Linux-Advocacy Digest #459, Volume #27 Tue, 4 Jul 00 18:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this! (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Sean LeBlanc)
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 ("Rich C")
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond
(was Re: Linux is junk)) (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Which Linux should I try? (Ray Chason)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 ("Rich C")
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux code going down hill (abraxas)
Re: Linux code going down hill (abraxas)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98) (Ray Chason)
Re: Another CommyLie-nux Commy expoased! (was: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics
(was: Linux is awesome!) (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Linux beats Win2k yet again! (Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?=)
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? ("Alexey Zolotukhin")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this!
Date: 4 Jul 2000 16:04:08 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>What happens when your programs try to resolve each other's
>>names or even their own and your internet link is down?
>>This may explain the hangups you have had.
>
>Well, one PC is called BIGPC, and the other is called PC166. I'm not very
>hot on imaginative names 8).
>
>In the hosts file (on both machines) it has
>
>10.0.0.1 bigpc
>10.0.0.2 pc166
>
>Since I never refer to other nodes, what confusion will there be?
Internet mailers always deal in fully qualified domain names
and ask DNS about MX records before falling back to A
records (it is typical to deliver mail to a machine other
than the one actually named if it even exists).
>On my main PC when I connect to the internet, yes, there is a DNS server
>etc. but all IP requests go through that first, then through my hosts file.
>No problem so far.
If you have a server running all the time, you can configure it
as a primary DNS server for your local domain (which can be
fictitious) and otherwise either be a plain caching server
or slave to your ISP's. That way all local machines can always
use this as their resolver. You can run a dhcp server here too
for your local net if you sometimes plug in a laptop or often
reconfigure your other machines.
>>Why not? There are several good POP mailers, and Netscape
>>isn't too bad with IMAP.
>
>Well, there's this ticklish problem. I download the messages from the POP
>server. I could setup EMail on Linux so that it doesn't download, but I'm
>not really interested in using EMail on Linux. I do use kfm and Netscape as
>browsers, and I have tried krn (yuk!) for USENET.
With a stable server in place, you could use fetchmail to gather
your mail from the remote pop server(s) and deliver locally to
a Linux mailbox - then you could access it via IMAP from any
of the machines (Outlook/Netscape on windows, Netscape/Pine/others
on Linux) You can create multiple folders on the server and
all are accessable from any client. You can even drag messages
you have already downloaded back into an IMAP inbox.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
From: Sean LeBlanc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:12:18 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >Any portability metric you want to fabricate for the langauge C++
> >applies to the language Java. That C++ lacks an application framework
> >and runtime environment specification makes C++ a non-competitive
> >alternative to Java. Even MS recognizes their C# langauge is not a
> >competitor to Java -- but not you.
>
> You may have more information than I on C sharp. The best I can tell is that
> it is designed to use SOAP and pass XML between classes. I speculate that
> it is Borland's JBuilder technology. That would mean that a Java programmer
> could pick up C sharp quickly. But, basically the whole Microsoft.Net appears
> to be a response to Java application servers and would therefore compete
> with pure Java. Of course Microsoft can say anything it wants. The whole
> C# Microsoft.Net is 18 months out. It is vapor.
It's worse than vapor, it's MickeySoft's tried and true strategy: announce something,
get everyone all excited about it, and make 'em wait (and wait, and wait) while
they do nothing with currently AVAILABLE, SUPERIOR technology -- think OS/2 vs.
Windoze 95...it's exactly what M$ did there, too.
Everyone could have switched to OS/2 and
used it, but instead took it up the chute while struggling with Win3x, and waited until
95 came out (even though NT was better, M$ didn't push it too hard at this stage
in the game).
Think back ---
Whatever happened to Hydra?
Whatever happened to other Zero Administration Kit?
Or were they just announced to tone down the network computer hype from Oracle
and the like?
Me, I'm a Sun Certified Java Programmer, and I see beyond the Sun hype anyway - but
more importantly, I see beyond M$'s hype. They might flounder around and make
the most noise, but their products are the most inferior, and I refuse to adopt
the VB/COM/DCOM/ASP/C# or whatever spew they are currently pushing. Sun might not
be totally open with the Java "standard" right now, but at least they have a
somewhat open process to making changes. Not exactly ECMA/ANSI/ISO or whatever,
but at least they have a more proven track record of being open. Whenever M$
makes a deal with someone, someone usually gets screwed, and it ain't M$. Don't
get me wrong, I know that's just business. But as a customer, I am not going to
be the one who pays for vendor lock-in.
At least with Java, you have over 40 different vendors building application
servers for it (read: competition). Can you really say that with ASP/DCOM/MTS?
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 17:17:55 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3Rr85.18816$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Rich C writes:
>
> >> Cihl writes:
>
> >>> Could somebody PLEASE tell what the hell this is?
>
> >> It's a digest of the articles posted by Joe Malloy, who claims to post
> >> them for entertainment purposes. Better to have just one response than
> >> several.
>
> > Could you PLEASE not crosspost this crap to our newsgroup, unless it's
> > specifically relevant?
>
> It's not possible to determine which newsgroup you consider to be
> "our" newsgroup. And you'd be better off taking up the matter with
> Joe Malloy, given that I was simply responding to a posting of his
> that appeared in "our" newsgroup. Don't expect him to accept
> responsibility, however.
I thought I would do them all a favor by being deliberately vague.
Besides, you seem to be the only one flapping his keyboard at the moment.
--
Rich C.
"Because light travels faster than sound, many people appear to be
intelligent, until you hear them speak."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not
resond (was Re: Linux is junk))
Date: 4 Jul 2000 16:15:53 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>You are the only one that has hit these problems and they have not been
>>able to be reproduced by anyone.
>
>That doesn't mean they don't exist.
For you.
>Um, well, the X way of copy paste works but CTRL-C CTRL-V doesn't. I fail
>to see why you call this a lie.
And I fail to see why you call it a problem, even if it is
true in some obscure place.
>>"Linux KDE doesn't even have drag to application,
>> sheesh!"
>>
>>This is a lie.
>
>It is? Can I drag a file from kfm to Netscape. Um, by default, it doesn't
>work. Someone pointed that it can be made to work.
Default? What's that? And if you don't like it, why leave it? Why
tell us instead?
>At lot of things seem to be beta on Linux.
Linux? What does anything you've ever posted have to do with Linux?
>smbfs is one, apparently.
>kruiser is another. What the hell is a distro like Mandrake 7.1 doing
>shipping beta code? Probably to make up for the lack of applications on
>Linux, I guess.
What part of the description of Mandrake 7.1 made you think it
had only old well-tested components? The whole point of Mandrake
is to have the latest of everything which may or may not be
a good thing.
>>It seems to me that you are the one getting desparate
>
>I'm not desperate yet. Long way from it.
Then why are you posting personal problems to an advocacy group?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which Linux should I try?
Date: 4 Jul 2000 20:42:23 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (cpliu) wrote:
>With all the hype about Linux, I'd like to give it a try. There are so
>many vendors on Linux, red hat, mandrake, caldera, TurboLinux, etc. Which
>one should I try? Are there any major differences? interface? How about
>compatibility between different venders?
>
>This must be a FAQ. Please give me a pointer or two before I get started.
You may want to read the Distribution-HOWTO at:
http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Distribution-HOWTO.html
Keep in mind that, even though the modification date is 8 June 2000, there
is nonetheless some outdated information in this document. Also, it is not
a complete list of distributions. Nonetheless, it may give you an idea of
the goals of each distribution, and web sites to find more information.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:22:40 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Every major version of Unix now has a journaled filesystem available.
>
>It can't guarantee that you will have everything written to disk up
>to the very last second...but it WILL guarantee that filesystem
>corruption from crashes are now a thing of the past.
So things have changed.
>Conversely, the damn LoseDOS98 box *insists* on trashing at least one
>filesystem every month or so....
I've never seen Windows trash a filesystem. Is this FUD I wonder?
Pete
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 17:28:41 -0400
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Cihl wrote:
>
> > Could somebody PLEASE tell what the hell this is?
> >
> > --
> > ¨I live!¨
> > ¨I hunger!¨
> > ¨Run, coward!¨
> > -- The Sinistar
>
> It is my belief, that aliens from other planets have landed.
> And they have assimilated into the human races fabric.
>
[not crossposted]
Yes. Aliens from a parallel world that didn't have a Department of Justice.
Aliens whose version of Microsoft ultimately took over their world, and
reduced them to the fate of that culture from Star Trek (I forget the name)
who salvaged, bought, or stole their technology from other races, but
couldn't maintain it when it broke. (We're MCSEs; we're SMART!) They finally
made it here, and took up the guise of Microsoft trolls to bore us to death
and throw us off our guard, then abduct us and force us into slavery to
service their failing computer technology.
--
Rich C.
"Because light travels faster than sound, many people appear to be
intelligent, until you hear them speak."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:38:10 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Then I guess you shouldn't mention my name in honor then.
I didn't. Your incredible imagination is playing tricks.
>Yes it is. I'm conversing with a 13 year old again.
Uhuh. So you can't deal with reality, eh, Charlie. You have to invent an
excuse. "This guy doesn't agree with, therefore he must be a thirteen year
old". Oh yeah, that explains everything.
>I've been on COLA for 6 years.
And you've never seen anyone refer to Mandrake 7.1 or SuSE? Oh dear!
>Ohhh, you've bitched about more than that Pete.
>You've made statements about Windows 95, Windows 3.11, Dos even.
>You've said NT wasn't as good as 2000.
I've never mentioned Windows 3.11.
I've rarely mentioned DOS.
>What haven't you hit?
What are you hitting right now Charlie?
>If you pay for something, then you better get it.
If you get something for nothing, then if it works at all, it's a bonus.
But don't expect much.
>It's not propaganda. How does one get from working for Digital
>and then becomming a lowly .dll driver writer for Windows?
I wrote DLL's at Digital.
>This is propaganda.
Keep on truckin' Charlie...
>It's kind of like President Bush taking a job shoveling shit at some
>kiddie pet farm.
You are really this desperate?
>It shares nothing in common with NT. OF course you know this being
>a Windows programmer. You have the lastest API kit from them don't you?
Well, it has the WIN32 API. It shares that in common with NT. It has SYS
style device drivers, and the new WDM device drivers, some of it is NT
technology.
>No my clever 13 year old .dll driver writer from DEC.
>It's not.
You are incorrect.
>It's building from the past. They don't just THROW the past away and
>start from the ground floor up.
Sometimes a complete rewrite is a good idea.
>Just look at the API calls. The comments in your API development kid.
>You know, that thing you buy with 13 CD's in it Pete!
Funny how 100% of the API calls in NT are still there in Windows 2000.
>The thing every .dll driver writer from DEC has with him at all time's.
>Like the rifle is to the soldier, the API kit is to the .dll writer from
>DEC!
>
>Notice all the API changes!
Oh yes there are new API's but the old ones are still there.
>And if that's all your aware of Pete then your career must have been
>only a year or so.
Twelve years actually. But, then, reality doesn't seem to be a strong suit
of yours, does it Charlie. Your note is getting really rather desperate
indeed.
>I suppose you've never heard of the secret API's which work faster
>than the ones they advertize in our API kit.
Of course I have!
>No. You have to give them credit for piling all those gullible people
>onto their platform.
Well, you know, they actually gave us the customer something we wanted.
>More people have heard of Microsoft and Windows then they have of
>Hitler these days.
Comparing Microsoft to Hitler is really stretching it a bit Charlie.
>The billions in sales do account for something? Don't they?
Yep.
>What of committement toward the customer? They've never had that.
Oh its there. It's kinda hard to find it sometimes, but its there.
>Well,
>How do you expect me to argue with you my servant when even you admit
>the internet thing with Microsoft is shit. Geeze.
"my servant". What are you smoking Charlie?
>Then why are you writing me my servant.
>It is not dusk yet.
It's dark here in the UK, Charlie.
Did you forget that England is at least five hours ahead than the USA? I'm
assuming you're American.
Pete
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: 4 Jul 2000 21:49:27 GMT
Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Customer lock-in is what IBM is all about. That's why their
>> mainframe systems are the ONLY ones in the world using EBCDIC
>> rather than ASCII...
>>
>
> That's why (well, one reason) I'm moving from VM/CMS to Linux for S/390 - no
> more EBCDIC.
How can you move from VM on an S/390 to linux on an S/390 and lose EBCDIC?
I dont see much of a point of running linux on pure S/390 hardware with
no intermediary management system (VM)...Unless its one of those new little
dual G6s. Does that even work?
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: 4 Jul 2000 21:50:29 GMT
Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <8jt6lq$e9b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> there is virtually no difference in "stability",
>>> "process management" and "memory management" between them.
>>> In fact I had to look to see what I was using.
>>>
>>
>>Are you insane? :)
>>
>>Maybe im just throwing alot more at my machines, but its quite plain to me
>>exactly what im running without ever looking.
>
> Yes, I always find freebsd to be different enough from my
> old sysv experience to be annoyingly confusing.
>
> Do you happen to have any experience with mysql under freebsd?
> I sort-of inherited a box running apache and mod_perl with
> a mysql backend under freebsd and periodically it locked up
> with mysql never finishing it's queries even though normally
> they complete very quickly. Also top always shows mysqld
> consuming some CPU time even if it isn't doing much. I moved
> the myqsl to a Linux box and everything was fine with no
> other changes (start-up options are the same in both cases).
> I tried building exactly the same version of mysql on the
> freebsd box and putting it back, but still had the same
> problem. Any ideas?
>
Were the versions of everything identical between boxes?
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98)
Date: 4 Jul 2000 21:11:31 GMT
Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Now, people hope that by bringing up the word Communist in connection
>with Linux it will remind people of all the fear the US citizenry went
>through during the cold war, and the missile crisis and all of that,
>rather than try to actually look at Linux as a technical work. Perfect
>FUD tactics, cloud the real issue with fears (which were themselves
>based on clouded issues of thier day) and uncertainties about something
>completely unrelated.
Those who use "Communist" as a pejorative really mean "Stalinist."
Stalinism is a system in which a single entity controls all industry, and
you get to work and you get to eat only if it's OK by that single entity.
A monopoly.
Now, between Linus and Bill, who's the Stalinist?
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Another CommyLie-nux Commy expoased! (was: Re: Richard Stallman's
Politics (was: Linux is awesome!)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:24:41 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Tim Palmer wrote:
>
>> On 03 Jul 2000 12:45:45 +0100, Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >
>> > >> The free market provides freedom to almost no one.
>> >
>> > Tim> It pervides more freedome than China, you LIE-nux COMMY
>> > Tim>
>BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> > Well thank you for that thoughtful provocative addition
>> >to the conversation. "Commy" is probably fairly accurate, but
>> >"bastard" is wrong at least according to my parents.
>> >
>> > Phil
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> All commy's are bastards because they want to take over the werld
>
>> and rual us all with an iren fist.
>
> Tim?
>
> Obviously your not working for Microsoft or Bill would have fired you by now.
> But you are deswading the Microsoft paid Wintrolls from doing their job
> here and now. And if they are not allowed to represent Bill Gates as he
> paid for them, then Bill's going to get mad.
>
> Then the next thing you know is a couple of guys will show up at your
> door, with blue&white sheets on their heads. And they're going to burn
> a copy of Windows 95 on your front lawn Tim.
>
> So Tim,
> You be a big boy now and let use Linux advocates do battle with
> the large farce known as Microsoft.
>
> You all be good no you hear.
DIs to enform yall that reeding thes posds induece speling problams.
Reid at yer on risk......youve bin warnt!!!!!!
--
Stefaan
--
Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules:
The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of
the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent.
------------------------------
From: Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux beats Win2k yet again!
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:54:29 +0200
Hi folks,
just felt like sharing this one. According to
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2000q2
Linux leads the "fastest Web Server" list by far. A quad-CPU Dell server
with 8 GB RAM running Linux and the TUX threaded web server 1.0 is more
than 2.5 times faster than Win2k running Microshaft IIS on the same
hardware (4200 vs. 1598)! The second fastest server is an IBM RS/6000
7026-M80 with 8 processors, 24 GB of RAM running the Zeus webserver
3.3.5
Unfortunately no results with the Apache web server on the Dell are
available.
Anyhow, I think it shows clearly the potential of our favourite OS.
Cheers
Jens
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Alexey Zolotukhin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Alexey Zolotukhin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 00:12:16 +0200
>
> >Downloading files with my Linux box
> >is about 66% faster.
>
> PPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT. What a nice, rownd number. How long it took
you to make it up?
>
that's actually not far from the truth.. I get an average of 2-3 kbps with
my ISDN
card when I work in windows98, and in linux I get an average of 6-7 kbps
with the same ISDN card... (in both cases I only use one isdn line)
- alex
------------------------------
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