Linux-Advocacy Digest #901, Volume #27 Mon, 24 Jul 00 00:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Microsoft's new ".NET" (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Paul E.
Larson)
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. (Jim Richardson)
Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown (Jim Richardson)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Jim Richardson)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (Gary Hallock)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft's new ".NET"
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:25:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Spud in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> >> the worst type of monopoly this country has ever seen? Innovation my
>> >> > ASS!! Whats up with the crappy BIOs/IRQ architecture? You'd think
>
>> >> Uhm, what does Microsoft has to do with BIOS/IRQ architecture?
>> >
>> >Simple logic: "It's bad, therefore it must be Microsoft's fault -
>> >regardless of who actually did it."
>>
>> No, they were a dominant force on the platform in question
>> for the last 20 years...
>
>Excuse? MS didn't design the PC architecture, last I checked. If you're
>going to spew nonsense, at least make it semi-informed nonsense.
I believe he said they were monopolizing for 20 years, not that they
designed the PC architecture. He was rounding off; just because they've
only been maintaining the monopoly for 16 and a half years is no reason
to make up stories.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:29:51 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Gary Hallock in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>You don't have to port a program to another machine architecture to have to
>worry about little/big endian. All you have to do is send data to another
>machine, whether by TCP/IP or file. That's why there are C functions
>(actually macros) called ntohl() and htonl().
Hi, Gary;
I have never heard of a C function described as being "actually a
macro". Could you explain what you mean? It sounds interesting, if
only in terms of clarifying a bit of terminology.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:40:48 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Drestin Black in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Actually - I never ever have need for this function in BASIC which is why i
>was unfamiliar with it so I just jotted out a brute force solution - the
>first thing to pop to mind. I didn't sit and dwell on it or spend more than
>a few seconds to pound out the code. Someone just said "couldn't be done in
>VB" - and I did. That's all.
>
>Your version from the C version is more efficient.
>From what I heard, the version in C worked, and yours didn't.
I would actually like to make a different comment, though. Intruding as
I am (always) in the thread, I happened upon this post and grew quite
agitated by something you did.
If I might point out that your usage of terminology in the first
sentence of your post is problematic. You refer to BASIC, a
scripting-style programming language which proved useful for educational
purposes, and as a simplistic mechanism for providing a programming
language-like facility to end users who do not need to program, but
could benefit from simple application or operating-system level
scripting. In the early years of the PC, BASIC was a very useful, if
not very powerful, tool for non-CS users. It provided a basic template,
if you will, for the WordPerfect macro language, as well as the
subsequent Word Basic, and a wide array of "fourth generation"
languages, including dBase and the like.
You are not dealing with BASIC. Microsoft's "Visual Basic" 'programming
language' has as little to do with BASIC as the WB has to do with Edward
R. Murrow. Please don't use the term BASIC in referring to whatever the
hell you do with Visual Basic. It will only serve to confuse those not
familiar with either, and leads to unfortunate encouragement of
cluelessness.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:44:09 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Gary Hallock in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Drestin Black wrote:
>
>> Actually - I never ever have need for this function in BASIC which is why i
>> was unfamiliar with it so I just jotted out a brute force solution - the
>> first thing to pop to mind. I didn't sit and dwell on it or spend more than
>> a few seconds to pound out the code. Someone just said "couldn't be done in
>> VB" - and I did. That's all.
>>
>> Your version from the C version is more efficient.
>
>So I guess you have never written a program that has to send data over a
>network.
>
>Gary
BTW, Gary. I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that I just 'prematurely
posted' a blatantly wrong message. Perhaps you'll overlook the fact
that I didn't know Mr. Black's code was worthless, knowing that I am not
a programmer. I asked Aaron, in fact, to point out that the code was
flawed before attacking it, or at least that was intended to be the gist
of my post.
I'm sorely interested in some of the other "anti-VB fodder" which I
might collect. Could you perhaps indulge me enough to describe some of
the details from your perspective?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 03:44:43 GMT
In article <pxOe5.184$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Gonzo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bloody Viking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8lfobq$5bc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> Aaron R. Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>
>>
>> : Sound Cards are cheap. The price difference between genuine Sound
>> : Blaster and imitators is less than $10. Save yourself some headaches,
>> : and just get the real thing.
>>
>> Certainly good advice to go with the real thing with sound cards. Even so,
>> they can be a pain, even in Windows to config. Choosing a dinkum Sound
>Blaster
>> helps to reduce problems.
>
>
>A cheap PCI ESS card can be found for as little as $20. Try to find a Sound
>Blaster card for anywhere near that price range if you dare.
>
Pick your Creative Labs sound card type, I prefer the Ensoniq
http://www.axiontech.com/cgi-local/prdtinfo.asp?prdt=soclpcienso
http://www.invado.com/products/components/proddetail.jsp?partNumber=SC001
Paul
--
"Mr. Rusk you not wearing your tie." -- Frenzy 1972
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:11:35 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:28:06 -0400,
Aaron R. Kulkis, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
>
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft;
>> [...]
>> >Gates and his crew are pathalogical criminals, and should be locked
>> >up, hanging by their toenails.
>>
>> You are *not* good for my attitude, Aaron.
>
>Can I interest you in a sniper-grade AR-15....accurate to 1,000 yards...
>
>
1000 yards with a .223? why bother?
Now, a good .308 or maybe a .338, that would make some sense, or
maybe a Barret light Fifty, *sigh*
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:22:47 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 22 Jul 2000 03:44:39 GMT,
Loren Petrich, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
> I wonder if anyone has tried to collect a list of military follies.
>
> Those I can think of offhand are:
>
> The inhabitants of Sybaris, a Greek colony in southern Italy 2600
>or so years ago, had taught their horses to dance to some music. So when
>the people of a neighboring city, Croton, went to war with them, the
>Crotonians played that music and those horses danced. It's not too
>difficult to work out who had won that war -- the Crotonians.
>
> In a battle in the French and Indian war around 1750 in what is
>now the eastern US and Canada, the French and Indians had dressed in
>inconspicuous clothing and hid behind trees, firing when convenient, while
>the British forces had dressed in resplendent red coats and fired in
>formation. Again, it's not too difficult to work out who had won that
>battle -- the French and Indians.
>
> A little over half a century ago, French military strategists had
>thought that they had the ideal protection from a repeat of the "Great
>War" of 1914-18 -- the Maginot Line. However, the Germans simply went
>around it, through Holland and Belgium.
>
In WWII, the USSR trained dogs to carry mines underneath tanks, but they had
no captured German tanks for training so they used Soviet ones, in the one and
only use of the mane carrying dogs in combat,they blew up a dozen or so T-34s...
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:25:21 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:48:14 -0500,
Erik Funkenbusch, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>> :> full remote administration possible, 1970 never implemented
>> :> including O/S install
>>
>> : NT has always had remote administration.
>>
>> Apparently you missed the all-important word "full".
>
>Well, Unix doesn't have full remote administration anyways. There are often
>tasks which need to be carried out on the console, usually in something like
>single-user mode. Also consider a kernel recompile which causes the kernel
>to panic or simply hangs upon reboot. You have to go to the console for
>that.
*BZZT*
Under linux at least, a serial port can be your "console" so you can compile,
boot, tinker and play all you want at the other end of that serial line,
wherever in the world you want that to be.
>
>> :> GUI's available 10 1
>>
>> : X is the GUI, that severely limits the number of non-X interfaces. A
>window
>> : manager is not a GUI.
>>
>> Bull, X is more akin to a set of device drivers than the GUI. It's a
>> device driver for the video, keyboard, and mouse, that works remotely
>> over the net. It doesn't implement jack diddly squat on top of that.
>> Everything above that is done by the window manager and the toolkit
>> libraries chosen by the programmers of the apps.
>
>I liken X to the windows GDI, or the OS/2 GPI. That's not quite correct
>though, since X also includes some things from the windows USER. No, X
>doesn't include your wigits, and it doesn't include your window managers.
>But it does include the basic GUI functionality.
>
>
And don't forget network transparancy.
>
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:52:56 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>You can't even be bothered to test a simple 10-line program, and
>yet, you expect us to believe your other exhortations?
>
>Come now, we're not nearly as stupid as you, punk.
Well, that's true, but he was providing a quick-and-dirty example of a
concept, and his code illustrated the solution. He might be stupid (and
I'm anxious to learn more either way), but he is merely a "punk", at
best, for not actually testing the scratch-code he was using for a
simple example. I'd like to hear a more telling argument confronting
his other exhortations, if you've got one.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:57:24 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>
> I have never heard of a C function described as being "actually a
> macro". Could you explain what you mean? It sounds interesting, if
> only in terms of clarifying a bit of terminology.
>
Some C functions are actually implemented with a C macro. getc() is often done
this way. It is done for performance. In the case of ntohl(), on big-endian
machines such as AIX on RS/6000, ntohl() expands out to a noop:
a = ntohl(b);
generates the following code on AIX:
a = b;
On Linux for S/390 the same noop code is generated since, like RS/6000, S/390
is a big-endian machine.
On Linux on x86, ntohl() will generate inline assembler code if using
optimization. Without optimation, a call to the ntohl() library function is
generated.
Gary
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:07:31 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said The Ghost In The Machine in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>>This is my understanding of Big Endian and Little Endian:
>>
>>"On an Intel computer, the little end is stored first. This means a Hex word
>>like 0x1234 is stored in memory as (0x34 0x12). The little end, or lower
>>end, is stored first. The same is true for a four-byte value; for example,
>>0x12345678 would be stored as (0x78 0x56 0x34 0x12). "Big End In" does this
>>in the reverse fashion, so 0x1234 would be stored as (0x12 0x34) in memory.
>>"
>>
>>So, I took it to mean inputting: 0x12345678 I should output: 0x78563412 -
>>and so on.
>
>You are more or less correct in that understanding. VAXen,
>for example, were also little endian; HPs and Suns, however,
>are big endian. (Gave us fits at my prior employer some years
>back, when we first ported from Apollo, Sun, and HP, all of which
>were big endian, to NT on ix86, which was little endian.)
For those less well endowed programmatically, could I point out, purely
for consistencies sake, that Mr. Black's (if I have the attributes
right) "or lower end", is a minor problem for me, personally? I believe
the better term, by being conventional, which is to say almost universal
throughout the technical sciences, is "least significant digit".
I will leave it for those more classically educated than I to determine
if Mr. Black's presentation indicates he is notably ignorant of the
term, which is quite 'significant', if I might say, to the issue at
hand.
>>
>>So... hows this?
>
>[terrible programming example using BASIC strings snipped]
Please. Visual Basic strings. Could I beg your indulgence in allowing
that BASIC, as contrasted quite definitely to 'Visual Basic', is a
language (I am begging indulgence, please remember) that should not be
confused with Microsoft's pseudo-development environment monstrosity?
Even if the string manipulations would have worked in a classic BASIC
environment, Drestin's use of them for 'endian' manipulations are so
problematic that even a BASIC 'programmer' should not contemplate them.
>Ye gods; strings to do endianity flips? Try this one:
>
> long endianFlip(long inp)
> {union
> {long l;char c[sizeof(long)];} u;int i, j;
> for(i=0, j=sizeof(long)-1; i>j; i++,j--)
> {t = u.c[i]; u.c[i] = u.c[j]; u.c[j] = t;}
>> return u.l;}
Could you check my editing? And is the "(long)-" a 'one', or an 'l'?
Christ, I might as well ask for a programming tutorial, and hope that
someone is willing to explain what "++" means. Would it help if I
mentioned that I can probably figure out "--", if the explanation is
really patient?
>Or, if you prefer, try this one:
>
> #include <limits.h>
> long endianFlip(long inp)
> {long mask = ((1<<CHAR_BIT)-1);long ret = 0; int i;
> for(i=0;i<sizeof(long);i++)
> {ret <<= CHAR_BIT;ret |= (mask & inp);inp >>= CHAR_BIT;}
> return ret;}
>
>(CHAR_BIT is a system-dependent constant that is the number of
>bits in a char. Nowadays it's almost always 8, but using
>Magic Numbers(tm) in one's code is almost always a Bad Thing(tm). :-) )
I don't think you can trademark either of those; they're both in the
Jargon File. Sorry.
But I thought "nowadays", it would be 32 or even 64! What gives?
>I'm not sure which one would be faster or is cleaner, but both would
>beat your string handler.
Trying to figure things out from your examples, it occurs to me that
I've never quite really *grasped* the semicolon, ';' in code. It seems
to be an *ending*, not just a delimiter. An "execute" command, maybe?
I'm interested in hearing what anyone might have to say on the gestalt
of this kind of thing. I've had to work with some C, and a lot of perl
code, but I don't have the benefit of a formal education. I don't even
have (and wouldn't accept, at this point, if offered) Mr. Black's
background in using VB. I truly apologize if my intrusion is a bother,
but I would *like* to be able to cobble together simple programs, and
I'm not sure if the reason I'm not doing so is because of a lack of
benefit (given the MS monopoly, but I do have perl) or a lack of
ability. I'm not at all good with math. Mathematics, actually, isn't
so much a problem as 'arithmetic'. But either way, I hope to be able to
be really *efficient*, which is to say I want to learn the minimal
amount for maximum capabilities, at scripting and maybe simple source
code hacking.
So anyway, is the semicolon a "go", rather than a delimiter? And what
would you suggest would be the easiest way to use a background in BASIC
to attack Linux?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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