Linux-Advocacy Digest #613, Volume #29 Thu, 12 Oct 00 04:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: David T. Johnson lies again (Marty)
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: The Power of the Future! (Mike Byrns)
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows (Jacques Guy)
Re: David T. Johnson lies again ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows ("Erik Funkenbusch")
E2A4D600 Visio for Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows (Pete Goodwin)
Re: What I would like to see in an OS: ("Poptarts")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:29:07 GMT
"David T. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Marty wrote:
> >
> > "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >> Your post is off-topic for COOA. Read the newsgroup charter you
> > > > > > >> worthless and clueless poor excuse for an alleged "OS/2 Advocate"
> > > > > > >> (whose primary mission appears to be to harrass and denigrate
> > > > > > >> remaining, active OS/2 developers. Are you working for Microsoft?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers. Please delete
> > > > > > >this post or face the consequences.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad Wardell is an OS/2 developer. Marty Amodeo is an OS/2 developer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming for argument sake that they are active OS/2 developers,
> > > >
> > > > No need to assume in one case.
> > > >
> > > > > I have not harassed and denigrated them.
> > > >
> > > > ha·rass (hrs, h-rs)
> > > > v. tr. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es.
> > > >
> > > > 1.To irritate or torment persistently.
> > > > 2.To wear out; exhaust.
> > > > 3.To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.
> > >
> > > You initiated a series of "flame" posts, Marty, with attacks on me that
> > > have continued to escalate. Are you now claiming that I am harassing
> > > you, Marty?
> >
> > Here's what I'm claiming, since you missed it the first time:
> >
> > DTJ] I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers.
> >
> > This statement is a lie.
>
> I will not allow you or Glatt to make the completely false claim that I
> have undertaken a campaign of harassment and denigration against OS/2
> developers.
My claim is above. Here it is again:
DTJ] I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers.
This statement is a lie.
Your interpretation of my claim is not at all equivalent to my claim.
> > And here's the proof:
[see end of article]
> Your proof establishes that I have made personal comments to you in
> Usenet newsgroups.
Wrong. It matches up your statements with the appropriate definitions of
"denigrate" and "harass".
> It does not establish that I have harassed and denigrated you
It establishes precisely that.
> or OS/2 developers.
Psst... I am an OS/2 developer.
> You have avoided my question.
On the contrary, I have directly addressed it.
> I did not ask you if you are claiming that I am a liar.
Nonetheless, I reserve the right to point out your lies as they occur.
> I asked you if you are claiming that I have harassed you.
And I answered the question directly with evidence.
> Glatt has accused me of undertaking a campaign of denigration and
> harassment of OS/2 developers. This is a serious accusation.
What Glatt has accused you of is irrelevant.
> Are you joining him in this accusation?
Please reread my claim and comprehend it this time.
> As for your post, frankly I don't see how you can post this stuff and
> look at yourself in the mirror.
How ironic.
> You have repeatedly attacked me over the last week
What I did or did not do has no effect on the truth value of the statement
which I am questioning. Your statement is a lie, whether I went bowling,
built a pyramid, or made funny faces at you all day.
> because you did not like the comments I posted on 1)
> Wenham's pattern of posting, 2) The ugly thread falsely suggesting Dr.
> Tholen was insane, and 3)the hundreds of off-topic posts being made in
> COOA. You disagreed with my opinions on these three topics and you
> began making a series of posts consisting of name-calling, insults, and
> various personal attacks.
More evidence of your reading comprehension problems. I didn't care one iota
about the content of what you posted other than its inherent hypocrisy. I've
stated so on at least 4 occassions.
> If you are joining Glatt in his accusation that I have harassed and
> denigrated OS/2 developers,
Please reread my claim again and comprehend it this time.
> you had better have something better than your definition from a
> dictionary and the quotes you reference below.
Why? They are all that I need to show that your statement was a lie.
> If you are not joining him, you should state so clearly and
> unequivocally here and now, because, without a statement to the
> contrary, your two posts here suggest otherwise.
Only to those with poor reading comprehension skills, such as yourself.
> > > > den·i·grate (dn-grt)
> > > > v. tr. den·i·grat·ed, den·i·grat·ing, den·i·grates.
> > > >
> > > > 1.To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame.
> > > > 2.To disparage; belittle: The critics have denigrated our efforts.
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] I have only called you a 'liar' and a 'hypocrite.'
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] perhaps you need to reevaluate your surroundings since you fail to
> > > > impress me as being extraordinarily bright, yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] H-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] I doubt that your typical comments can be "dumbed" down any further.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] As for the substance of your comment, it appears to be as garbled
> > > > and confused as Marty's.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] I am starting to feel like I am being flamed by a gaggle of
> > > > fifth-graders.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] I was pointing to Marty's mental confusion.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > >
> > > > DTJ] The entire thrust of your posts over the last week seems to be
> > > > personal attacks. I am losing respect for you.
> > > >
> > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > >
> > > > ...
> >
> > Clear?
> >
> > > [Remaining post untrimmed to accomodate your needs]
> >
> > You might try reading it next time, to "accomodate" [sic] yours.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:54:37 -0500
Really? That's the best test?
How about instead, I give you a budget of $10,000,000.00, including your
time and the time of any other people involved in the project. Now, build a
web site that will generate $1 billion dollars in revenue.
How much are you saving with Linux?
"Gardiner Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> With the money you save using Linux, the money can be used to buy bigger
and
> faster hardware. The best test would be to give 2 people $5000 each,
and only
> one shop to goto (say Quay Computers, Lower Hutt), they have to construct
a
> server, one of the people constructs a Linux one, the other a Windows one,
then
> bench mark it once each server has been tuned etc. By doing this, this
> demonstrate what can be done for $5000, thus showing what offers the most
bang
> for your buck.
>
> matt
>
> Todd wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Many real world benchmarks have already been done with regards to Linux
and
> > Windows 2000.
> >
> > Windows 2000 has shown itself to outperform Linux is almost every
benchmark.
> > Even Linux' traditional strong points such as OpenGL performance is
> > outclassed by Windows 2000.
> >
> > I doubt your simple 'for-next' benchmark is an accurate indication of
the
> > performance differences. You didn't even specify what kind of platform
you
> > are running on!
> >
> > Even motherboard differences can give an edge in performance. A 'real'
> > benchmark needs to be done on the exact same hardware. ie... the same
box.
> >
> > -Todd
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8s054h$5jh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > HI,
> > >
> > > If you are a c++ programmer, then try this program both on windows and
on
> > > linux and observe the time taken to display 1,00,000 numbers
> > >
> > >
> > > #include <iostream.h>
> > > main()
> > > {
> > > for(int i=0; i<=100000; i++)
> > > cout << i <<endl;
> > > return 0;
> > > }
> > >
> > > What I get is 5 seconds on Linux 2.2 and it takes 2.30 minutes to show
all
> > > the
> > > 100000 numbers.
> > >
> > > Yours Truly,
> > > Rizwaan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the
> > eb -----
> > > http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+
> > groups
> > > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other
posts
> > > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:05:06 -0500
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:P59F5.8942
> > If you had bothered to read any other messages in the thread, you'd
know.
> >
> > Netcraft does not survey the number of actual servers. It only surveys
> the
> > number of hostnames, which has no bearing whatsoever on how many actual
> > installations there are. A single server can have 1000 hostnames
assigned
> > to it, and a single hostname can be load balanced across hundreds of
> > servers.
>
> That's true, but I don't see how it relates to anything. Why does it
matter
> if 1000 domains run in a single box or 1000? The software choice
> is the issue, and they are choosing apache.
No, that's not the issue. This thread is in response to a statement made
that Apache is used in more web servers than any other server. My argument
is that there are no hard numbers to support that claim.
We're not discussing how many web sites are hosted on Apache. We're talking
how many servers. And if anyone has any hard facts about that, I'd love to
see them.
> > > And would you have argued with them in the not-so-distant past
> > > when you couldn't keep IIS running for a week at a time?
> >
> > While i've never seen an installation of IIS that couldn't run for a
week
> > (unless it had very poor ISAPI extensions installed), this statement has
> > nothing to do with the topic we're discussing.
>
> Try running NT with less than SP3. No one in their right mind was
> running NT in production then - or at least they didn't stay sane if
> they tried. Did you believe the Netcraft numbers then?
NT4 SP3 is not the "not-so-distant past". That's 4 years ago, or 8 years in
internet time.
In any event, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. What do the
number of servers running on NT several years ago have to do with believing
numbers? I never said that I didn't believe the Netcraft numbers. I said
that they do not paint the picture that you and others are trying to say
they do. The number of hosts has nothing to do with the number of servers.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:56:08 GMT
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> "Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Drestin Black wrote:
> >
> > > "Mike Byrns" <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> wrote in message
> > > news:5azE5.125728$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > <snip well written reply>
> > >
> > > > My position exactly!!! Keep it up but realize that to beat the
> opponent
> > > you
> > > > must ARGUE better not only have the best position. Many campaigns
> have
> > > been
> > > > lost by better opponents with lesser debate skills.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time and reply Mike. I have taken your comments to
> heart.
> >
> > Thanks Drestin and I hope ther are no hard feelings. You are obviously
> just as
> > much an experienced professional as I am. Maybe moreso. I just want to
> make
> > sure the Dolly's in the crowd get rebutted. PS how much you wanna bet
> s/he's an
> > out of work Linux admin?
> >
>
> No hard feelings. I get worked up and come out swinging often. I've been in
> the trenches for 20 years now and just can't stand those like "Dolly"
> either. Lies just burn my botton...
>
> Linux admins get paid? Thought it was information for free for everyone!!
Oh, Drestin... :-) 20 years? What'd ya do before Windows? BTW, nice
to be on civil ground again.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:08:24 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> Really? That's the best test?
> How about instead, I give you a budget of $10,000,000.00, including your
> time and the time of any other people involved in the project. Now, build a
> web site that will generate $1 billion dollars in revenue.
> How much are you saving with Linux?
I'll take you up on that. But let's first see the colour of
your money. Send me a cheque for $10,000,000 (USD, not Mexican
pesos... oh, I'll take Mexican pesos if you are hard up) to
my postal address:
Jacques B.M. Guy
PO Box 5088
Pinewood, Victoria 3149
Australia
Listen, if you can't raise 10M overnight, I'll take a
deposit and trust you. Would 10K would be too much for
you?
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:15:49 -0400
You claim that my statement that I have not harassed and denigrated OS/2
developers is a lie. You maintain that you are an OS/2 developer. I
have never harassed and denigrated 'OS/2 developers' or anyone else and
your claim is disgusting. Apologize or face the consequences.
Marty wrote:
>
> "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > Marty wrote:
> > >
> > > "David T. Johnson" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > >> Your post is off-topic for COOA. Read the newsgroup charter you
> > > > > > > >> worthless and clueless poor excuse for an alleged "OS/2 Advocate"
> > > > > > > >> (whose primary mission appears to be to harrass and denigrate
> > > > > > > >> remaining, active OS/2 developers. Are you working for Microsoft?)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers. Please delete
> > > > > > > >this post or face the consequences.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brad Wardell is an OS/2 developer. Marty Amodeo is an OS/2 developer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Assuming for argument sake that they are active OS/2 developers,
> > > > >
> > > > > No need to assume in one case.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have not harassed and denigrated them.
> > > > >
> > > > > ha·rass (hrs, h-rs)
> > > > > v. tr. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.To irritate or torment persistently.
> > > > > 2.To wear out; exhaust.
> > > > > 3.To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.
> > > >
> > > > You initiated a series of "flame" posts, Marty, with attacks on me that
> > > > have continued to escalate. Are you now claiming that I am harassing
> > > > you, Marty?
> > >
> > > Here's what I'm claiming, since you missed it the first time:
> > >
> > > DTJ] I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers.
> > >
> > > This statement is a lie.
> >
> > I will not allow you or Glatt to make the completely false claim that I
> > have undertaken a campaign of harassment and denigration against OS/2
> > developers.
>
> My claim is above. Here it is again:
> DTJ] I have never harassed and denigrated OS/2 developers.
> This statement is a lie.
>
> Your interpretation of my claim is not at all equivalent to my claim.
>
> > > And here's the proof:
>
> [see end of article]
>
> > Your proof establishes that I have made personal comments to you in
> > Usenet newsgroups.
>
> Wrong. It matches up your statements with the appropriate definitions of
> "denigrate" and "harass".
>
> > It does not establish that I have harassed and denigrated you
>
> It establishes precisely that.
>
> > or OS/2 developers.
>
> Psst... I am an OS/2 developer.
>
> > You have avoided my question.
>
> On the contrary, I have directly addressed it.
>
> > I did not ask you if you are claiming that I am a liar.
>
> Nonetheless, I reserve the right to point out your lies as they occur.
>
> > I asked you if you are claiming that I have harassed you.
>
> And I answered the question directly with evidence.
>
> > Glatt has accused me of undertaking a campaign of denigration and
> > harassment of OS/2 developers. This is a serious accusation.
>
> What Glatt has accused you of is irrelevant.
>
> > Are you joining him in this accusation?
>
> Please reread my claim and comprehend it this time.
>
> > As for your post, frankly I don't see how you can post this stuff and
> > look at yourself in the mirror.
>
> How ironic.
>
> > You have repeatedly attacked me over the last week
>
> What I did or did not do has no effect on the truth value of the statement
> which I am questioning. Your statement is a lie, whether I went bowling,
> built a pyramid, or made funny faces at you all day.
>
> > because you did not like the comments I posted on 1)
> > Wenham's pattern of posting, 2) The ugly thread falsely suggesting Dr.
> > Tholen was insane, and 3)the hundreds of off-topic posts being made in
> > COOA. You disagreed with my opinions on these three topics and you
> > began making a series of posts consisting of name-calling, insults, and
> > various personal attacks.
>
> More evidence of your reading comprehension problems. I didn't care one iota
> about the content of what you posted other than its inherent hypocrisy. I've
> stated so on at least 4 occassions.
>
> > If you are joining Glatt in his accusation that I have harassed and
> > denigrated OS/2 developers,
>
> Please reread my claim again and comprehend it this time.
>
> > you had better have something better than your definition from a
> > dictionary and the quotes you reference below.
>
> Why? They are all that I need to show that your statement was a lie.
>
> > If you are not joining him, you should state so clearly and
> > unequivocally here and now, because, without a statement to the
> > contrary, your two posts here suggest otherwise.
>
> Only to those with poor reading comprehension skills, such as yourself.
>
> > > > > den·i·grate (dn-grt)
> > > > > v. tr. den·i·grat·ed, den·i·grat·ing, den·i·grates.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame.
> > > > > 2.To disparage; belittle: The critics have denigrated our efforts.
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] I have only called you a 'liar' and a 'hypocrite.'
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] perhaps you need to reevaluate your surroundings since you fail to
> > > > > impress me as being extraordinarily bright, yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] H-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] I doubt that your typical comments can be "dumbed" down any further.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] As for the substance of your comment, it appears to be as garbled
> > > > > and confused as Marty's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] I am starting to feel like I am being flamed by a gaggle of
> > > > > fifth-graders.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] I was pointing to Marty's mental confusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > > Harass: 1,3
> > > > >
> > > > > DTJ] The entire thrust of your posts over the last week seems to be
> > > > > personal attacks. I am losing respect for you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Denigrate: 1,2
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > >
> > > Clear?
> > >
> > > > [Remaining post untrimmed to accomodate your needs]
> > >
> > > You might try reading it next time, to "accomodate" [sic] yours.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:42:45 -0500
You didn't answer the question.
"Jacques Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > Really? That's the best test?
>
> > How about instead, I give you a budget of $10,000,000.00, including your
> > time and the time of any other people involved in the project. Now,
build a
> > web site that will generate $1 billion dollars in revenue.
>
> > How much are you saving with Linux?
>
> I'll take you up on that. But let's first see the colour of
> your money. Send me a cheque for $10,000,000 (USD, not Mexican
> pesos... oh, I'll take Mexican pesos if you are hard up) to
> my postal address:
>
> Jacques B.M. Guy
> PO Box 5088
> Pinewood, Victoria 3149
> Australia
>
> Listen, if you can't raise 10M overnight, I'll take a
> deposit and trust you. Would 10K would be too much for
> you?
------------------------------
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Date: Thu,12 Oct 2000 02:32:06+2000
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------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:50:52 GMT
And LinuxTrolls complained about my generalisation "Linux lags behind
Windows" yet here we find one doing exactly the same as I did: "Linux
outperforms Windows".
You don't mention wether you are running on the same hardware or wether
you are running consoles on Linux under X or without X.
I did my own tests and found both Linux and Windows ran at about the
same speed. Running POVray on Linux without X compared to Windows
revealed Windows was faster. All done on the same hardware.
--
---
Pete
Coming soon: Kylix!
(I do not need the destruction of Microsoft to succeed).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Poptarts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in an OS:
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:00:28 -0700
Gardiner Family wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I am no win advocate or Linux advocate, however, if I were to design an
>OS these are some of the features:
>
>1. Linux Kernel
Oddly enough every Linux distro ships with a Linux Kernel
>2. Standardised GUI, either, MacOS or Windows like interface
Linux has two standards KDE or Gnome take your pick, if windows is more to
your taste I recomend KDE
>3. Simplified Library structure similar to what Amiga had (ie,
>icons.library, fonts.library, printers.library)
Probably the best Linux distro in terms of it's Library structure has to be
IMHO Slackware , RedHat is the worst for this don't go there.
>4. ReiserFS as the file system
Hey! how about that Linux has the Reiser file system!
>5. A windows interpreter, when a program makes a call it goes through a
>filter (like wine) and matchs the windows dll call with the UNIX
>equivilant.
>
Like wine? well yes I do!
>Both Windows and Linux have great attributes, Linux, opensourced and
>very stable. Windows, easy to use and administrate. By combining the
>power of a UNIX core and the simplicity of the Windows GUI there would
>be a balance between simplicity, functionality and flexibility. (a
>concept very similar to the MacOS X project).
>
>feel free to reply, no flaming please.
>From your list offhand i'd say your a lot closer to Linux than you might
think, Linux may seem unfriendly at first but believe me with time Linux
becomes as user friendly as windows, perhaps more so.
>
>matt
>
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