Linux-Advocacy Digest #224, Volume #29 Wed, 20 Sep 00 00:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) (WickedDyno)
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools (WickedDyno)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:58:26 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WickedDyno wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > WickedDyno wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > WickedDyno wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers
> > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > wrote in part:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : The Earth is a system of balances. If one thing gets out
> > > > > > > > : of
> > > > > > > > : whack,
> > > > > > > > : 10 other things compensate to restore the balance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is true of market economies also.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The problem is that it can take a really long time (from
> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > perspective at least) for the damage to be corrected.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : This has been happening over billions of years. Many more
> > > > > > > > : catastrophic
> > > > > > > > : things have happened to the ecosystem that Humans could
> > > > > > > > : ever
> > > > > > > > : cook
> > > > > > > > : up
> > > > > > > > : and the ecosystem restored itself in a geological second.
> > > > > > > > : The
> > > > > > > > : amount
> > > > > > > > : of data we, as humans, have collected scientifically over
> > > > > > > > : the
> > > > > > > > : past
> > > > > > > > : 1-200 years is nothing. It's not even a nano-second in
> > > > > > > > : geological
> > > > > > > > : terms. To conclude or attempt to draw anything from
> > > > > > > > : these
> > > > > > > > : statistics
> > > > > > > > : is meaningless and absurd to say the least.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We've collected substantial evidence of the earth's
> > > > > > > > geological
> > > > > > > > history.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The catastrophes of earlier geological ages did not destroy
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > earth,
> > > > > > > > nor will our activities, but they *did* change the climate
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > ways
> > > > > > > > that would have been horribly destructive to human
> > > > > > > > civilization
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > existed at the time. The fear is that our far smaller, but
> > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > potentially significant, activities might similarly cause
> > > > > > > > destruction
> > > > > > > > to human (and other) habitats in the relatively near
> > > > > > > > future.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm not convinced that it will. I'm convinced that it
> > > > > > > > might,
> > > > > > > > though,
> > > > > > > > and that the chance that it might is sufficient reason for
> > > > > > > > us
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > continue to study and to evaluate our activities to make
> > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > aren't creating any potentially avoidable problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : Dinosaur populations excreted more methane and CO/2 than
> > > > > > > > : humans
> > > > > > > > : could ever hope to generate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yep. But most of the sites of today's cities were under
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > then.
> > > > > > > > Later, most of today's lakes and straits and mountains were
> > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > thousands of feet of ice. Neither of those outcomes would
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > particularly desirable today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : It's rather arrogant and self-important
> > > > > > > > : to think that humans are so powerful that we could
> > > > > > > > : permanently
> > > > > > > > : change
> > > > > > > > : or destroy the ecosystem and have it stay permanently
> > > > > > > > : dead.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't think anyone is alleging that we could permanently
> > > > > > > > destroy
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Earth. Only that our activities, if continued unchecked,
> > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > alter
> > > > > > > > climate substantially enough, and for long enough, to have
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > detrimental impact on human and other habitats.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : We will
> > > > > > > > : kill ourselves with war or accidentally releasing a
> > > > > > > > : deadly
> > > > > > > > : virus
> > > > > > > > : into the world before we'll ever hope to destroy this
> > > > > > > > : planet.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Very possible. We've come damn close, more than once.
> > > > > > > > Closer
> > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > most people are willing to believe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : Granted, we shouldn't try, I agree we need to control
> > > > > > > > : ourselves
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That's all I'm saying. It's all that responsible
> > > > > > > > environmentalists
> > > > > > > > are saying too. (There are a lot of very *irresponsible*
> > > > > > > > folks
> > > > > > > > pretending to be environmentalists that are saying a lot
> > > > > > > > more.
> > > > > > > > Mostly, those are folks with political agendas, usually of
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > leftist
> > > > > > > > variety, who *use* well-meaning but naive environmental
> > > > > > > > activists
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > promote that agenda.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > , but
> > > > > > > > : this world has been through huge floods, all sorts of
> > > > > > > > : geological
> > > > > > > > : disasters (giant earthquakes, massive volcanoes spewing
> > > > > > > > : millions
> > > > > > > > : of
> > > > > > > > : tons of CO/2, methane, and all other sorts of noxious
> > > > > > > > : gasses
> > > > > > > > : into
> > > > > > > > : the atmosphere) and look where we are today, paradise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have an environment that is in many respects better than
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > has been (more free from infectious disease, for example).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The challenge is keeping it that way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And in spite of the progress we've made, there still are
> > > > > > > > serious
> > > > > > > > problems such as air pollution in large cities, both air
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > pollution behind the former Iron Curtain, rapid
> > > > > > > > deforestation
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > certain areas (mostly South America and Latin America),
> > > > > > > > and, to
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > blunt, unsustainable development in certain parts of the
> > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > there simply is not enough guaranteed fresh water to
> > > > > > > > sustain
> > > > > > > > life.
> > > > > > > > (The wealthy oil states of the Middle East, and the urban
> > > > > > > > areas
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > southwestern U.S., are prime examples of this).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Preventable diseases still kill tens of millions in the
> > > > > > > > poorest
> > > > > > > > countries. Wars and famines caused mostly by statist
> > > > > > > > political
> > > > > > > > ideologies claim many more.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We're doing better than we did in the past in many ways,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > still much work left to be done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a libertarian I hope it can be done the way it should
> > > > > > > > be,
> > > > > > > > namely,
> > > > > > > > by voluntary cooperation and consent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But it does need to be done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know if global warming is something we can control,
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > attempt to. But I certainly would like to know. And I
> > > > > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > > suggest caution in the meantime.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : We're do for
> > > > > > > > : another ice age here in about 25-50,000 years or so,
> > > > > > > > : we're
> > > > > > > > : probably
> > > > > > > > : just seeing the cycle repeat itself and seeing the
> > > > > > > > : ecosystem
> > > > > > > > : building
> > > > > > > > : up and building up for the next ice age when it'll all
> > > > > > > > : start
> > > > > > > > : over
> > > > > > > > : again and the same thing will happen 100,000 years after
> > > > > > > > : that
> > > > > > > > : like
> > > > > > > > : it's done for the past several million years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Probably.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But in the meantime I'd like those who will come after me
> > > > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > to enjoy the same, or better, environmental AND economic
> > > > > > > > conditions
> > > > > > > > that we have today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To ensure this, we must avoid both extremes. We must not
> > > > > > > > destroy
> > > > > > > > people's livelihoods in a vain attempt to meet arbitrary or
> > > > > > > > unrealistic goals that might not be necessary or even
> > > > > > > > worthwhile.
> > > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > the same time, we must not ignore the mounting evidence
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > warming
> > > > > > > > *is* occurring, that human activities *may* be contributing
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > that the costs for dealing with it *will* be staggering.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > : Humanity is not even a blink of an eye in the Earth's
> > > > > > > > : history
> > > > > > > > : and
> > > > > > > > : it's not about to be destroyed by us.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Unlike some of my more left-leaning peers, I'm not
> > > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > destruction of Earth, so much as I am about the destruction
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > (and other) life on it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Paging Chicken Little
> > > > > > > Paging Chicken Little
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Sky is Falling!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If someone tells me the sky is falling, I at least look up.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is why......... you fail.
> > > >
> > > > Is this the portion of the evening when we randomly quote Star
> > > > Wars?
> > >
> > > No...this is the portion of the evening when you disregard wise
> > > analysis of why you are a loser.
> >
> > Have I insulted you in any way?
>
> Yes... you sided with the loser eco-propagandist.
>
>
> > Didn't you at one point claim not to be the instigator in these flame
> > wars?
>
> When ignorant assholes refuse to cease and desist from spreading lies,
> then...i turn up the heat.
You're more than a bit of an asshole yourself. AFAIC, this thread is
over. It seems no one wants real information or reason, only what they
want to hear.
--
| Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> |
| SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical |
| reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat |
| to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods |
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:02:37 +1000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Britain recently outlawed handguns. Murder rates have
> > > > > > > > > > tripled
> > > > > > > > > > since.
> > > > > > > > > > Australia outlawed ALL firearms. Murder rates have
> > > > > > > > > > quintupled.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So...quite obviously, the correlation between gun
ownership
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > murder is tenous at best.
> >
> > Any refs for this??? I must have been dreaming when Michael Diamond won
> > Olympic gold medal trap shooting yesterday then?? Maybe he was using a
toy
> > shotgun???
> >
> > Has the murder rate trippled in Aus???? Not from what I see, although I
dont
> > have any figures to quote
>
> The Ne'er-do-wells in Aussie have declared Open Season on the public
> since the total firearm ban.
>
>
<snip ridiculous sig>
What the hell are you talking about?????????
Looks like I made the mistake of assuming that you can fairly partake
in a logical conversation.
------------------------------
From: WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:00:49 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WickedDyno wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > WickedDyno wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > WickedDyno wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > WickedDyno wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bob, that sort of logic reminds me of the gun nut's
> > > > > > > > > > arguments,
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > know, the
> > > > > > > > > > fact that the US has a very high % of houshold firearm
> > > > > > > > > > ownership ,
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > it also has an extremely high death by firearm rate,
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > > statistics are not realted!!!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Switzerland and Isreal have even higher rates of firearm
> > > > > > > > > ownership.
> > > > > > > > > Not only that..but FULLY AUTOMATIC RIFLES* and yet, BOTH
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > lower
> > > > > > > > > rates of death by firearms.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Both also require military service and so have a much
> > > > > > > > larger
> > > > > > > > number
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > people who are highly trained in gun usage and safety.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which should, by your argument, RAISE criminality, as they
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > criminals know how to shoot straight.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Umm, whose argument?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It would definitely reduce the number of accidental gun deaths.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (FWIW, I wouldn't feel unsafe living in such a society,
> > > > > > > > despite
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > number of guns around. I do feel unsafe living in a
> > > > > > > > society
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > fewer guns but even fewer trained, disciplined gun owners.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So...bring back the draft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That brings other problems, at least in our society.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Britain recently outlawed handguns. Murder rates have
> > > > > > > > > tripled
> > > > > > > > > since.
> > > > > > > > > Australia outlawed ALL firearms. Murder rates have
> > > > > > > > > quintupled.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So...quite obviously, the correlation between gun
> > > > > > > > > ownership
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > murder is tenous at best.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Except of course that the issue is correlation between gun
> > > > > > > > ownership
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > gun-related deaths.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don't have an answer for that, do you?
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rates.
> > > >
> > > > Did you read what I wrote? Do you deny there is a correlation
> > > > between
> > > > gun ownershi and gun-related deaths?
> > >
> > > In many cases, it is a NEGATIVE correlation...fewer legally owned
> > > guns INCREASES the rate of gun-related deaths.
> >
> > Did I ever deny that was possible?
>
> You never mentioned it.
>
> Why is that?
>
>
> >
> > > Prof. John Lott did a 10-year study on it. "More Guns, Less Crime".
> >
> > IIRC, funded by the NRA.
>
> Bzzzzzzt! Wrong. Federal Government
>
> >
> > > As usual, you're displaying your fucking ignorance.
> > >
> > > You should, like, do something about that.
> >
> > You assume too much.
>
> Yes...I made the mistake of assuming that you can fairly partake
> in a logical conversation.
You are needlessly antagonistic. It is in fact possible to have a
conversation on usenet for mutual benefit in gaining information. It is
rare, but it does happen. You have assured that this will not be the
case here. Goodbye.
--
| Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> |
| SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical |
| reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat |
| to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods |
------------------------------
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