Linux-Advocacy Digest #568, Volume #29 Tue, 10 Oct 00 06:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (2:1)
Re: Newbie: How do you setup 2 PC's using Rhat Linux 6.2? (2:1)
Re: Newbie: How do you setup 2 PC's using Rhat Linux 6.2? (2:1)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("D'Arcy Smith")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Stuart Fox")
Real Linux Advocacy (2:1)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: linuxgames.com 3D Benchmarks (2:1)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Chris Sherlock)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Chris Sherlock)
Re: How low can they go...? ("Weevil")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:17 +0100
> What about Windows 2000? Afraid to compare it because you know Linux doesn't
> hold a candle to it?
Guess what, Drestin, it *COSTS* to upgrade to Win2K. Sinck you used to
sat that NT4 was so great, then why bother?
> Let's try to compare apples to apples, please. NT 4.0 is better than Linux
> 2.0 or 1.2, but that's not saying much.
Actually, no it's not. I used 2.0.32 until very recently, and it was
more stable than NT has been for me.
I needed to upgrde to get drivers for a new device.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Newbie: How do you setup 2 PC's using Rhat Linux 6.2?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:20:08 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi, I have 2 PCs that I'd like to setup together to
> learn Apache webserver, printer server and DNS. Can
> someone help me please.
>
> I have 2 NIC cards (NE2000), 1 hub and Rhat Linux 6.2.
>
> Can someone give me the step-by-step procedure?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Leo
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
FWIW, RH6.2 comes with the NE2000 drivers working out of the box.
Just installing RH6.2 anc selecting the apropriate packages should
install a working web server. Just edit /home/http/html.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Newbie: How do you setup 2 PC's using Rhat Linux 6.2?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:21:20 +0100
I've had no problems with NE2000 PCI.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "D'Arcy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:36:08 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> wrote in message
news:JTzE5.125828$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Much of Win32 is not nearly as well understood as the text control.
> > Windows programmers seem to spend a fair amount of time experimenting
> > around to find out how an API *really* behaves. This not only makes
> > Win32 annoying to program for, it also makes it hard to clone.
> So if it's so well understood then why did the WINE folks fail? You said
> "seem" back it up. Most Windows software engineers just take Win32 from
the
> docs and do quite well. Hard to clone -- make due to lack of
understanding
> from not reading the docs.
The only part of the Win32 API that I am familliar with is the socket
stuff. The MSDN docs are good - however there is not nearly enough
information to do an implementation of the APIs.
Having information available for using the APIs is not the same thing
as having information available for cloning the APIs.
I don't know if the same goes for the rest of the Win32 API... but
the socket stuff most definatly does not have enough documention
on MSND to re-implement the API (of course it is possible
that I missed something - if somebody has a link to very detailed
documentation that would be cool).
Now what exactly does this thread have to do with Java?
..darcy
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:44:39 GMT
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:42:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
|Here is the part of the article I like best:
|********************************************************************************
|Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
|software to task for not moving beyond its niche status. The
|UNIX/Linux product marketing manager for Compaq says that Linux needs
|to show that its being used in more enterprises before it can be taken
|seriously. "We're definitely at the stage where we need reference
|[enterprise] sites [using Linux]," Compaq's Judy Chavis says.
Compaq has a "UNIX/Linux product marketing manager" ?!?!
Wow! So, sounds like getting Linux into enterprise reference sites
is the job *they* are getting pair for. Why are they complaining?
|"Otherwise we'll be in danger of losing all this momentum and it
|becomes one of those 'just for geeks' things." Chavis says that the
Well, the marketing manager had better get busy marketing.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:42:01 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> Everything you apparently think is 'known' about Neanderthals seems to
> be supposition from about ten years ago. Nobody claims to know whether
> "we" killed *or* interbred with Neanderthals, or even how divergent they
> were from homo sapiens.
More like three years ago. And what you wrote about whether or
not neanderthals were a different species is irrelevant to the
process of *forming* a new species; ie, *speciation*. Differences
between subgroups increase, they don't decrease (with one or two
exceptions).
> Roberto is certainly right on this issue. It pretty much seems 'quite
> the bit of fishy' to just about everyone outside your head, Richard.
My what big ego you have. So you and Roberto are "everyone" now?
> >I don't much care. Nor do I care to continue this discussion with you.
>
> So you are a sham after all, Richard?
I don't much care whether I spell the guy's name correctly.
> I was really looking forward to some serious Gödel Theorem clashing.
I'm not arguing about the meaning of the incompleness theorem with
someone who refuses to think in terms of abstractions.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:47:05 +0100
"Jonathan Thornburg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8rui70$i1e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In an article whose nested quotation has buffer-overflowed by mind :),
> someone wrote
> | You mentioned that Linux was pretty stable as long as
> | you didn't enter XWindows (which is correct).
> |
> | I was attempting to say "so what have you gained then?".
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> replied:
> >Multithreading, a complete set of development tools for free, memory
> >beyond the first megabyte, long filenames, oustanding support for
> >Internet development, and, oh yes, Gnibbles. :-)
>
> Not to mention much improved security. The M$ mentality exemplified
> by my .signature quote tends to lead to, ahh, "suboptimal" security.
>
Nice quote completely out of context of course. Maybe you should add this
before it "This article tells you how to get rid of those dialog boxes
without setting your security level to none."
Idiot.
> --
> -- Jonathan Thornburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://www.thp.univie.ac.at/~jthorn/home.html
> Universitaet Wien (Vienna, Austria) / Institut fuer Theoretische Physik
> "If security is set to none, everything just works." quoted from
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/techart/msdn_signmark.htm, May 2000
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Real Linux Advocacy
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:55:33 +0100
I've finally got my linux machine on line and it bloody RULES!
It was so easy to configure. It must have taken all of 5 minutes to
enter in the IP numbers, reinitialize eth0 and run netscape.
To all the trolls, don't bother pointing out how I would have got my
linux box online quicker with windows, don't bother. The socket was
wired up wrong, so even windows wouldn't have helped there.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:09:42 GMT
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:33:41 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
|You mean like Linux is trying to do?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Linux is an inanimate piece of software. It has no free will.
What organisation/s in particular are you refering to in the above quote?
|claire
|
|
|On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:51:20 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
|wrote:
|
|>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:42:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|wrote:
|>>Here is the part of the article I like best:
|>>********************************************************************************
|>>Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
|>
|> ...not exactly what I think of when enterprise computing comes
|> to mind. Although, not being suited for the glass room hardly
|> keeps other OSes from decending upon the land like a plague of
|> locusts.
|>
|>[deletia]
|
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linuxgames.com 3D Benchmarks
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:11:26 +0100
> You know, MS could sabotage Linux by taking out support of OpenGL (or at
> least crippling it for games) from Windows... then game developers would be
> forced to choose to write their games for Windows (D3D), or Linux
> (OpenGL)... guess which one they would choose to write for?
>
The graphics card manufacturer, not MS provide the OpenGL drivers. There
are also third party drivers avaliable. IIRC SGI made some open GL
software drivers.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:17:33 -0400
Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>
>> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, STATIC66
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:17:07 GMT, "Chad Myers"
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Make no bones, these people had been on welfare almost their
>> >> >whole life and had figured out ways to keep the checks coming
>> >> >and would sometimes purposely wound themselves in minor ways
>> >> >to scam a disability check. These people are lower than
>> >> >criminals.
>>
>> >> Well put and all too often true. These people should be quartered and
>> >> then shot. The children placed in homes with caring responsible
>> >> guardians....
>>
>> > And what makes you think that *all* welfare recipients are like that???
>>
>> Because he is a complete idiot and/or a person without an ounce of empathy for
>> other human beings.
>Wrong. I have not an ounce of empathy for the lazy and shiftless.
>For those who are willing to make an effort and help themselves, I give them
>my full support.
Kulkis, you are one of the sick nut jobs running around here who are
completely devoid of common decency ttowards others -- and it is not just on
the posts you make here. I stumbled into your posts lumping all women together
as whores in another ng.
Frankly, you are pathetic person who needs all the psychiatric care you can
pay for. If is was up to me, I'd have you locked up and treated, just to make
everyone else a little happier by removing your constant anger towards
everyone and everything, but your self-centered world. Get the treatment you
need before you end up killing or injuring someone in your anger.
===========================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===========================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:21:44 +1000
From: Chris Sherlock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:07:35 +1000, Chris Sherlock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Really? Then what do you call Visual C++, Borland C++, Turbo Pascal, or
> >Delphi?
>
> And how much shelf space do they take up at CompUsa or Microcenter?
>
> Compared to rest of the applications for Windows?
Don't know. There's no CompUSA or Microcentre where I live! besides,
you're point was that "we don't want compilers" not, are compilers
lining the shelves of my local computer shop.
> >> >We don't need 200 different text editors.
> >
> >Hmmm. What about the port of vi for DOS. What about Notepad, Wordpad,
> >Write, NoteTab (http://www.notetab.com) or Free Notepad
> >(http://www.yellowforest.com/freefilesexplorer/index.htm)? Obviously,
> >someone felt that Windows needed another text editor!
>
> Walk up to 1000 Windows users at random on Main St. USA and ask them
> if they use vi? Or Emacs or Brief (they still make that one?)
>
> Another programmer :)
Again, I was responding to your point that "We don't need 200 different
text editors". My point was that there are *plenty* of text editors...
aw, who cares? Stupid point to be arguing about in the first place.
> >> >We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented programs
> >> >that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but other
> >> >programmers..
> >
> >That's right. Libraries are only used by programmers for their programs.
> >In a way you are right - libraries *are* very useful for coders. They
> >allow each other to reuse each other's code without having to recompile
> >everything all the time and causing great big fat bloated apps.
>
> I'm talking about average folks. Programmers are a minuscule part of
> the population.
Aha. Libraries, however are needed for applications! Those freeware
libraries are extremely useful, and necessary, even if the general
population thinks that a library is somewhere you go to borrow books.
Well... you know what I mean!
> >Interestingly, you have *no* idea what libraries are used for. Windows
> >uses a TON of libraries (two of which are kernel32.dll and GDI32.dll -
> >funny that, isn't it?)
>
> Actually I do, having gone through Win3.1, 95 and every other version.
> dll's are well known to me :)
So why did you complain about them?
> >Libraries are very good things - reusable code is a very good thing.
> >Perhaps you don't really know what you are talking about here? Besides,
> >I have to ask you what libraries you find are so "useless".
>
> Never said that. I said average Joe could care less.
No. You said that nobody needs them. There is a difference here.
> >> >We don't need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat.
> >
> >*You* may not need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat, but then
> >again *you* don't need 90% of the programs on Winfiles! What is your
> >point?
>
> The programs I see on Winfiles are useful to the average secretary or
> a kid looking for some game or address book or something. While
> Freshmeat does have some of that kind of stuff, you have to wade
> through page after page of fragmented technical stuff. Ie:programmer
> tools for GTK QT etc.
You may be looking at the wrong site then. Try looking at Tucows or
Linuxburg, this may be more what you are looking at.
> >Freshmeat catalogues all sorts of open-source software. Some of it is
> >obscure, a lot of it is very usefull!
>
> To programmers mostly. Like Linux in general.
I really can't see how you can say that. All you do is download an RPM,
run it and it installs! Plenty of good apps out there.
> >> >We don't want to return to the 1980's playing with config files.
> >
> >Unfortuneately, most higher level technicians are still playing around
> >with the registry, and some still even play around with config files.
>
> Programmers again.
No, technicians. On a *windows* platform.
> >> >
> >> >We have gone through Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files ad nauseam with
> >> >Qemm and Qualatis, playing with Himem.sys to gain that extra 5k of
> >> >free memory.
> >> >
> >> >This is 1980's stuff and it is gone, goodbye. We don't want to
> >> >resurrect playing around with text files.
> >
> >So why is knowledge of these things still a requirement of the A+
> >certification?
>
> Because programmers net techs, sysadmins need this stuff. Useful to
> them, useless to average Joe and Jane.
OK, I'll agree with you on that one.
> >> >We don't want half assed implementations of Windows software either.
> >> >If you choose to clone it but can't clone it completely, including all
> >> >ease of use features, don't bother at all. it will only make you look
> >> >silly. The current crop of mp3 players are a good example. Damm things
> >> >can't even remember the song directory.
> >
> >OK, can't comment too much on your mp3 player. Then again, you didn't
> >tell me which one you use!
>
> MusicMatch JukeBox. Or Pyro by Cakewalk.
>
> >Of course, you didn't mention what are "half assed implementations of
> >Windows software". Would you care to give some examples?
>
> Pick one.
>
> Pick any one of the current Winamp, ACDEESE,Agent clones.
XMMS (http://www.xmms.org), Electric Eyes (part of the GNOME
distribution) and Pan (http://www.superpimp.org).
Can't see what is so bad about them!
> >> >We are willing to pay for quality software that works out of the box.
> >> >And Windows has plenty of it.
> >
> >Caldera, Mandrake and RedHat all have software that works "out of the
> >box".
>
> A ton of programmer stuff again...
Sheesh. Do you even use these applications? The default GNOME
installation that I got on my old Redhat distro gave me *everything*
that I needed, and guess what? no programming! Sure I can drop to a
shell, but so what? I don't *need* the shell.
> >> >Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
> >> >Compare this to trying to set up a firewall under Linux using
> >> >IpChains, ipforwarding and such....What a waste of time, as well as a
> >> >potential security risk for those setting it up that don't know what
> >> >they are doing.
> >
> >Ah, yeah. Right. Have you ever tried gfcc? This is a *very* nice
> >graphical firewall. See http://icarus.autostock.co.kr/ Even nicer is
> >Lokkit - See http://www.linux.org.uk/apps/lokkit.shtml
> >
> >Then there is Nessus: http://www.nessus.org and Firestarter
> >http://firestarter.sourceforge.net/
> >
> >Like KDE? Try GuardDog at http://www.simonzone.com/software/guarddog/
> >
> >Want more? Have a look at the following page:
> >http://www.linuxberg.com/x11html/adm_firewall.html
>
> And how much of my lifetime do I have to devote to setting these up?
Well, if you actually went and took even the smallest peek at the web
pages maybe you would find one that doesn't actually take much to setup.
Have a look at lokkit again.
> >> >Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
> >> >designed program that works out of the box and is easily customized.
> >> >Also I don't have to scour the net for config scripts that may
> >> >actually compromise security. The products I use, and pay for, are
> >> >used by corporations everywhere, and if a flaw should arise, and they
> >> >do, a fix is released....
> >
> >Funnily enough, this happens *frequently* in Linux also.
>
> Agreed..
So why bring up the point?
> >> >Browsers?
> >> >
> >> >Netscape, says it all. Even Windows users think Netscape sucks.
> >
> >OK, let's see. We have Opera for Linux (http://www.opera.com/linux/),
> >Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org), Skipstone
> >(http://www.muhri.net/skipstone/), Galeon
> >(http://galeon.sourceforge.net/), Express (a very new one, see
> >http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~conradp/express/) and Encompass
> >(http://www.geocities.com/lordzephyroth/encompass.html) just to name a
> >few.
>
> Opera 4.02 stinks under Windows. It has been in eternal beta for
> Linux.
> IE 5 is the standard and nobody has surpassed it yet, least of all
> Netscrape.
Sure, IE is very easy to use, but then again, so is Galeon and Mozilla!
> >Actually I don't mind Netscape too much when I use it on Windows. It
> >does the job, and at least when I hit the <esc> button it actually
> >*stops* loading pages, unlike it's famous competitor.
>
> You are settling for a second rate product.
Well, I don't think so. My version of Netscape is great! I can do
everything that I want with it. Plenty of people I know can as well. I
don't think that it is a third rate product.
> >> >
> >> >Email?
> >> >
> >> >Anything like Eudora yet?
> >> >Sorry but I don't feel like configuring sendmail today, or any day for
> >> >that matter.
> >
> >Ah, yeah. Shows how much *you* know about email doesn't it? Who uses
> >sendmail for desktop systems??!!!???
> >
> >Try Eucalyptus (MIME aware, and can be found at
> >http://eucalyptus.sourceforge.net/) or Mahogany
> >(http://www.wxwindows.org/Mahogany/). Again, KDE has a great email
> >program called KMail (see http://devel-home.kde.org/~kmail/)
>
> Kmail isn't bad.
Well, there you are then.
> >> >Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
> >> >evident by the number of sales of Windows ME.... Why would people pay
> >> >for what really amounts to a minimal upgrade instead of getting Linux
> >> >for free?
> >> >They are not interested in Linux, that is why.
> >
> >Uh, yeah. Great syllogism - everybody is not interested in Linux because
> >they are buying Windows ME. Ever heard of the dual-booting? I believe
> >that all those Linux distrubutions out there would be very interested
> >that noone is interested in Linux!
>
> They are dual booting for a short while to try Linux. When they run
> out of space loading mp3's, Linux partition goes down the drain.
>
> >> >Linux has had it's day in the press, let's do every desktop user a
> >> >favor and put it out of it's misery once and for all :)
> >
> >I'm sure all those KDE and GNOME users out there would have something to
> >say about that!
>
> I actually like kde and Gnome and feel they are doing a fine job. I
> just loaded kde 2.0 and a lot has changed from 1.x.
Haven't used it yet. I've heard that it is very good though. Will have
to give it a whirl.
> >> >I along with everybody else in the world would LOVE free applicaitons,
> >> >but not at the price that running Linux involves.
> >
> >You may want to have a look at Helix Code or Mandrake. I think that
> >these would suit you down to the ground.
>
> I run Mandrake 7.1 and yes, I do think it is one of, if not, the best
> distro.
>
> >Chris
>
> In a nutshell, I AGREE with most of what you are saying Chris, but I
> am looking at Linux from a typical users point of view. Not as an os
> for a programmer, but an OS alternative for someone using Windows or
> Mac.
The Macintosh. Now *there* is a well designed, easy to use computer
system.
> Linux has to do more to focus on that kind of user or it will never be
> able to erode the already installed Windows base.
>
> Make no mistake about it, people could care less about the DOJ and
> Microsoft,
I happen to be one of them.
> BUT from what I hear people are getting tired of being
> nickel and dimes for upgrades to Windows. They are also getting tired
> of the required upgrades of their applications to run properly. The
> version of the month club is starting to annoy people.
>
> Golden opportunity for Linux IMHO..
I'm afraid that Linux is just the same - bugs will be found and upgrades
will be released. It's just that I don't have to spend an arm and a leg
to purchase them!
> It's been nice talking with you...
>
> Claire
Same here.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:31:33 +1000
From: Chris Sherlock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Sounds to me like Compaq are trying to ride the crest of the newest
wave. Good luck to them!
Chris
Paul Colquhoun wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:42:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> |Here is the part of the article I like best:
> |********************************************************************************
> |Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
> |software to task for not moving beyond its niche status. The
> |UNIX/Linux product marketing manager for Compaq says that Linux needs
> |to show that its being used in more enterprises before it can be taken
> |seriously. "We're definitely at the stage where we need reference
> |[enterprise] sites [using Linux]," Compaq's Judy Chavis says.
>
> Compaq has a "UNIX/Linux product marketing manager" ?!?!
>
> Wow! So, sounds like getting Linux into enterprise reference sites
> is the job *they* are getting pair for. Why are they complaining?
>
> |"Otherwise we'll be in danger of losing all this momentum and it
> |becomes one of those 'just for geeks' things." Chavis says that the
>
> Well, the marketing manager had better get busy marketing.
>
> --
> Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
> -=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
> xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
> a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:43:05 -0500
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:dgzE5.160718$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:NIsE5.50444$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Software in general, but especially OS software, is at LEAST 10 years
> behind
> > where it would have been if not for Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, et al,
and
> > their utterly evil willingness to stifle any and all competition
illegally
> > while investing next to nothing in improving their own products.
> >
> > This is not conjecture. It is not bitter spewing from a Microsoft
hater.
> > It is fact. It has been proven. It is reality.
>
> Ya sure, ya betcha.
>
> Check their SEC filings and see how much they spend on R&D. It's a lot
more
> than you seem to think.
>
> Simon
>
Their R&D money is spent mostly on figuring out how to stifle competition.
In the absence of competition, Microsoft does virtually nothing to improve
its products. DOS sat for 4 years, virtually unchanged, before DR DOS
entered the picture. Microsoft's response was on 2 fronts: update DOS
(finally), attack DR DOS. Their "update" was basically an imperfect
imitation of DR DOS.
Their attack was something else altogether. You ought to look it up some
time.
Microsoft spend money on R&D? That's just not them. Their very first
product (not DOS 1.0, but BASIC) wasn't their work. Neither was DOS, of
course. Nor Windows. They never innovate, Simon. They never have. They
are against innovation in principle. Innovation is not commensurate with
their corporate goal of making MS's top executives as rich as humanly
possible.
jwb
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