have the barebone freebie but there
> will be no compelling reason to have it without the apps.
Would I object to that? no. Even though there are a few out there who thinks
the whole world owes them a free copy of [insert favourite software title], I
am quite prepared to pay for a copy of Linux. In fact, I normally buy a new
distro every time there is a new, major kernel release, such as moving from 2.2
to 2.4, I can't be bothered downloading a tonnes of files, so I buy it it on
cd, and as a bonus, I get 90 days free technical support. Compared that to
Windows 2000, which comes with no free technical-support, and when you want it,
the only way to get in contact them is via a toll call, and on top of that,
they expect you to pay the support on top of the cost of the call. If that is
what you call quality software with customer support, I would hate to know what
isn't.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:52:17 -0700
WGAF wrote:
>
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Dave Martel wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 03:45:47 GMT, "WGAF" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >You'd have hard time naming some commercial
> > > >grade application for Linux. Even if you do, they won't be free.
> > >
> > > TCLPro, Corel PhotoPaint, WordPerfect, Snif+, not to mention the usual
> > > apps like GIMP and XEmacs. There's bunches more but it's been a long
> > > day.
> >
> > Sorry, for a win-advocate (such as WGAF), unless Microsoft produces an
> > application for Linux, then everything else that runs on it must be
> > sub-standard!
>
> As oppose to a lin-advocate for whom quality doesn't matter as long as the
> software isn't from Microsoft, right?
>
> Otto
You're too used to doing things the MickeySoft way.
You wouldn't know quality if it came up and bit ya on the ass.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:54:27 -0700
WGAF wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > Caldera is already having troubles from what I've heard on the net.
> > (A lot of things are heard about different things.) But since its still
> > Linux
> > people will weigh what is it that they're getting for their money? The
> > average user
> > doesn't need it. The 5 user license more than likely can be
> > circumvented by looking around for the equivalent for free. The spirit
> > of Linux is just that... free and good.
>
> No, the spirit of Linux is to circumvent. If that doesn't work, then crack
> it...
Yep, and the spirit of Mafia$oft is to covertly steal others works.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:04 GMT
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 00:40:12 -0400, JulianD. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 00:35:22 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(silverback) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:24:16 -0400, JulianD. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:25:00 -0700, Robert Sturgeon
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:38:28 GMT,
>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:18:59 -0700, Robert Sturgeon
>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:29:39 GMT,
>>>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(snips)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yeah, it's right-wing socialism, characterized by vertical integration
>>>>>>>>of the industrial sector.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>there is no such thing as right wing socialism dumb fuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What then do you suppose Nazi means?
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't give a fuck what the name means dummy. Unless yer one of the
>>>>>idiots that still thinks East germany was a democracy and China a
>>>>>republic.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for being totally open about your willful
>>>>ignorance.
>>>
>>>If was totally open all the time about his ignorance, this group would
>>>be nothing but silvernut's posts.
>>
>>still think a name means more than their actions asshole? Yer a
>>really dumb one ifyou do.
>
>let's step outside.
sure you firat so I can kick yer dumb ass good.
>
>>
>>***********************************************
>>
>>GDY Weasel
>>emailers remove the spam buster
>>
>>For those seeking enlightenment visit the White Rose at
>>
>>http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/whiterose.htm
>>
>>*********************************************
>
***********************************************
GDY Weasel
emailers remove the spam buster
For those seeking enlightenment visit the White Rose at
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/whiterose.htm
*********************************************
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:59:59 -0700
"robert@-" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> GreyCloud says...
>
> >
> >Ever tried Solaris 8??
> >
>
> Solaris is definitly better organized and better managed than the
> chaotic way that Linux distro and the linux apps are managed.
>
> at least on Solaris they now have a GUI installer for everything.
>
> Still Solaris for the desktop is a joke. you can't even play DVD
> on Solaris and netscape on Solaris (as netscape on every unix) is
> a joke.
>
> I think Unix is destined to remain a server only environment, and even
> in this, windows seems to be gaining grounds.
You can now. Try it, you'll like it. Even the new entry level Suns can
now make use of DVDs. Its new for Solaris 8. Sun is being more like
Linux every month. Around June or July they will be packaging and
supporting Gnome2.0.
Netscape is netscapes' problem. There are others.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MS and ISP's
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:01:05 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, JS PL <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
>
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> The agreements are illegal when used by a monopoly holder to
>> strengthen or extend that monopoly. Both of which MS did with their
>> agreements.
>>
>> There are no hard numbers beneath which a monopoly cannot exist and
>> must be exceeded to guarantee monopoly. Actions, like exclusive
>> contracts, which can be legal for non monopolies may be deemed anti-
>> competitive when done by a monopoly holder.
>
>That assumes there are any software companies on earth who hold a monopoly
>on anything. All of your statements above are void because MS doesn't hold a
>monopoly on anything..... especially operating systems.
>
In the paragraph below this I show that MS themselves believe that they
have a legal monopoly.
Their phrase, taken from copyright law is, "the exclusive right."
>>
>> MS is using copyright laws to declare that they have a legally
>> granted monopoly because no other company is allowed, by law, to
>> produce their own version of Windows.
>
>Owning the Windows code isn't a "monopoly" on operating systems. Market
>share doesn't determine that your a monopoly either. Microsoft Windows could
>be on every computer on earth. And even if no other OS existed, MS wouldn't
>even be close to having a monopoly on operating systems. My power company
>has a miniscule fraction of the energy market share. Yet they are a full
>blown monopoly.
>
Since having their OS on 100% of all computers does not qualify as a
monopoly and since the government granted exclusive franchise given to
your power company does but the exclusive right that MS asserts does not.
You will now need to describe this chameleon like word as you perceive
it.
>>
>> When they negotiated those agreements while knowing that they had
>> a monopoly, government granted or not, they were acting anti-
>> competitively.
>>
>> That is, according to the Sherman Act, a felony.
>>
>> --
>> Linux -- The Unix defragmentation tool.
>
>
--
Linux -- The Unix defragmentation tool.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:03:41 -0700
Becker wrote:
>
> "robert@-" wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > GreyCloud says...
> >
> > >
> > >Ever tried Solaris 8??
> > >
> >
> > Solaris is definitly better organized and better managed than the
> > chaotic way that Linux distro and the linux apps are managed.
> >
> > at least on Solaris they now have a GUI installer for everything.
> >
> > Still Solaris for the desktop is a joke. you can't even play DVD
> > on Solaris and netscape on Solaris (as netscape on every unix) is
> > a joke.
> >
>
> You know, this has always puzzled me. Scott McNealy (Sun CEO) has
> a very public distain for Microsoft. This is without question. Yet,
> Sun's CDE (Common Desktop Environment) is an absolute joke. You would
> think that this would be a no-brainer for McNealy and he'd get the
> lead out and put out a respectable window manager with drag-n-drop,
> file managers, multimedia, etc..
>
> It's one thing for McNealy to sit around and bitch about Microsoft, but
> if he (McNealy) cannot produce the goodies for the desktop, then SHUT-UP!
>
> > I think Unix is destined to remain a server only environment, and even
> > in this, windows seems to be gaining grounds.
>
> This may or may not be true. I don't know the figures and really don't
> care. I will say that Microsoft is walking a very fine line with Windows
> XP with all the bullshit registration stuff. I don't like the idea of
> my operating systerm contacting Microsoft to say "Hi!".
>
> Patrick
Well, it keeps changing. I e-mailed Scott about a year ago and
challenged him to provide an o/s for the masses. No word about it, but
it appears that Sun is starting to look more like Linux these days.
Even their latest GUI admin tools are looking exactly like Gnome tools.
I can't trust XP yet. After being bitten so many times from MSs' bugs
and BSODs I'm very wary of anything that says "New and Improved".
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 01:03:26 -0400
sliverdick wrote:
>
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 12:46:01 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Mathew wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >>
> >> > Mathew wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > "Scott D. Erb" wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > "Scott D. Erb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > > > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > However, I suspect Marx would be spinning
>in
> >> > > > > > > > his grave to see his ideas associated with Stalin or Mao.
>Ideological
> >> > > > > > > > development is complex.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I have to address this before I address anything else, because I
>think this
> >> > > > > > > is pivotal.
> >> > > > > > > Marx was a monster. If you read Manifesto you will find:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Marx was naive. He believed that if you got rid of capitalism you could
>have complete
> >> > > > > liberty, the state would whither away, you would end exploitation. He
>was motivated
> >> > > > > by the industrial slums, and how horrid the workers were paid. He wanted
>the workers
> >> > > > > to rise up against that, and believed if they did they could collectively
>control the
> >> > > > > means of production and everyone would be better off.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > And yet, you still promote the policies based on the theories of this
> >> > > > man WHO YOU HAVE JUST ADMITTED was a fool.
> >> > >
> >> > > And you promoted dealing with a totalitarian facist fundamentalist Iran.
> >> > > Now tell me how you are not a Commuinist?
> >> >
> >> > Iran is fascist now....
> >>
> >> They have been fascist since the Ayatollah took over,but also a bit
> >> under the Shah.
> >
> >Iran has a socialist, vertically integrated economy.
>
> and yer fucking nuts.
> and that is beyond any doubt.
Translation: Sliverdick has been beaten. That's why he's not resorting
to personal attacks to the exclusion of arguing the facts.
>
> >
> >If not, then it ain't fascist.
>
> fascism has nothing to do with socialism fuckhead. Fascism is based on
> corporate rule and capatilism.
Only in your twisted mind. Under capitalism, all businessmen are free
to conduct business in a free market. Under Fascism, small businessmen
are only allowed to operate with the permission of the big businessmen...
therefore, Fascism is NOT capitalism.
Hope that helps, sliverdick.
>
> >
> >Merely being a non-Communist police state doesn't make a government "fascist"
> >hope the helps, marxist bastard.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Must be some new definition of fascist with which the rest of the
> >> > English-speaking is unfamiliar.
> >> >
> >> > Or by "fascist" do you merely mean "non-Communist"
> >>
> >> You should know what fascist means.
> >
> >Yeah, it's right-wing socialism, characterized by vertical integration
> >of the industrial sector.
>
> there is no such thing as right wing socialism dumb fuck
It's called FASCISM, monkey-butt.
>
> >
> >Since Iran doesn't even have an industrial sector worth noting,
> >it fails the test.
>
> the hell it doesn't have an industrial sector
What is Iran noted for exporting, other than pistachios.
>
> >
> >That doesn't mean that it's not a police state...it's merely
> >a police state that *ISN'T* fascist.
>
> its fascist get over it stupid.
>
Clue for the fucking clueless: "A non-communist government, which is disliked
by by sliverdick" is NOT the definition of Fascism, ya moron!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > He was wrong. Dead wrong. Tragically wrong. But there is no way Marx
>or Engels (and
> >> > > > > I've read a lot of their private writings, including a lot of Engels
>stuff in the
> >> > > > > original German) would have ever supported the kind of brutal tactics of
>a Stalin, Mao
> >> > > > > or Pol Pot.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > And yet, you still push for the kinds of policies which can ONLY be
> >> > > > successfully implemented by a Stalin, Mao, or Pol P
> >> > >
> >> > > > Why is that?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > 1. Complete liquidation of private property
> >> > > > > > > 2. Liquidation of the family, introduction of "official, open mutual
> >> > > > > > > ownership of wives"
> >> > > > > > > 3. Children taken from families are brought up by community (Hillary,
> >> > > > > > > hello!)
> >> > > > > > > 4. Industrial armies, not employer - employee, (and that is from the
>guy who
> >> > > > > > > LOVES proletariat!)
> >> > > > > > > 5. Central credit by central banks with total banking monopoly for the
> >> > > > > > > State.
> >> > > > > > > 6. Age when children start working - 9 years of age (Resolution of
>Geneva
> >> > > > > > > International Congress).
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > If this is not the most monstrous document in the history of the
> >> > > > > > > civilization, please, state which one is.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > This system was implemented four times almost totally - in Hitler's
> >> > > > > > > concentration camps, Stalin's GULAG and Mao's re-educational
>settlements and
> >> > > > > > > Pol Pots' Cambodia camps.
> >> > > > > > > Partially - USSR, Red China, Vietnam, North Korea.
> >> > > > > > > Superficially - Poland, E. Germany, Hungary, Mongolia, Czeckoslovakia
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Why would Marx be spiining other than out of excitment?
> >> > > > > > > Typical (I hate this word) socialist attitude - they all have
>aberrated
> >> > > > > > > Marx. NO! THEY DIDN'T!
> >> > > > > > > All socialists remain civilized untill they seize the power. Then the
> >> > > > > > > Marxist bestiary begins.
> >> > > > > > > EVERY TIME.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Marx was fantasizing about what he thought would lead to a utopia. He
>was wrong. He
> >> > > > > thought the state would whither away, it didn't. His goal was to end
>alienation and
> >> > > > > create perfect liberty, his ideas did not lead that direction. His
>errors were
> >> > > > > typical of 19th century social science (over-determination, bad
>predictions), and
> >> > > > > ultimately the errors in his theories helped lead to the kinds of horror
>you
> >> > > > > describe. But to demonize Marx personally because of that is simply
>misguided, and of
> >> > > > > course irrelevant.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > At the very least now Social Democrats and most leftists recognize that
>the vision of
> >> > > > > "scientific socialism" espoused by Lenin and the Communists was not only
>wrong, but
> >> > > > > evil in its actions. Social Democracy does not lead to the kind of evil
>you
> >> > > > > describe. Sweden has no gulags, Norway is not run like Pol Pot's China.
>You're
> >> > > > > overstating your case. The danger comes not from Marx, but from any
>attempt to
> >> > > > > centralize power to try to shape society without that power being
>accountable to the
> >> > > > > people. Marx was dead wrong not to understand or realize that, but I am
>convinced
> >> > > > > that he and Engels personally would have been appalled by what later was
>done in their
> >> > > > > name. Their theory was a failure, but to demonize them is simply silly.
> >> > > > > cheers, scott
> >> > > > > http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Robert Sturgeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:05:52 -0700
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 00:34:45 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:25:00 -0700, Robert Sturgeon
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:38:28 GMT,
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:18:59 -0700, Robert Sturgeon
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:29:39 GMT,
>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>(snips)
>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, it's right-wing socialism, characterized by vertical integration
>>>>>>of the industrial sector.
>>>>>
>>>>>there is no such thing as right wing socialism dumb fuck
>>>>
>>>>What then do you suppose Nazi means?
>>>
>>>I don't give a fuck what the name means dummy. Unless yer one of the
>>>idiots that still thinks East germany was a democracy and China a
>>>republic.
>>
>>Thank you for being totally open about your willful
>>ignorance.
>
>still think a name means more than their actions? Come on answer up
>little ignorant asshole.
I seriously doubt that you have a working understanding of
their actions. And if you think you can order me to "answer
up," or anything else, over usenet you are one deluded fool.
But that is already obvious.
--
Robert Sturgeon-
Proud member of The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
------------------------------
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