Linux-Advocacy Digest #325, Volume #29 Wed, 27 Sep 00 02:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: filename extensions are NOT a kludge (Richard)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Goldhammer)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: CP/M: 'tis not _completely_ gone... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT (Mike Byrns)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT (dc)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Mike Byrns)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:16:26 GMT
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> >exporting out the bare hardware, and they failed abysmally. Coming
> >up with supposed deficits in research OSes is just a cheap and lame
> >way to try to rationalize away inertia.
>
> And there has been no practical OS with much more abstraction than
> unix.
g/unix/windows
The idea that Unix somehow achieved a "perfect balance" in the
level of abstraction versus efficiency spectrum is ludicrous and
you prove yourself an idiot merely for implying it.
You're such a cretin you can't even think about the fact that
'no OS has a chance against Unix no matter how efficient and
powerful' long enough to conclude that just maybe I don't give
a shit about competing agaist Unix and thus just maybe I don't
give a shit about how efficient my OS is either.
Half the OS projects out there are about being a thousand times
more efficient, reliable, and secure than Unix and it will never
be sufficient. To get yourself a niche, you have to do something
that /no one/ has ever done before.
But then, you're too provincial to ever think beyond your little
"Unix is all there is" mindset.
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: filename extensions are NOT a kludge
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:21:28 GMT
No Name wrote:
> There are not objective principles about beauty, elegance or
> simplicity because they are non measurable, abstract concepts,
> you can say something is fast or slow if you establish an
> arbitrary limit between both adjectives and then go and measure
> the speed of an object. And even that a certain Mr Einstein
> showed us that is relative. Now tell me what is your objective
> criteria to declare that something is elegant, simple or
> beautiful?
Symmetry and Kolmogorov complexity both pop off the top of my
head, both of which are well-defined mathematical concepts.
But then, you don't seem the type to know any more about math
than you do about physics.
> And this is important when it comes to design, because it does
> not matter what you design today and how elegant or simple it is
> perceived to be today, tomorrow it surely will not be perceived as
> elegant or simple (go an read articles about earlier user interfaces
> , you will see mainly rave reviews, not most of them look and feel
> clumsy, at least in my obviously not objective humble opinion).
So is physics just a random stream of fashionable theories to you
or is it somehow exempt? What about other sciences?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:34:02 -0400
Mark Hall wrote:
>
> How anyone can believe a Texas oil man (a bad Texas oil man at that) has
> any benevolent feelings towards any class < than the upper crust is
> either a complete idiot, lives on planet X, or is just blowing wind out
> his ass. Well, we know Clue-less Kulkis is nothing more than a broken
> transducer stuck in a bad loop with no exit condition. So his opinion is
Wrong: see below, asshole.
> null and void. But really people, you actually think Bush is going to
> give the working smuck any sort of a REAL break? Get a F'n clue! Only
> difference between Bush-lite and Gore is as always, with democrats
> you're likely to get a few more crumbs in the way of programs. Just the
> kind of programs fascists like Kulkis despise. These individuals can't
> stand the educated. They're scared to death of educating young people.
> But then as a wise man said, never attribute to malice what can
> adequately be explained by stupidity. It's these very same disconnected
> SOB's that are the witless dupes that the money that backs Bush depend
> on. So when we're back in the hell of voodoo economics you know who to
> thank.
Which is why I advocate anybody who wants TRUE freedom (economic and
otherwise) should vote for the Libertarian party.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:37:06 GMT
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:16:26 GMT, Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Half the OS projects out there are about being a thousand times
>more efficient, reliable, and secure than Unix and it will never
>be sufficient.
Can you explain what you mean here? Can you provide specific
examples?
--
Unix is life. Windows is death.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:36:17 -0400
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:54:29 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> > >Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I read it just fine. Sorry, a coke a day is not "huge".
> > >
> > >If you're stupid enough to pay $6 for a coke, you're a fucking idiot
> > >and DESERVE to be poor.
> >
> > THat was actually funny. However, it works out at about $1 per coke
> > ( 4 family members * $1/coke * 1coke/day * 365 days/yr = $1460 )
>
> Actually, I never said anything about coke, and actually this is probably
> the first incidence ever of me writing the word "coke" in a newsgroup post.
> And if you've been around these parts for any amount of time you would
> realize the significance of Me, Joe R. and especially Kulkis agreeing on
> this (or any) issue.
>
Yup!
> When you see the three of us agreeing on something it's time to step back
> and seriously reconsider your stand. Now if T. Max Devlin chimes in in
> agreement you will have witnessed the eighth wonder of the world in the
> making.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: CP/M: 'tis not _completely_ gone...
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:37:18 -0400
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
> In our last episode (Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:22:26 -0400),
> the artist formerly known as D. Spider said:
> >It appears that on Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:03:46 GMT, in
> >comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Edwards) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, D. Spider wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> Really? Which ones were those that came with the source code?
> >>
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>>Don't forget CPM.
> >>
> >>I don't remember having sources to CP/M. The versions I used
> >>(1.4 and 2.2, IIRC), came with CBIOS sources, but not sources for
> >>CP/M itself.
> >
> >It was available. You had to request an NDA, sign it, and send it
> >back, but if you were developing for the platform that was what you
> >did. Microsoft, among many others, did just that.
>
> Note that sources to ZSDOS, an advanced upwards-compatible successor
> to CP/M, are now available under the GPL.
>
> If you're looking for an operating system to use with a Z-80,
Ummm...err...but...why?
> this ought to be an absolutely _ideal_ choice...
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/obsolete.html>
> 'Typos in FINNEGANS WAKE? How could you tell?' -- Kim Stanley Robinson
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:42:25 GMT
dc wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:28:56 +1000, Chris Sherlock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >dc wrote:
> >[snip]
> >
> >> Then perhaps, among other things, your system admin has disabled the
> >> normal cached profiles. Normally when the NIC can't reach the PDC,
> >> the cached profiles will be used, the last known password that was
> >> cached will be used, and the user can access the system with those
> >> credentials until told otherwise.
> >
> >Hold on. I can see a fairly big flaw in this... what if somehow someone
> >you didn't like got your old password. They would be able to access your
> >old profile! Surely W2K wouldn't allow for *this* to happen, would it?
>
> Of course they could. If someone knew your current password, and
> wanted to look at your profile without anyone else knowing, they'd
> just keep that machine off the network, and they could look at the
> profile by logging in as you. If you changed that password, as long
> as they kept the machine off the network while logging in they could
> still log in as you.
They'll get your configurations by not your files if the machine policies
were setup right. With UNIX couldn't even log in without a local account.
Then you'd be screwed on or off the net.
--
Mike Byrns
Microsoft Windows Software Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:13:05 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said James Stutts in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> >Speaking, I'm sure, for the majority of the US that doesn't live in
>> >California, I couldn't care
>> >less what the citizens of San Diego agree to. I used to live in a town
>with
>> >only one cable
>> >service (and a private electrical company). I never really had an issue
>> >with the electrical service,
>> >but cable service was lousy. The only option was satellite. Instead of
>> >whining about it
>> >to the world, as you seem want to do, one either accepted the poor
>service
>> >or chose the
>> >alternative.
>>
>> I have no idea what you're referring to. You brought up cable
>> companies.
>
>I was drawing an analogy between the "choice" situation for broadcast
>services and OS.
>That's not hard to follow.
Apparently, it was. What precisely is the analogy? Cable service and
OSes? That doesn't make any sense. You weren't drawing an analogy, as
I see it, so much as begging the question. Why are cable services likes
OSes? Just because you don't have much choice in either?
[...]
>> The one where Microsoft has been convicted of multiple felonies.
>
>The Supreme Court will answer that.
The only thing the Supreme Court could do is contradict that, and they
don't seem anxious to do that. Are you familiar with the Parish and
Kodak cases?
>> >Your chief complaint seems to be that you are "forced" to use
>> >the laptop
>> >provided by your employer as your home computer.
>>
>> I've never complained in particular about my laptop; this is a troll
>> which others have raised in a vain attempt to defend a criminal
>> monopoly.
>
>What criminal monopoly? Have you ever priced Windows (actual purchase
>cost) to the competition?
Yes. And it is higher than it would be if they didn't have a monopoly.
>Have you ever bought Solaris (before the recent
>near giveway) or IRIX? The haven't raised prices. If anything, their
>prices have dropped.
That is not the issue. The issue is would they have dropped more if the
monopoly not be artificially controlling prices through non-competitive
means.
[...]
>> It sure as hell wasn't 'free'. I don't spend "the company's money"
>
>Your employer paid for it. You didn't. To you, it was free.
It doesn't work like that. If nothing else, I'm a stock-holder.
>> without reason. I demanded they buy NT because I refused to use 98 and
>> I could supposedly run the products of my trade on it, as well as
>
>You have a trade, Max? What is that?
I troubleshoot.
[...]
>> Avoiding the monopoly is a cost to me; money, time, and compatibility in
>> an un-ending parade of reasons why monopolization is illegal.
>
>Making life convenient for you isn't the basis of the law.
No, its the basis of the free market. The free market is the basis of
the law.
[...]
>> I chose the monopoly product because it is a monopoly product, which is
>> to say because I didn't have any commercially feasible alternatives
>
>Commercially feasible for what? What, besides posting drivel to newsgroups,
>do you use a computer for?
Anything I can manage to get it to do. In particular, professionally,
manage global networks.
>> available due to the criminal behavior of the monopolist.
>
>Due to your laziness, more likely.
Heh. Yea.
>> >> --
>> >> T. Max Devlin
>> >> *** The best way to convince another is
>> >> to state your case moderately and
>> >> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>> >
>> >"Sounds to me like you're a moron" doesn't state your case moderately or
>> >accurately.
>>
>> That would depend on the circumstances and context, if one had any
>> interest in moderation or accuracy.
>
>Well, you certainly missed the circumstances and context here. You've
>convinced no one of anything.
No, I've convinced many people of many things. Most of them don't post
much because of assholes who pounce on them, but I regularly get email
from people who find my statements at least somewhat convincing.
>If you choose the "monopoly product", then you (and those like you) continue
>that monopoly. I used Solaris before NT. I have choices. So do you, if you'd
>bother to actually
>look. Of course, you'd have to find something else to complain about. You are one
>of those
>"network engineer" types, aren't you. Got to be.
No, I'm the one who cleans up the messes of the 'network engineer'
types, and try to explain how to avoid them in the future.. And the
"network admin" types, the 'application programmer' types, and the
'telecom guys', as well. You're trying to convince me that purely on
technical merit you 'chose' the crapware that the monopoly is pushing
down everyone's throat (at $200 a pop)? You don't seem to understand
the very concept "monopoly product". It has nothing to do with
products. You chose Win32, is what you chose; application barrier and
exclusive channel domination and all.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:19:28 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Zenin in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>: Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >snip<
>:>> Didn't it come with a basic interpreter?
>:>Maybe - but even if so, it wasn't preinstalled.
>:
>: No, Atari's ROM actually had an OS on it, unlike XT's.
>
> I can't remember if they were PCs or XTs, but I do remember Radio
> Shack "Tandem" computers coming with MSDOS burned onto the EPROM
> itself. This was when harddrives were still uncommon of course, so
> this made it boot much faster then the slow floppy drive. It did,
> however, make upgrading MSDOS interesting...you had to buy a new
> EPROM.
>
> This was, however, the only x86 PC I recall ever attempting to do
> this.
This was one of the 'compatibles' probably, as most _Tandy_ computers
were, rather than 'PC clones' which eventually dominated the market.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:23:50 -0500
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:42:25 GMT, Mike Byrns
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>dc wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:28:56 +1000, Chris Sherlock
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >dc wrote:
>> >[snip]
>> >
>> >> Then perhaps, among other things, your system admin has disabled the
>> >> normal cached profiles. Normally when the NIC can't reach the PDC,
>> >> the cached profiles will be used, the last known password that was
>> >> cached will be used, and the user can access the system with those
>> >> credentials until told otherwise.
>> >
>> >Hold on. I can see a fairly big flaw in this... what if somehow someone
>> >you didn't like got your old password. They would be able to access your
>> >old profile! Surely W2K wouldn't allow for *this* to happen, would it?
>>
>> Of course they could. If someone knew your current password, and
>> wanted to look at your profile without anyone else knowing, they'd
>> just keep that machine off the network, and they could look at the
>> profile by logging in as you. If you changed that password, as long
>> as they kept the machine off the network while logging in they could
>> still log in as you.
>
>They'll get your configurations by not your files if the machine policies
>were setup right. With UNIX couldn't even log in without a local account.
>Then you'd be screwed on or off the net.
Please describe how they'd get your config but not your files. Assume
NT4-WS.
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:25:51 GMT
ostracus wrote:
> In article <39d1144c$2$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Bob Germer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >> There are Mac databases.
> >
> > Which are toys compared to DB/2.
> <snip>
>
> Toys? Hmmm...
> http://www.oracle.com/oramag/oracle/99-Nov/69prod.html#AP
Haha. Client libs. Where's the 8i server software for OSX? How sad. BTW
DB/2 doesn't require client libs so to speak so a POSIX client can use DB/2
from AIX. After all AIX still carries the Apple copyright along with IBM.
My B50's do web serving and my H70's (oh so sweetly decked out :-) do DB/2
OR Oracle 8i just fine. Although DB/2 only would be my choice.
--
Mike Byrns
Microsoft Windows Software Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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