Linux-Advocacy Digest #469, Volume #27 Wed, 5 Jul 00 05:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Truckasaurus)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Where did all my windows go? (abraxas)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (abraxas)
Re: Which Linux should I try? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:34:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:07:08 -0400, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Jeff Szarka wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:32:52 GMT, Michael Marion
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >You know how the winvocates have been touting the livewire
drivers for
> >> >w2k lately? Well it turns out that if I install the
new "livewire"
> >> >drivers for my sblive in w2k I get my first taste of the w2k
protection
> >> >program (the one that's supposed to save us from "dll hell"). It
gives
> >> >you the option of replacing the system files that changed with the
> >> >proper ones, or allowing them to be replaced.. which equates to:
you can
> >> >have system stability but not full functionality of your SBLive,
or full
> >> >SBLive drivers but not the stability you're used to. If I do let
it
> >> >install livewire and replace those files.. I get many other odd
things.
> >> >If I install the drivers for my Hollywood Plus DVD card after
installing
> >> >livewire, the machine BSOD's with a short message, but proceeds to
> >> >reboot before I can read it. Yipee!
> >>
> >> Didn't happen when I tried it.
> >
> >Of course not. Windows is very inconsistent.
> >
>
> Or more likely your making it up. A Lino-nut would never pay for W2K,
or anny other software
> for that mater.
Yipee! I'm not a Lino-nut!
And please leave my mater out of this conversation!
--
"It's the best $50 bucks I ever spent. I would have paid five
times that for what your 'New You' packet allowed me to do!!!"
-- K. Waterbury, CA
Martin A. Boegelund.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:45:20 GMT
Chris Pott writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not falling into another tholenesque spiral this week,
>>>>>>>>>>>> What alleged "tholenesque spiral"?
>>>>>>>>>>> The tholenesque spiral in which we find ourselves at this very
>>>>>>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; that would be a "tinmanesque" spiral, given that you
>>>>>>>>>> started it.
>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant, given that the characteristics of said spiral are not
>>>>>>>>> dependent on whom initiated it.
>>>>>>>> Illogical, given that the said spiral was given a name.
>>>>>>> Incorrect,
>>>>>> Balderdash.
>>>>> I see that lacking a logical response,
>>>> Did you bother to read my response, Chris?
>>> Yes.
>> Then how did you manage to miss my logical response?
> Because I don't see things that aren't there.
Irrelevant, given that my logical response was there to see, Chris.
> Seeing things that aren't there again, Dave?
Obviously not, Chris.
>>>>> you're resorting to Tholenesque context butchering again.
>>>> What alleged "context butchering", Chris?
>>> See above.
>> The above does not contain any "context butchering" on my part, Chris.
> Open your eyes, Dave.
They already are open, Chris.
>>>>> How typical.
>>>> Typical
>>> What's "typical" about it, Dave?
>> "See above."
> Illogical.
That was a quotation of you, Chris. Interesting how you view it now.
>>>> pontification on your part.
>>> What alleged "pontification", Dave?
>> CP] How typical.
> What alleged "]", Dave?
The one I wrote, Chris.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: 5 Jul 2000 07:46:01 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <8jteos$gn1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) wrote:
>> Yeah? Whats the chattr flag to set 0 bit delete?
>
> How the hell should I know? You seriously expect someone to retain
> everything they read from a book?
>
Of course not. But if you had even a little bit of will to actually
try to make the operating system in question work, you would have
found the answer to my question.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:39:46 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, ignoring most of the drivel in your post Charlie, how is it that
everything I've tried on Windows 2000 still works. If WIN32 was
completely rewritten from scratch, why does everything still work?
Why does a device driver I've created work on Windows 98 SE, Windows Me
and Windows 2000? This is a WDM driver BTW. If they had rewritten
Windows 2000, I would expect Device Drivers to be the first thing to
break.
Have you got any statement from Microsoft where they say Windows 2000 is
a complete rewrite of Windows NT? Unlikely since when you boot Windows
2000 it states quite clearly "Based on Windows NT technology".
> Okay. So you have mentioned 95, and NT then.
> Can't remember talking about 98 SE then? Or perhaps
> you don't want to reference it because I didn't.
>
> That's extremely convinent.
Yes I have talked about Windows 98 SE, but you didn't mention that in
your post.
> I'm hitting on the fact that your totally full of bullshit.
You're hitting on something alright.
> Do you really feel all the people on COLA are brainless assholes?
No I don't believe that. Please stop putting words into my mouth.
> That's why most of the things NT used to do for us don't work
> under 2000. Simple things like com port support.
Again not true. "most things" do still work on Windows 2000.
> Part of the reason many calls wouldn't work anymore Pete was
> due to their changing the programming interfaces.
See above.
> Others on newer technology didn't work as their OS wasn't debugged
> thoroughly.
That's a different story. WDM works just fine; WDM is new technology.
> Again, do you feel we are all brainless assholes here on COLA?
Again, I don't believe that. Is that something you believe?
> > >More people have heard of Microsoft and Windows then they have of
> > >Hitler these days.
> >
> > Comparing Microsoft to Hitler is really stretching it a bit Charlie.
>
> I found it very entertaining that you would make the physical
connection
> with Hitler and Microsoft Pete. I merely said more people have heard
> of Microsoft than Hitler. Didn't say a damn thing about Microsoft
> being Hitler....
>
> You did.
True because you inferred it in your post. You mentioned "hitler" in the
same breath as "Microsoft".
> But this seems to be your chief complaint about Linux isn't it?
>
> Not being able to read manuals and the such.
Which one: lack of support or my alleged inability to read manuals and
such?
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:48:09 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> But some times an app dying does cause a BSOD in W2K. The example
> would be this URL I sent you concerning apps that did not close file
> handles. You know, the one where MS said it was the fault of the app,
> not the OS.
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q195/8/57.ASP
Alright, I concede. "Most" apps don't cause a BSOD on Windows 2000.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:52:08 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In other words, you have absolutely no experience with current day
> Unix, and definitely no previous experience with current day Unix
> desktops. You didn't even know all flavors of UNIX today have
> journalled filesystems.
Like that is relevant to the UNIX desktop.
> But too long ago....and not comparable experience present day UNIX
desktops,
> which is what you are comparing.
It wasn't that long ago. Unless of course UNIX has radically altered
over such a short time.
> You lack sufficient experience to make such evaluations. Period.
You lack sufficient knowlegde to make this evaluation. Period.
> You are the one saying "Linux lags behind Windows". How is anyone
> supposed to know what you mean by "windows". And how is someone
> supposed to know by "Linux" you mean Unix desktops??
I mean Linux not UNIX. I said Linux, did I not? I am evaluating Linux,
not other UNIX's. I stand by what I say: "Linux lags behind Windows".
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: 5 Jul 2000 08:03:54 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Have you got any statement from Microsoft where they say Windows 2000 is
> a complete rewrite of Windows NT? Unlikely since when you boot Windows
> 2000 it states quite clearly "Based on Windows NT technology".
>
Actually, it says "based on NT technology"...or...
Based on New Technology technology.
This from a company who brought us Terminal Server Client.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which Linux should I try?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:33:56 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (cpliu) wrote:
> With all the hype about Linux, I'd like to give it a try.
Welcome to the club.
> There are so many vendors on Linux, red hat,
> mandrake, caldera, TurboLinux, etc.
> Which one should I try?
There are several factors in choosing the best choice.
More important, there are some things that you can do
to make the whole thing easier.
First, even if you get a distribution that has it's own version
of Partition Magic, get Partition Magic it's worth the extra
few bucks.
The Mandrake release is intended to be one of the easier versions
to install and use. It's great as a first crack. Since it also
uses the Red Hat distribution as a baseline, adding a preconfigured
menu of the most popular applications to make ease of use possible.
The SuSE edition is sort of the "Luxury Edition" Much like a
Mercedes Benz, SuSE pulls out all the stops. The full
distribution is nearly 3 gigabytes (compressed) of pretty
much everything, including the kitchen sink. You can install less,
but you get a pretty powerful configuration no matter how
much or how little you install. If you want everything,
SuSE reccomends at LEAST 6 gigabytes of for a FULL installation,
which includes some pretty extensive commercial applications. It
also include multiple concurrent languages (if you want them).
The main thing is to chose hardware that is compatible with Linux.
Fore example, you want to run a "Real Modem" with a hardware UART
interface. For PCs, this usually means an ISA modem, and for PCMCIA
this usually means "NT Compatible". Many modem manufacturers are
now putting a Linux compatible indicator somewhere on the box.
For video, avoid AGP and "integrated" video cards. Many of these
tend to contend for memory. I've had very good experience with the
S3, S3-Virge, and I128 chips. Generally, there are some cards that
Linux supports very well, but anything that goes back to the SVGA
or Paradise drivers tends to run more slowly compared to the smart
chips. For 16 bit graphics, 2 meg memory buffer is minimum.
I've seen people get very good results with Dell desktop machines,
IBM's I1400 series thinkpad machines run nicely - and the modem works
with the Lucent winmodem drivers.
As for network cards, Linksys, 3com, and any NE2000 compatible card
generally work pretty well. Again, most of the network card makers
are beginning to list Linux compatibility on the box.
Look through the press releases to see which computor makers have
had which machines certified to be Linux compatible.
Machines to avoid, machines that use the cardbus instead of PCMCIA,
use Video chips not listed in the Linux compatibility information
(look these up on the web).
Ironically, older machines generally tend to configure themselves
pretty easily. In fact, I've had remarkably good luck with VLB
486 machines.
Your RAM and hard drive requirements vary with each distribution.
For a full blown "pull all stops" solution, you need about 64 meg,
6 gig of hard drive, and install everything in the SuSE release
(for your first language).
I'd reccommend a minimum of a 486/DX 100, and anything better than
a Pentium 90 should perform quite well. The best performance gain
comes from using 7200 RPM drives with 9 ms access times or less.
SCSI drives give Linux some awsome performance, but for a novice,
it's probably a good idea to start with IDE drives.
If you want sound, choose a simple sound card. The generic
soundblaster (and equivelants) are cheap and easy. There are
about 30 chips listed. I found that the Thinkpad works good
with the Crystal audio driver.
> Are there any major differences?
Yes. Many distributions are designed for veterans who need to squeeze
the maximum possible performance out of the machine. For example,
by choosing OpenLook Window manager (OLVWM) and 256 color, the video
needs less RAM, the display speeds increase, and the entire environment
runs faster. Tom's Window Manager (TWVM) can run even faster using
either monochrome, 16 color, or 256 color graphics. If you try and view
gifs however, the colors can get quite psychedelic (since the
application will ask the window manager to map all 256 colors to those
specified by the application. When the window blurs (looses focus)
your normal colors usually come back.
Turbo Linux has special proprietary clustering software. This was added
as a module but provides the capability to farm threads across loosely
coupled (network) systems. While Microsoft brags about SMP, UNIX and
Linux have long since gone to large scale distributed processing of
1000 processors or more.
The key is that most of the software can be installed on any
release. The Red Hat package manager is included with most
of the other distributions, and the KDE package includes the
RPM package.
> interfaces?
Most of the distributors list their interface compatibilities on
their web site. Typically the same modules are available across
all distributions. Red Hat has purchased some binary drivers for
monitored (non free) distribution, but you generally want to avoid
these devices for first-time installations anyway.
Red Hat is focused primarily on the Server market. They have basic
versions with mostly freeware and just a few basics, but they also
have an excellent e-commerce package as well.
> How about compatibility between different venders?
Compatibility is normally a function of the Linux kernel, and the
library versions used. For the most part, versions are backward
compatible, which means that older applications can run on older
versions.
> This must be a FAQ. Please give me a pointer or two
> before I get started.
It is FAQ, but the FAQ is terribly out of date. Getting
the most recent information usually involves searching
the usenet archives - especially comp.os.linux.setup and
comp.os.linux.advocacy.
> Thanks,
>
> CPLIU
>
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 90 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 05:07:50 -0400
Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>
> In article <QP675.278$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Shock Boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Um, if you bothered to read my post, you'ld have seen that I installed NT4.0 in a
>dual boot system which came preloaded with
> >Win95OSR2.1, which was then upgraded toWin98.
> >
> >And only a moron thinks that reformatting and reinstall of the OS
> > is necessary to go from Fat32 to Fat16. You can convert a Fat32
> >formatting to Fat16 without doing that. It was very straightforward,
> > intuitive and easy to accomplish. Especially since I had very
Whenever a Microsoft shill uses the word "Intuitive".. what he
REALLY means is "I hope you don't ask, because I can't explain it"
> >little experience on the PC side, having been almost exclusively
> > Mac prior to getting a PC.
>
> Do you do the conversion with win95 or NT? It wasn't intuitive
> enough for me to find the program that does it.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 05:09:13 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On 1 Jul 2000 12:47:14 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <QP675.278$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >Shock Boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>Um, if you bothered to read my post, you'ld have seen that I installed NT4.0 in a
>dual boot system which came preloaded with
> >>Win95OSR2.1, which was then upgraded toWin98.
> >>
> >>And only a moron thinks that reformatting and reinstall of the OS is necessary to
>go from Fat32 to Fat16. You can convert a Fat32
> >>formatting to Fat16 without doing that. It was very straightforward, intuitive and
>easy to accomplish. Especially since I had very
> >>little experience on the PC side, having been almost exclusively Mac prior to
>getting a PC.
> >
> >Do you do the conversion with win95 or NT? It wasn't intuitive
> >enough for me to find the program that does it.
>
> Partition Magic can do it - from 32 to 16. Built-in OS tools in 98
Since when did Partition Magic become a part of the basic support
software included by Microsloth????
The fact is, Microsoft doesn't even support their own shit properly.
[And *smelly* shit, it is]
> handle the move from 16 to 32, either at OS install time or at the
> time of the user's choosing via the accessories menu.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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