Linux-Advocacy Digest #255, Volume #29 Fri, 22 Sep 00 00:13:03 EDT
Contents:
what to do when.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Donovan
Rebbechi)
Re: Another "feature" in IE discovered. (Osugi)
: Connect up to 1,7000 Suppliers. ; More than 5,7000 Active buyers (GT info)
: Connect up to 1,7000 Suppliers. ; More than 5,7000 Active buyers (GT info)
Re: How low can they go...? ("James Stutts")
Re: "Real Unix" Vs Linux (Tyler Mitchell)
Re: what to do when.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: what to do when.... (Jim Broughton)
Re: what to do when.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Bob Germer)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Bob Germer)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Bob Germer)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Bob Germer)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Bob Germer)
Re: what to do when.... (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: what to do when....
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 02:06:18 GMT
management tells you that *everyone* has to run Windows only? I've been
working at this great big Library for a year now and they never seemed
to care that i was using Linux at my cubicle (because I was able to do
my work). Today after a big meeting my supervisor tells me that the
head doesn't want us to use anything other than M$ products. Her
thinking is that we are getting so many types of systems here that she
wants all staff to use a standard (DOZE). She's afraid Linux may pose
some kind of weird security risk (wtf)! We're talking a SuSE
workstation... not a damn server.
Right now I'm trying to disguise kde2 to look exactly like Win2000....
ahhh this sucks...ico2xpm won't convert the icons.... someone console me
please.
Anyone got any good arguments I could use on my boss on why I should be
allowed to have it?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: 22 Sep 2000 02:41:53 GMT
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:15:39 GMT, Richard wrote:
>2:1 wrote:
>
>No, it most emphatically doesn't have anything to do with bugs. It
>has to do with *high-level architectural decisions* which "hackers"
>never make consciously and explicitly and thus always do badly.
Now we've got another group called "hackers". I suppose you're
going to define this as "programmers who don't design things
properly" and make yourself right by definition. Fine, do that.
However, it's worth pointing out that good programmers most certainly
do design things. For example, C++, java, Corba, HTTP, XML ... were all
designed very carefully.
Things that are non standardised also are often very cleverly and
elegantly designed. For example, the "design patterns" book gives
several familiar examples as to where the said patterns appear.
>Because it's better if they change it? Because the system would be
>simpler, more elegant, more beautiful *and* more powerful?
Again, there's a delicate compromise between change and compatibility. You
seem to complete ignore the fact that compatiblity is not only a useful
thing, it's something that tends to score fairly highly on the list of
users demands.
>> > *: note how much more tolerant <programmers/academics>
>> > are to uneducated and incompetent people who intend to join
>> > the ranks of the <programmer/academic> class.
>>
>> It is usually because the other kind of user is unwilling to even try to
>> learn, so the programmer/academic has to keep going over the same points
>> over again. That irks some people.
>
>This is just bigotry. It is generally incorrect that those who do
>not seek to become academics have a lesser interest in learning
>the subject.
He put it badly. A better way to say it would be that those who
"intend to join" tend to show a better than average willingness to
learn. However, the converse is blatantly false -- it's certainly
wrong to say that those who don't want to become academics don't show
interest and motivation.
>This is not commonly done because academics hold people
>outside their chosen field of expertise (and this includes other
>academics) in contempt.
Again, blatantly false. Speaking for myself, I have several friends
in other departments. And I'm not the exception to the rule.
SUre, there are obnoxious and ill adjusted academics, but there
are obnoxious and ill adjusted people in any other profession too.
>Btw, all of the great teachers I've known or heard of have
>always assumed that they were in the wrong wrt any teacher-
>student conflict and have always made their students feel
>worthwhile.
I don't think "assuming you're wrong" in any conflict is very
intelligent. Being assertive and consistent is very important.
If you're not assertive, you risk being unfair.
However, you must be willing to measure your success in terms of
what the students get out of the class. I remember one of my favourite
profs saying that
"if you give a lecture, and the students do not learn from
it, then that lecture, no matter how eloquent is a failure".
I agree with this, but I don't agree that the "student is always right".
>It may be comforting to blame one's students for one's own
>lack of teaching skills but it doesn't make it so.
Well like I said, this is wrong. The best measure of success is how
well your students learn.
>> Programmers are not responsible for the users mental well being at all.
>> In fact, the OSS programmmers (esp. GPL ones) are not responsible for
>> anything. No fitness for a particular purpose guarntees. Since the
>
>Blatantly incorrect, illegal, unethical and immoral.
I don't quite agree with him but I don't agree with you either. As
long as your software isn't outright malicious, and it's free, I
don't see how you're obliged to make it fit for any purpose.
>The gift *is* the responsibility. Without this responsibility, the gift
>is completely useless. But of course, anglo-americans do not have
>the perspective of humane aspects in their societies or of anyone
>taking responsibility for their actions.
Again, unless the gift is obviously malicious, I don't see a problem.
Virus writing is clearly unethical but giving the world a harmless
( though possibly worthless ) gift is hardly "evil".
>You're completely trivializing the importance of Expectations.
>Is it possible to give software to a user and destroy all of their
>expectations about that software? Hell no. In that case, it is
>flatly impossible for you to discard all of your responsibilities
>as a consequence of a gift.
Wrong. It is your responsibility not to give the user unrealistic
expectations. If the user gets funny ideas, it's not the programmers
fault.
>Compatibility is about the only design goal that will conflict with every
>other design goal in existence. I don't care much for it. Nearly all of the
We know that you don't care for it. But the fact remains that it's useful
to a lot of people. In particular, these users, who you keep pretending
to care about often want compatiblity.
>I think that computing is the perfect field. Mathematics is a millenia
>old field so it would be extremely difficult for me to contribute there.
>I'm basically lazy so computing is perfect that way; I can claim to have
>done something without doing much at all.
Well you haven't done much so far, so you're off to a good start.
>> Only a serious lapse would cause someone to say `grep' to someone who
>> wasn't a fellow hacker. I also don't see why programmers should be
>> forces to use an inefficient language so that people who have no
>> interest in understanding can understand.
>
>Are you talking about standard english or C/C++?
>
>If the latter then in what way is C/C++ "efficient"? Please keep
One way in which it's efficient is that it's compiled instead of
interpreted.
>English is a business language. You can justify chinese by saying that
>the characters are beautiful and it has a rich cultural history but you
>can't do the same with a language whose single biggest purpose is to
>be an international language of business.
English has no such "purpose". English is an international business
language because that's where the money is now. At the height of the
Greek and Roman empires, English was not the main "business language".
>> But you seem to think that the language that fits programmers and the
>> like should be abolished for the sake of the users, because it doesn't
>> fit them.
>
>I don't think it fits programmers at all. I think C/C++ is ugly
>because it *doesn't* fit programmers.
I think C++ is quite well designed all things considered. Despite that
it's saddled with compatibility, it does a great job of combining
OO, generic programming and type safety. I don't think there's any
language in wide use that does this nearly as well ( most interpreted
languages are very dynamic at the expense of type safety and compile
time error detection, and java doesn't support generics )
>Here's the short version:
>there is no way in freaking hell that I can write an entire operating
>system on my own along with all utilities, shells and applications
>even if I write in a high-level language that makes me a hundred
>times more productive than a low-level coder. So my success
>depends on attracting other programmers. And my success in
The other programmers will come -- if you can put something of
substance on the table.
So far, you have shown us nothing but noise.
BTW, even if you do have other programmers, writing all the applications
from scratch is hard. Linux had the advantage of having the GNU utilities
already availabl. Again, we are back to the fact that compatiblity is a
huge advantage in practice, and you are just ignoring this.
You can draw stupid diagrams with arrows, and write proofs all day, and
design the most beautiful OS without any compatibility requirements,
but when it comes down to the hard work of implementing your big ideas,
this is the part where one realises that compatibility is very useful.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Osugi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another "feature" in IE discovered.
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 02:38:18 GMT
In article <UWsy5.2165$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <8pvp36$snu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, MH wrote:
> > >I'd gladly trade my movements being tracked for a browser that can:
> > >
> >
> > I wouldn't for anything Microsoft could offer me.
> >
> > Has anyone else noted that Netmeeting seems to set up TCP
connections
> > with a Microsoft site, even when using a 'local' server (ie., one
> > within an intranet)? I spotted these when listing my masq firewalls
> > state with ipfwadm.
> >
> > Yes, I have to use Win98 SE for work. I do not like it.
>
> and? whats the problem? you do know that you can change that under
settings?
>
> /IL
>
Why don't you have a problem with software that - without telling you -
attempts to phone home whenever you use it?
--
Osugi Sakae
I will not be filed, numbered, briefed or debriefed.
I am not a number, I am a free man. -The Prisoner
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: GT info <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: : Connect up to 1,7000 Suppliers. ; More than 5,7000 Active buyers
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:43:03 +0800
Taiwan leading B2B portal site : "Taiwan Products Online".
http://www.manufactures.com.tw
http://www.taiwansource.com/ )
Sources for buyers or sellers, importers or exporters, distributors or
manufacturers. Checkout the following website profile :
__________________
Suppliers: 1,7000.
Active Buyers: 5,7000.
Pageview : 1,650,000( Monthly )
__________________
Services include :
All Taiwan / China Online Companies Search Engine.
B2B marketplace.
Buyers List.
Taiwan Trade Opportunity:
Offer to Buy.
Offer to Sell.
Free e mail account for Trade Visitors.
Product Promotions.
New Product Announcements.
C l e a r a n c e.
Total EC solution, etc.
__________________
39 Product Categories.
17 Industry Sites:
__________________
Computer Sources.
Electronics Network.
Machinery Directory.
Furniture Net.
Textile Network.
Taiwan Hardware.
Toolsource Online.
Taiwan Bicycle Net.
Auto Parts Directory.
Packaging Network.
Construction Online.
Toys & Children's Goods.
Sports Goods Online.
Telecom Net.
Office Suppliers Online.
Gift Web Online.
Houseware.
__________________
We aim to facilitate international trade and to provide unparalleled
matchmaking service between buyers and suppliers. It is just as easy as
a click to unlock the power of b2b commerce on the Internet for buying,
selling and sourcing orders.
We sincerely invite you to visit our website and wish your
business going better.
Best Regards,
Taiwan Products Online
( http://www.manufactures.com.tw
http://www.taiwansource.com/ )
------------------------------
From: GT info <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: : Connect up to 1,7000 Suppliers. ; More than 5,7000 Active buyers
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:43:10 +0800
Taiwan leading B2B portal site : "Taiwan Products Online".
http://www.manufactures.com.tw
http://www.taiwansource.com/ )
Sources for buyers or sellers, importers or exporters, distributors or
manufacturers. Checkout the following website profile :
__________________
Suppliers: 1,7000.
Active Buyers: 5,7000.
Pageview : 1,650,000( Monthly )
__________________
Services include :
All Taiwan / China Online Companies Search Engine.
B2B marketplace.
Buyers List.
Taiwan Trade Opportunity:
Offer to Buy.
Offer to Sell.
Free e mail account for Trade Visitors.
Product Promotions.
New Product Announcements.
C l e a r a n c e.
Total EC solution, etc.
__________________
39 Product Categories.
17 Industry Sites:
__________________
Computer Sources.
Electronics Network.
Machinery Directory.
Furniture Net.
Textile Network.
Taiwan Hardware.
Toolsource Online.
Taiwan Bicycle Net.
Auto Parts Directory.
Packaging Network.
Construction Online.
Toys & Children's Goods.
Sports Goods Online.
Telecom Net.
Office Suppliers Online.
Gift Web Online.
Houseware.
__________________
We aim to facilitate international trade and to provide unparalleled
matchmaking service between buyers and suppliers. It is just as easy as
a click to unlock the power of b2b commerce on the Internet for buying,
selling and sourcing orders.
We sincerely invite you to visit our website and wish your
business going better.
Best Regards,
Taiwan Products Online
( http://www.manufactures.com.tw
http://www.taiwansource.com/ )
------------------------------
From: "James Stutts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:06:23 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said James Stutts in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> Said James Stutts in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >
> >> >Incompatibility? In what way? Our NT clients can communicate quite
easily
> >> >to our Linux servers.
> >>
> >> Not the prosaic way you're thinking of, certainly. If I am
> >> inconvenienced by having to *avoid* a monopoly; if I have to even think
> >> for a moment about having to *work around them*, and I would, since I
> >
> >Welcome to the real world. That situation exists in more than just this
> >industry.
>
> Not in my experience. Could you name an example?
Medical insurance, for one. Especially in areas dominated by a large
carrier, such
as BlueCross. It is *inconvenient* to some extent if your employer offers a
different
plan then the common one in your area. One of the many things you have to
live
with.
>
> >Frankly, how are you inconvenienced? If you don't want to use their
stuff,
> >you have plenty of alternatives. What you you having to avoid here?
>
> Well, whatever you meant to say, it is 'avoiding' something which I find
> inconvenient. If it were merely a matter of selecting from
You have to "avoid" things everyday.
> alternatives, believe me, I'd never choose crap this bad. But a variety
> of reasons keep me using this crap, involuntarily; some stronger, some
Sounds like your complaint is really with your boss, not Microsoft. Perhaps
MS is just an easier target for your venting.
> lesser, than the other 90% which are equally 'locked in', somehow or
> another. The majority, of course, might well be locked in merely by
> their ignorance of how crappy Microsoft products are, because they don't
> have anything to easily compare them to.
I've used Netscape... <shudder>. I've used Solaris 2.4 <shudder>. Crap
is everywhere in the computer industry, not just in Redmond.
>
> >> serve a large market which is still locked in to the monopoly, it is
> >> costing me money.
> >
> >Then get out of that market. You at least seem to think the world should
> >conform to you.
>
> What a stupid thing to say. Quit my job because Microsoft broke the law
No, quit your job because you seem to hate it. As to whether MS actually
broke
the law, that will likely be determined by the Supreme Court.
> and trolls on Usenet think they can ridicule me for being a victim? How
Everyone's a victim these days.... You're a "network engineer" (and
probably actually
use that term) aren't you...
JCS
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: "Real Unix" Vs Linux
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:15:32 GMT
In article <8q7ql8$2hcg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Yeah, right - the average computer user can't work an ftp client unless it
>looks *exactly* like Windows explorer, so I'm sure they'll get along just
>*grand* with Linux.
Exactly. Linux, *BSD, and Unix is not for everybody. Microsoft releases
Windows for a reason: people who don't know much about computers and who aren't
smart enough to buy a Macintosh need an operating system to run.
Assuming that Linux was run by everybody, more energy would be expended on
making it easier to use. Energy which, IMHO, could be used better elsewhere.
>J
>
>--
>John M Dow
>Director, Systems - dowcarter, Edinburgh, Scotland
>"Mixing Kittens and Asps is most definitely a recipe for larger Asps."
> Aquarion, in C.S.S.
--
Tyler Mitchell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: what to do when....
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:13:05 GMT
In article <8qeeqe$dcs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> management tells you that *everyone* has to run Windows only? I've
been
> working at this great big Library for a year now and they never seemed
> to care that i was using Linux at my cubicle (because I was able to do
> my work). Today after a big meeting my supervisor tells me that the
> head doesn't want us to use anything other than M$ products. Her
> thinking is that we are getting so many types of systems here that she
> wants all staff to use a standard (DOZE). She's afraid Linux may pose
> some kind of weird security risk (wtf)! We're talking a SuSE
> workstation... not a damn server.
> Right now I'm trying to disguise kde2 to look exactly like Win2000....
> ahhh this sucks...ico2xpm won't convert the icons.... someone console
me
> please.
> Anyone got any good arguments I could use on my boss on why I should
be
> allowed to have it?
Yeah. Tell her she's a clueless moron with the IQ of a salt encrusted
slug.
Back to reality... You need to find out what her real objection to Linux
is. Linux in the hands of even a moderately competent individual can be
made as secure as an equivalent MSFT Windows client. She likely has
some other agenda, and until you know what it is, you can't effectively
argue against it.
But just for laughs, offer to compare source code between the two
systems to search for security defeciencies. Promise her you'll quit
using Linux as soon as she discovers a security feature in MSFT source
code that Linux doesn't implement as well. That should keep her busy
for a while....
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Jim Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: what to do when....
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:39:31 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> management tells you that *everyone* has to run Windows only? I've been
> working at this great big Library for a year now and they never seemed
> to care that i was using Linux at my cubicle (because I was able to do
> my work). Today after a big meeting my supervisor tells me that the
> head doesn't want us to use anything other than M$ products. Her
> thinking is that we are getting so many types of systems here that she
> wants all staff to use a standard (DOZE). She's afraid Linux may pose
> some kind of weird security risk (wtf)! We're talking a SuSE
> workstation... not a damn server.
> Right now I'm trying to disguise kde2 to look exactly like Win2000....
> ahhh this sucks...ico2xpm won't convert the icons.... someone console me
> please.
> Anyone got any good arguments I could use on my boss on why I should be
> allowed to have it?
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Crap on them. Just create a dual boot system. If anyone asks just
tell them you found a great way to customize the way windows looks.
--
Jim Broughton
(The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
If Sense were common everyone would have it!
Following Air and Water the third most abundant
thing on the planet is Human Stupidity.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: what to do when....
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:28:09 GMT
In article <8qeeqe$dcs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anyone got any good arguments I could use on my boss on why I should
> be allowed to have it?
You're going to have to come up with some on your own. Find something
(or many things) that you can do (or, preferably, are already doing)
using Linux that you can't do using Windows, and when she starts
blabbing about security issues, make sure you've done your homework and
can answer any of them.
So many places I know of do this. They start something without
management's consent on a totally NON mission critical task ("Hey look!
We've been using MySQL on this one linux server in the back room to
keep track of upcoming schedules. You know, just for kicks. Pumps out
web pages for the intranet. Works beautifully!"), and then before long
management's so glad that they were clever enough to come up with the
idea themselves.
Certain offices are going to have problems, many for tech support
reasons. Government offices in British Columbia, for instance, are all
about Windows NT. Can't really escape it.
-ws
-ws
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:12:42 GMT
On 09/21/2000 at 05:02 PM,
Jason Bowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> It wasn't unannounced. If there is a lab in Engineering with it it
> isn't a public lab. I just wasn't notified till he showed up.
More proof you are a disgrace to the good name of the University of
Colorado.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 14
MR/2 Ice 2.20 Registration Number 67
Finishing in 2nd place makes you first loser
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:12:00 GMT
On 09/21/2000 at 05:52 PM,
Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> The point is that Apple is widely associated with a lifestyle and
> mindset. Packard Bell is not.
Just for grins and giggles, I had one of our high school computer teachers
ask 11th graders what they though of when they heard the word, "Apple".
Only 6 of 87 said computers.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 14
MR/2 Ice 2.20 Registration Number 67
Finishing in 2nd place makes you first loser
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:15:31 GMT
On 09/21/2000 at 01:26 PM,
Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> "It s sometimes as easy as the director saying, It has to be a Mac, and
> we can t use anything else. That happens a lot.
> -Peter
Until you can cite a verifiable source for that statement you are enrolled
in the list of contemptable liars.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 14
MR/2 Ice 2.20 Registration Number 67
Finishing in 2nd place makes you first loser
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:18:22 GMT
On 09/21/2000 at 12:43 PM,
"Mike Ruskai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Did you know that companies paid for product placement at the OJ Simpson
> trial? No video medium is immune. A long time ago, producers had to
> get the permission of the parent company to put a product on display in
> an entertainment piece.
> Now, the companies fight over who gets the product placement.
And not just in movies. A school district in Bucks County, Pennsylvania
got Coke and Pepsi into a bidding war. For the exclusive right to have
only Pepsi products in the cafeteria and vending machines on school
property, Pepsi paid for lighting the stadium and erecting an electronic
scoreboard. This is a high school with about 1,300 students. The bidding
and negotiations were well covered in the Philadelphia press and media.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 14
MR/2 Ice 2.20 Registration Number 67
Finishing in 2nd place makes you first loser
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:19:03 GMT
On 09/21/2000 at 12:35 PM,
Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Same thing goes for Windows. What would it have gained Microsoft? It's
> like, "Oh, yeah. So what? That computer is running Windows. So does
> mine :-)" In a way it's much easier for niche marketers to do product
> placement -- things that are out of place get noticed.
Yep. Apples in a business office come to mind immediately.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 14
MR/2 Ice 2.20 Registration Number 67
Finishing in 2nd place makes you first loser
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: what to do when....
Date: 22 Sep 2000 03:58:05 GMT
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 02:06:18 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>management tells you that *everyone* has to run Windows only? I've been
>working at this great big Library for a year now and they never seemed
>to care that i was using Linux at my cubicle (because I was able to do
>my work). Today after a big meeting my supervisor tells me that the
>head doesn't want us to use anything other than M$ products. Her
Why ?
>thinking is that we are getting so many types of systems
And this is a problem because ?
> here that she
>wants all staff to use a standard (DOZE). She's afraid Linux may pose
>some kind of weird security risk (wtf)!
Why ?
>Anyone got any good arguments I could use on my boss on why I should be
>allowed to have it?
You should be allowed to have it because there's absolutely no reason
why you shouldn't. And because that's what you're most productive with.
Ask for an explanation as to why you have to use doze.
If they say "security", tell them you are not running any services
( and don't run any services ! )
--
Donovan
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
