Linux-Advocacy Digest #92, Volume #29 Wed, 13 Sep 00 10:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. (Roberto
Alsina)
Re: Win2K ("Adam Warner")
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! ("Chad Myers")
Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised.... ("David Brown")
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! ("Chad Myers")
Re: How low can they go...? ("JS/PL")
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800 (Marty)
Re: Win2K ("Nathan Crause")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E.
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:10:54 -0300
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>
> Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > >
> > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > > > >
> > > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > > > I honestly have no idea of what you are talking about. Maybe I am
> > > > > > forgetting something, but I have no idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > While this may seem to be a minor issue on the surface, but your
> failure
> > > of
> > > > > mentioning it does make it seem as though you are again being less
> that
> > > > > forthcomming in you facts.
> > > >
> > > > Or, amazingly, I had no idea MieTerra was providing (as you describe
> > > > below) a <gasp> search form for kde.org!
> > > > I bet there is an evil conspiracy here. And not only that, but
> > > > they left me out of it! The bastards!
> > >
> > > To not know this it would mean that you don't use the search engine at
> all.
> >
> > Never had, until you mentioned it.
> >
> > > Yet, you recommend others to use it stating would they would find with
> it.
> >
> > Nope. Never had, either. Abstain from saying I did things I didn't do,
> > please.
>
> You *have* this very day.
>
> You told Max in relations to www.kde.org: 'There is such a thing as "search
> in page", you know.'
"search in page" is something in the netscape menu that you access with
Ctrl+F, not the KDE search form!
So no, I didn't say it.
> > > That would imply that you are familiar enough with the search engine
> from a
> > > users perpective to know would would be found by using it. Just because
> a
> > > datum is on the webstie does not mean that it would be located by the
> search
> > > engine.
> >
> > You are just making this up. I never told anyone to use the KDE
> > website's
> > search engine.
>
> You *have* this very day.
>
> You told Max in relations to www.kde.org: 'There is such a thing as "search
> in page", you know.'
You got it wrong.
> > > > > Your behavior seems to make it seem as though
> > > > > you may feel there is something to hide considering you simple
> dismisal
> > > of
> > > > > the KDE.org connection. You make it seem that KDE.org is totally
> > > sepperate
> > > > > operation by someone who *REALLY* likes KDE and sells KDE T-Shirts
> from
> > > a
> > > > > domain with the name of KDE.org and he has also hired some KDE
> > > developers.
> > > >
> > > > You mean kde.com?
> > >
> > > Yes, an example of how easy it is to confuse kde.org and kde.com.
> >
> > You are the only person I've seen confused about it.
> >
> > > > And yes, AFAIK, that *is* a totally separate
> > > > operation by someone who *REALLY* likes KDE and sells KDE T-shirts
> from
> > > > a domain with the name of KDE.COM (not org) and he has hired some
> > > > KDE developers (in the past, I don't know if he is hiring anyone now).
> > > >
> > > > What makes you say it is not? Just because I should have added
> > > > "and provides a search form for our website"? A search form
> > > > I knew nothing about and simply had no reason to hide if I did?
> > >
> > > Except that you have admitted that you fail to mention thing when asked
> that
> > > would tend to cast doubt on your position.
> >
> > I can't parse that. Please write in english.
>
> It is plain enough.
I don't understand it.
> > > > You are making amountain out of a molehill.
> > >
> > > As I said, "this may seem to be a minor issue on the surface".
> >
> > It just is a minor issue.
>
> I did qualify my posting of the information that it could appear so.
I am not saying it appears so, I say it is so.
> > > > Apparently. Didn't knew this. You see, I have not been
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > for about 2.5 years. I do know that we can't have a search form in
> > > > kde.org because of our hosting agreement (no CGIs)
> > >
> > > Nor am I the webmaster for kde.org either and yet I detected the
> situation.
> >
> > Because for some reason you are in inquisitor mode.
>
> Relax, I am not from the Holy Office.
But you act as if you were.
> > > > > Entering your first name in the text box on
> > > http://www.kde.org/search.html
> > > > > results in the request being redirected to this URL.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.kde.com/websites/search.php?q=Roberto&id=www.kde.org&ssites%5B%5D
> > > > > =www.kde.org&noSecCookieLogon=true
> > > > >
> > > > > That show a precise knowledge by that page on www.kde.org of the
> input
> > > > > requirements of the www.kde.com search engine.
> > > >
> > > > Well, duh! If we gonna use their search script, we better know how to
> > > > call it.
> > > > Would be pretty useless otherwise.
> > >
> > > No, not true, you could use a link to their search page and from there
> the
> > > user can interact with the search engine rather than taking a change
> that a
> > > change to the search engine would cause the search request entered on
> > > www.kde.org/search to fail--unless there is some coordination be done be
> the
> > > two webmasters.
> >
> > Of course there is coordination. "hey, [EMAIL PROTECTED], want to
> > use this search form? Yeah sure!" is coordination, I guess.
>
> As well as "what is the format of the URL to request a search so I can setup
> a prompt for the search term on my web page to communicate directly with
> your search engine?"
Sure. Or rather, "ok, here's how to use it" right after "Yeah sure!".
> > > > > Or www.kde.org has to know the
> > > > > precise contents of all the pages and documents as well as their
> URL's.
> > > > > The method used at www.kde.com appears to be the second of these two
> > > conditions
> > > > > since in fact the URL of the page retrieved when clicking on the
> > > document
> > > > > list return from the search is located in on the www.kde.org website
> > > >
> > > > You must be really ignorant about web programming ;-)
> > > > I have no idea how it's implemented, but here's my guess:
> > >
> > > No, I am an experienced webmaster, as such, I know how easy it is to
> break a
> > > search or other CGI services access on your page when it needs internal
> > > knowledge of the operations of an alien website and there is no
> coordination
> > > between those running the two sites.
> >
> > www.kde.org needs no internal knowledge beyond asking kde.com
> > how to call the form, and saying "let me know if you change it".
>
> Correct, an on going coordination.
If you want to use such a term.
> > kde.com needs no internal knowledge of kde.org at all.
> >
> > > > www.kde.org passes the query term and the site to be searched.
> > >
> > > Needing kde.org to know how KDE.com requires the search request URL
> > > formatted
> >
> > Well, duh. You know, I didn't say that the webmasters never wrote
> > to each other.
>
> Correct, coordination.
> >
> > > > www.kde.com has a copy of each site (they are all public).
> > > > www.kde.com searches in it's local copy.
> > > > www.kde.com generates the URL as relative from www.kde.org
> > > > (that's just a subst in "/the/place/where/I/have/them/whatever.html"
> > > > to "http://www.kde.org/whatever.html", no rocket science).
> > >
> > > No, not rocket science, it is computer science.
> >
> > It's colloquial for simple.
>
> I understand that, however, you are glossing over too much.
Not really.
> > > > www.kde.com gives you a page with those links.
> > > >
> > > > At least that's the way I would do it.
> > >
> > > If that is how you would implement it, no wonder you are not the
> webmaster
> > > for kde.org anymore.
> >
> > Any better suggestions?
>
> Build a local index of valid search terms within in the documents. So that
> the search engine would not waste user time while searching all the contents
> of all documents includeing html tags, white space, punctuation, and useless
> words.
You never heard of ht:/dig?
> > > > > Since this search service is performed for The KDE project's website
> by
> > > > > KDE.org
> > > >
> > > > I suppose you mean kde.com.
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > Then be more careful writing, I am not here to correct you.
>
> Why are you here?
That's for me to know, and for you not to care.
> > > > > with the full knowledge of the project's webmaster, I find it
> > > > > strange that KDE.org or Mieterra is not listed on
> > > > > http://www.kde.org/credits.html as one of the sponsers or some other
> > > similar
> > > > > notation of providing service to the project. Of course the KDE
> project
> > > > > would not list itself or a part of itself as a sponser which lends
> > > support
> > > > > to the idea that KDE.org may have a closer affliation with the
> project
> > > than
> > > > > just another sponsoring organizations.
> > >
> > > > No, credits.html is (AFAIK), used mostly for actual parts of KDE.
> > > > I believe thanks.html would be more adequate, since that is where
> > > > sponsors
> > > > of this kind usually go.
> > >
> > > There is no listing for either MieTerra or KDE.com on www.kde.org/thanks
> .
> >
> > Not yet. I just sent the email a few moments ago.
> >
> > > > For example, there you have "Many thanks to Trolltech for helping out
> > > > with
> > > > our DNS registration and admin. Also, thanks to Linpro for giving us
> > > > free
> > > > use of a virtual WWW server. "
> > >
> > > Trolltech is listed on both the www.kde.org/thanks and
> > > www.kde.org/credits.html pages.
> >
> > You are right, I will ask MieTerra to be added at credits.html, too.
> >
> > > > I'll write to webmaster to add Mieterra there. That page has been
> > > > neglected
> > > > lately. In fact, I recall a message in the CVS list a couple days ago
> > > > about an update to it, saying it needed more attention.
> > >
> > > It was last updated on September 7, 2000. That is the version I had
> > > examined.
> >
> > Just as I said.
>
> Yes, as you have said, "That page has been neglected" when the truth was
> that it was last updated on September 7, 2000.
"I recall a message in the CVS list a couple days ago about an update to
it".
I said that, IIRC, on september 9. Look, I said there was an update on
sept. 7! Please read what I write.
[snip part with no new text]
> > > > > > Cut the crap and speak clearly instead of acting like some Flash
> > > > > > Gordon serial.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you assaulting the reputation of <Gasp!> Lawrence Crabbe?
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, Buster.
> > >
> > > Well, if you see me as Flash Gordon and you consider me to be a problem,
> > > then who does that make you? Emperor Ming of Mango?
> >
> > "stop acting like a flash gordon serial". Not "stop acting like
> > flash gordon". Important difference.
>
> How can a human ack like a serial? A human can act like a character in the
> serial but not the serial itself.
The mechanism of the serial was to always end with a suspense builder.
Will Flash die in the pit of death? Will mjcr show something beyond a
search form I didn't know? Ok, like the author of the serial, I guess.
> > > > > > Before? Are you saying I have lied to you? What the fuck are you
> > > > > > talking about exactly?
> > > > >
> > > > > For one instance when it was made it clear that you did not work for
> > > > > Trolltech. I asked you, "Is there any member of the KDE Project
> working
> > > for
> > > > > Troll Tech?"; you answerd "No".
> > > >
> > > > I never said that AFAIR. If I did, it should be trivial for you to
> > > > post a quote. I am 100% sure I didn't. I believe you must
> > > > be confused and will have to apologize. Either that, or
> > > > I was drunk while posting.
> > >
> > > Yes, it is easy to do. Here it is:
> >
> > Could you provide any reference I can verify? At least the message-ID.
> >
> > HOWEVER, I find no such post anywhere:
>
> Can you not locate it on your news server?
Not here, not on dejanews. Since you have located it, can you provide
the message-ID? Is it a real post?
> > http://x65.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=661519995
> >
> > will show you the 2-before post (the one with "net/sys" in it).
> >
> > http://x65.deja.com/=dnc/viewthread.xp?AN=661519995
> >
> > Shows the thread, and shows that there were no messages in
> > reply to that one.
> >
> > I will not say you are lying, but please give me the message-ID.
> >
> > In fact, I can't find no article posted by you that contains
> > the word "stalling", so please also give me the Message-ID for
> > your post.
> >
> > If I did say that, I will apologize, because I was obviously wrong.
> >
> > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > > > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > "T. Max Devlin" escribió:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Ok, no?" I've already said that. Why are you stalling? You
> > > know I'm
> > > > > > > > not going to give up, and others will provide 'alternative'
> > > explanations
> > > > > > > > whether you do or not. So give it up: what *are* you seeking
> to
> > > make
> > > > > > > > money on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My job. used to make the money as a net/sys admin at college.
> > > > > > > Now I make it as technical director for a company.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I doubt they're paying your salary through philanthropic
> > > > > > > > sentiment.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indeed I work for my money, just not on KDE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From this and from a better worded reply by Dononan I take it the
> you
> > > > > > are not an employee of Troll Tech; however, are any other members
> of
> > > > > > the KDE Project employees of Troll Tech?
> > > > >
> > > > > No
> > > >
> > > > Is there any other connections between Troll Tech and the KDE Project;
> or
> > > > the members of the KDE Project and Troll Tech?
> >
> > --
> > Roberto Alsina (KDE developer, MFCH)
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2K
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:03:07 +1200
Dear Nathan,
Please post to the newsgroup. I will see your posts if you reply here.
You are very misguided if you think Win2k can only multitask as badly as
Windows 3.1.
Also, "And if an application DOES crash, it may not hang your machine, but
it does bring down EXPLORER (the lovely Win interface)" is not equivalent to
saying that a specific application, MS InterDev, will bring down explorer if
it crashes.
I any sorry to hear of your experiences. If you are looking for specific
Windows 2000 application support you might like to try the Microsoft
newsgroups.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:11:00 GMT
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In otherwords SuperRoot held by MS and its "trusted" partners. Otherwise
> you couldn't apply service packs which, on occasion, do replace SYSTEM
> functionality. For MS service packs to *do* anything, they have to have
> access at a higher level than granted to administrator. Getting that
> access does not require the presence of a live human being, just putting
> a disk in the CD.
What the hell are you talking about?
All service packs do is replace files.
NT/2k has a system where, if a system file is in use and you want
to replace, you can make a few registry entries and they will be replaced
upon next reboot. No "SuperRoot", no special permissions, an admin logged
on as "Administrator" could make the registry entries by hand. Nothing
special.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: ZDNet reviews W2K server; I think you'll be surprised....
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:08:05 +0200
David Sidlinger wrote in message <8pnouc$edf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>"Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> It was supposed to be. MS was supposed to unifying their OS product
>> lines. I think that was even the reason for the name change (from NT5
>> to 2k).
>>
>Win2K was never supposed to be the OS that merged the "consumer" and
>"business" product lines. That is being left up to Project "Whistler".
>Which I believe is slated to come out next year, but, knowing MSFT, will
>come out early 2002.
Win2K was very much supposed to be the OS that merged the lines. In fact,
NT 4.0 was supposed to be the OS that merged the lines. Every time a new
Dos+Win is announced, the claim is that it will be the last one before the
merger. Every time a new NT is announced, the claim is that this one will
merge the lines (i.e., it will run newer versions of DirectX and modern
games - that is the only thing there is really a problem with).
With each newly announced version, MS try harder to persuade people that
this time the really mean it - last time round the announcement of the
merger was really only a future plan.
If you believe the merger will come with Whistler, and that w2k was not
supposed to be a merger product, then you have fallen for the propeganda
hook, line and sinker.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:12:12 GMT
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Nik Simpson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Meet me face to face and we will discuss it. I live in Arizona, but
can
> > > > > meet either here or in Las Vegas.
> > > >
> > > > Chicken, consider your bluff well and truly called! Why on Earth should
I
> > > > travel to Arizona to obtain a mysterious piece of software that you
believe
> > > > will trash my system. If it exists at all, zip it up and email it to me,
it
> > > > can't be that big.
> >
> > > Because I don't know you and I have seen too many script kiddies who
> > > might use the code to do damage. If you can satisfy me that you are only
> > > going to crash your own system, I will give you the name of the book
> > > where the code has been published. It caused a big flap six or seven
> > > years ago when it was first published. Nice to see nothing has been
> > > fixed in all that time.
> >
> > n1/<, Ph33R h1Z l33Tn355. h3'Z 4 m4s3t3R H4x0R 4nD j0o B3tTa pH33R
> > h1S l33t B10S h4x tH4t 0nLy m4g1c4llY w3rx 0n NT.
> >
> > Remember, PCs running Linux don't have a BIOS, so they're not
> > vulnerable to the types of BIOS problems that mere regular
> > PCs have.
> >
> > -Chad
<snip drivel about Linux's kernel being 1-200K and completely
worthless>
> But about the BIOS. Linux only needs the BIOS to launch LILO. You will
> admit that even NT uses BIOS at boot. If you can trick the OS into
> jumping into BIOS on crash instead doing HALT, what a coup.
"trick the OS into jumping into BIOS on crash instead of doing HLT"
jumping into BIOS?
Do YOU even know what the hell you're talking about?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:14:00 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Want some credibility Max?
> >Stop USING windows to BASH windows, dumb ass.
>
> I'm a big fan of bash, actually. The only reason I can see that
> Microsoft doesn't make it a standard part of Windows is that it provides
> too much interoperability and might threaten their monopoly.
Please expound on your knowledge of bash, so far I see none.
And it doesn't change the fact that you are ironically supporting Windows
with each post in which you are attempting to bash windows.
Your like a guy that shows up at a "Bash the Japanese Cars Rally" in a
Toyota.
> Want some credibility, 'JS/PL'? Get yourself a real name, dickhead.
I told you - it's John Smith the patent lawyer, now write it down.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451800
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:28:37 GMT
Dave "Fozzy" Tholen wrote:
>
> Marty writes:
>
> >> Jim "our-very-own-twice-elected-KOTM" Stuyck writes:
>
> > Why not pick a more unique name, like "Fozzy" or "Kermit"?
>
> Stuyck wanted to be addressed by his title, Marty. I'm simply
> following his lead, and he hasn't used either of those.
I'd like to be addressed by you as "Fozzy". Are you now going to follow my
lead?
------------------------------
From: "Nathan Crause" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2K
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:42:15 +0200
I didn't actually post to this group for support (I have more than enough
support at work) but to mention my own personal bad experience with an OS
which I was led to believe would be more stable for me to program under.
And I'm sorry, but I simply have to stand by my statement that it multitasks
VERY poorly. Access something on the network (yes, using Win2K servers) and
EVERYTHING halts DEAD until that single process finally completes. This is
NOT good multitasking. I could understand if I was working with multiple
applications all accessing the network, but this is not so. I could even
understand this if I was running sub-standard hardware, but a Pentium III
550MHz with 160MB RAM should be more than enough
As I stated before, my experience extends to several machines, installed by
several DIFFERENT people, most of which are "trained" in that sort of thing,
so the issue of a faulty installation is no longer an issue. Perhaps I am
just too demanding on the machine (I don't just use it for word processing
and spread-sheets), but this then still leaves me wanting an OS which can
deal with the obvious pressures I place on the PC.
Now, it's very important that you understand that I'm not a "Bill-hater". I
actually rather prefer IE to Netscape (since Navigator seems to have a
memory leak as soon as you start using more than one Window, and IE supports
more tags and JavaScript than Navigator). I'm just not crazy about MS
promising things and coming up well short.
Oh, and my comment about the lovely Win interface was serious. On Linux, KDE
comes close to being a nice GUI, but they still have a long way to go to get
to the pure simple functionality of Win. I mean, try a cut and paste between
Linux apps - no such support. Small issue, but valuable non-the-less.
I think I've rambled enough.
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8pntuc$rdu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Dear Nathan,
>
> Please post to the newsgroup. I will see your posts if you reply here.
>
> You are very misguided if you think Win2k can only multitask as badly as
> Windows 3.1.
>
> Also, "And if an application DOES crash, it may not hang your machine, but
> it does bring down EXPLORER (the lovely Win interface)" is not equivalent
to
> saying that a specific application, MS InterDev, will bring down explorer
if
> it crashes.
>
> I any sorry to hear of your experiences. If you are looking for specific
> Windows 2000 application support you might like to try the Microsoft
> newsgroups.
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
>
------------------------------
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