Linux-Advocacy Digest #429, Volume #29 Tue, 3 Oct 00 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: How low can they go...? ("James A. Robertson")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: GPL & freedom ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Double standard? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? (Michael Marion)
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? (Michael Marion)
Re: How low can they go...? (Nobody)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Peter Van Der Linden's Unfounded Claims & Accusations ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? (Michael Marion)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Roberto
Alsina)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why I hate Windows... (D. Spider)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why I hate Windows... (D. Spider)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:22:12 GMT
Peter van der Linden wrote:
>
> James A. Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Note the term lawyer. If you felt wronged by JTK, then a civil court is
> >the appropriate forum.
>
> Sure, that's one option. Not a very practical one for many people.
>
> Another equally valid option is to enquire with their ISP if you
> think they are breaking their terms of service.
>
> In the case of Gary Van Sickle, the enquiry went to the company whose
> systems he was using to make his anonymous racist attacks. And yes,
> the company felt that Van Sickle was acting outside their policies.
>
> They obviously felt pretty strongly about the matter because their
> website (http://www.braemarinc.com) has also been taken down and
> off the air since Van Sickle's activities were brought to their attention.
>
> There is no magic Usenet right to make libellous accusation from
> an anonymous account. If someone does that, you can counter with
> a lawyer, with a policy of ignoring them, with a complaint to the
> organization whose systems are being used, or with anything you
> like really.
I never said it wa sa right. I just don't think that personal
harrassment is the proper avenue
--
James A. Robertson
Technical Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:42:38 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >Jesus, Max. Stop chianging your mind so much. I'm starting to suspect
that
> >you're actually disociative.
>
> Stop trying to hand-wave the fact that you can't manage to understand
> what I wrote; other people don't seem to have as much trouble. I
> haven't changed my mind, my remarks, or my opinions (save to lower my
> opinion of you) since this conversation began; merely the comments I've
> made to express them. You fail to grasp the meaning of my words, and
> then think its appropriate to ridicule me for your failure?
Just let us know after the doctors have "cured" you. I'm not going to pull
any more hair out trying to understand your incomprehensible babble.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:28:15 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
[...]
>You're just giving more proof that you're a total idiot talking out of his ass.
I've seen proof of this, and I can assure you it didn't look anything
like the comment you are responding to.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:16:54 GMT
In article <8rcar2$1ml$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If you want to compare apples to apples, compare linux apps to the
> > freely available apps bundled with win32:
>
> Why the ones bundled with 'win32'?
I'm comparing what comes available with each distribution out of the
box.
> > gimp ms paint, Gimp by a mile
> > kde advanced text editor vs notepad & wordpad, huge edge for linux
>
> But not vs. TextPad or Ultraedit.
Those are part of the standard distribution?
> Besides, with Notepad, I can use UNICODE, *and* Windows 2000 has many
> different language input locales that Linux does not have.
Not an issue for me. Where's the ability to move directly to a given
line? vi users have had that functionality since the 1970's. Where's
the multiple source code highlighting? Where's the ability to open
directly to CWD? Why can't I position the cursor and start typing from
anywhere in a blank document? Why do I have to navigate from my
documents every time I open a file?
Pure garbage.
> > apache vs personal web server, no contest
>
> I beg to differ. Personal web server is based on IIS 5.0 under
> Windows 2000, and it SMOKES apache in almost every way.
We use IIS as a development server for some of our projects and it
still crashes on a more or less weekly basis. Kinda tough having a web
server in a production environment that doesn't like it when people
transfer large amounts of data to it over a network.
> Check www.tpc.org for the benchmarks... Windows 2000 + IIS 5.0 takes
> the TOP spots for performance Linux + Apache is NOWHERE to be seen --
> not even the lower scores.
Yes, it's pretty tough to get ranked if you are not a particpant in the
study. For transaction processing speed, compare the performance of Tux
to iis. 30-40% faster acrss the board.
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/
For stability... well, stability has never been a big issue with
micros~1
> > perl vs. perl hands down, perl for linux
>
> No. ActivePerl for Win32 is perl plus Windows extensions -- ie. all
> of the funtionality of Perl plus more.
I guess you don't use Perl much. If you did, you'd realize that only a
small portion of the total modules available in perl builds for linux
are available on even the Active Perl 5.6 available on win32. You'd
also realize that the system resources used by perl on windows is much
higher than for linux, and that simple things like reading data from a
file and printing to STDOUT runs 30-40% slower on like hardware under
win32.
As to the "windows extensions", I assume that you are referring to the
win32 and win32api modules. This does not come close to offsetting the
loss of a big chunk of modules available on cpan.
> > gcc vs ???
>
> gcc is available for Win32.
Very limited and buggy. also not distributed with windows.
.
> > sendmail vs ???
>
> Many variants of sendmail exist for Win32.
Not distributed with the product.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:30:41 GMT
"Jon A. Maxwell (JAM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8rd41l$m2m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Music will work the same way. Musicians will earn money from their
> songs being played on the radio (service) and from concerts
> (admission). You'll still get the copy free from Napster and the
> artist will still make 'plenty' of money. Mp3.com is good example of
> how this can work well.
Hang on... so music, being free to copy, can be distributed freely. But
you're saying that they get paid for radio play because it's a "service"?
How in hell can that be? Or are you talking about a live performance on the
radio?
> | Nice philosophy.
>
> Yes, and you have even more options for making money with software;
> you can keep the actual algorithm and work on your server (service)
> and charge admission (per use fee).
Well, go for it! Let me know how you do and I'll consider doing it myself.
If, however, you find that the honest are outweighed by the greedy and
dishonest 10:1, then don't cry. After all, you *told* us so.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Double standard?
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:48:48 -0500
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Tue, 3 Oct 2000 04:26:41 -0500
> <VmhC5.3806$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >"Chris Sherlock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> Oh, I don't know about that! GNOME is beginning to really take shape,
> >> but just about everything that you can do in Windows you can do in KDE!
> >
> >Ok, how about create a virtual file system housed inside the shell
browser
> >as a plug-in?
>
> That is a slightly odd request. However, file systems can be inserted
> into the Linux kernel as loadable modules; for example, there's one
> that can read tar files. (Or was it zip files?)
And installable file systems are available under Windows as well, but that
has little to do with the shell. In the case of the windows shell, a
virtual file system can be created for the shell alone. A good example of
this is the "My Documents" folder.
> >How about Shell extension contexts?
>
> What, precisely, is a "shell extension context"? A shell is just a
> program to Unix (and Linux).
We're talking about the KDE, not Linux.
> >How about Embedding HTML
> >into the desktop (including Java applets)?
>
> That indeed would be very nice. I do not have sufficient knowledge
> of konqueror or kfm to know whether either one them support root
> window drawing or a widget API, though one could always break out
> the source code.
Not something that can just be installed though.
> >How about shell namespace
> >extensions that allow you to create things like the printers or dialup
> >networking folders (Obviously, using the Linux equivelants of these)?
>
> Not sure what a "dialup networking folder" is supposed to do,
> although presumably it handles the grungework of connecting to
> a dialup network. There are a few scripts to handle that,
> kppp for one; presumably, these can be convertable to "doubleclickers".
But nothing to do with the shell itself.
> As for printers, I don't know. I'm not that up on X's version
> of drag and drop.
>
> >How about shortcuts that can be HTTP links?
>
> CGI or PHP. Assuming the "shell" is in fact a browser, admittedly.
Not the same thing. This would be equivelant to a soft link which links to
an HTTP link.
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:32:45 GMT
Jim McNeill wrote:
> No, it doesn't. Not on Red Hat and not on Mandrake 7.0 anyway. It does
> tell me something is missing, but not the RPM I'll find it in.
Yes it does.. it'll say <blah> is needed by, and you'll find an rpm named
<blah>-x.x.x.rpm. I forgot that it leaves off the -x.x.x.rpm but gives the
rest.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc. -
http://www.miguelito.org
Favorite error message: "Out of paper on drive D:" This was produced by a
timeout error on a slow WORM drive and a defective AT/IO card.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:34:36 GMT
"Peter van der Linden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8rctbd$24t8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Since then all the harassment has been from people like you and
> Simon Cooke defending the indefensible. Cooke even posted my home
> address and phone number in an attempt to harass me.
You claimed you weren't harassing him by posting his home and work details.
How can my doing the same be "an attempt to harass you", Peter? That's
contradicting your arguments.
Simon
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:34:41 GMT
"." wrote:
> >> >> > why? are the linux IDE drivers that bad?
> I dont really see why youd WANT to turn it off in a workstation environment,
> but the option is there...
I think he was referring to the drivers question... and no Chad, they're rock
solid. I've even been using the ata-100 patches for two different controllers
in two different machines both doing mirroring on IBM Deskstar drives...
they're rock solid and lightning fast.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc. -
http://www.miguelito.org
Favorite error message: "Out of paper on drive D:" This was produced by a
timeout error on a slow WORM drive and a defective AT/IO card.
------------------------------
From: Nobody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:44:48 -0700
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:20:56 GMT, "James A. Robertson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jonathan Revusky wrote:
>>
>> "James A. Robertson" wrote:
>> >
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > >
>> >
>> > > > I don't believe you have any grounds at all for assuming that "they
>> > > will
>> > > > probably think the accusation is true." You'd have to provide some
>> > > > evidence that someone's real 'good name' can actually be damaged by
>> > > some
>> > > > *anonymous* person on Usenet calling them a racist, an alcoholic, or a
>> > > > pedophile. I don't know of anyone with a good name that would be
>> > > > damaged by such obviously absurd accusations.
>> > >
>> > > Well, actually, a good friend of mine was in a situation (outside
>> > > usenet) where someone made a false accusation that he was a racist. His
>> > > lawyer managed to sort this out and it had to be done quickly, because
>> > > in communities, well, people like gossips. Specially nasty gossips. And
>> > > then people will avoid to be associated with you, because, well, there
>> > > is a sort of suspicious black cloud over you.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Note the term lawyer. If you felt wronged by JTK, then a civil court is
>> > the appropriate forum.
>>
>> Well, Yann doesn't live in the same country and the forum is
>> trans-national, so it's not a practical suggestion.
>>
>
>If a Spanish lawyer can bring charges against Pinochet in Britain, it's
>possible.
>It's also the proper procedure.
>
He didn't bring charges against Pinochet in Britain, it was a request
for extradition.
----
Glenn Davies
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:35:12 GMT
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> El mar, 03 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
> >> But what if it's a million times too slow?
> >
> >Even Prolog was never that slow.
>
> You are not designing prolog either.
And I'm not USING it either.
> >building an end-user platform, not a server, so I don't need to be
> >"fast" as commonly understood.
>
> You would be surprised just how cranky end users get.
Yeah, like *whom*? Me and a whole dozen other people?
> The internal API of the monolithical kernel exists. Ask any device driver
> writer. So it counts. So replacing it with a bettter API is an improvement. So
> you were wrong.
Except that an MK API is not aimed at device drivers.
> >and then *that* counts. The only way out of it is to modularize the
> >system without adding more APIs.
>
> By definition, the more modules you have, the more APIs you have.
Wrong. Some APIs are so transparent that they're never perceived as APIs.
Of course, this doesn't apply to any part of Unix.
> See? I knew I could get you to say something about your genitals. Took a bit
> longer than expected.
Yeah, well what I wanted to say was "I don't give a rat's ass about
the size of my dick so you're not going to make me do something stupid
by insulting my 'manhood'". In fact, I don't give a rat's ass about my
"manhood" either; I transcend such petty and moronic things as gender
and ethnicity.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Peter Van Der Linden's Unfounded Claims & Accusations
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:36:21 GMT
"Peter van der Linden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8rctmc$25fh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> They obviously felt pretty strongly about the matter because their
> website (http://www.braemarinc.com) has also been taken down and
> off the air since Van Sickle's activities were brought to their attention.
Provide proof, one way or another, LIAR.
Proof is not "Why not ask them about it"
Proof is not "Well, I think that's why so it must be the case"
Proof is in this case a direct causal and factual link betweeen Gary posting
here, and the website being taken down.
Admit it Peter -- you don't have the brains or balls to back this up.
Simon
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:37:26 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >Automated stock trading system, you nitwit.
>
> Automated anything systems are merely the algorithmic repetition of a
> human's decision making (the programmer, who is in some form at some
> time paid by the corporation to write the system.
But not at the time that the decision is actually made. Or are you
claiming that he's there "in spirit"?
If I read a book and follow its advice, just who is performing decisions?
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:39:58 GMT
Drestin Black wrote:
> Oh puhlease - I have been using them religiously since 3.64, you haven't a
> clue. I contribute news to one of the most popular nvidia fan sites too. You
> haven't a clue. They are solid.
Well, from my experience, until the detonator 3 drivers came out, the drivers
for w2k were complete shit. I tried every driver I could get from Asus and
nvida for my V6800 I had, as well as every driver from Creative and nvidia for
my newer Annihilator 2... and every driver (until nvidia's det 3) would BS
fairly regularly in 2k. 98 was much more stable... but then it would crash
for other reasons.
I have to admit, 2k (with the det3 drivers) is definately much better for
gaming then 98 was. As long as it's a newer game of course, some old ones
still won't run well (if at all).
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc. -
http://www.miguelito.org
Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?
Linux: the maintainable OS.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:46:52 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> [...]
>> >Jesus, Max. Stop chianging your mind so much. I'm starting to suspect
>that
>> >you're actually disociative.
>>
>> Stop trying to hand-wave the fact that you can't manage to understand
>> what I wrote; other people don't seem to have as much trouble. I
>> haven't changed my mind, my remarks, or my opinions (save to lower my
>> opinion of you) since this conversation began; merely the comments I've
>> made to express them. You fail to grasp the meaning of my words, and
>> then think its appropriate to ridicule me for your failure?
>
>Just let us know after the doctors have "cured" you. I'm not going to pull
>any more hair out trying to understand your incomprehensible babble.
Thank god for small favors.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:45:30 -0300
El mar, 03 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> El mar, 03 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
>> >> But what if it's a million times too slow?
>> >
>> >Even Prolog was never that slow.
>>
>> You are not designing prolog either.
>
>And I'm not USING it either.
Pity. Nice language.
>> >building an end-user platform, not a server, so I don't need to be
>> >"fast" as commonly understood.
>>
>> You would be surprised just how cranky end users get.
>
>Yeah, like *whom*? Me and a whole dozen other people?
You should release an application aimed at end users sometime, and have actual
end users use it.
>> The internal API of the monolithical kernel exists. Ask any device driver
>> writer. So it counts. So replacing it with a bettter API is an improvement. So
>> you were wrong.
>
>Except that an MK API is not aimed at device drivers.
It is, among others. It's an example.
>> >and then *that* counts. The only way out of it is to modularize the
>> >system without adding more APIs.
>>
>> By definition, the more modules you have, the more APIs you have.
>
>Wrong. Some APIs are so transparent that they're never perceived as APIs.
>Of course, this doesn't apply to any part of Unix.
That doesn't make them not APIs.
>> See? I knew I could get you to say something about your genitals. Took a bit
>> longer than expected.
>
>Yeah, well what I wanted to say was "I don't give a rat's ass about
>the size of my dick so you're not going to make me do something stupid
>by insulting my 'manhood'". In fact, I don't give a rat's ass about my
>"manhood" either; I transcend such petty and moronic things as gender
>and ethnicity.
You are indeed a trascendent piece of work.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:46:04 GMT
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> One of the users favourite complaints is regarding escalating system
> requirements. It seems that "Dick" is listening more to him self than
> he is the "end users". Which is hardly surprising, because I've yet to
> see him listen to anyone besides himself in this thread.
I would if you or Roberto had anything worth listening to (modulo the
isolated exception of getting a book on language patterns -- exactly
what I've been missing actually).
And since Unix people are not going to be my end users, I hardly need
waste time listening to their irrelevant demands. Performance is no
more a requirement for me (as an end user) than Unix compatibility.
------------------------------
From: D. Spider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why I hate Windows...
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:47:25 -0400
It appears that on Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:25:32 -0000, in
comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>Ugh... I hate web front ends to email... such as hotmail. Makes everything
>>so difficult to use and slow.
>>
>>Outlook 2000 is an awesome mail client... hell, I even like the new
>>assistants (the kitty cat comes to mind). I know it sounds trivial, but I
>>actually am growing attached to it. :)
>>
>>Anyway, I guess if using Linux is more important that having a decent email
>>package...
>
> ...which is not how I would characterize Outlook.
>
> Outlook actually gave me a new found appreciation for ccmail.
>
>[deletia]
>
> Nevermind there was no actual specification of what "decent" is
> and why none of the Linux mail clients achieve this definition.
It seems, for this particular poster, "decent" means working like
Outhouse does. A very different criteria than I use, obviously. But
there are several Outhouse clones available for X, so apparently
someone else agrees with him.
#####################################################
My email address is posted for purposes of private
correspondence only. Consent is expressly NOT given
to receive advertisements, or bulk mailings of any
kind.
#####################################################
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:54:36 GMT
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> Trading the stock of a corporation is not an action of the corporation, unless
> the corporation is selling or buying. If the corporation is selling or buying,
> some employee of it took the decision to use a certain algorithm to do so. The
> selling and buying is an action of that employee.
No, it's not. It's an action of the computer system left in place by a
consultant who has long since been fired, passed away and is now rotting
in his grave.
> >Assembly line full of robots doing spot welding.
>
> Someone programmed the robots, someone designed the robots, someone decided "we
> need a lot of robots welding things". All those someones cause the robots
> welding. The welding is an action of them.
You're a fucking moron. Those "someones" are not part of the corporation
(they may not even exist anymore) but the robot is!
> >Email support. Web sites On and on and on..
>
> Again, easily reducible to human actions.
Not reducible *at all*! Not anymore than evolutionary theory is
reducible to physics.
> Because the effector is a tool, it
> doesn't mean the tool is the actor. When you hammer a nail, you are hammering a
> nail, not the hammer.
And if the hammer falls down on a nail without your knowledge
then are you still hammering it because you left it in a position
such that it might fall?
------------------------------
From: D. Spider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why I hate Windows...
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:56:35 -0400
It appears that on Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:30:00 -0000, in
comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>So, you may not think that is anything special, but it costs a hell of a lot
>>of money in development costs and coordination to make sure 98 is flawless
>>in this regard. It is perhaps more important to MS than stability -- if the
>>common consumer can't install it, then stability means nothing at all.
>>
>>> Think about it, what do
>>> you do with a computer with only windows on it?
>>
>>1) Do my development work on the best dev. tools available (InterDev and
>>Visual)
>>2) Do my office work on the best productivity platform (Office 2000)
>
> Why, EXACTLY, is it the best?
I'd love to hear the answer to that myself. I have to use it
occasionally, and I find it absolutely infuriating - the occasional
crash I can handle, although it's annoying, but a program that thinks
it knows better than I do what I intend to put in a file and edits me
without my permission is totally unacceptable to me. I can only
imagine it being considered "good" by someone that has such poor
typing, layout, and language skills that its "corrections" are
actually correct fairly often.
>>3) Play the best games available (MS Allegiance, Diablo 2, AOK, StarLancer,
>>and soon Tribes2 !! -- yah)
>
> This is purely subjective.
Well, it's not subjective to say that game availability is better on
WinDOS. For people that use their computer extensively for game-play,
this is an issue, although it's definately gotten a lot better thanks
to the work of folks like Loki.
For working, as opposed to playing games, however, Linux has the clear
edge in my view.
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