Linux-Advocacy Digest #488, Volume #29 Fri, 6 Oct 00 14:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Slackware (John Sanders)
Does anybody offer free Linux access?~! (JoeX1029)
Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time? (Plato)
Re: To all you WinTrolls (Pan)
Re: To all you WinTrolls (Roberto Alsina)
Re: How low can they go...? (Gregory L. Hansen)
food for thought...flame suit on ("MH")
Re: 2.4! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande] ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin!
Re: Does anybody offer free Linux access?~!
Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande] ("David T. Johnson")
Re: The real issue
Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for? (Aaron Ginn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Slackware
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:32:45 -0500
Coconut Ming wrote:
>
> hhee
> stupid question
> anyway
> Who can define slackware in proper form for me?
> thanks....
>
> from
> kok ming
"In America, our names don't mean shit."
Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction
But, in general, slackware means you get a distribution that's easy to
install pretty much exactly what you want and only what you want and
have it run the way you want. You don't end up with some wanna-be
windows system. It's the best system to run on a PC if you want to
learn UNIX. It's the best for learning system administration too. You
should do your own system administration. System administration by icon
is a joke.
--
John W. Sanders
===============
"there" in or at a place.
"their" of or relating to them.
"they're" contraction of 'they are'.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029)
Subject: Does anybody offer free Linux access?~!
Date: 06 Oct 2000 16:52:35 GMT
this most likely isnt the right group but since most of you have Linux boxes on
the net i'll ask anyway: Does anyone offer FREE or low(er) cost dialup access
in IL???
------------------------------
From: Plato <|@|.|>
Crossposted-To: alt.windows98
Subject: Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:59:01 -0400
Dan wrote:
>
> Whew ! I read thru over 100 posts here. I was looking for the answer to
> the original post. All I read were arguments about this vs that. Kinda
> reminded me on being in Jr High School, mine is better than yours...
> So, did they ever find out what makes Windows98 freeze up all the time?
Yeah its the apps folks install that mucks it up. Crashguards, real in
the background, beta ware folks download at the drop of a hat to have
the laterst version, 3 background anti-virus scanners running, folks
installing ware and NOT closing their backgound apps prior to doing so,
clogged temporary internet folders, bloated netscape.hst files, NOT
doing a scandisk/defrag in years, trying to run windows with Broker
Class Ram, shitty winmodems, $5.00 power supplies in aluminum foil cases
with no second fan
--
http://www.bootdisk.com/
------------------------------
From: Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To all you WinTrolls
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:40:57 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Todd wrote:
> But it isn't nearly as good as Windows 2000 nor as feature complete. Heck,
> most UNIX are way better than Linux as well. For example, HP-UX / Solaris /
> FreeBSD.
What "features" do you get with a BSD or Solaris, or HP-UX, that you
don't get with linux? Just curious because I though I've been using
linux since 1996, I haven't used Solaris for roughly 5 years, and I've
never used BSD or HP-UX and most of the people who say things like that
are simply parroting what they've heard elsewhere.
--
Pan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To all you WinTrolls
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:18:41 -0300
El vie, 06 oct 2000, Pan escribió:
>Todd wrote:
>
>> But it isn't nearly as good as Windows 2000 nor as feature complete. Heck,
>> most UNIX are way better than Linux as well. For example, HP-UX / Solaris /
>> FreeBSD.
>
>What "features" do you get with a BSD or Solaris, or HP-UX, that you
>don't get with linux? Just curious because I though I've been using
>linux since 1996, I haven't used Solaris for roughly 5 years, and I've
>never used BSD or HP-UX and most of the people who say things like that
>are simply parroting what they've heard elsewhere.
Well, on Solaris you get a shell without command history, a broken
international keyboard mapping for X, a tendency to corrupt the display if you
don't run xconsole, CDE, a broken vi, a larger memory footprint, and no support
for cheap hardware (like IDE CD-recorders).
You don't get any of that with Linux ;-)
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gregory L. Hansen)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: 6 Oct 2000 17:15:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>>You are only known as a liar and as a
>> thief if you get away with lying and theft.
>
>
>Wrong
You are only known as a liar and as a thief if you *don't* get away with
lying and theft.
--
"A good plan executed right now is far better than a perfect plan
executed next week."
-Gen. George S. Patton
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: food for thought...flame suit on
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:18:55 -0400
Taken from:
http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/MontyManley/MontyManley15.html
The Failure of Linux: Credibility and Responsibility
10/4/00
By Monty Manley
There are many operating systems on the market that are better designed and
more capable than Linux, even other free operating systems -- most good
software engineers consider the *BSD flavors to be technically better than
Linux. But Linux got the all-important "mindshare" of developers not because
it was better, but because it was popular.
So Linux drew many programmers who were exactly the wrong kind of people for
the environment: young people without much real-world training, and who
often had a philosophical axe to grind.
Good Software Is Engineering First, Art Second
Linux seems to have bred an entire class of programmers who believe that
programming is first and foremost about self-expression and community
involvement. While these things are clearly important, they undermine the
essential component of good software: design. By treating their craft
essentially as a hobby, Linux programmers distance themselves from their
users. There are no release dates, no guarantees, and no promises.
A quick look at freshmeat.net lists the reams of software being written,
most of it for Linux, and damned little of it unit-tested, much less
system-tested. Will application x cooperate with application y? Will daemon
x coexist peacefully with the MTA? Does application x fail gracefully? Odds
are very good that the programmer didn't think about any of this, much less
test for it, and expects his hapless users to do his QA for him.
The act of writing computer code is actually a small part of the overall
software design process, and yet far too many Linux projects focus solely on
this one area. It is why Linux breeds good programmers but lousy engineers.
Linux programmers tend to place a very low value on accountability and
personal responsibility, and the community is poorer for it. (This is not to
tar all Linux developers with the same brush: a few teams are marvelously
responsive and work hard to do testing before the software is released. But
these teams are a tiny exception to a very large rule.)
The "Freeloader" Culture
I think that even Richard Stallman would agree that free software is about
intellectual honesty: if you stand on the shoulders of giants to see
farther, then give the giant credit where credit is due, and let others use
your shoulders to see farther still. Yet many Linux advocates (even those
who should know better) seem to focus on the "free" aspect above all else,
to the extent that many younger programmers now expect anything digital to
be free. Music, literature, movies, sourcecode, whatever. It has bred an
entire generation of freeloaders.
Understand me: I believe that free software is a good thing. When used
correctly, it is a hugely powerful tool for the production of quality
software. But quality software is the goal, and Free Software is a way (not
the only way) to get there. If Free Software does not meet this goal, it
does not serve the commonwealth and should be abandoned. Bad software is a
blight, whether it's free or not.
It's an odd fact that many of the most irrational and vociferous OS zealots
are not themselves programmers (or at least not experienced ones). Linux,
more than any other OS, suffers from a surfeit of testosterone-poisoned
young men who know little but speak much, and the whole community suffers
from it. They want things free simply because they don't want to pay. Saying
that charging for software is ethically wrong is only a dodge; they just
don't want to part with any dough. They are, in a word, punks. And Linux has
far too many of them.
This surfeit of freeloader zealots has had an unfortunate side-effect: many
companies have felt themselves forced into GPLing their bread-and-butter
products (as with Trolltech's QT) just to stay in the good graces of the
community. The GPL is a fine license, but it isn't for everyone, and it has
weaknesses that can stymie future development. I think some software houses
have been made to feel guilty about charging for their wares, as if their
talent and effort are somehow less important than the will of the community.
I think most experienced programmers would agree that it is not only silly
but morally wrong to deny someone a fair price for a good product, and yet
that is all too often what the Linux hordes do to smaller software
companies.
Quality software cannot thrive in a "freeloader" ecosystem, and yet this is
increasingly what the Linux space is turning into. Good software takes time,
talent, and effort to produce, and those who produce it deserve to be
rewarded.
Final Thoughts
As I get older, I get more disillusioned with the direction software is
taking. Instead of getting better, it's getting worse at an almost geometric
rate. In spite of all the "open source means quality code" rhetoric, Linux
has become the poster-child for buggy and idiosyncratic software. There are
a few shining exclusions to this general rule, but these exceptions only
show the defects in a harsher light.
It's difficult for programmers to be serious about quality these days.
Software is driven by many forces -- marketing, PR, or ego -- which are not
concerned with quality. But the truth is that we, the programmers, are in
ultimate control. We are responsible.
============================================================================
----
Author's background:
============================================================================
----
Monty Manley is 33 years old and has been programming for more than half his
life, on everything from a Vic 20 to an IBM 390 mainframe. He forms part of
the hated power elite of white males who hold down programming jobs. He
currently lives in Minnesota with his wife, two cats, two rats, and a mole
who decided to make a home in his front yard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: 2.4!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:21:19 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, pp@p
<pp@p>
wrote
on 5 Oct 2000 19:55:26 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <8rj71c$mvq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steve says...
>
>>
>>Never would you see a good UNIX programmer using something like
>>DWORD in his code.
>
>use Java, and you never have to worry about any of this.
>for example, in Java, an int is the same size everywhere.
>
>java solves many portability problems.
And creates others. For example, how does one do a password prompt
in Java, using only device or file streams or readers? (Yeah, I know
there's a GUI solution -- JPasswordField or TextField.setEchoChar('*').)
There's no equivalent to ncurses' noecho() or raw() modes.
At least, not in 1.2.2; maybe 1.3 or 1.4 will have it.
Or maybe not.
Still, I like Java, despite its limitations.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande]
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:26:35 -0400
Marty wrote:
>
>
> How many more "attack-the-person" threads are you going to launch after
> whining about such things, hypocritical troll?
Another nonsensical, illogical comment.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Corel bailed out by MS? Let the games begin!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:36:46 -0000
On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:55:14 -0400, Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
aye means yes.
>
>>
>> Marriage, n.:
>> The evil aye.
>
>Not the evil I do?
>
>Colin Day
>
--
"If a camel flies, no one laughs if it doesn't get very far."
-- Paul White
Unfair animal names:
-- tsetse fly -- bullhead
-- booby -- duck-billed platypus
-- sapsucker -- Clarence
-- Gary Larson
If all the world's economists were laid end to end, we wouldn't reach a
conclusion.
-- William Baumol
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Does anybody offer free Linux access?~!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:37:47 -0000
On 06 Oct 2000 16:52:35 GMT, JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>this most likely isnt the right group but since most of you have Linux boxes on
>the net i'll ask anyway: Does anyone offer FREE or low(er) cost dialup access
>in IL???
I imagine you should be able to get hooked up to
megsinet for 10 bux a month...
--
Do not drink coffee in early A.M. It will keep you awake until noon.
Men love to wonder, and that is the seed of science.
"Ada is PL/I trying to be Smalltalk.
-- Codoso diBlini
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande]
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:42:33 -0400
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > Marty wrote:
> > >
> > > "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Aaron R. Kulkis has posted a total of at least 256 unique messages in
> > > > comp.os.os2.advocacy during the month of September, 2000 on five related
> > > > threads, none of which have anything to do with OS/2, OS/2 advocacy,
> > > > computer software, or even computers:
> > >
> > > The hypocrisy continues! :-)
> >
> > The nonsense posts continue!
>
> make it stop!
> make it stop!
>
> Besides....only a MORON reads comp.os.os2.*
> OS
> OS/2 = -- = 1/2(OS)
> 2
Now there's a technical comment...
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: The real issue
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:49:32 -0000
On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:44:17 +0900, Osugi Sakae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:15:17 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
[deletia]
>> And you have a problem answering direct questions.
>>
>>> Repeating something more times does not constitute proof.
>>>
>>>[deletia]
>>
>> Neither does statements like Mandrake is just the OS...
>
>So, please tell us exactly what it is that that mp3 program does for you
>that makes you so proud of it. In a previous post, you mentioned "scanning
>your hard disk for new mp3s" (or something like that). Why do you need
>that? Do you not know where you put new mp3s? Do new songs just appear on
>your disk at random intervals?
[deletia]
Some necessary and useful things for me for such an 'mp3 console'
would be:
Random playlist generation and mastering to disc (CDR)
based on criteria including Genres.
Full back of the entire mp3 collection in an organized and
relatively optimal fashion. A simple backup utility
that targets to CDR would also be suitable for this
sort of thing.
Multilevel organization in playlists such that you can
randomize based on album or album collection and
not just track.
Also, how does this 'mp3 console' deal with the whole issue of
bitrate in such a way that my mother in law (she can't even use
a preinstalled WinDOS scanner & associated software) could
actually deal with this application.
--
Your object is to save the world, while still leading a pleasant life.
Oh wearisome condition of humanity!
Born under one law, to another bound.
-- Fulke Greville, Lord Brooke
Distance doesn't make you any smaller, but it does make you part of a
larger picture.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
Date: 06 Oct 2000 10:19:44 -0700
Okay, here's an opportunity for some real advocacy. The debates about
how Linux or NT/W2K provide a better desktop than the other are
neverending in COLA (I don't read COMNA, so I can't comment there). I
want to hear what you all use your desktop OS of choice for and why it
is a better solution for you than the alternatives. I'll start...
I do IC CAD design on Solaris at Motorola. Linux provides me with a
free OS and networking tools to allow me to work from home on a cheap
Pentium II. I have a real X-Windows implementation in XFree86 instead
of a slow emulator like Exceed on NT, and I have all the tools at my
disposal to allow me to run and monitor jobs remotely just as I would
if I was in front of my terminal at work. All these tools were
available to me for the cost of the bandwidth used to download my
distro of choice, which is actually nothing since my employer pays
for my cable modem. No Microsoft OS of any variety offers me anything
of similar functionality in terms of ease of use or cost.
Not that I don't use Windows at all; I have a dual-boot Win98 box. I
actually do most of my browsing under Windows. Linux, OTOH, is what I
use for real work, not play.
Now it's your turn. What do you use your desktop for, and why does
you OS do the job better than the alternatives?
--
Aaron J. Ginn Phone: 480-814-4463
Motorola SemiCustom Solutions Pager: 877-586-2318
1300 N. Alma School Rd. Fax : 480-814-4463
Chandler, AZ 85226 M/D CH260 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
