Linux-Advocacy Digest #524, Volume #27 Fri, 7 Jul 00 20:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Running Linsux on a Compaq? Good luck!!! (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux, easy to use? ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: An e-mail client with Outlook-like functionality ("Adam Warner")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (void)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux lags behind Windows (Matthias Warkus)
Re: NEW! Microsoft NetSpeed Tool for Linux V2 (CyberSurfer)
Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK
Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Re: NEW! Microsoft NetSpeed Tool for Linux V2 (sauce)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Running Linsux on a Compaq? Good luck!!!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:51:36 -0400
JoeX1029 wrote:
>
> OK they have turned out some decent stuff if you don't want to do alot of
> upgrading. I tried to add a second hd, either i must remove the CD or 3.5"
> drive. None of the cables are long enough, not enough room in the case etc.
Get SCSI. No problem with cable length, and you'll probably run out of
space in your case before you use up the SCSI's disk capacity.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:53:27 -0600
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Being a bit of difficult package to install is hardly a virtue.
As my Dad once said: "If you don't know how to put the darn thing
together . . . why did you buy the kit!?"
> My point is that I entered something like the following:
>
> Monitor "Bloggs"
>
> What I did not know was the script gets confused if you enter a " in the
> parameters - how was I supposed to know that? It did not come back with
>
> " is an illegal character
>
> it went ahead a generated a script that fails.
>
> This has nothing to do with knowing how to type.
Correct. It has everything to do with the all-to-common mistake of
blaming the package, instead of yourself.
As my instructor once said: "Don't blame the mountain 'cause you don't
know how to climb."
Slackware is like a high performance sports car that comes with a manual
transmission. If you buy such a car without knowing how to drive a
stick, whose fault is that? Yours, or the cars?
> I am not "following the Apple/MS" party line - I happen to _like_ GUI's. I
> have become a GUI programmer.
Me too. But a good GUI programmer is aware of the limitations of the
paradigm. There are things you should not put a GUI on.
> >So I prefer Slackware. It suits my world view.
>
> It's a view that is perhaps based in the past.
Nope. That world view will never be obsolete. Knowledgable, trained
experts will always be in demand.
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner?
Date: 7 Jul 2000 22:59:32 GMT
On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:39:23 GMT, Paul E. Larson wrote:
>>>>Because people who CAN spell don't like Microsloth.
>>>>
>>>So using the above line as a test. You must like Microsoft!
>>
>>You've applied the converse, not the above line. Nice try (-;
>>
>Unless you know a corporation with the name Microsloth, it is a misspelling
>even if it is "supposed" to be derogatory.
It's a misspelling, sure. But your logic is still wrong. A=>B isn't the
same as (not A)=>(not B)
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: An e-mail client with Outlook-like functionality
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:59:48 +1200
Hi Everyone and Pim,
> If you can take the risk of having several things you deem important not
> work entirely up to standard, you may take a look at Post Office at
> http://www.tarball.net/postoffice/. I'm a bit reluctant to enter a game of
> self promotion (being its primary author) but I started the project
because
> I found a lot of the current mailers sort of lacking. It can handle any
> number of server accounts (pop3, imap if you're in to pain, usenet and a
> severely braindead undocumented sql-format which will improve at some
point)
> and a number of user identities. It does filtering (but not optimally,
which
> mostly means that *I* can get it to work but it's far from userfriendly).
Thanks for everyones' replies. I hadn't checked out Mozilla and I must admit
that PostOffice also has features I forgot to mention like multiple
identities.
Pim, is there any way to do spell checking on a message before it is sent?
I only need relatively rudimentary filtering but it must be possible to move
messages from discussion lists into separate folders automatically (which it
appears PostOffice can do).
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (void)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: 7 Jul 2000 22:43:28 GMT
On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:40:04 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>void wrote:
>>
>> Tell that to my friend, who bought an iMac and had a hard time getting
>> his SCSI Zip drive to work over USB.
>
>Now, ahy are you blaming Apple for a non-supported peripheral not
>working. How hard was it to connect a USB Zip to the iMac?
Search me. My friend's Mac SE died and he bought the iMac. Is it so
unreasonable for him to expect to use the same peripheral, especially
when said peripheral is newish and uses a common, well-supported interface?
I'm not blaming Apple so much as I'm pointing out that desktop computing
is a sufficiently complex affair that nothing can be expected to "just
work" all the time.
--
Ben
220 go.ahead.make.my.day ESMTP Postfix
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:04:02 -0600
Roger wrote:
>
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 00:18:34 -0400, someone claiming to be Rick wrote:
>
> >Roger wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 17:43:42 -0700, someone claiming to be Peter Ammon
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >An IRQ conflict occurs when the Windows demon-gods arbitrarily decide to
> >> >prevent your various pieces of hardware from working together until you
> >> >prove your devotion. You can prove this by spending several hours in
> >> >the Device Manager changing obscure numbers and rebooting to see if it
> >> >works. Watch out: the demon-gods will throw obstacles in your path.
> >> >Some pieces of hardware can't use certain IRQs. Others require multiple
> >> >IRQs. Some combinations of IRQs won't work. Sometimes the IRQs have to
> >> >be in a certain order. And if, in the end, your tortured sense of the
> >> >rational survives, then all the bounty of Windows shall be yours...until
> >> >you want to install something else.
>
> >> Which is the fault of Windows .. why, exactly?
>
> >Um, becasue its designed that way?
>
> Um, tell me, exactly where in the software known as Windows are IRQ's
> defined?
>
> hint: it's a hardware thing, not a software thing...
Wrong. Plug-And-Pray . . . oops, err, that's Plug-and . . . no,
nevermind, I got it right the first time.
IRQ's are indeed hardware. Useless hardware, 'lessen you attach some
software to 'em.
Yeesh! Kids these days . . .
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:19:55 +0100
>I happen to be an end-user who happens to think Linux is great and has
>many more features for the end-user then Windows. Perhaps, you can
>point out the end-user features available on Windows not available on
>Linux?
The ability to regurlarly crash with a pretty blue screen which keeps me
well employed having to continually have to repeat the hours of lost work
this causes.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:16:57 GMT
A better title would have been "How To Turn Your iMac Into A Rock"
DP
On 7 Jul 2000 22:35:38 GMT, John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>For another take, "Misadventures of a Linux Newbie from the Mac World":
>
> http://www.linuxnewbie.org/articles/macnewbie.html
>John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux lags behind Windows
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:55:09 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:30:42 -0400...
...and Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Your post does not even address the basic issue: Linux lags behind
> > Windows. You make gross assumptions and grandiose statements, but no
> > substance to the point.
> >
> > I think your post is what is truly pathetic.
> >
>
> Wrong. Windows lags behind Linux. Windows has no support for any machine
> architecture other than x86.
Isn't Windows NT still supposed to support the Alpha or has that been
dropped like the MIPS and PPC support?
mawa
--
Sircar's Corollary to Godwin's Law: If the USENET discussion touches
on homosexuality or Heinlein, Nazis or Hitler are mentioned within
three days.
------------------------------
From: CyberSurfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,be.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux.best,alt.os.linux.dailup,aus.computers.linux
Subject: Re: NEW! Microsoft NetSpeed Tool for Linux V2
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 01:20:20 +0200
We are doing business now...lets build an interface for this Netspeed
program!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> //- End program -//
>
> --
> ¨I live!¨
> ¨I hunger!¨
> ¨Run, coward!¨
> -- The Sinistar
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
CyberSurfer / Singularity
In a dark room full of windows the Tux said: "E=mc²", and there was light
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:23:16 GMT
On 7 Jul 2000 22:35:38 GMT, John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>: Let me tell you, this guy Lewis has written a fantastic article that really
>: really hits the mark. He tells it like it is and manages to say it concisely
>: and without insulting anyone. He says all the things I wish I could say in a
>: newsgroup posting without being interrupted by zealots and fanatics with
>: their spue. I loved reading this and I hope you do too:
>
>: http://www.macopinion.com/columns/macskeptic/00/07/07/index.html
>
>This article contains some truth, and IMO misses some. Anybody with time
>on Mac and Linux might try to balance the strengths of each. The balance
>varies with the values of the observer.
>
>For another take, "Misadventures of a Linux Newbie from the Mac World":
>
> http://www.linuxnewbie.org/articles/macnewbie.html
...which speaks of mounting filesystems manually with all the
gory command line options...
You can't even do that as a normal user. Nevermind the fact that
even Slackware sets you up with pre-canned mount configurations
for removable devices.
It's not a well informed piece.
BTW, VPC with Redhat bundled is going for $50 after rebate.
--
It only takes a little bit of bad luck to negate the whole benefit
of "runs everything" for a particualar end user.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: A MacOpinion of Open Source that REALLY HITS THE MARK
Date: 7 Jul 2000 23:24:58 GMT
On 7 Jul 2000 16:50:31 -0500, Drestin Black wrote:
He makes some good points, for example about the bazaar having a
"priesthood", and about small groups being productive.
He's kind of wrong when he claims that Open Source projects are not
"customer oriented". Some, like KDE for example, certainly are.
He's also dead wrong about there being "no bug count". Debian have a bug
count, and major projects such as the kernel, kde, and mozilla keep their
own bug tallies.
I also disagree that making life hard for developers is a good idea. A lot
of Microsoft's success was due to the fact that they worked hard to win
over developers. Likewise, Linux is making ground in the UNIX world, because
all the UNIX geeks in college use Linux at home, and they'll inevitably
drag it into the workplace with them as soon as they think they can get
away with it.
The "elitism" of any type of programmer or user is a
danger. The non-elitism of Windows programmers has helped attract developers
to that platform. Linux has succesfully won a lot of the UNIX market,
largely because it is more grass roots and less elitist than traditional
UNIX ( unfortunately, some users are somewhat elitist, and these users do
not help )
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:16:27 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Yea and when I played audio CD's using X11Amp
Hmmm . . . I thought X11Amp only played MP3's. When was it extended to
play audio CD's?
> the CD wouldn't eject
> and even after 10 tries if it happened to decide it wanted to eject,
> any subsequent CD I put in the player, audio or data, would fail to
> read.
Interesting. Never seen this myself. What was the cause of all this
weirdness?
> Not to mention all the skips and slowdowns just playing an audio CD
> and trying to do something else.
What else?
> This is on a 450 with 256mb, current hardware and Mandrake 7.0
Ah. I see. Me, I do fine playing audio CD's on any class of machine,
since neither the OS or the computer (except for the power supply, of
course) is in any way involved with playing an audio CD.
And on my superior hardware (Pentium II 400 MHz, 128 MBytes of memory),
I have no problems playing MP3's, either. Perhaps you should upgrade
your hardware to at least match mine?
> No problems under Windows 98SE or 2k.
That's good. Could you come over and fix a Windows 98 box? It crashes
the moment my friend tries to play an MP3. I suspect some kind of
resource conflict on the sound card, but of course, with almost no
diagnostic tools, how is a user to know for sure?
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:19:58 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Madrake has this automount application that is supposed to take care
> of that automatically, when running audio CD's.
You do realize, don't you, that your story is full of inconsistencies?
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:23:18 -0600
void wrote:
>
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2000 20:42:09 GMT, Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Except Macs--where things just work.
>
> Tell that to my friend, who bought an iMac and had a hard time getting
> his SCSI Zip drive to work over USB.
You do realize, don't you, that SCSI and USB are two *ENTIRELY*
different busses!?
I mean, they aren't even the same *CLASS* of bus! SCSI is a *PARALLEL*
bus, while USB is a *SERIAL* bus (hence the name: Universal SERIAL Bus).
> Now, my friend is pretty clueless, but he had someone more knowledgeable
> look at it, and they couldn't get it working either.
How much more "knowledgable" could they be, if they didn't know that
SCSI is not the same as USB?
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:21:38 -0500
Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
> Hyman Rosen escribió:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> > > The LGPL does not have this problem. Nor the one
> > > I mentioned. But it doesn't serve the political
> > > agenda of the FSF - the point of the GPL really *is*
> > > to control and usurp the works of others.
> >
> > Of course this is a lie. The point of the GPL is to encourage
> > the development of free software.
>
> That only makes sense if you accept a priori that what the GPL
> calls free software actually is free software.
>
> According to some opinion's (say, Mr. Dyson's and lately, my own)
> the GPL is not free in several meaningful ways.
>
BTW, you hit the nail on the head regarding 'several meaningful
ways.' Some people have been trying to create a new term or
word-coinage that might both be accurate (to satisfy people like
me), and also 'sound good' to satisfy GPL advocates. I have
no good answer that takes only a few words.
It would be good to come up with a good term though. I would
applaud an accurate terminology that sounds good.
Frankly, I tend to like something like GPL-free (to qualify the
term 'free' -- coining the term), or something else that only
slightly changes the rather cavalier usage of the general term
'free.'
John
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:22:53 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On 07 Jul 2000 17:51:00 -0400, Hyman Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> Hyman Rosen wrote:
> >> > Of course this is a lie. The point of the GPL is to encourage
> >> > the development of free software.
> >> >
> >> That statement isn't consistant with the result, since the GPL
> >> isn't free.
>
> GPL is free for the people it is meant to be free, the masses.
> That is a more important compelling interest than ensuring the
> interests of would be plantation masters or perpetrators of
> Jim Crow.
>
Why do you continue to create analogy that is meaningless in this
situation? Weasling ones way into being able to call GPL free doesn't
really solve the simple problem of the misuage.
John
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:23:39 -0500
Hyman Rosen wrote:
>
> John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Hyman Rosen wrote:
> > > Of course this is a lie. The point of the GPL is to encourage
> > > the development of free software.
> > >
> > That statement isn't consistant with the result, since the GPL
> > isn't free.
>
> Yes it is.
>
No it's not. :-).
> In any case, the GPL certainly encourages the development
> of more GPLed software.
And that is a good, accurate statement.
John
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:25:03 -0500
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> > No they aren't. The GPL seeks to ensure certain end user
> > freedoms in perpetuity. If anyone is lying here it is you.
>
> US XVIIIth century law seeked to ensure the right of the plantation
> owner to
> enslave certain specific humans in perpetuity. Is that free for you?
>
> The GPL seeks to ensure certain rights by denying certain others. That
> is
> not inherently bad or good, but it IS.
>
> This "the GPL is free" "it is not" debate is ludicrous, Noone has a
> freedometer.
>
> Freedom is not a number.
>
I agree... However, when freeness is explicitly removed, that is
quite clear. GPL specifies ways in which the freeness is denied.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:26:00 GMT
On 7 Jul 2000 22:43:28 GMT, void <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:40:04 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>void wrote:
>>>
>>> Tell that to my friend, who bought an iMac and had a hard time getting
>>> his SCSI Zip drive to work over USB.
>>
>>Now, ahy are you blaming Apple for a non-supported peripheral not
>>working. How hard was it to connect a USB Zip to the iMac?
>
>Search me. My friend's Mac SE died and he bought the iMac. Is it so
>unreasonable for him to expect to use the same peripheral, especially
Yup.
The new mac does not have a SCSI2 port.
SCSI->USB converters are not covered in any of the standardized
devices. Such a box will almost certainly be highly proprietary
and a burden on the hardware vendor in question.
>when said peripheral is newish and uses a common, well-supported interface?
That is not at all established here actually.
An SBLive uses a common, well-supported interface but you don't
expect it to work in a G4 do you?
>
>I'm not blaming Apple so much as I'm pointing out that desktop computing
>is a sufficiently complex affair that nothing can be expected to "just
>work" all the time.
Apple has indeed put it in a position similar to Microsoft now, with USB.
--
It only takes a little bit of bad luck to negate the whole benefit
of "runs everything" for a particualar end user.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Subject: Re: NEW! Microsoft NetSpeed Tool for Linux V2
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,be.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux.best,alt.os.linux.dailup,aus.computers.linux
From: sauce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:27:25 -0400
CyberSurfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We are doing business now...lets build an interface for this Netspeed
> program!
>=20
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>=20
> > //- End program -//
> >
> > --
> > =A8I live!=A8
> > =A8I hunger!=A8
> > =A8Run, coward!=A8
> > -- The Sinistar
>=20
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>=20
> --
>=20
> CyberSurfer / Singularity
> In a dark room full of windows the Tux said: "E=3Dmc=B2", and there was=
light
why is that a good thing? Mickeyshaft is reknowned for making half assed
software for the mac community, why would or should the linux community e=
xpect
any better from those criminals?
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:29:10 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:15:23 -0400, Austin Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On 7 Jul 2000, Steve Mading wrote:
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>: You cannot steal something that has 1000's of copies already on the
> >>: net.
> >> Ahem - Kerberos.
> >
> >Spec problem, not copyright problem. NEXT?
>
> IOW, the specification much like a licence wasn't sufficiently
> structured with abusive Robber Baron's in mind.
>
> That sort of mistake is precisely why the GPL came into existence.
>
The GPL is NO defense against a company like Microsoft, who could
reimplement Linux, with some help from a few UNIX-world OS developers
in a year or so. I remember at AT&T in 1985, we had an internally
developed MKS toolkit clone (pretty much unix source clean) for internal
and perhaps external use. A concerted and motivated development can
produce yet another UNIX reimplementation very quickly.
The hard part isn't in writing the code (if you are adequately funded),
the hard part is in creating the spec, and subsequent support/quality
issues. By using GPLed code, only some of that overhead is helped
with. A large, funded development, with a sales channel doesn't need
the bootstrap of the GPL. The small-time developer really needs
the initial seed software (be it GPL or free.)
John
------------------------------
From: John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:32:20 -0500
Hyman Rosen wrote:
>
> John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Your statement begs the issue of free software. You continue
> > to describe what you think but don't define it. Since software,
> > by default, isn't free, it is your job to prove it.
> >
> > I claim that the lie about being free is only deceptive.
>
> Here is a list of what you are allowed to do with GPLed code.
>
Your list is nice, but the restrictions are adequate to call the
code free.
>
> I claim that this list is expansive enough so that calling
> GPLed code free is justified.
>
Wrong, and simply logically incorrect: You may call the GPL
partially free or free-lite, but not free. If the GPL didnt'
have restrictions in very important areas, then opinion might
be swayed in the other direction.
The GPL just isn't free, and all it takes is a few, significant
exceptions.
You can grunt and grunt, but if it isn't going to come out, then
all you have done is hurt yourself. You are grunting, trying to
prove by showing examples on how it is free -- but the ways that
it isn't free steals the glory.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:33:28 GMT
On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:21:38 -0500, John Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>>
>> Hyman Rosen escribió:
>> >
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>> > > The LGPL does not have this problem. Nor the one
>> > > I mentioned. But it doesn't serve the political
>> > > agenda of the FSF - the point of the GPL really *is*
>> > > to control and usurp the works of others.
>> >
>> > Of course this is a lie. The point of the GPL is to encourage
>> > the development of free software.
>>
>> That only makes sense if you accept a priori that what the GPL
>> calls free software actually is free software.
>>
>> According to some opinion's (say, Mr. Dyson's and lately, my own)
>> the GPL is not free in several meaningful ways.
>>
>BTW, you hit the nail on the head regarding 'several meaningful
>ways.' Some people have been trying to create a new term or
>word-coinage that might both be accurate (to satisfy people like
'free' as in freedom, liberty and equality is a standard
enough usage of that term such that your claims of
demogogery are quite assinine.
[deletia]
--
It only takes a little bit of bad luck to negate the whole benefit
of "runs everything" for a particualar end user.
|||
/ | \
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