Linux-Advocacy Digest #58, Volume #29 Mon, 11 Sep 00 19:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: How low can they go...?
Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised.... ("John Hill")
Re: How low can they go...? ("D'Arcy Smith")
Re: [Q] linux on mac? (Ken Klavonic)
Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform (IE for Linux) (Gary Hallock)
Re: Vs: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised.... (Giuliano Colla)
Re: The Government's Decision to Use Microsoft (Thomas Corriher)
Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised.... (Damien)
Another "feature" in IE discovered. (D. Spider)
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Shitty MLM Award for Linux Mandrake (Darren Wyn Rees)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:50:37 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:D3av5.70567$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8pj9ui$kmg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:ZB2v5.69549$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Many many many developers do -- but not usually in shrink-wrap
products
> > that
> > > you can buy in stores (exceptions being PDA synch software for the
> palm).
> > > Outlook is useful to bind to for *INTRANET* work.
> > >
> > > Besides... how do you think that the ILoveYou virus worked? :)
> >
> > Is that a benefit of programming that way? I can see the promotional
> slogan
> > now, "Program using these Microsoft scantioned methods and help Mellisa
> say
> > I love you to your customers too.
>
> Technology can be used for good or evil.
Certain features should not be implemented, just because it can be.
Manytimes security should take priority over featuritis. That is the leason
that macro viri should have taught to the general public that have not been
concerned about computer security before.
------------------------------
From: "John Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised....
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:07:30 +0100
Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...
>On 11 Sep 2000 18:01:41 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>In alt.destroy.microsoft Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> It's absurd to compare aggressive marketting and vendor
>>> lock to wholesale destruction of the environment. Your post
>>> is diversionary nonsense.
>>
>>What do you think happens to all the RAMs, Hard-disk, casing, diskette's,
>>CPUs that get thrown out when the next offering from the Dark Lords
>>require an upgrade?
>
>Do you think that everyone would just stop upgrading their hardware if
>MS went away ? How many Linux users use a machine over 5 years old as
>their primary desktop ?
There you are you see - and of course you bought all new software
when you upgraded....didn't you ???
>
>The truth is that people want the latest and greatest software, and they
>want hardware that can use it. ( If that wasn't true, we'd all be happy
>Commodore 64 users )
So - you are lying - you say that people don't want to upgrade and
you are wrong - thats the truth....
>
>>You think wholesale waste of the earth's resource feeding the Redmond
>>behemouth is good for the earth's environment?
>
>I don't think that MS has anything to do with people wanting to upgrade
>their hardware. There are people who don't use any MS software on their
>machines who still upgrade their hardware.
So there.....Donovan shows you are just plain wrong....
There is one saving grace though........Donovan is plainly a fucking
idiot...
>
>--
>Donovan
------------------------------
From: "D'Arcy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:16:21 GMT
"Ermine Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:#V1A25CHAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09...
> You have to read through the court orders regarding the denial of Sun's
> motions ... the Judge states his reasons for denying the motions and cites
> these factors.
> I agree that these aren't final and are still subject to change and that
> there are a number of issues still to resolve - but surely you can agree
> that Sun has lost the majority of the issues straight out?
They don't support what you are claiming at all... beyond
the "contract -vs- copyright" issue. At best all you will
find is thing stating to effect that "it can be interpreted
either way".
On the topic of extensions - the injunction was given to
Sun based on the courts opinion that they are likely
to win. Based on that you could say that things are
going Suns way (except for the copyright/contract bit).
..darcy
------------------------------
From: Ken Klavonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Q] linux on mac?
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:14:54 -0400
Jim Richardson wrote:
>
> On 11 Sep 2000 14:22:18 GMT,
> Brian Langenberger, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> brought forth the following words...:
>
> >Rich C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >: "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >: news:8pgu4t$1jt2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >:> Anon Y. Mous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >:> > if i install linux on a mac, how difficult is the conversion?
> >:>
> >:> It depends on what you mean by "conversion". LinuxPPC has become
> >:> (after quite a long time) incredibly easy to install. Same for
> >:> Yellowdog. Theyre both redhat based.
> >:>
> >:> You of course wont be able to run any of your mac software, but
> >:> it could be argued that that is a Good Thing (TM).
> >:>
> >: Perhaps the hardest thing would be converting that cyclops mouse to
> >: something with 2 or 3 buttons. You need to middle click to paste in many
> >: Linux apps. You can simulate a third button with 2 buttons, but how do you
> >: simulate a third button with only one?
> >
> >But since all the new Macs are USB-based, it shouldn't be
> >tough to plug in a nice 3-button mouse to one. I might make my
> >next box a Mac (for quietness and cool-running chips) when I'm
> >sure the MacOS can be exorcised completely.
> >
>
> I used MkLinux for a year or two on a PPC, it worked nice. Until I got the 3
> button trackball I had to use the option and apple keys as modifiers for the
> other 2 buttons, a pain, but doable.
> Never did get entirely rid of Macos thanks to the open firmware, but I hear
> LinuxPPC does, although I have never used it.
>
> (Jim, who sometimes wonders about buying an Imac and Linuxing it...)
>
"Linuxing" an iMac is beautiful. I just put yellowdog on my Rev C iMac
last night. I have a Logitech 4-button wheel-mouse that Linux has no
problem with @ all. The only catch is that yaboot can be a little tricky
to work with, particularly manipulating the openfirmware settings, but
it's not too terribly hard to get it right by the third try... :)
Actually, I was a bit suprised at how similar Apple's OpenFirmware is to
Sun's OpenBoot (I think that's what it's called - corrections, anyone?),
so that once I'd realised that many of the same commands were there
(things like printenv, setenv, etc...), it was pretty easy going.
Now, my iMac boots with a much shorter post, and is well into the kernel
boot even before the screen warms up enough to display anything! But...
no more happy-mac either. Not sure what I think of that...
Also, the generic framebuffer that got installed on that machine only
seems to do 800x600x8 based on some hardware detection (I don't have the
dmesg output handy) during boot. Anyone have a quick and easy solution?
I'm going to work with it some more, but that was the only thing that I
could see that was just plain wrong...
Enjoy!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:47:12 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform (IE for Linux)
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> Don't put it past them (-;
>
> Seriously, what does the "E" in WINE stand for ? And yet, WINE is basically
> a reverse-engineered clone of an API.
>
It is true that the E in WINE stands for Emulator. Of, course, the WIN stands for
Wine
Is Not. Don't you just love those recursive acronyms?
Gary
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Vs: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised....
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:49:50 +0200
Ville Niemi wrote:
>
> Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti
> viestissä:8pj32v$gvt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "Ville Niemi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:nU7v5.318$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > > By your definition drug dealers are good people simply trying to make a
> > > living in a capitalist system. They too use unethical and illegal
> methods
> > to
> > > market products that are known to cause problems for people.
> > >
> > Some probably are. Why not include tobacco salesman in that, or perhaps
> > booze barons? Both products are known to cause (serious) harm or death.
> > How many people out there think what happened to MS was fair, yet still
> > smoke (illegal tactics, products that are proven to cause actual physical
> > harm)? Both involve choice on the part of the consumer, yet they still
> > choose to do it.
>
> Who said I don't? Tobacco is addictive, you know, so the choice is not
> precisely free. Alcohol is also addictive. Microsoft products cause
> dependencies...
And impair the judgment of addicts, up to the point to make them
completely moronic....
========
Ing. Giuliano Colla
Direttore Tecnico
Copeca srl
Via del Fonditore 3/E
40139 Bologna (Italy)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Corriher)
Subject: Re: The Government's Decision to Use Microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], abuse@[127.0.0.1]
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:54:20 GMT
On 11 Sep 2000 19:03:00 GMT, Anthony D. Tribelli
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The military and various Universities have access to Microsoft
>source code.
That sounds reasonable; and I have no reason to doubt Tony's
honesty or knowledge about this subject. Nevertheless, I hope
that Tony proves this contention by citing documentation of
this fact. Personally, I would love to read about it.
If Tony is correct, then the controlled openness (intersting
oxymoron) of the code is still not a great benefit to the
government. The power of open source code comes from the fact
that it is studied by thousands of hackers across the world.
The MS code cannot be sucessfully audited if only a handful
of select people are allowed to view it. Moreover, the U.S.
government's understanding of security could be described as
incompentent; to describe it very mildly. How could these
same people be expected to perform an audit of the source for
that mammoth known as Windows NT?
Remeber the recent governmental statement that stated: "Please
stop 'hacking' us"? Now that is sad, and embarrassing for me
as an American. The "experts" even called it "hacking" too!
These are the same group of people that forgot to put
passwords on the government's exposed MSSQL databases.
They even stick the pentagons servers on the open Internet!
It is damn pathetic.
It is a little like giving the three stooges a chain saw
instead of a sledge hammer.
--
From the desk of Thomas Corriher
The real email address is:
corriher at bellsouth.
net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Damien)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised....
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 11 Sep 2000 22:57:47 GMT
On 11 Sep 2000 21:44:46 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On 11 Sep 2000 18:01:41 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| >In alt.destroy.microsoft Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| >
| >> It's absurd to compare aggressive marketting and vendor
| >> lock to wholesale destruction of the environment. Your post
| >> is diversionary nonsense.
| >
| >What do you think happens to all the RAMs, Hard-disk, casing, diskette's,
| >CPUs that get thrown out when the next offering from the Dark Lords
| >require an upgrade?
|
| Do you think that everyone would just stop upgrading their hardware if
| MS went away ? How many Linux users use a machine over 5 years old as
| their primary desktop ?
My primary desktop machine was purchased on clearance 4 years ago. So
that makes it about 5 year old. My laptop, while much newer, has
similar specs. I could buy a new computer, but given the performance
I get out of these, there really isn't much need. Eventually I will
break down and buy a new machine to play quake on but even then I will
keep these around because they are very useful. If I was using
Windows I'd have to have thrown both of these away by now. They'd
just be too slow.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Spider)
Subject: Another "feature" in IE discovered.
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:55:42 GMT
IE feature can track Web surfers without warning
By Paul Festa
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
September 11, 2000, 12:50 p.m. PT
People surfing the Web incognito may want to think twice before
using Internet Explorer.
Microsoft today said it is investigating a possible privacy loophole
in its Internet Explorer browser that could thwart efforts by people
who want to surf the Web anonymously. The feature in IE 5 and above,
referred to by Microsoft as "persistence," is designed to let Web
pages remember information, such as search queries, entered by
visitors.
But privacy advocates complain, and Microsoft today acknowledged, that
the trade-off for that convenience is that Web sites could uniquely
identify visitors as they return over time--without any warning from
IE.
Microsoft defended the feature and pointed out that the vast majority
of Web surfers already are knowingly vulnerable to the same level of
exposure.
Full story at:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2751843.html?tag=st.ne.1002.tgif.ni
#####################################################
My email address is posted for purposes of private
correspondence only. Consent is expressly NOT given
to receive advertisements, or bulk mailings of any
kind.
#####################################################
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:56:35 -0400
"Joe R." wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:00:41 +0100, Stuart Fox
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >>
> > > >> It is the HIGHT OF ARROGANCE to consider that man has even a
> > > >> noticable
> > > >> impact on climate,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >It is the height of arrogance to consider that we don't. It is
> > > >exactly this
> > > >arrogance that means we have such a problem with pollution now.
> > >
> > > What is arrogant is to think that we can destroy the planet.
> > > The planet and her ecosystem can heal itself.
> >
> > Spot the contradiction.
> >
> > That which is ***DESTROYED*** cannot heal itself.
> >
>
> Maybe you should read what he said.
Oops, you're write. I interpreted the 1st statement as the opposite.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:57:13 -0400
Rick wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Rick wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ZnU wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Rick wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rick wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rick wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "Joe R." wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Courageous
> > > > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But a better thing would be to make the public schools at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > least as
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > good as the private schools. I believe, perhaps naively,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be done; and even more naively, that it isn't simply
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a matter of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > money.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's much a matter of money; halving the class sizes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > requires doubling
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the number of teachers, for example.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe that class size is the only thing wrong with
> > > > > > > > > > > > the schools,
> > > > > > > > > > > > of course.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It is by no means the only thng wrong, but is a large part in
> > > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > areas.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please explain why the best universities in the world routinely
> > > > > > > > > > put their students through classes where the material is taught
> > > > > > > > > > in lectures where the class size is in the HUNDREDS.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Generally speak, those universities attract better students. Those
> > > > > > > > > students have learned how to learn.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BINGO.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now, tell me why the public schools currently do everything they
> > > > > > > > can to PREVENT students from learning how to learn.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ***WE*** do not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, really. Then why do American high school students' science and math
> > > > > > scores ABSOLUTELY SUCK compared to the rest of the industrialized world,
> > > > > > including such backwards places as Russia.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's review:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) American high school students' science and math scores are lower than
> > > > > average for industrialized nations.
> > > > > 2) Virtually every other industrialized nation has an educational system
> > > > > significantly more socialistic than ours.
> > > > > 3) BUT! The US educational system is secretly in the control of
> > > > > Communists!
> > > >
> > > > The NEA is a thoroughly marxist organization deliberately sabotaging
> > > > the public schools.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are an entirely one note song. Have you ever belonged to NEA? Is you
> > > hero Tailgunner Joe?
> >
> > Are you saying that the NEA is not the source of every fucked-up
> > education fad that's come down the pike the last 30 years?
> >
>
> It is not.
>
> > >
> > > > > 4) So the only way to improve US education is to privatize it, moving
> > > > > _away_ from the way more successful countries do things.
> > > >
> > > > No..the way to improve the US schools is to get the kids OUT of the
> > > > control of those who seek to make sure that they are incapable of
> > > > learning anything on their own.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Who do you htink passed the laws and policies governing education today?
> > > The NEA doesnt pass laws. It doesn make educational policy.
> >
> > Ever notice how the NEA got the school elections moved to a different
> > day from the general elections? That way, they can make sure that
> > *their people* are disproportionately represented at the polls.
> >
>
> What? Where does this happen?
Everywhere that I have ever lived.
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Are we supposed to take you seriously?
> > > >
> > > > Open your eyes, blind man.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Take your own advice.
> > >
>
> --
>
> Rick
>
> * To email me remove theobvious from my address *
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Darren Wyn Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Shitty MLM Award for Linux Mandrake
Date: 11 Sep 2000 23:01:30 GMT
Of all the Linux distributions, I think Linux Mandrake deserve a special
award for running what must be the shittiest MLM ever invented.
I refer, of course, to the MLM managing the public 'support' lists Linux
Mandrake organise, eg. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've got no problem with the content of the list, it's just the MLM that
delivers the mail... adding headers infuckingconsistently, willy nilly
(so it seems).
--
Darren Wyn Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ASK your ISP to ADD the NEW england.* Newsgroups
http://www.england.news-admin.org/accessfaq.html
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
