Linux-Advocacy Digest #578, Volume #29 Tue, 10 Oct 00 16:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Real Linux Advocacy ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Sucks ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Bob Hauck)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Mike Byrns)
Re: The Power of the Future! (Jason Bowen)
Re: Linux Sucks
Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Timberwoof)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (John Sanders)
Re: Real Linux Advocacy (Spicerun)
Re: apt-get like tools on redhat? (Roberto Teixeira)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Real Linux Advocacy
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:43:50 GMT
Not at all.
I thought there might have been two different "2"'s that's all.
enjoy,
claire
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:34:20 +0100, 2:1
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> You mean you have been posting Linux advocacy here for months and you
>> just got Linux online?
>>
>> Or is that a different "2" ?
>>
>> I leave headers to Bilk....
>>
>> claire
>
>I have been running Linux for nearly 2 years. I have just moved in to a
>college room with an ethernet connection, so yes, I have been running
>linux for 2 years, posting about how good it is for months and have been
>online less than 24 hours.
>
>Do you have a problem with that?
>
>
>-Ed
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:44:46 GMT
Back into the killfile with you..
claire
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:24:01 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:44:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>So SuSE has offices in God knows how many countries just out of the
>>goodness of their heart and the spreading of that joy we all know as
>>Linux?
>
> Neither of your assertions have any relation to the point
> you are attempting to prove.
>
>>
>>It's all about money and making the real big money means taking market
>>share from Microsoft on the desktop.
>>
>>claire
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:29:01 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:57:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>>It seems to matter to the folks that think they are going to make a
>>>>fortune off Linux, Like Redhat, SuSE etc.
>>>
>>> Actually, the sorts of things your talking about have little
>>> to no relevance to Suse. They're more relevant to the likes
>>> of SGI or IBM.
>>>
>>>>Do you honestly believe they are not trying to take market share away
>>>>from Windows?
>>>>
>>>>Your head is up your *** if you do..
>>>>
>>>>claire
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:12:48 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
>>>>Warkus) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It was the Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:15:47 GMT...
>>>>>...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>> And if it doesn't get it's ass in gear it will remain a niche' system.
>>>>>
>>>>>And nobody gives a damn about whether it will or won't except for a
>>>>>certain sad git without a real name.
>>>>>
>>>>>mawa
>>>>
>>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:45:23 GMT
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:45:24 +1000, Chris Sherlock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> The UNIX/Linux product marketing manager for Compaq ...
>> "Otherwise we'll be in danger of losing all this momentum and it
>> becomes one of those 'just for geeks' things."
>So getting the software out in an unstable state because of *marketing*
>reasons is more important to this woman than stability.
Well, she is a "product marketing manager". Which is indicative of how
much attention anyone should pay to what she says.
>> Chavis says that the delays in the Linux 2.4 kernel will delay her
>> company's plans to release a Linux-based e-commerce site,
>Why? If you are *that* desperate to use Linux, the 2.2 series kernels do
>just fine and you can even use the *gasp* pre-release 2.4 kernels!!!
Not if the site is really just marketing-ware for showing off geegaws
to people in suits who have been promised "Compaq Linux 2.4" by some
clueless marketroid. In that case, not having 2.4 will hold up the
mission since the mission isn't to do useful work but to impress these
suits that Compaq is on the leading edge of something cool.
>On another point, when was the 2.4 release date set? I understood that
>it was set to be released whenever it was ready!
That's been the tradition going back to 1.x days. One shouldn't expect
a "product marketing manager" to know that though.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:57:35 GMT
Weevil wrote:
> James A. Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I'm not concerned about the time it was produced; you are trying to
> > > objectify the API in appropriately. Win32 is anti-competitive crap
> > > because that's what Microsoft wants it to be. As for how it is
> > > anti-competitive, the most obvious example to come to mind is that it
> > > includes web browser functionality, implemented with the specific intent
> > > of preventing competition.
> > >
> >
> > AH - it's MS so it's bad. What a great argument
>
> Are you deliberately dense? Although it is true that if it's MS it is
> almost certainly bad,
The enlightened reader would have stopped right there but I guess I continue on
our of some kind or mobid curiosity...
> that's not what he was saying at all. You challenged
> him to explain how Win32 is anti-competitive and he pretty much nailed you
> with a rather famous example.
Win32 provides Internet functionality in the OS. Look at NeoPlanet it's a
decidedly different browser but uses the Internet services integrated with
Windows. Win32 is not anti-competitive at all. It's an open, well documented
set of interfaces to services that programmers would have had to write from
scratch if they weren't so generously provided by Microsoft.
> Actually, one of the main reasons Win32 is so HUGE (28 million lines of
> code, or something in that neighborhood)
Win32? You surely must be referring to the entire Windows 2000 Operating
System. The Win32 interfaces are contained in a single subsystem, WIN32K.SYS,
of that OS. That file is 1,686K. I don't care what compiler you use -- you are
not going to compile 28 million lines of code into under 2MB. How silly.
> is that Microsoft spends at least
> as much time making the API a "moving target" (Bill Gates' words, not mine)
So post a link to that quote, why don't you?
> as it does actually trying to fix or improve anything.
Right. Nothings been fixed or improved since Windows 95. Sure. You just keep
telling yourself that.
> My guess, based on
> known Microsoft history, is that less than 10% of their R&D money and
> technical man-hours are spent on trying to improve the product.
Your guess. And not educated at that.
> They spend
> their time destroying any hint of competition and thinking up new
> justifications for jacking up their prices.
R&D does that? I thought that was the marketing department's job :-)
> That's Microsoft in a nutshell. That's who you spend so much of your time
> and energy defending.
No. That's a warped Linutic Penguinista's version of reality. I shoulda
stopped reading this bullshit after the first sentence.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: 10 Oct 2000 18:51:41 GMT
In article <39e2aab3$0$5789$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Jason Bowen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8rsmtb$5nj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <0rcE5.120448$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> wrote:
>> >joseph wrote:
>> >
>> >Actually many are but not the masses of "mom and pops" that cut costs by
>using
>> >Linux. Lycos and several others can be found to be using Windows 2000 if
>you
>> >check them with the Netcraft tool.
>>
>> Netcraft is hardly a infalliable tool and you don't know much about
>> networking if you believe the front door is representative of everything
>> behind it. www.hotmail.com reports Win2k, it must be all Win2k right? It
>> is common knowledge that it is FreeBSD doing most of the serving there
>> even though Microsoft has started to roll out Win2k their.
>
>W2K is running 100% of the web servers at Hotmail but the application itself
>has not yet been ported. Look for that to change before the year is out.
>
I berated somebody for making an inference about Hotmail's poor
performance lately but now I guess maybe I was wrong. I rarely deal with
Hotmail addresses but of late the few I've dealt with took 3-4 hours to
receive mail that I sent. I guess corporate decision making doesn't take
into account that if something ain't broke, don't fix it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:10:25 -0000
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:44:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Back into the killfile with you..
The truth pains you, doesn't it.
You never established that Suse is infact targeting the market
in question. The fact that they are growing or helping perpetuate
Linux in and of itself does not demonstrate that they are claiming
that Linux is ready for the desktop, trying to compete with Microsoft
on the desktop, claim that Linux is ready for HA, or are trying to
compete with Sun or IBM in HA.
Also, since Billy-boy wants to own everything: the mere fact that
someone might be trying to "take profits" from Megalosoft doesn't
in any way give you any clue what market is the one in question.
Eventually, Proctor&Gamble will be trying to steal marketshare
from Microsoft.
>
>claire
>
>
>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:24:01 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:44:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>So SuSE has offices in God knows how many countries just out of the
>>>goodness of their heart and the spreading of that joy we all know as
>>>Linux?
>>
>> Neither of your assertions have any relation to the point
>> you are attempting to prove.
>>
>>>
>>>It's all about money and making the real big money means taking market
>>>share from Microsoft on the desktop.
>>>
>>>claire
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:29:01 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:57:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>It seems to matter to the folks that think they are going to make a
>>>>>fortune off Linux, Like Redhat, SuSE etc.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the sorts of things your talking about have little
>>>> to no relevance to Suse. They're more relevant to the likes
>>>> of SGI or IBM.
>>>>
>>>>>Do you honestly believe they are not trying to take market share away
>>>>>from Windows?
>>>>>
>>>>>Your head is up your *** if you do..
>>>>>
>>>>>claire
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:12:48 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
>>>>>Warkus) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It was the Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:15:47 GMT...
>>>>>>...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>> And if it doesn't get it's ass in gear it will remain a niche' system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And nobody gives a damn about whether it will or won't except for a
>>>>>>certain sad git without a real name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>mawa
>>>>>
>>>
>
--
A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his
mouth.
Entreprenuer, n.:
A high-rolling risk taker who would rather
be a spectacular failure than a dismal success.
Never leave anything to chance; make sure all your crimes are premeditated.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:12:44 -0000
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:21:30 GMT, Darin Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> : The point he's trying to make is, even though
>> : people say Unix is Unix is Unix, there are still apps that only work
>> : on HP-UX, or Solaris, or Linux. If they have a common API, why is this the
>> : case?
>>
>> Because they're closed-source.
>
>More importantly, peer pressure and customer pressure.
>
>Those apps may not survive long if they can't be moved to new OS's.
Really. How many apps stay on one and only one Unix? The
simple fact of the matter is that there is market pressure
to push software vendors into making portable product so
that they can maximize their target market.
[deletia]
--
Elephant, n.:
A mouse built to government specifications.
The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run.
Pascal:
A programming language named after a man who would turn over
in his grave if he knew about it.
-- Datamation, January 15, 1984
------------------------------
From: Timberwoof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:22:33 GMT
In article <yxSC5.40811$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Timberwoof" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charlie Ebert
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > The ones which went into Mars at 62 degree angles were W2k equipped.
> >
> > I'd like to see documentation that the OS onboard that spacecraft
> > wasW2k. I do not believe it.
> >
> > The official reason was that one processor talked in m/s while another
> > processor talked in ft/s. OOps.
>
> I believe the operative phrase here is "D'oh!"
That's in nucular[1] engineering. }: )
[1] Yes, I know that nuclear is spelled nuclear. But Homer works at a
nucular power plant.
--
Timberwoof <timberwoof at infernosoft dot com> Chief Perpetrator
Infernosoft: Putting the No in Innovation. http://www.infernosoft.com
"The opposite of hardware is not easyware."
------------------------------
From: John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:49:00 -0500
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Timberwoof" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charlie Ebert
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > The ones which went into Mars at 62 degree angles were W2k equipped.
> >
> > I'd like to see documentation that the OS onboard that spacecraft
> > wasW2k. I do not believe it.
> >
> > The official reason was that one processor talked in m/s while another
> > processor talked in ft/s. OOps.
>
> I believe the operative phrase here is "D'oh!"
>
> -Chad
Hey, how does the mouse work in zero G?
--
John W. Sanders
===============
"there" in or at a place.
"their" of or relating to them.
"they're" contraction of 'they are'.
------------------------------
From: Spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Real Linux Advocacy
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:08:12 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At least I run the operating system I am advocating, as well as the
> one I am exposing.
Gee, so do I!
LOL, I'm still waiting for you to expose anything about Linux. So far, the
only expose' I've seen from you have been about
Windows......unintentionally.
BTW: How do you 'expose' anything about an Open Source OS anyhow?
>
>
> claire
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:13:47 -0500, Spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> You mean you have been posting Linux advocacy here for months and you
> >> just got Linux online?
> >
> >Hey, you're the person who has been advocating Windows for months in the
> >Linux advocacy group; yet you still haven't found the correct windows
> >advocacy groups to post into. All this time and you still haven't
> >figured out how to make Outlook Express find the windows advocacy
> >groups?
> >
> >HINT: Linux advocacy groups is for advocating LINUX!
> >
> >
------------------------------
From: Roberto Teixeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: apt-get like tools on redhat?
Date: 10 Oct 2000 17:51:50 -0400
>>>>> "Walter" == Walter Tautz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Walter> I am curious to know if apt-get like tool exists for
Walter> Redhat. I am rather fond of being able to do
Walter> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
Walter> or apt-get dist-upgrade to get the latest release?
Walter> From what some people tell me is you ftp a bunch of rpms
Walter> and then run rpm -F (freshen )?
Walter> I am currently running debian and redhat. I like the
Walter> simpler command line options of rpm when compared to
Walter> dpkg... Some technical evaluations would be helpful.
Well, there *is* a apt-get for RPM :)
I work for a Linux distribution called Conectiva Linux, our next
release (6.0) is due to November and we _have_ apt-get on it.
You can try our beta in http://beta.conectiva.com.br (those pages are
in portuguese, but there are English pages, although I don't know the
exact URL (try http://www.conectiva.com as a starting point).
I've been using apt-get for about a month here and it works perfectly.
--
Roberto Teixeira.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: 10 Oct 2000 19:58:52 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) wrote (abridged):
> Are you saying that you would expect a good Windows
programmer to take
> a week or two to implement Notepad? Is that a reasonable
estimate
> of the time it would take for a program like that?
Someone wrote a Smalltalk version in about half an hour, as
part of a language war. They were more interested in the
minimal executable sizes, so the functionality was not
complete (printing was the main omission). Still, a week
sounds decidedly generous to me, even for C++/Java. Half a day
should be plenty.
Dave Harris, Nottingham, UK | "Weave a circle round him
thrice,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | And close your eyes with
holy dread,
| For he on honey dew hath fed
http://www.bhresearch.co.uk/ | And drunk the milk of
Paradise."
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
