Linux-Advocacy Digest #100, Volume #28 Sat, 29 Jul 00 18:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Linus Torvalds on CNN Today (maybe) (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: Does VB and SQL work under linux? ("Colin R. Day")
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive! (Mig)
Re: Gnome or KDE ("D. C. & M. V. Sessions")
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (Chris Wenham)
Re: Gnome or KDE ("D. C. & M. V. Sessions")
Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive! (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive! (Christopher Browne)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Linus Torvalds on CNN Today (maybe)
Date: 29 Jul 2000 21:10:49 GMT
The show "Movers" -- 5:30-6:00PM Pacific time, 8:30-9:00PM
Eastern, tonight -- Sat. 7/29, on CNN. I just caught the
end of the earlier broadcast, and it's scheduled to repeat
at these times.
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does VB and SQL work under linux?
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:13:33 -0400
MH wrote:
>
> (4) The "Value" of VB is what the user & market make of it. 14 million
> people can't *all* be idiots.
>
At the risk of being Godwinized, the number of votes for Adolf Hitler in
the 1932 German presidential election: 13,418,547.
>
> Oh, I forgot, this is COLA, of course they can. Just ask moro, I mean Aaron.
> VB -- It is what it is, what it is, is all that it is. Nobody claims it to
> be a language you would place in a high use enviornment where it will be
> pounded on. Though VB apps do exist that handle this I'm quite sure. There
> is no comparitive RAD in Linux simply because it would be much too
> omplex - $$ - to develop when compared with the return on investment. -
>
Ever hear of Python?
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:15:57 GMT
On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:37:04 GMT, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> You didn't state it like it was meaningless opinion.
>>
>> [deletia]
>>
>> If you can't actually describe what is wrong with what you have,
>> it is absurd to think that you have any clue what you want. At
>> best you just seem to be on an anti-Microsoft jihad.
>
>Since your memory is failing, here's what I originally said which kicked this
>whole thing off:
>
>"I've really been getting nauseated with Linux ever since I first laid eyes on
>fvwm95. I ran Slackware a while back and I thought it was pretty keen. But
>Redhat makes me want to vomit. Everything tries to magically configure itself
>and do everything for me, the stupid user. Unfortunately when something goes
...damn that Intel deciding that the hardware having no real
clue or control as to what is going on in system is a bad idea.
>wrong (not if) there are now 12 more layers of complexity in my way to work on
>solving the problem. In the old Slackware days, I used to find the exact
>script or configuration file in no time flat, make the change, and I was done.
If you can't do that in Redhat, what happenns the next time you
for some reason need to move to a slightly variant other Unix?
You're essentially making the same sort of complaint that Windows
users do when they whine about anything being not exactly like
explorer or word.
Besides, some of the earliest 'wizard configurators' were actually
in Slackware.
>
>I despise software that assumes I have no clue what I'm doing."
>
>Do you see the word "Microsoft" in there? And after reading it again, what
Certainly, by way of Fvwm95.
It's certainly not a 'we'll do everything for your' sort of
windowmanager and is really just fvwm2 with really trivial
tweaks.
>was I actually complaining about (read the last quoted line)? I've got a very
>good idea what I want and need, your arrogant idiocy notwithstanding.
>
>> >> Personally, I think you're just a mindless troublemaker.
>> >
>> >How ironic.
>> >
>> >Meanwhile you've again leapt up onto your high horse and told me,
>> >matter-of-fact, that I don't know what I'm talking about while offering no
>> >credentials of your own. Your words are worthless and frankly I'm surprised
>>
>> Credentials are not required.
>
>They are if you're going to tell me what I do and don't want. Meanwhile I see
>you've avoided presenting them again. Not surprising. If you had anything of
>note, you'd undoubtedly have offered it. As I figured, I'm talking to a
>pumped up end user who doesn't know jack shit.
Quite the contrary. I've pointed out that there are all sorts of
end user interfaces out their for Unix, including some that turn
what would normally be conventional gui apps into character stream
oriented ones.
Everyone is coming to Linux from somewhere and bringing in interface
ideas from all over the place. Some are more visible than others but
that diversity has existed since the days of Fvwm95.
>
>> I'm not the one making the vacuous claims
>
>Bullshit. You're the one who's telling me that you know better than I do what
>is suited for me.
At the moment, I happen to be claiming that you have no reall
awareness of what you want.
>
>> and avoiding any attempt to add any useful detail to them.
>
>"I despise software that assumes I have no clue what I'm doing."
I'm not sure you really know what constitutes that sort of thing.
Certain sort of interfaces typically associated with ease of use
are not merely limited to drooling morons. Infact, one usually
gets more out of such interfaces if you have a bit of initiative.
>
>I've already given as much detail as anyone needs to see where I'm coming
>from.
>
>> >you know how to use that new-fangled "internet" thing at all.
>>
>> It would not surprise me if I have been flaming morons
>
>Don't you mean "have been a flaming moron"?
It doesn't really matter either way. The point is the same.
>
>> like you here on the net since before you even started computing.
>
>What makes me a moron? I know what makes you an asshole: your arrogance.
Yup, I'm arrogant.
That still doesn't change your lack of articulation.
[deletia]
>
>> You can't even articulate what precisely is 'wrong'.
>
>"I despise software that assumes I have no clue what I'm doing."
That is highly vague and subjective.
It also makes it sound like you only seek out interfaces
that soothe your own inferiority complexes.
>
>> Nor can you offer any suggestions regarding alternatives, not even
>> unrealistic ones.
>
>Why should I? It's not my problem, after all. I've made it not be my problem
>by chosing a platform that met my tastes better.
You made a claim. You might as well fully articulate it.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive!
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:16:00 +0200
Drestin Black wrote:
> Remember how we always laughed at people when they'd stay stupid things
> like: "I installed this game and it physically destroyed my hard drive" and
> we'd patiently point out that that's impossible and it's probably a fried
> partition and/or FAT table and so on...
>
> well, it turns out that Linux onces again "innovates" - it's now possible to
> actually, physically destroy your hard drive using some simple code (link
> provided)...
Great stuff Drestin... but now tell us why this is Linux specific or dont
you think this code or similar code can run on Windows?
Hint Drestin, you'll never win the Nobel prise :-)
------------------------------
From: "D. C. & M. V. Sessions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:16:44 -0700
OSguy wrote:
>
> Pig wrote:
>
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I am a newbie of Linux and using the SUSE linux 6.3.
> > I've tried different GUIs.
> > I think the Gnome and KDE are the best.
> > So, which one is better? Pls. suggest.
>
> Do you know that you can have 2 accounts, 1 running Gnome, and the other
> running KDE? (I run Gnome on 1 account, Motif on another account, KDE
> on a 3rd account, and Afterstep on a 4th account....because I can.) Set
> the accounts up, try both Desktops, and decide which you like.
Or for that matter use a login manager that allows you to have
one login but pick the desktop at login time (the KDE login mgr.
does that quite nicely, even if you're using Gnome.)
--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a tooth fairy, but whois toothfairy.com works. |
+----------- D. C. & M. V. Sessions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----------+
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
From: Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:18:09 GMT
Curtis Bass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> But I can also see your point, at least in terms of philosophy; UNIX has
> traditionally been a "toolkit" type of environment, with small
> tools/utilities that can be piped together in order to solve a
> particular problem, but has lately been following the Windows Monolithic
> "everything including the kitchen sink" approach to packaging solutions.
Now you've reminded me else of something annoying.
In a way it's not as easy to follow the same "pipe together"
philosophy with a GUI. How do you pipe the output of "grep" into a
dialog box?
Unfair to compare since it's a cross platform program is StarOffice
(which is so fat that it nearly always comes up in comparisons if
only because it has a thumb in every pie), but if that's the future
of Unix productivity applications then we better start making a MIA
list of Unix features compromised by programs that follow non-Unix
philosophies too far.
> Hmm, I guess, at this point in the game, we need to define "real
> creativity." Would not the concept of replacable Window Managers
> qualify? Or skinability, as we have in KDE and GNOME/Enlightenment?
I think that "skins" are too trivial to be counted. They don't add
functionality nor do they change the user interface (you don't change
a door by painting it a different color).
But we have window managers. Okay, that's cool. But what else is
there? :-)
Regards,
Chris Wenham
------------------------------
From: "D. C. & M. V. Sessions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:25:19 -0700
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when SL News Posting would say:
> >In article <8lqfnk$bli$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > ishpeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >|> Nothing better than strait windowmaker. :)
> >|>
> >
> >Sure there is - straight twm - been using it for 10 years[*] and
> >have no need for all the desktop clutter, sound, moving menus,
> >themes, etc. *tvtwm is available to provide a virtual screen
> >larger than the physical screen for those who need such.
>
> Ah. Wuss.
>
> What you _want_ is wmx, which gets rid of even _more_ of the clutter...
You had ones? All we had was zeros.
--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a tooth fairy, but whois toothfairy.com works. |
+----------- D. C. & M. V. Sessions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----------+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:29:30 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Cihl would say:
>Arthur Frain wrote:
>>
>> Drestin Black wrote:
>>
>> > Andre posted a thing he called disk-destroyer.c (see below) which
>> > will use an IDE command to trash the partition table on a disk, thus
>> > rendering all data inaccessible.
>>
>> Windows has had this feature for years. I've
>> had Win95 destroy it's partition table several
>> times, all by itself, with no input from me.
>> I've even had scandisk do it.
>
>Yes! Windows DOES have the feature Drestin's talking about, but it's
>not about erasing patition tables. That's something you can do in any
>OS if you want to.
>
>It's about erasing/overwriting FIRMWARE! Do you know what that means?
>That means if you do that, your disk will become utterly USELESS!!!
Which is, despite being catastrophically bad, nonetheless _not_
what Drestin describes it as.
Blanking the firmware certainly is catastrophic, but the notion that
this has the slightest thing to do with Linux is a deranged fantasy.
It clearly represents something that IDE drives were _designed_ to
be able to do.
But heading back to the title line, blanking the firmware is _not_
"physical destruction" of the disk drive, however catastrophic it
may be to the continuing usefulness of the drive.
Back in the old days of the Commodore PET, we had a place where we could
"POKE" that would activate hardware and have the potential to downright
burn out the motherboard. Physical destruction of the motherboard _is_
"physical destruction." In contrast, erasing firmware _is not_ physical
destruction. Catastrophic? Sure. But not by virtue of having physically
destroyed any computer hardware.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
What is the difference between a robot and a duck?
Answer: A duck floats when you throw it in the water.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:30:22 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Cihl would say:
>Drestin Black wrote:
>>
>[snipped IDE-drive problem rant]
>
>As soon as i saw Andre Hedrick post that piece of code (on ldk, that
>is) i knew some ignorant Windows-advocate would start blabbing away
>about it real soon.
>
>Fact is, this is mainly a IDE-drive problem. I read the flamewars on
>ldk on it as well, and it looks like this is a serious problem with
>all IDE-harddisks manufactured since halfway the 90's. It is possible
>to overwrite the firmware of any harddisk with a simple low-level
>call.
>
>The Linux kernel development team, and Andre Hedrick in particular, is
>probably the first to make a BIG issue out of this. He first proposed
>a patch to the kernel, which was excluded by the rest because it was
>really not possible to secure all the holes with it. Then he proposed
>to pass it to the ATA-committee to include some kind of signing-style
>security or a jumper on the HD itself to prevent this from happening
>instead.
Interesting.
The unsuspecting reader that read Drestin's article might be led to
believe that something having to do with Linux led to an IDE drive
"hack" coming from some teenaged "would-be-disk-destroyer."
The above suggests a rather different scenario, that the discoverer
was trying to close this "security" hole that the makers of other
Fine Operating Systems had either overlooked or ignored.
>Biggest problem is still: right now ALL modern OS's have this leak,
>including all Windows-variants and all Unix-derivatives.
>
>PLEASE let's hope none of the h@x0rs writing for Windows 98 (loads of
>those!) or BeOS (nobody i know) find a way of putting something like
>this in a virus or something. These OS's in particular have NO
>security whatsoever against things like this.
It's yet another argument in favor of SCSI, and in favor of considering
"Pee Cee" hardware to be insecure by design.
>Looks like this is the old monitor-refresh-frequencies bug all over
>again.
It has the difference that it can make large quantities of data
instantaneously inaccessible.
This would make "ILOVEYOU" look pretty inexpensive...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
>Ever heard of .cshrc?
That's a city in Bosnia. Right?
(Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands.)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:33:16 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Colin R. Day would say:
>John Jensen wrote:
>> Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> : John Jensen wrote:
>>
>> : > : Don't know about rpm, but dpkg (Debian packager) has apt-get, which
>> : > : does this.
>>
>> : > I'm willing to try this too, but I'm a bit confused. If the problem is
>> : > solved, and rpm/apt-get really do let us upgrade ad-hoc. Why is there
>> : > still such an emphasis on 'release'? Rather than wait for the 'potato'
>> : > release, shouldn't Debian say "Hey, Thursday is as good a day as any.
>> : > Why don't you click 'update' and get in sync with the latest Debian"?
>>
>> : Some people have only 56k modems.
>>
>> If that was the cause, wouldn't monthly CDs serve the same purpose?
>
>I don't know if Debian could afford to mail out monthly CD's
Of course "they" could, if you're paying for the postage and the
blanks and the envelopes they go in.
The real point of the "stable" releases is that it is at the "stable"
points where CDs get burned in large quantity, as a result of there
being a maximum quantity of maximally stable software.
A "stable" release is expected to be able to be readily installable on
a wide variety of hardware without there being a need to "hack" at it
due to some blemish that comes from there being not-yet-hugely-tested
changes in place.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
>Ever heard of .cshrc?
That's a city in Bosnia. Right?
(Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands.)
------------------------------
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