Linux-Advocacy Digest #786, Volume #27 Wed, 19 Jul 00 17:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today! ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it (Mig)
Re: version control in Linux (Mig)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Linux & Winmodem (junekis)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:55:31 GMT
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:47:50 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:17:20 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:47:42 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:00:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:45:23 GMT, Paul E. Larson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>In article <8l4e9j$n96$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>>>In article <8l4a58$96j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>>>> "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-- snip --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the only reason people are "forced" (and I use the term very
>>>>>>> loosely) to buy MS software is because everyone else also uses it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Until very recently, your statement was simply untrue. Unless you built
>>>>>>your own machine from parts, or went to the most obscure
>>>>>>hole-in-the-wall mom-n-pop computer shop in the county, there was no way
>>>>>>to not buy Windows bundled with your computer. This is fine for
>>>>>>hard-core geeks, but wrt Joe and Jane Average Consumer, this meant that
>>>>>>there was no choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmmmm.... you are new to this whole computing thing aren't you!
>>>>
>>>> You've got to go back awhile before you start to see
>>>> multiple brands of computers/OS supported by more
>>>> than just the 'hole in the wall' types of stores again.
>>>
>>>Like Compaq, which explicitly supports half a dozen OSs on their
>>>servers? And if I looked, I'm sure I'd find plenty of others, too.
>>
>> That's certainly relevant (NOT) to the common consumer.
>
>Well sure, but neither is Linux. :)
When they don't have to go to the same sorts of places they
would need to go to find a reproduction of some 80 year
old automobile, then it will be relevant in terms of claims
regarding "free markets".
>
>> It's still also a situation where one is forced to resorting
>> to mail order to get any sort of selection.
>
>Hmm...local shops around here put whatever OS you want on it, although
...larger than 100 square foot?
>I agree with you MS has the "easy stores" (BB, CC, CUSA, etc.) sewed
>up pretty tight.
>
>> Whereas the dealers that each sold us both of our cars also show
>> more than one brand of car. Then there's that 'worlds largest
>> Ford dealer' that sold me my last truck and shows 9 brands of product
>> including at least 2 direct competitors/alternative to the product
>> I bought from them.
>
>Do they all run on gasoline?
Actually some run on diesel.
However, that's much like asking if a particular bit of electronics
runs on electicity.
>
>> Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
>
>Like finding a diesel car, an electric car, or a natural gas car,
>outside of California or other special markets, you mean?
That's somewhat similar. However, there at least exists some
non-trivial diversity even amongst cars that run on gas and
diesel. It's not as if you only get to choose between 2 or
3 variants of Lada.
[deletia]
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today!
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:54:23 -0600
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in <8kiii4$1vi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Please read the finding in the DOJ vs Microsoft case.
>
> Oh I know some of the details of that case.
>
> However... people don't buy OS's if they're _that_ bad.
Really? People bought DOS, didn't they?
> Could it be that
> Microsoft actually got some it _right_?
Sure. They copied a lot of stuff. A LOT!
Those things they did not copy correctly, they did not get right! ;->
> I would have preferred if they weren't so aggressive, or so determined to
> make sure they win, but without that, do you really think they were
> creating something so terrible?
Who would know? The vast majority of computer users were computer
illiterate before getting their first box. They have/had no basis for
comparison.
It's the clueful, experienced folk who barfed in their hats.
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:56:46 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Alan Baker in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Sorry, but you have your timeline wrong.
>
>With System 7 you could use other apps that you had running, but the
>Finder was single-threaded and you most certainly could _not_ do
>anything else in it while copying. OS 8 added the multi-threaded Finder
>which not only allowed you to do other things while copying (or emptying
>the trash) but which also enabled you to use all of the GUI:
>specifically the Apple and Application menu to switch or launch other
>programs. Prior to OS 8 the only way to switch to another app once you
>started copying in the Finder you had to click on some part of a window
>belonging to said app.
I didn't have my timeline wrong; I just inverted my recollection, based
on the description that somebody else gave. I haven't used Macs much
since S7, when the Application menu was introduced (ironically), along
with aliases, user configurable icons (I always just used Resedit) and
folder-tree navigation, (and much much more!) I clearly recalled that
"using the computer while copying" was introduced then (I wrote a
chapter on the Finder in a book on System 7, in fact), but I just mixed
up which line of bullshit was which. ;-)
Why did someone say that OS 9 was supposed to have added some such
capability; where they just mixing it up with something actually
introduced in 8?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:02:03 +0200
> Ahhh but there is a problem therein. Until they realized and fixed a
stupid > 49.7 day bug in THEIR uptime tracking software Windows boxes
weren't > counting uptime correctly. Hows Windows going to catch up? How
about if they > reset all these uptimes and start counting over, with W2K
I found one NT box with 211 days at number 124.. it seems the bug is fixed
or do i miss something??
They dont need to...you just need to count from a certain data and
and take a look.. what about since 1'st og July?
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: version control in Linux
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:05:33 +0200
Bob Hauck wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:17:02 GMT, Eager Learner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > How can I do version control in Linux?
>
> Use CVS or RCS.
What ever happened to SCCS?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:59:49 -0400
Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" escribió:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:10:13 GMT, MK
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Socialism in any form ALWAYS results in political and bureaucratic barriers.
> > > >It's only a matter of where in particular they are put. Laissez faire
> > > >does not have this problem -- supply follows the demand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Capitalism has problems of its own. Poverty is one of them.
> >
> > You wanna see poverty, and HUGE disparities between the rich and the
> > poor? Then go to a communist country and look around.
>
> A communist country such as which one? Please notice that I am in no
> way defending communism, I am just curious where such a thing was.
Cuba
Russia (yes, Russia is still communist)
Belorussia
North Korea
Here's how fucked up North Korea is: Vladivostok is a city on the
East (Pacific Coast) of Russia. Typical electrical service lasts
for only 6 hours / day, because of coal shortages. (The Moscow
government owes the miners over 2 YEARS in back wages... less than the
cost of a couple of the T-88 tanks that are rolling off the assembly
line as we speak). The people of Vladivostok are in despair...
the recession in Moscow isn't ANYTHING compared to Vladivostok.
AND THIS IS A *PORT* CITY! Anybody who can find a way out of
Vladivostok is doing so.
Some of the work in Vladivostok is contracted out to North Korea.
So, there are a lot of N.K. workers in and around Vladivostok.
The NK workers have most of their pay CONFISCATED by their NK
supervisors. Nevertheless, the NK workers consider these living
conditions in Vladivostok to be so wonderful that the NK government
has specifically PROHIBITED the NK workers from making any mention,
in their letters home, about how good they have it in Vladivostok,
with all of the food, heating, and electricity shortages.
WHY??? Because compared to North Korea, the basket-case city of
Vladivostok, Russia is paradise! and the NK government doesn't
want the word to get out that living conditions in NK are truly
awful. So awful that the ghettos of Calcutta are pleasant
by comparison (at least they have food, electricity, and wood
to stuff into the stove for cooking).
Travel a few miles to South Korea, and you have a standard of
living only slightly below that of the United States, on par
with most of western Europe.
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina (KDE developer, MFCH)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: junekis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux & Winmodem
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:26:33 -0400
==============93BC22F9A5645A8D041FE6D1
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Here's an interesting twist. I bought a used IBM PC750, which had a Zoltrix
Winmodem in it.
When I got the machine home, and fired it up, Windows 95 started installing
itself, and I realized that the
machine had never been used. Some company had bought a bunch of these things,
stuffed them in a closet,
then clearanced them as "used" on the web, without ever turning most of them
on.
Then I found out why. The Zoltrix driver for the Winmodem didn't work with
win95 (it hangs the OS when dialing out).
Sooo.... I went to the Zoltrix web sight and found... a LINUX driver!
I quickly replaced Windows with my trusty (license free) copy of Rehat 6.2,
installed the driver, and now
I'm surfing the web at 56Kb on a computer that I picked up for $65!
Yehaaa! Thank goodness that I didn't have to actually BUY software from MS,
it would have more than doubled the
cost of my PC!
If I worked in Redmond, I think I would be putting my resume on the street
right now, and find a job with a secure future working on
UNIX.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:44:26 -0400, JEDIDIAH
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:02:42 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>Secretly Cruel wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 01:15:58 -0400, John & Susie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>> People need to be pissed at the cheap bastards that manufacture the
> >>> Windows-only stuff, not pissed at Linux.
>
> >>While I agree with this statement completely, what people "should" do
> >>and what people actually do are usually two completely different
> >>things. People will look at the situation this way.
>
> >>My hardware works under Windows, it doesn't work under Linux. Therefore
> >>there has to be something wrong with Linux.
> >
> > No, that's simply infantile.
>
> So are Typical End Users.
>
> >>machines, they go buy a new piece of hardware without even thinking
> >>about compatibility, and it works under Windows. Then they try loading
> >
> > You simply can't get away with being an ingorant consumer. This
> > is true in general as much as it is true for computing devices.
>
> However, being an informed consumer takes work. Most people will
> follow the Path of Least Resistance, which is to learn nothing at
> all, and then draw all conclusions based on that knowledge.
>
> > Not even the relative ease of a Macintosh will allow you to
> > forego the 'burden' of being an informed consumer. Otherwise
> > you end up with crap and you end up perpetuating crap.
> >
> > This sort of consumerism is simply assinine.
>
> Consumers in general are assinine.
>
> --
> Guns don't kill people, cops do!
--
++ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | sgi ++
++ John Unekis | 11785 Beltsville Dr #1300 ++
++ Customer Education | Beltsville, MD 20705 ++
++ Customer and Prof. Services | tel# 301.572.3141 ++
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>Here's an interesting twist. I bought a used IBM PC750, which had a
Zoltrix Winmodem in it.
<p>When I got the machine home, and fired it up, Windows 95 started installing
itself, and I realized that the
<br>machine had never been used. Some company had bought a bunch of these
things, stuffed them in a closet,
<br>then clearanced them as "used" on the web, without ever turning most
of them on.
<p>Then I found out why. The Zoltrix driver for the Winmodem didn't work
with win95 (it hangs the OS when dialing out).
<p>Sooo.... I went to the Zoltrix web sight and found... a LINUX driver!
<p>I quickly replaced Windows with my trusty (license free) copy of Rehat
6.2, installed the driver, and now
<br>I'm surfing the web at 56Kb on a computer that I picked up for $65!
<p>Yehaaa! Thank goodness that I didn't have to actually BUY software from
MS, it would have more than doubled the
<br>cost of my PC!
<p>If I worked in Redmond, I think I would be putting my resume on the
street right now, and find a job with a secure future working on
<br>UNIX.
<p>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:44:26 -0400, JEDIDIAH
<br><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<br>>On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:02:42 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee
<br>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<br>>>Secretly Cruel wrote:
<br>>>>
<br>>>> On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 01:15:58 -0400, John & Susie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
<p>>>> People need to be pissed at the cheap bastards that manufacture
the
<br>>>> Windows-only stuff, not pissed at Linux.
<p>>>While I agree with this statement completely, what people "should"
do
<br>>>and what people actually do are usually two completely different
<br>>>things. People will look at the situation this way.
<p>>>My hardware works under Windows, it doesn't work under Linux.
Therefore
<br>>>there has to be something wrong with Linux.
<br>>
<br>> No, that's simply infantile.
<p>So are Typical End Users.
<p>>>machines, they go buy a new piece of hardware without even thinking
<br>>>about compatibility, and it works under Windows. Then they
try loading
<br>>
<br>> You simply can't get away with
being an ingorant consumer. This
<br>> is true in general as much as
it is true for computing devices.
<p>However, being an informed consumer takes work. Most people will
<br>follow the Path of Least Resistance, which is to learn nothing at
<br>all, and then draw all conclusions based on that knowledge.
<p>> Not even the relative ease of
a Macintosh will allow you to
<br>> forego the 'burden' of being
an informed consumer. Otherwise
<br>> you end up with crap and you
end up perpetuating crap.
<br>>
<br>> This sort of consumerism is simply
assinine.
<p>Consumers in general are assinine.
<p>--
<br>Guns don't kill people, cops do!</blockquote>
<pre>--
++ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
+sgi
+ ++
++ John
+Unekis
+ | 11785 Beltsville Dr #1300 ++
++ Customer
+Education
+| Beltsville, MD
+20705 ++
++ Customer and Prof. Services | tel#
+301.572.3141
+ ++</pre>
</html>
==============93BC22F9A5645A8D041FE6D1==
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:05:54 -0400
Greg Yantz wrote:
>
> Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" escribió:
>
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:10:13 GMT, MK
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Capitalism has problems of its own. Poverty is one of them.
>
> > > You wanna see poverty, and HUGE disparities between the rich and the
> > > poor? Then go to a communist country and look around.
>
> > A communist country such as which one? Please notice that I am in no
> > way defending communism, I am just curious where such a thing was.
>
> Sure. Think "USSR" and "nomenklatura", the elite that owned it.
> Or at least had the use of all it's more luxurious features, as
> theoretically everyone "owned" it. Heh.
Here's a joke I got from a book of jokes I purchased in
St. Petersburg, Russia:
A worker's delegation from the US is touring russia;
US Delegation leader: Who owns this auto factory?
Guide: Why, the workers, of course.
US delegation leader: And who owns the car parked by the factory
Guide: The plant manager.
At the same time, a Soviet worker's delegation touring the USA:
Soviet delegation leader: Who owns this auto factory?
Guide: That mean old bastard, Henry Ford.
Soveit delegation leader" And who owns all of these cars????
Guide: Why, the workers, of course.
It sums things up very well.
Capitalism is the widespread but uneven distribution of prosperity.
Communism is the near-universal distribution of poverty.
>
> -Greg
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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