Linux-Advocacy Digest #453, Volume #29 Wed, 4 Oct 00 17:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Migration --> NT costing please :-) (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin! ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: GPL & freedom ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux? ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: Linux? ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux and Free Internet? (Karen Rosin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (junekis)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Roberto
Alsina)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Migration --> NT costing please :-)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:05:36 GMT
On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:58:08 GMT,
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > 1) 2xNT4 or Window 2000 Server licenses to provide RAID1 on both computers.
:
: Windows 2000 professional will do all this.
Don't read those license agreements much, do you? Win2k Pro is not to be
used as a web server platform. You need to buck up at least $800 per
copy for Win2k Server.
: At my current employer I hear the phrase, "The mail server is down again,
: it should be back up after a reboot". The mail server, of course, being
: a Linux mail server. I imagine there will be only a few more of these before
: our management complains that they are missing emails.
Hmm.. Since your "evidence" is anecdotal, I'll counter with an anecdote of
my own. Here's our mail server at work:
[cliff:jcostom](03:57pm)
/home/jcostom$ uptime
3:57pm up 103 days, 7:05, 1 user, load average: 0.33, 0.20, 0.21
The last time it was rebooted was for a kernel upgrade. Before that,
it as up for about 180 days.
A couple of web servers:
(2 large sites, a servlet engine, single P-III/550)
[cipher:jcostom](03:02pm)
/home/jcostom$ uptime
3:02pm up 107 days, 6:55, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
(74 small sites, a servlet engine, single P-III/650)
[deathstar:jcostom](03:42pm)
/home/jcostom$ uptime
3:42pm up 111 days, 59 min, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
A DNS Server:
[fuzzy:jcostom](03:42pm)
/home/jcostom$ uptime
3:42PM up 324 days, 6:54, 1 user, load average: 0.17, 0.11, 0.09
: > Or more importantly, who really believes MS can sustain a lower TCO if a
: > MS solution is indeed more attractive at this point in time?
:
: Everyone who has deployed an MS solution properly and is reaping the
: benefits.
Like my friends who work at a large insurance company's data center down
the road here (in NJ)? Their standard operating procedure is to reboot
anything running NT or 2000 every Sunday night at 7:00PM. Their bluescreens
have been cut by 2/3 since instituting weekly reboots... They do "wacky"
things like run Compaq Proliants with 100% Compaq-sanctioned hardware,
with all of their "special" Windows installs (to accomodate the Compaq
butchered hardware), and such crazy applications as SQL Server and Exchange.
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin!
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:01:54 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message ...
>http://netscape.zdnet.com/framer/hud0022420/www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news
/0,4586,2635894,00.html
>
>claire
I don't suppose this would be an attempt to kill off corel's support of the
wine project would it?
I wouldn't be surprised if VMWARE get buyout offers from microsoft next,
anything to prevent
linux users from being able to run windows applications under other
operating systems.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:18:16 -0700
"Jon A. Maxwell (JAM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8rftu4$10f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> | In which case -- why would I write the book in the first place,
> | when I can be a short-order cook instead and put bread on the
> | table?
>
> To get the name that allows you to make profits on the speaking
> engagements. Or because you want to and love doing it. One
> advantage of having a huge networked world is that there's bound to
> be plenty of people that do things just for the love of doing them.
> Like Linux, stories and music might be created the same way, and with
> greater quality than those created for sale.
The thing is, until you get to a Star-Trek style utopian society where money
is no object, it's still not going to work satisfactorily for everyone.
Also, there's nothing to stop stories and music being created for free
*now*. This is the thing: it's perfectly possible to do so with the law as
it is today. However, removing copyright protection from those who want to
make a living out of this is not a good thing.
If your model works, then *great*. It'll kill off the old model eventually
by itself. It does not need the help of removing the ability for people to
make a living out of creating intellectual property for it to overturn the
old model. If it works, it'll take over on its own.
And that's the issue here: I don't mind if it takes over on its own. But
there's nothing here that's incompatible with the existing model.
One of my room-mates is an artist. Personally, I think his stuff is the
hottest I've ever seen. (It's very Dave McKean). He recently quit his job as
a store clerk to concentrate on working on art full time. He's scraping by.
However, he keeps negatives and positives of everything he does, so that at
some point, he can sell posters.
Without copyright protection, he can't do that.
Simon
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:30:38 GMT
To be honest, I really don't know what the implications are. I suspect
that it is not good for Open Source in any event though.
claire
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:01:54 +0100, "Nigel Feltham"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message ...
>>http://netscape.zdnet.com/framer/hud0022420/www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news
>/0,4586,2635894,00.html
>>
>>claire
>
>I don't suppose this would be an attempt to kill off corel's support of the
>wine project would it?
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if VMWARE get buyout offers from microsoft next,
>anything to prevent
>linux users from being able to run windows applications under other
>operating systems.
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux?
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:28:10 +0100
>That's not quite the case today. Mandrake is made in France, and
>originally *was* a slightly modified Red Hat with KDE as the default
>desktop, but it has diverged significantly from Red Hat since that
>time. It also serves a different market. Mandrake is primarily
>desktop-oriented while Red Hat is primarily aimed at the server and
>workstation markets.
>
And I thought it was redhat recompiled with pentuim optimisation (redhat
and most other linuxes only have 386 optimisation so run slightly slower
though most users may not notice the speed difference).
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux?
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:32:18 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message <8r4qqn$rb9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Red Hat is the most popular distribution used today due to it's
>invention of RPM.
>
Does it really matter which linux disto is the most popular anyway
different distro's
tend to be used by different groups of users - hardcore users prefer caldera
or
slakware, general users go for mandrake, suse, redhat, etc). The only thing
that
matters is that the total use for all distro's is gaining in popularity and
support.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin!
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:33:51 GMT
In article <8rg2nn$hk61g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message ...
>
>http://netscape.zdnet.com/framer/hud0022420/www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/
news
> /0,4586,2635894,00.html
> >
> >claire
>
> I don't suppose this would be an attempt to kill off corel's support
> of the wine project would it?
Doubt it. More likely, to stall future endevours to port the Corel
office suite to Linux, forcing people back to the Win OS.
Smart business move. Those bastards.
-ws
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 23:40:57 +0200
From: Karen Rosin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and Free Internet?
Well said!!!
And how newbie linux users will be happier in your opinion?
Brian Langenberger wrote:
> . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <idea snipped>
>
> : Oh I see. In order for linux to 'succeed' (whatever that means), it has
> : to make YOU happy.
>
> I didn't find the word "succeed" in the original post after a few
> re-readings, so I'm not sure where that comes from. But ultimately,
> if Linux+free software (which I shall refer to collectively as "Linux")
> is going to be popular with people, thus attracting more users,
> thus attracting more developers/bug reports/bug fixes, then making
> them happy isn't such a bad idea. And, the typical way to do that
> is to fix their bugs, consider their feature requests and
> encourage all manner of contributions - code or otherwise.
>
> Happy users are helpful users, I figure.
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:45:09 GMT
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> Someone makes the decision. Decisions don't surge out of a vacuum.
Some cell has to create the thought. Thoughts don't surge out of a vacuum.
You're a fucking moron. How many times has it been that I've had to explain
this? Corporate decisions are no more ascribable to individual humans than
human thoughts are ascribable to individual neurons. And you STILL don't
fucking get it! You STILL think that "all thoughts must be traceable to
individual neurons or else thoughts can't possibly exist" <-- either that
or you believe that human thought is *magical*. IMBECILE!
> >Perhaps if you ever bothered thinking about what I write long enough
> >to respond intelligently you would see the substance behind my words.
>
> I do think. I see smoke and insults. If it's because of my inadequacies or
> yours, I leave to the public to decide.
Someone has actually made a study showing that cretins never learn
precisely because they refuse to believe they're cretins. Wish I had
the clipping.
> >The manager does not have any independent will in regards to these matters.
>
> Nonsense. He has the power to make certain decisions, other managers have the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> power to make others. But those he makes, are his.
This isn't any kind of meaningful power on the scale of the corporation,
only enough to dominate people lower down in the corporate hierarchy.
Even the CEO does not have the power necessary to remake a corporation
for the better.
But anyone who bothered to READ what I wrote would've understood that fact.
------------------------------
From: junekis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.lang.c,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 17:10:50 -0400
==============7B5661B37D812149B9B7D4FE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
2 + 2 wrote:
> Frédéric G. MARAND wrote in message
> <8rfbc9$eml$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >
> >2 + 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
> >8rf209$npo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> M$ doesn't sell hardware.
> >
> >You should tell that to Logitech, Genius, Cherry, and a bunch of others
> .....
>
> Naturally you clipped the context showing we were discussing computer
> systems....
Just as you clipped the reference to the X-box from the original post....
--
++ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | sgi ++
++ John Unekis | 11785 Beltsville Dr #1300 ++
++ Customer Education | Beltsville, MD 20705 ++
++ Customer and Prof. Services | tel# 301.572.3141 ++
==============7B5661B37D812149B9B7D4FE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
2 + 2 wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Frédéric G. MARAND wrote in message
<br><8rfbc9$eml$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
<br>>
<br>>2 + 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
<br>>8rf209$npo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<br>>> M$ doesn't sell hardware.
<br>>
<br>>You should tell that to Logitech, Genius, Cherry, and a bunch of others
<br>.....
<p>Naturally you clipped the context showing we were discussing computer
<br>systems....</blockquote>
Just as you clipped the reference to the X-box from the original post....
<br>
<pre>--
++ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
+sgi
+ ++
++ John
+Unekis
+ | 11785 Beltsville Dr #1300 ++
++ Customer
+Education
+| Beltsville, MD
+20705 ++
++ Customer and Prof. Services | tel#
+301.572.3141
+ ++</pre>
</html>
==============7B5661B37D812149B9B7D4FE==
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:55:40 -0300
El mié, 04 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> Someone makes the decision. Decisions don't surge out of a vacuum.
>
>Some cell has to create the thought. Thoughts don't surge out of a vacuum.
>
>You're a fucking moron. How many times has it been that I've had to explain
>this? Corporate decisions are no more ascribable to individual humans than
>human thoughts are ascribable to individual neurons. And you STILL don't
>fucking get it!
Maybve I don't get it because it's not true. I could decide right now that we
need 10 new computers to provide for another classroom. Or I could decide we
don't. In both cases, it's a corporate decision (the corporation gets the
classroom), and it is a decision *I* make, noone else.
>You STILL think that "all thoughts must be traceable to
>individual neurons or else thoughts can't possibly exist" <-- either that
>or you believe that human thought is *magical*. IMBECILE!
Or I think the analogy between humans in a corporation and neurons in the brain
is flawed, as I have said a hundred times. Add this to the list of ways in
which that analogy is flawed: decisions in corporations are traceable to
individuals, thoughts in the brain are not traceable to neurons.
>> >Perhaps if you ever bothered thinking about what I write long enough
>> >to respond intelligently you would see the substance behind my words.
>>
>> I do think. I see smoke and insults. If it's because of my inadequacies or
>> yours, I leave to the public to decide.
>
>Someone has actually made a study showing that cretins never learn
>precisely because they refuse to believe they're cretins. Wish I had
>the clipping.
Wish you saw the irony.
>> >The manager does not have any independent will in regards to these matters.
>>
>> Nonsense. He has the power to make certain decisions, other managers have the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> power to make others. But those he makes, are his.
>
>This isn't any kind of meaningful power on the scale of the corporation,
>only enough to dominate people lower down in the corporate hierarchy.
>Even the CEO does not have the power necessary to remake a corporation
>for the better.
According to you, he could turn the corporation into a cooperative.
>But anyone who bothered to READ what I wrote would've understood that fact.
Would you bother understanding what I write, you wouldn't have to write so much.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
