Linux-Advocacy Digest #465, Volume #28 Thu, 17 Aug 00 23:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why Lycos Selected Microsoft and Intel (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: It's official, Microsoft® porting applications to Linux (sfcybear)
Re: Om (mlw)
Re: news article (Tim Hanson)
Re: Windows has made me stupid !!! Thanks, Bill. (Windows is worst than
Crack-Cocaine) (Me)
Re: It's official, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Microsoft=AE?= porting applications to (Tim
Hanson)
Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous Wintrolls
and Authentic Linvocates) (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: It's official, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Microsoft=AE?= porting applications to (Tim
Hanson)
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (Jim Richardson)
Re: Fragmentation of Linux Community? Yeah, right! (Jim Richardson)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Jim Richardson)
Re: Windows has made me stupid !!! Thanks, Bill. (Windows is worst than (Gary
Hallock)
Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating (Jerry McBride)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why Lycos Selected Microsoft and Intel
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 02:04:12 GMT
In article <LUWl5.17170$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8mg4e0$sml$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snip>
> > Lycos has tried Windows NT three times.
>
> lie.
>
> >The first time, they tried
> > to run an array of NT 3.51 servers against Sun servers. The were
> > allowed to announce that they were using NT, and users were given
> > the options and counts for each server. You could pick either.
> > NT failed so badly that Lycos pulled the plug on it. They issued
> > a carefully worded announcement (designed to slip past the Microsoft
> > NDA censors) which - if you read between the lines - said "We had
> > so many problems we just decided that we couldn't afford the hassle,
> > no matter how much free stuff Microsft was willing to give us".
>
> More lies.
How old are you Drestin?
What were YOU doing in 1994!
How many web sites had YOU hosted!
I had already put Dow Jones on the site, had worked with techical
leaders at the New York Times, the Washington Post, and was
in communication via e-mail with Marc Andreeson and the founders
of Lycos, Yahoo, and Infoseek. see http://www.open4success.com/Olnews
Lycos was one of the first commercial web-based search engines (WAIS
Inc, with whom I was working, was the first). They originally
implemented using Sun machines. Initially Sparc 20s then 6s and then
Enterprise 1000s.
> > When NT 4.0 came out, Lycos waited until after Service pak 3, and
> > again tried using NT 4.0 strictly as a front-end server. Again,
> > they found that the overhead was too expensive. The trial was
> > unplugged before they even got out.
>
> even more lies.
I got this one via a usenet post, so it could be bogus. It was during
1997 when I switched from Online-Newpapers mailing lists to dejanews.
I'm not sure which source. I know Microsoft had been putting a lot
of pressure on everybody to put NT into high-profile server roles.
It's certainly likely that they were approached, ran some preliminary
tests, and simply decided not to even attempt to put it into production.
> > This time, Microsoft is pulling out all the stops.
> > They are planning
> > to support 1000 Windows 2000 servers as "front-ends". Lycos could
> > still pull the plug and switch to Linux or FreeBSD, but this way
> > they get free hardware, software, installation, and support.
>
> one way of putting it...
And if this test failed, Microsoft will insist that Lycos honor the
clause of the agreement which forbids it from publishing information
that could damage the brand name. You don't really think that
Microsoft will be willing to have Lycos print on it's home page
"Microsoft bombs again" do you?
> > Don't expect to find either of the above tests on the Microsoft
> > site. Microsoft burns the dead bodies.
>
> ahhhh... so convienient... and I supposed
> MS also killed EVERYONE involved
> in the project, present and ex-employees
> and burned their dead bodies too?
I didn't mean that Microsoft actually killed anybody.
I'm just saying that you aren't going to see many public
disclosures of Microsoft failures. Certainly not on the
Microsoft site (even in the "here's what NOT to do section").
When news of a virus or killer bug does leak out, Microsoft
announces a trivial patch that is supposed to fix it. Which
raises the question - how could Melissa, Explore-zip, Iloveyou,
and 'resume' have succeeded if Microsoft supposedly closed the
security hole?
1994 was a long time ago in web-years. The average
Internet consultant stays with a client for 12-18 months in
a "long term" engagement. The average venture-capital/pre-IPO
employee stays long enough for his options to vest.
I know you work for a company that makes and sells Microsoft
products. Have you ever seen, read, and reviewed with a lawyer,
the terms and conditions of the standard Microsoft alliance
agreement?
Some of the clauses that really stick in my mind:
1. The strategic partner is OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE ... (everywhere)
2. Microsoft will MAKE A REASONABLE EFFORT TO PROVIDE (everywhere)
3. The partner will make no public statements without submitting
the copy, in writing, and getting prior approval from Microsoft.
4. Microsoft may announce this agreement at any time (including
even if the partner has since switched to UNIX).
5. The partner will not speak to attorneys in any legal action
without a Microsoft provided attorney being present.
6. The partner will not volunteer to speak to attorneys without
Microsoft's prior approval.
7. The partner will not disclose the contents of this agreement.
These are snippets of contracts that I dealt with in 1994, 1996, and
1997. Even the NDA for the Job interview required that I not disclose
the nature and contents of the interview for at least (2?) years. Since
that was in February of 1998, I still have about 6 months to go.
> And MS is able to keep secrets better than
> ANY organzation in the world?
They were the largest U.S. corporation. Bill Gates is the
richest man in the world. Steve Ballmer isn't far behind.
Microsoft has the highest earnigs to revenue ratio of
any U.S. corporation. You think they got that way by
being "nice guys"? Ask Ray Noorda, Phil Karn, Gary Kildall,
Steve Jobs, the folks at Borland, Corel, the former Lotus,
the former WordPerfect, the former DBASE, the former Harvard
Graphics, the former Aldus, or even Adobe, Oracle, Sybase,
and of course Marc Andreeson, Jim Barksdale, and John Akers,
what they think of Microsoft. Then ask them to go on record!
They can't. Microsoft has NDAs with the companies that purchased
the skeletons of the former companies. And the former officers
have positions they can't resign - to make sure that they don't
say "nuttin'"
Ethical behavior is the antithesis of the "Microsoft Religion".
And I have heard top executives at Microsoft refer to it as
just that - a Religion. They also quoted "Bill" like confucious.
I'd like to tell you more, but I have to wait until sinility sets in.
> What next, MS tried to port Project Majestic 3
> times to CP/M, DOS then
> Windows 3.1 before all the data was
> lost and that's why no one can prove the
> Roswell incident?
It's interesting to actually read project bluebook. Much like
Microsoft's own marketing/PR strategy. By mixing 5-7 genuine
unexplained phenomenon with nearly 100 hoaxes, you can assume that
they are all hoaxes. But what makes the report most interesting
is that they state that "while most of these were hoaxes or natural
phenomenon, we are know that the remainder are not a threat to national
security, nor do they represent anything that could give us a military
advantage. This suggests not only contact, but also communication.
If you think about it, an A-Bomb going off in southern New Mexico
would have looked like a distress flair to equipment capable of
identifying asteroids and intersteller ice in a vehicle going
at anything approaching light speed (you'd need to identify
obsticles only 30 meters in diameter, in time to take evasive
action, while travelling at nearly 300,000,000 meters per second.
To an intersteller ship, used to seeing nothing from "old Sol" but
an occaisional asteroid impact, suddenly sees a water soaked planet
emitting radiation from a fusion reaction - it's certainly something
you'd want to investigate.
But would a high-tech civilization upon realizing that 3 A-bombs
were being used against the most technologically advanced species
(mere monkeys with toys by their standards), you'd proceed much
more cautiously. You would want to investigate the location of
the original flare, just to make sure it wasn't one of your own,
then you'd study the inhabitants very closely for signs of your
comrade.
I have no clue what happened in Roswell. It was probably just
military activity of some sort. But I doubt anyone will ever
sort out the multiple revisions of history that have occurred
since the first sighting. Notice however, how our perception
of aliens has shifted from "War of the Worlds" to "Star Wars",
to "Earth Final Conflict". Pretty soon, will only have lovable
aliens like E.T. Maybe by then, we'll be ready for a formal visit
and invitation.
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 42 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: It's official, Microsoft® porting applications to Linux
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 02:32:29 GMT
Sorry all, MS office is not coming to Linux
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/08/17/000817hnmslinux.xml
In article <8nhl6h$lb7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"John Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Milton wrote in message ...
> >In a desperate attempt, to regain some legitimacy in the high-tech
> >software arena, Microsoft® is letting a an experienced 3rd party,
> >Mainsoft, port it's applications to the state of the art operating
> >system, Linux.
> >
> >The results, so far, have been disappointing.
>
> Could they be anything else ?
>
> >
> >Brought to you by Windows 2000 Magazine
> >http://www.wininformant.com/display.asp?ID=2874
> >
> >:)
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Om
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:44:02 -0400
Sphere wrote:
[snipped DVD code]
I would call that art, however, no "but" was defined. Since it does not
compile, one could not possibly say you are hurting anyone!
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: news article
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 02:52:12 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > Ed Cogburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > The difference is, with Linux, no one is trying to hide the known
> > > > problems. Would someone please tell David about the "Windows has
> > > > <insert-huge-number-here> 'defects' story"? I can't remember the
> > > > details of it anymore.
> > >
> > > Are you referring to the 63,000 known bugs in Windows 2000 that
> Microsoft
> > > solved by reclassifing them as issues?
> >
> > Ashton-Tate used to call them "anomolies."
>
> Many think Borland went to hell after they took in Ashton-Tate.
Remember the infamous dBase IV? Gad, what a fiasco.
Probably wasn't their best decision, but Phillipe was no match for the
Borg, either.
--
If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door.
-- Paul Beatty
------------------------------
From: Me <#h#a#n#d#y#m#a#n#@#r#c#o#n#n#e#c#t.#c#o#m#>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.windows2000,alt.linux,alt.windows98
Subject: Re: Windows has made me stupid !!! Thanks, Bill. (Windows is worst than
Crack-Cocaine)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:37:25 -0500
IBM ???????
I thought they made OS2.
Didnt know they were dealing with Linux these days.
By the way, OS2 was the best GUI operating system ever made. Probably
still is, but there was no support or software for it. I installed it
for awhile. I tried to crash it..... Near impossible, short of
deleting the system files.....
Too bad MS swallowed up the market.
But just like the old Beta video tapes, the VHS format swallowed the
better product.
George
=================
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:08:03 -0700, "Joey Le"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>linux is better at that, hehe, but remember that it does not have much hard
>and software compatibilities.
>IBM is making linux alittle more happy these days.
>
>"N_User" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> I was doing so well with computers, I had a BBS going, I was
>> programming, etc...
>>
>> Then Windows came out and turned me into a point and click idiot.
>>
>> I had a bright future in the IT industry, but Windows has turned me
>> into a win-idiot.
>>
>> I'm hoping Linux can rehabilitate me. Make my brain work again.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for nothing windows.
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: It's official, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Microsoft=AE?= porting applications to
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:01:49 GMT
Ray Chason wrote:
>
> Milton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In a desperate attempt, to regain some legitimacy in the high-tech
> >software arena, Microsoft® is letting a an experienced 3rd party,
> >Mainsoft, port it's applications to the state of the art operating
> >system, Linux.
> >
> >The results, so far, have been disappointing.
> >
> >Brought to you by Windows 2000 Magazine
> >http://www.wininformant.com/display.asp?ID=2874
>
> Color me cynical, but it seems to me that it'd be just like Microsoft to
> deliberately make a hash of a Linux port, and then use this "failure" to
> spread FUD.
>
> But, just in case this effort is in good faith: the article notes that
>
> # The complicated undertaking...requires the companies to map native
> # Win32 API calls to the Linux equivalents so that Windows applications
> # will run normally in that environment.
>
> This is exactly what Wine is trying to do. If Microsoft is undertaking
> this effort in good faith, perhaps they could lend a few tips to the Wine
> people -- and without sneaky licensing terms such as they tried to pull
> with their version of Kerberos.
Ha! That'll be the day. You can bet Mainsoft is bleeding through the
eyeballs for those APIs, and the NDAs would require a forklift. I make
it a habit to look for the most sinister motives when judging M$
business strategy, and I usually underestimate their level of
connivance.
>
> The article further notes that
>
> # ...most Microsoft applications--especially those in the Office suite--
> # use a number of proprietary interfaces...
>
> Didn't Microsoft deny this in court?
Right. They denied a lot of things in court.
--
If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door.
-- Paul Beatty
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the GDI-in-kernel-mode thing really so bad?... (was Re: Anonymous
Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates)
Date: 18 Aug 2000 03:03:49 GMT
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:17:24 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>Windows is playing catchup with Linux by putting FTP client into the file
>manager in the form of a patched Windows Explorer as of IE4 when Linux had
>it well before.
Are you saying that Windows didn't have any file managers that were ftp-aware
before IE ? I'd find that surprising.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: It's official, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Microsoft=AE?= porting applications to
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:03:52 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Ray Chason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > # The complicated undertaking...requires the companies to map native
> > # Win32 API calls to the Linux equivalents so that Windows applications
> > # will run normally in that environment.
> >
> > This is exactly what Wine is trying to do. If Microsoft is undertaking
> > this effort in good faith, perhaps they could lend a few tips to the Wine
> > people -- and without sneaky licensing terms such as they tried to pull
> > with their version of Kerberos.
>
> Actually, this has been done for other Unix already. Mainsoft's Wind/U is a
> port of Win32 to Unix. They're just porting it to Linux now.
>
> > The article further notes that
> >
> > # ...most Microsoft applications--especially those in the Office suite--
> > # use a number of proprietary interfaces...
> >
> > Didn't Microsoft deny this in court?
>
> I think you're confusing API with interface. I think the article is talking
> about the user interface, which is very proprietary in Office, since Office
> tends to be the first applications to do something (like flat toolbar
> buttons), thus they have to code it themselves.
You know, this all sounds like old news. Mainsoft is not a new venture;
we were hearing about Unix and Linux ports last year. My suspicion is
that it was "leaked" to give Microsoft _some_ press during LinuxWorld.
--
If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door.
-- Paul Beatty
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:45:58 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:50:11 -0400,
T. Max Devlin, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> [...]
>>BASIC only *LOOKS* easier.
>>
>>In fact, it's more difficult. Proof of this is the fact that you will
>>not find ANY large applications written in BASIC, even though
>>compilers for the language have existed for 20 years.
>
>That depends on what you mean by "easier". Easier to develop large
>applications in? Certainly not. How many times must I point out that
>my interest is not in application development, but simple desktop
>automation? You don't *need* much more than BASIC for macros!
>
>I think most of 'you' who know "programming languages" are simply unable
>to grasp the concept of an "end user automation language", and that's
>the only thing I've ever considered or described BASIC as being good
>for.
>
>--
I think that the point most are making, is that languages like Python
and Tcl are better that BASIC for the purpose you are talking about.
IOW, you may like whatever flavour of BASIC it is you are talking about,
but until you've tried something else like <plug> Python</plug> your
comparison lacks merit.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Fragmentation of Linux Community? Yeah, right!
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:48:44 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 03:10:42 -0500,
Erik Funkenbusch, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>The KDE people do not seem to be taking this lying down. There is probably
>going to be an all-out war soon. The days of peaceful cooperation between
>KDE and GNOME are probably over.
Why? They're co-operating more than in the past.
<snipe Gnome announcement>
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:07:25 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:50:10 -0300,
Roberto Alsina, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>"Colin R. Day" escribió:
>>
>> Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> >
>> > You have to have SOME standard.
>> >
>>
>> But what if it's a different (and conflicting) standard?
>
>Then I will accept you have that standard and not bother arguing
>unless you try to convince me my standard is somehow evil.
I am not worried about people trying to convince me of something,
unless their methods follow for example, the Inquisition.
>
>> > > Cognition.
>> >
>> > How does cognition lead to the decision that eating the dead is not
>> > right?
>>
>> Did I claim that cannibalism was wrong? I only remember claiming
>> not to be a cannibal.
>
>I said you were (ethically or morally, can't recall) equivalent to a
>cannibal, and you said you weren't. Are you saying you are inferior?
I think he was responding to the (perhaps unintentional) assumption that a
cannibal is some one who kills another person and eats them, not someone who
simply snacks on a random dead guy.
>> >
>> > WHAT? Ok, here's a longer version: you brought the greek's lack of
>> > inquisition as a cause for greek philosophy, and somehow tried to
>> > blame renaissance western europeans for not trying to be greek
>> > philosophers. I merely mentioned that there are many necessary
>> > and not sufficient reasons for greek philosophy, including slavery
>> > and nice weather. Thus, by your argument, they may have needed to
>> > drop the inquisition and adopt slavery, while moving to the south.
>>
>> They needed to drop the Inquisition, but the Renaissance did not
>> need slavery, nor did it need to move north. The achievement of
>> some degree of liberty was one of the causes of the Renaissance.
>
>The renaissance, despite achievements in arts, was pretty much
>a very bad time to live.
But it was a lot better than the period of time before it. Feudalism was
dying, progress was rampant, and until the Inq showed up, fewer people
were being murderd because of their religions (excluding wars, which are
abhorrant and a diff subject.)
>
>> The Church gets some credit as a patron of the fine arts and
>> architecture, but the spending led to protests in Germany
>> under Luther.
>
>Cheap germans ;-)
Not just the Germans :)
People didn't object to things like patronage of the arts so much as
things like indulgences and high living church officials, oh, and
the latin thing.
>
>Galileo's methods were nothing we would recognize as scientific.
>For one thing, he was not an experimentalist, except for some
>small things.
Come again? the whole leaning tower and the cannon ball bit?
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:07:31 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.windows98
Subject: Re: Windows has made me stupid !!! Thanks, Bill. (Windows is worst than
Me wrote:
> IBM ???????
> I thought they made OS2.
> Didnt know they were dealing with Linux these days.
Gee, where have you been? IBM is a big supporter of Linux these days. Just
to name a few of their contributions to Linux:
- DB2
- JFS open source
- AFS open source (just announced)
- Linux for S/390
- Via Voice
- Jikes Jave compiler
- Lotus Domino
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jerry McBride)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:12:43 -0400
In article <8n81j3$9vg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-- snip --
>> Let's see, there's Yggdrasil, then a RedHat 4.0, then 4.2, then 5.0,
>> then 6.0, then 6.1, not to mention Caldera Linux 2.3, and a Debian
>> 2.1, and about 3 versions of Slackware rangine from my first floppy
>> set on up to this latest version 6 or 7 or whatever it is.
>
>IDC doesn't even include Slackware in it's counts. The Red Hat 6.1
>and Caldera 2.3 would both count. You'd count as two sales for a single
>user.
>
>On the flip side, you have people who have "Install Party's" with a
>single (or pair) of Linux CD's cloned on a CD-Burner. And you have
>the kids in the classroom passing around a copy of Linux, doing 10-20
>installs per month.
>
Hey! Don't forget about the semi-pro consultant types that hand out cdr copies
of Linux with business cards tape to them...
Like it says on the card. "Works, all the time..."
:')
--
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> In space, no one can hear you rip a stinky... <
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