Linux-Advocacy Digest #74, Volume #29 Tue, 12 Sep 00 16:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years
Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a (Mike Byrns)
Re: Metcalfe on Linux
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How low can they go...?
Re: Notes Client for Linux or dropping Domino? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows+Linux=True
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Computer and memory (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Computer and memory (Matthias Warkus)
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:34:30 GMT
On 10 Sep 2000 13:47:10 GMT, JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Linux developers are copying off
>> of the $millions of research Microsoft did to develop the
>> Win95 interface to make it efficient and conducive to
>> productivity.
>
>So who cares?? M$ copied the GUI off Apple who had originally copied it from
>Xerox. Along with the mouse. Stop your bitchin
I originally liked the Win95 interface not because it was something
"new and innovative" from Microsloth but because it borrowed things
I liked from X and MacOS.
Now the Lemmnings are trying to take ownership of things that infact
appeared in Unix first with slight visual differences relative to
their WinDOS clones.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:42:08 -0500
Shocktrooper wrote:
> "Peter Ammon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Shocktrooper wrote:
> > >
> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:aCAu5.464$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > "Peter Ammon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In general, I hate toolbars. They take up lots of screen space, the
> > > > > icons are generally unfathomable and require hovering the mouse over
> > > > > them to see what they do, and they're usually no faster than a menu
> > > > > choice, since they're such a small target. They only work effectively
> > > > > in web browsers...and I assume the dock in OS X will add to that list.
> > > >
> > > > Toobar buttons are designed for speeding up certain activities. Those
> > > > activitieis still occur on the menu if you are so included (in most cases),
> > > > but once you become familiar enough with the application and know what the
> > > > buttons do then they can make you more productive.
> > > >
> > > > In other words, they don't slow you down if you don't know them, since you
> > > > can just as easily hit the menu. But they can speed you up since you need
> > > > not open a menu, track through the menu (and possible submenus) to get to a
> > > > function.
> > >
> > > I can't believe anyone who has ever used configurable toolbar's has ever
>actually sat down and used one for a while on an
> applicatio
> > > they regularly use.
> >
> > ...were you drunk when you wrote this? :)
> >
> > > Once you learn them, it becomes *highly frustrating* to not be able ot use them!.
> >
> > It always amazes me how differently people use the interface options.
> > Some people prefer to switch apps using the menu, others using
> > command-tab, others by clicking in windows, and I use ApplWindows.
>
> That's the entire point actually.
>
> How would you like it if someone marched in, declared the method that YOU choose to
>use "ineffecient" and then removed it from the
> next OS release?
>
> I don't care how long Job's can go on and on about a single top menu bar and a
>single button mouse being superior. I prefer working
> with customizable control pallets that I can place anywhere, with a dual
>button/scroll wheel mouse.
>
> It ought not be up to the programmer to decide how you work..
Agree. And whatever "research" that Apple ever did to "prove" anything is sadly
outdated and has been rendered questionable with all
the changes that have occurred to people's usage patterns since they've been
introduced to larger screens, scroll mice, web
interfaces, etc. Heck, Tog is even doing Web interface now. He rips on the Mac GUI
almost as much as Windows, particularly anything
new they come out with (Sherlock, QuickTime, Aqua). I think what it boils down to is
that the original Apple HIG purists want us to
believe that they were so Godlike as to have gotten it perfect the first time and that
no matter what changes thier way will always be
the best. I contend that all interface rules were rewritten at the same time the Web
reformed desktop computing.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Metcalfe on Linux
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:41:44 GMT
On 7 Sep 2000 22:34:40 GMT, Marshall Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Metcalfe, a columnist at www.infoworld.com who's resigning soon --
>and one of the leading figures in Internet history -- said on "The Diane
>Rehm Show" recently that Linux "doesn't do much" besides running Internet
>servers on PC's, if I heard correctly.
> I've spent many long and frustrating hours trying to figure out what
>Linux is all about, and might have gone on indefinitely if I hadn't heard
>this bit of information.
> Is it true?
Nope. Unix, the family of OSes to which Linux belongs, had fully
functional GUIs before Microsoft product did. Infact, some of the
desktop elements in Windows 9x are modified versions of things
that previously existed in X. Things like serious 3D visualization,
video effects production, videoconferencing and graphical web
browsers were developed under Unix before migrating to WinDOS based
PC's.
Traditionally, Unix/Linux machines have run more powerful hardware
better capable of doing various computationally intensive things.
This includes things like realtime video and graphical interfaces.
Also, as a matter of pure computing theory: any application that can
run on Windows can also run on any other OS. The only limitation is
programmer resources.
Alpha Centauri and Sim City 3000 are currently in the last stages
of beta testing for Linux. Soldier of Fortune and Decent 3 were
also just released.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:53:23 GMT
Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>> Here's today's Malloy digest. Interestingly, he still didn't respond to the
>> proof of his continuing lies. He hit the 200 postings-since-late-May level.
> No one cares, Tholen.
You apparently do.
> No one is listening to you or him.
You apparently are. I would be interested to know how you managed to
make that determination about everyone else. If nobody was listening
to Malloy, why would he continue?
> If you're worried that his posts are somehow harming your reputation,
> I'd argue that everyones so sick of it that they've stopped listening.
You can argue about it all you want, but substantiation is the way to go.
> Why don't both of you take your bickering match somewhere else ?
I tried ignoring Malloy for over a year. He didn't stop posting
replies to anything he could find. He even started showing up in
other newsgroups, just to find postings of mine to which he could
respond. The *.advocacy groups were created to keep the noise out
of other newsgroups, therefore by keeping Malloy here, they are
serving their intended purpose.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:52:24 GMT
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:03:41 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Jim Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Uhh.. Linux did not implement Plug-n-Play until the 2.0 kernel IIRC.
>Even
>> >today, Linux still does not implement Plug-n-play in the way it's
>intended
>> >to be (plug in a USB or PCMCIA card and have it prompt you for drivers,
>> >rather than forcing a manual driver install and load).
>>
>> Odd, I swap out PCMCIA cards all the time on my linux laptop. In fact,
>> when the machine was a dual-boot with win/98 (it was my wife's machine at
>the
>> time) plugging in a new PCMCIA 10baseT card caused windows to bitch about
>> needing a new driver, linux? it simply autoloaded the driver and continued
>on
>> without a hiccup. Now, I only have 2 USB devices, a handspring Visor, and
>a
>> Fuji digicam, but neither have given me any trouble under linux. Can't say
>for
>> any M$ system as I don't use them.
>
>And what happened the first time you plugged in the PCMCIA card? Nothing,
>right? You had to manually install the driver for it, correct?
Why? If the card was supported at the time he installed his
version of Linux than the drivers were already there in the
system and fully loaded into the system during the install
process (unlike WinDOS does things).
[deletia]
Similarly, I had to install no driver for my Voodoo3. Bughat
just detected the device changes on the next reboot, activated
the already present driver and then prompted me to reconfigure
my video options.
This is one of the nice things about your OS vendor
not having piracy on the brain.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:55:19 GMT
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 21:37:08 +1000, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 05:48:45 GMT, R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><snip many inaccuracies some covered by other posters>
>>
>>The fact is that Microsoft's worst fears are being realized as we
>>speak. Linux is growing and thriving and being joined by other UNIX
>>flavors. Compaq's IPAQ can run Linux, AOL now offers most of it's
>>features to Linux users, and many OEMs are now offering "TuxTops" and
>>"TuxStations" (Linux enabled laptops and workstations).
>
>How is Linux thriving ?
>
>I am heavily involved in computing and almost no-one I know uses Linux
>for general computing.
>
>The are a few iMac users in my circle, invariably not "techo" type
>people.
>
>What is the business model for all these Linux companies, Support ?
>Many big companies don't need much external support, they have huge IT
>departments which could do this if they ever went to Linux on the
>desktop.
>
>I don't get how Linux can prosper in the business world, where making
>money is the goal. Whether that is right or wrong is another
>discussion.
Linux doesn't need to "prosper". However, it can be perpetuated
merely due to the fact that it saves it's users money. Now, while
software monopolies might infact make their owners absurdly wealthy
they also deprive everyone else of capital and there are a lot more
customers than producers.
Thus, prices tend towards their marginal production value when exchange
is occuring in a perfectly free market without anything to adversely
effect elasicity of demand.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:58:03 GMT
Jim "our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM" Stuyck writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Still having attribution problems, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM)?
> [he knows who he is...he will respond to this message,
I recognize my text, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
> sure as the sun will rise in the morning from the east
Not at the South Pole, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
> -- watch him quibble over that remark, too!]
Watch you make the remark, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
>> Here's today's Malloy digest. Interestingly, he still didn't respond to the
>> proof of his continuing lies. He hit the 200 postings-since-late-May level.
> Let's see, "200 postings-since-late-May level" works out to, roughly,
> 50-50 postings per month.
In other words, more than one a day. So much for the digest concept,
Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
> Here, in the newsgroup I follow -- comp.os.os2.advocacy -- our-very-own-
> twice-elected-KOTM
Still having attribution problems, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM)?
> (you know who your are!)
Talking to yourself, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM)?
> has 75 postings-since-late-SUNDAY level,
Those are not all responses to Malloy,
Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
> which works out to roughly 1500 (one thousand, five hundred) postings
> per month of *his* continuing lies
What alleged lies, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM)?
> ("I reply to your postings with lies and misinformation").
Which is exactly the kind of posting of yours that I'm responding to
now, Stuyck (our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM).
> Hypocrite.
How ironic, coming from the person engaging in the lowest form of
discussion.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:57:41 GMT
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:24:46 +1000, Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8pbra2$gej$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:39b4ec37$0$26553$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> > Windows is fairly priced, when you compare it to *comparable* products.
>>
>> What qualifies as *comparable* products to various versions of Windows.
>> For pricing comparison and what do they cost in relations to the price of
>> the matching Windows version?
>
>OS/2 would have been (Possibly still is, if the client version is around) a
OS/2 would have been SUPIERIOR product actually, somewhat like
comparing the price of a Cadillac to a Yugo.
>match - it certainly *used* to cost about the same as Windows. MacOS would
>be a good candidate for comparison upgarde pricing, which is also about the
>same.
MacOS is still a superset of WinDOS when it comes to considerations
of the actual novice end user.
Futhermore, WinDOS benefits of considerably better economies of scale
than OS/2 or MacOS ever had.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.groupware.lotus-notes.misc
Subject: Re: Notes Client for Linux or dropping Domino?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:46:30 GMT
Isn't Domino the server and Notes the client? in which case he's right,
there is no native client for Linux. Notes R5 will install under
relatively current releases of Wine, but its still less than fully
functional.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Windows+Linux=True
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:02:32 GMT
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:19:11 GMT, Ingemar Lundin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>well...95% of computer owners using a GUI based OS (Mac and Windows) doesnt
>seem to think that using a mouse is too difficult...did you teach 3rd grade
>drop-outs?
Of course they don't think it too difficult now. They've already
gotten over the learning curve. However, they were total newbies
once with no preconcieved notions of what an OS should be and no
intuitive feel for how fast a double-click is.
[deletia]
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:07:27 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >Unfortunately, IE 5.5 broke several COM behavior contracts. Bugs have
been
> >filed in their databases on them after long talks with QA people there...
> >but it would appear unlikely that they'll be fixed *sigh*.
> [...]
> >Ummm... how do you bind to this? (cough) might be useful. Any links to
any
> >docs? I've not found any yet myself.
>
> Don't tell me we're making a disbeliever of you, Simon. Won't Erik get
> lonely?
Supercilious bastard. I investigated the spell checker myself a couple of
months ago for a project I was working on, and I recently got stung by the
COM interface problem with IE5.5.
So ... in other words... you're not making *anything* of me.
Simon
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:51:15 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:57:16 -0700...
...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Correction: The US posters do not only produce more arrogant and
> > >idiotic postings that all of the European posters. They produce more
> > >of then that all other posters together, and I estimate that, in
> > >international groups like this, the amount of US bullshit is at least
> > >thrice the amount of rest-of-the-world bullshit.
> >
> > Well the fact that the Americans are allowed to post in their first
> > language but the Europeans are not lowers the bar somewhat for the
> > AMericans. The insular Europeans rarely get to post in the first place.
>
> There are also newgroups such as de.* fr.* fj.* it.* in which the standard
> language is not English. That levels the field a bit and it would be
> nessary to examine the contents of those newgroups as well before such a
> blanket statement as "more blathering and totally idiotic statements out of
> US connected people than out of the European connected
> people." can be made.
I know de.* from the insides, and following observations can be made,
comparing de.* with the Big Eight:
- German-language posters are very rude with respect to formal criteria, such
as crossposting to off-topic groups, bizarre encodings, all-capital
or all-lowercase postings etc.
- The signal-to-noise ratio in de.* is much, much higher
- In de.* groups, in de.* Linux groups even, the usual USAmerican
noise such as discussions about libertarianism, gun control,
communism, taxation, car analogies and getting laid simply does NOT
happen
- On average, de.* posters seem slightly more competent than Big Eight
posters
- There aren't half as many high-volume posters such as Jedi or R.E.
Ballard
- Nearly nobody posts under a pseudonym, because non-real-name posters
get flamed to death. Thus, there is no "Steve". In fact, there are
no sock puppets at all.
- German-language posters are generally better at expressing
themselves, mastering grammar, spelling correctly and being polite
than American English-language posters (no surprise, because a lot
of Germans speak better English than most Americans)
I don't want to overgeneralise, but I suppose at least some of these
traits are common to all European Usenet hierarchies. We've got some
arrogant U.S. idiots in here who are probably going to argue that this
is because only the rich and/or highly educated in Europe can post to
Usenet due to our low ratio of Internet connections.
Dream on. We're not some kind of Third World country. IIRC the ratio
of Internet-connected Germans, for one, has reached .5 many months ago
and has since then far surpassed it.
mawa
--
Warkus' Law of non-24/7 workstation operation:
1. When you boot your workstation in a hurry, at least one filesystem
will force an fsck.
2. The filesystems checked will always be the largest ones.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:52:01 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:32:34 GMT...
...and Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Matthias Warkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Correction: The US posters do not only produce more arrogant and
> > idiotic postings that all of the European posters.
>
> So says you.
ROTFLMAO. Talk about Americans trying to speak English.
mawa
--
Witness Einstein, his habit, the incredible chaos of his desk at
Princeton, his horrible accent -- witness the NASA scientists imported
after WW2. This is why till the present day, "rocket scientists" with
a heavy German accent remain, to the American, the essence of science.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:11:31 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Yes, we all know its better to tie your HTML code to using only
> >> Microsoft's browser. Idiot. I'm getting bored.
> >
> >Hmmm...
> >
> >Quicken is a Windows app; so they may as well tie it to Microsoft's
browser,
> >as it's the only one out there that provides programmable interfaces
(other
> >than Gecko, which is still a work-in-progress).
>
> Well, the Quicken that made Intuit successful was a DOS app, as a matter
> of fact.
So? A DOS app is *really* going to sell well in today's market, isn't it
Max? I thought we were talking about today, rather than past tense.
[Being able to auto-update and push/pull content using the browser embedded
in the app]
> Yes, we know that this kind of stupid idea encourages developer's to be
> lazy and not ensure that their products would be acceptable in a
> competitive market; that isn't the point.
Max, you've just proved (again) that you're a fuckwit.
> This means they don't have any ability to make their interface any more
> efficient than a web page. That's all there is to it. They are
> *supposed* to worry about displaying graphics, and fonts, and printing.
> What the fuck do you think we're paying them for? Maintaining financial
> data in a database ain't quite rocket science. And I'd prefer to use an
> application, rather than an 'integrated web site'. I don't pay people
> to provide them a marketing channel. They provide the channel for free,
> or they pay me; no other option exists.
You seemingly ignored where I said that you can override the behavior of all
elements.
> If I wanted live information, I'd pay a service to provide it reliably.
> And in a format that is operationally functional. People use Quicken to
> balance their checkbooks; all that other fluff is simply justification
> for badly designed. "No, you can't do that, but, hey, look at our cool
> web page!"
>
> >IE lets you bind code directly to every element on a page. [...]
>
> IE lets you tie yourself to an illegal monopoly which attempts to
> further monopolize other markets, and restrain trade, as well.
You're a fuckwit who is completely ignoring the arguments.
(1) The Quicken pages don't work like a webpage because they're written
their own custom behavior for their elements.
(2) You're a FUCKWIT. Get used to it.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:11:55 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> You honestly haven't a clue, Erik, just how far and wide my knowledge
> >> and information are on this or any other technical subject.
> >
> >Do you know the difference between interpolation, extrapolation, and
factual
> >analysis, Max?
>
> Yes, why?
Because you do a lot of extrapolation without any factual analysis.
Simon
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:10:36 GMT
On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:03:06 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>> >
>> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:57:23 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> > > > >Rick wrote:
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > > >> ***WE*** do not.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Oh, really. Then why do American high school students' science and math
>> > > > >scores ABSOLUTELY SUCK compared to the rest of the industrialized world,
>> > > > >including such backwards places as Russia.
>> > > >
>> > > > I thought we'd already discussed this.
>> > > >
>> > > > If you want to make meaningful comparisons between the performance of
>> > > > American and Russian *high schools*, you obviously need to control
>> > > > for the ability of the incoming students.
>> > >
>> > > Since said *ability* of American students is significantly held down
>> > > in junior high, the comparisons are meaningless.
>> > >
>> >
>> > So, education expert, please explain tracking of students ... "high
>> > school", university, vocational school, then tell me which of those
>> > stuydents are tested using "standard" acedemic tests and compre the
>> > tracking/testing of other countries to that of the US.
>>
>> In practically every other country (and the US up until the 1970's),
>> it was common to track students FROM ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
>>
>> I was in fast-track classes up until attending Purdue...and then
>> taking engineering at Purdue...the entire SCHOOL is fast track.
>>
>
>That was still no where near what is being done in other countries.
>
>> >
>> > I will give you a clue. In the US, public schools (through secondary)
>> > have an open enrollment policy. Everyone goes. Most public colleges have
>> > a more or less open enrollment.
>>
>> That's still no excuse for putting the smart kids and the idiots
>> in the same room, and expecting them to all learn at the same rate.
>>
>
>You have real problem with equal rights, dont you. Have you ever heard
>of discrimination?
Discrimination based on ability is in no way counter to
to the notions of liberty and equality.
[deletia]
Infact, subjecting the children of the working poor to squander their
potential languishing in the same glorified juvenile detention centers
as their counterparts with no ability or no motivation is what is
genuinely counter to American notions of equality and upward mobility.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
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