Linux-Advocacy Digest #504, Volume #29 Sat, 7 Oct 00 13:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Donovan
Rebbechi)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (The Ghost In
The Machine)
Re: The Power of the Future! ("Gabriele Del Giovine")
Re: Does anybody offer free Linux access?~! ("mlhickok")
Re: Unix rules in Redmond (The Ghost In The Machine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:12:02 -0400
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:_9wD5.1535$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >So what would you suggest we do with illiterate, untrained people?
> > Export them?
> > > >Hang them? I think that converting them into productive members of
> > society is
> > > >probably the most long-term-positive option. And who exactly is going to
> > pay for
> > > >that?
> > > >
> > > Themselves, their families, their employer.
> >
> > Let's say an "illiterate, untrained" person is my brother, son or uncle, the
> > question is: why should that person be entitled to a penny of my income
> > unless I wish to donate it to him? It's just the same as with people I
> > don't know, right?
> >
> > Answer: by helping those, I help myself. I contribute to another human
> > being, even unknown to me, because I am able to do so. I, for one, don't
> > really complain about the taxes I pay (and boy, do we pay them!).
>
> Idealistic hogwash. The reality is, worthless people take advantage of
> the system and bilk it (aka you and I) for everything it's worth.
>
> By giving people a cushion, you are telling them it's ok not to
> achieve because no matter what happens, you'll always be taken care of.
>
> It's kind of like the son of a rich father who goes out and causes
> all sorts of problems, wastes his and his father's money because he
> knows that at the end of the day, his father will bail him out.
>
> The Government should not be anyone's father. Perhaps limited welfare,
> a month or two's worth of minimum wage salary every couple years would
> be adequate. We've created a nation of dependant and corrupt individuals
> who will never be able to get a job or sustain themselves. The longer
> we keep catering to these people, the more of these people we create and
> the more and more of society becomes dependant upon the government until
> eventually, there are more people living from the government or working
> for it then there are private sector individuals.
Actually, when Michigan Governor John Engler issued an executive order
mandating that ALL able-bodied adults be removed from General Assistance
in 6 months time....the namby-pamby hand-wringing liberal whiners were
all sniveling about how we would soon see people starving in the streets
of Michigan.
7 years later, ALL of those former leeches are not only working, but
have such an improved standard of living, that MANY went out on the
campaign trail WITH Engler to tell how this 'tough-love' approach
was FAR more beneficial to their lives than the Democrats handouts
and coddling ever were.
>
> America wasn't build on handouts, and it shouldn't be sustained on them.
>
> Freedom doesn't come free. If you want handouts, go to Europe where socialism
> is king.
>
> -Chad
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:13:02 -0400
STATIC66 wrote:
>
> On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 02:48:36 GMT, "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >> >So what would you suggest we do with illiterate, untrained people?
> >Export them?
> >> >Hang them? I think that converting them into productive members of
> >society is
> >> >probably the most long-term-positive option. And who exactly is going to
> >pay for
> >> >that?
> >> >
> >> Themselves, their families, their employer.
> >
> >Let's say an "illiterate, untrained" person is my brother, son or uncle, the
> >question is: why should that person be entitled to a penny of my income
> >unless I wish to donate it to him? It's just the same as with people I
> >don't know, right?
> >
> >Answer: by helping those, I help myself. I contribute to another human
> >being, even unknown to me, because I am able to do so. I, for one, don't
> >really complain about the taxes I pay (and boy, do we pay them!).
> >
> >Bye!
> >
> >- Joe
> >
> You are correct they are not "ENTITLED" to any money except that which
> they EARN. I know I am saving for my childrens education. I started
> when the first born was IN THE WOMB. Why because I care, not because
> he is entitled to a dime of it. And I was "poor" that hole time. I
> could have gotten welfare, I choose a second job. I choose to scrape
> and scratch and get educated. Now I make a decent living. (even though
> 40% of it is stolen from me) Just because others feel they can't
> accomplish this does not "ENTITLE" them to my money. I have worked
> hard to reach my current level in life and don't feel I should fund
> someone else unless I decide to.
> >
Damn straight.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 15:23:56 GMT
Professional level Digital Audio recording and restoration done under
Win98se which despite all it's technical on paper design flaws (most
of which are real), has been absolutley flawless for me. Each version
has improved the stability and features, at least for what I use.
I would use Win2k or better still Linux (I could save a fortune using
Open Source) but the programs are not there for Linux, and the Win
NT/2k programs are actually not as good as their Win98 versions.
claire
On 06 Oct 2000 10:19:44 -0700, Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>Okay, here's an opportunity for some real advocacy. The debates about
>how Linux or NT/W2K provide a better desktop than the other are
>neverending in COLA (I don't read COMNA, so I can't comment there). I
>want to hear what you all use your desktop OS of choice for and why it
>is a better solution for you than the alternatives. I'll start...
>
>I do IC CAD design on Solaris at Motorola. Linux provides me with a
>free OS and networking tools to allow me to work from home on a cheap
>Pentium II. I have a real X-Windows implementation in XFree86 instead
>of a slow emulator like Exceed on NT, and I have all the tools at my
>disposal to allow me to run and monitor jobs remotely just as I would
>if I was in front of my terminal at work. All these tools were
>available to me for the cost of the bandwidth used to download my
>distro of choice, which is actually nothing since my employer pays
>for my cable modem. No Microsoft OS of any variety offers me anything
>of similar functionality in terms of ease of use or cost.
>
>Not that I don't use Windows at all; I have a dual-boot Win98 box. I
>actually do most of my browsing under Windows. Linux, OTOH, is what I
>use for real work, not play.
>
>Now it's your turn. What do you use your desktop for, and why does
>you OS do the job better than the alternatives?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: 7 Oct 2000 16:14:56 GMT
On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:06:11 GMT, Richard wrote:
>Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> THis is almost incoherent. It sounds like you want classes to be objects
>> because that's what you're used to. I don't see why it's essential that
>> classes be objects, though sometimes it's useful.
>
>There you go again, claiming that ease of use isn't an overriding
>concern in any large system (eg, any modern programming language).
I'm not claiming this.
>Classes have to be objects so that people know exactly what to
>expect from them without having to memorize yet another factoid
I don't think it's that hard to understand classes. In fact I think it's
harder to understand classes-as-objects.
>Considering you need all the help you can get, I'll let that pass.
>Object Oriented Software Construction talks a lot about information
>hiding and encapsulation. IIRC it doesn't get around to polymorphism
>and inheritance for a while. Of course, this was years and years ago.
Information hiding and encapsulation are necessary, but obviously
nowhere near sufficient. Without either inheritence and either
late binding or dynamic typing, you don't have OO ( so without virtual
functions, you can't easily program OO in C++ )
>> There's technical reasons why making binary operators member functions
>> is not easy ( if you make it a member function, the first operand must
>> be the object. )
>
>IOW, it's a kludge to deal with primitive types.
Well, it's a kludge, but I don't see where primitive types come in.
>> This is what friends are primarily used for -- operator overloading.
>
>> Well, I'd take his word over yours any day.
>
>I'll take Kay's over Stroustrup's any day.
So what does Kay say about the definition of OO ? Does he say that OO
means "everything is an object ?
>Whatever language you choose, you are forced to program a certain way.
>Get over it.
That's not true. There are anrachical languages like perl that really don't
enforce any particular style.
>> If you want to do systems programming, you'll have a hard time doing it
>> in scheme, ML, Lisp and smalltalk.
>
>And this is because ?
Mostly speed concerns.
>> It indicates that you're being overly pedantic.
>
>I don't mind smalltalk but whoever called it small talk ....
I don't believe I did. If I did, it was most probably a typo.
For the most part, I've used "smalltalk", I'm just lazy with the
shift key.
>> >Do you seriously think this has nothing to do with the fact that
>> >existing systems are written in a procedural style? You're the one
>>
>> Partly. But also partly because hardware doesn't "act" in an object
>> oriented way. I mean, assembly language is hardly object oriented.
>
>Assembly language isn't anything. Besides, only a small part of
>any modern OS is written in assembly.
It's much easier to translate procedural code into assembly than
OO code into assembly though.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:24:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Richard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 07 Oct 2000 00:59:14 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>> comp.lang.java.advocacy added to newsgroups.
>> It's far from clear whether C++'s methodology -- also known as
>> "well, OK, I can be an object if I feel like it, but I don't have
>> to be" -- is the best or not, although it works.
>
>For some definition of 'works', COBOL works. :-)
Well, I did previously program in COBOL (VMS dialect), and it does work.
It's probably more appropriate for writing novels than programs,
but...
>
>> Java has an interesting dichotomy, and I'm still trying to figure
>> out whether the following will work, on a theoretical level.
>
>[I feel dizzy]
Oh so dizzy...I feel dizzy and WYSI and whew!
Oh so dizzy...what's an OO paradigm, too?
(with apologies to the creators of _West Side Story_)
:-)
I did eventually get it to work, as you probably saw in my post;
someone subsequently suggested that I use java.lang.String.class
to replace Class.forName("java.lang.String"), to neaten the code
up a bit.
>
>> [rest snipped, as I know little about Smalltalk -- which is a pity :-) ]
>
>Amen, brother!
www.squeak.org, although I haven't looked at it myself, is reputed to
be a Smalltalk website -- in the sense it describes Smalltalk, that is.
What snippets of code I have seen does make it look interesting.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: "Gabriele Del Giovine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:41:09 +0200
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Is of course Linux.
>
> The power of Linux is of course the GNU/GPL.
>
> Does everybody agree that Linux has the best desktop? NO, HELL NO!
>
> Is Linux still growing? YES HELL YES!
Linux follow the same evolution path of Unix. Start from an unique base (the
kernel)
then begin to moltiplicate (the distributions) and....no more Linux.
Bye.
------------------------------
From: "mlhickok" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anybody offer free Linux access?~!
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:57:05 -0700
Reply-To: "mlhickok" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"JoeX1029" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> this most likely isnt the right group but since most of you have Linux
boxes on
> the net i'll ask anyway: Does anyone offer FREE or low(er) cost dialup
access
> in IL???
Most of the "free" providers force you to download advertizing and it MUST
be on your screen while you are connected. If it is not on your screen, you
are in violation of the license agreement and there are stiff financial
penalties if you are caught.
I have never seen any of these "free" providers like Netzero, KMart Walmart,
Altavista, Spinway, etc. provide the software to Linux users.
Note: Has anybody tried doing this?
Take a Windows 9x computer with a dial-up modem and a Network card. Dial
up a free service and run one of the many Win-Proxy programs out there (also
comes with Win98) and then connect your Linux box to the Network card for
free access.
-MLH
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unix rules in Redmond
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 17:00:18 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 7 Oct 2000 02:22:26 +0200
<2cqlr8.9ld.ln@gd2zzx>:
>In article <8rlb6h$ko2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>>
>> Aw. Dresden doesnt know what a context switch is.
>
>With a name like dressed in black and his porn connections I'm
>sure he knows what a context switch is. It has nothing to do
>with computing though. :-)
I dunno...I've never heard of a context switch outside of computing.
A switch, yes...it's basically a branch shorn of leaves, used for
punishment of unruly students. :-) But that's another context. :-)
(Not to mention another century! Today, were one to pick up
a switch to discipline children, one would most likely be turned in for
child abuse, to the embarrassment of just about everyone. It's
possible s/he'd be released later on, though, once the confusion
clears up. Or maybe not. I don't know, I don't really want to know,
I'm not into the BDSM (BSDM?) scene.)
Side note: it's interesting how terms mutate. Think, for example,
of the terms "fag" or "faggot", "switch" (as illustrated above),
"computer", and "link". A "fag" was a cigarette, a "faggot" was
probably a cord of wood (yes, cord is a measurement; I'd have to
look it up, though). "Computer", pre-1950's, meant "one who computes".
"Link" might mean "resolve undefined references by dragging in
software library components" (the program usually doing this
being /bin/ld or LINK.EXE), but it also is a part of a chain, as
in "only as strong as its weakest link".
Side note #2: Last time I looked, Drestin's wife wasn't bad looking,
but she wouldn't excite me too much unless she had a *very* sexy voice.
However, as long as he loves her, I can't say too much. :-)
>
>> Thats sweet.
>
>How apropriate.
Hmmm...did I miss something? :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random opinion here
------------------------------
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