Linux-Advocacy Digest #639, Volume #29 Fri, 13 Oct 00 19:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (FM)
Re: What I would like to see in an OS: (Gardiner Family)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing ("Boris Dynin")
Re: What I would like to see in an OS: ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Shane Phelps)
Re: Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player! (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: David T. Johnson lies again ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Astroturfing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: David T. Johnson lies again (Marty)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:52:25 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> El lun, 09 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
>> ><rolleyes> They're not commenting on the genetic difference between
>> >humans and neanderthals, they're commenting on the common picture of
>> >neanderthals among the general population as stupid brutes.
>>
>> They are commenting on the appearance of neanderthals. Since that's all we have
>> to base our guess of their genetical differences, it does matter.
>
>Oh, of course, the fact that Neanderthals never possessed any language
>doesn't matter at all. This is entirely superficial, irrelevant and a
>matter of appearance only.
Where did this presumption that Neanderthals never possessed any
language come from? There is no way of knowing if they possessed
language; and they were probably physically capable of it.
>> >> >Libertarians and Fascists versus Marxists, Anarcho-Syndicalists and
>> >> >Stalinists.
>> >>
>> >> I'm none of those.
>> >
>> >Which means nothing. I know extreme right-wingers who identify
>> >neither with Libertarianism nor Fascism.
>>
>> What can I say? My political position is known by me and not by you.
>
>And not even by you. "probably" to the left of the main US parties ??
>Doesn't sound like you know anything about your political position.
GUFFAW.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (FM)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: 13 Oct 2000 21:43:38 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>No, you are wrong. I have been in discussions on and off with a few
>other people in my department over the past couple of years about
>exactly what constitutes OO, and our conclusion was that for a system
>to be OO, you have to have a system of entities which support both
>predicates and relations upon them, where predicates effectively
>describe things like the type and object identity, and the relations
>describe things like object properties/fields and messages/methods.
>
>There is no requirement that all entities be objects in the usual
>sense, or that objects support things like polymorphism or
>inheritance[*]. The best way of thinking about it (IMHO) is that the
>distinguishing feature of OO is that the objects carry round with them
>the sense of what predicates they satisfy and what relations they are
>members of (as opposed to both procedural and functional paradigms
>where the predicates/relations are only tenuously connected to the
>data.)
>
>You would, of course, be right to say that this means in fact that it
>is easy (well, not too hard) to layer OO on top of both procedural and
>functional paradigms (so long as they support the notion of a variable
>that refers to a procedure/function and structured aggregation.) This
>has been done many times in various ways. For Smalltalk, Self, and
>others to go round proclaiming themselves to be "True OO" and that the
>rest are just hacks is, frankly, just Spin Doctoring and PR.
Actually, your definition would allow any procedural
language with support for operator overloading record
type as OO. The difference between
SomeMethod(a, b, c)
and
a.SomeMethod(b, c)
is purely syntactic and shouldn't distinguish OO from
non-OO.
In fact all procedural languages with support for operator
overloading can be considered to have functions (predicates,
relations or otherwise) bound to data. I don't think this
remotely satisfies what the essence of OO is. In some way,
the reason why there's much confusion about this is probably
because there really wasn't anything special about OO to
begin with. I stand by my assertion that runtime polymorphism
is the only thing that is common among various OO languages
and is the only requirement for a language to allow one to
program OO.
Dan.
------------------------------
From: Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in an OS:
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:55:41 +1300
I wonder if there are hardware advocacy groups? could you imagine,
comp.sys.ide.advocacy or comp.sys.scsi.advocacy, LOL (laugh out loud, for those
who donot know what it means)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Try OS/400.
>
> claire
>
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:22:19 -0400, "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >The FIRST thing I would LOVE to see in an OS is NO ADVOCACY news group for
> >it.
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:57:15 GMT
1. You didn't address the point.
2. You use vulgar language to make yourself feel good.
3. Please stop insulting me.
4. Address the topic, if indeed you can.
5. You are doing Linux more harm than you realize. But go ahead and be
my guest.
Idiot, that you are.
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:44:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
>> protect the innocent.
>
> <snip>
>
>> claire
>
>Saw that you left your own name in there, though. You know, if you quit
>being such a whore for the great corporations out there, it might go a
>long way to curing your guilty conscience...
>
>Just a thought. You know, in case you needed a classic example of
>unfriendly Linux users, too.
>
>-ws
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:05:37 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> It seems to me that you are confusing (or 'arbitrarily constructing', if
>> you want) the designation "H20" to mean a single molecule of water,
>
>No. It can be any number of molecules of water as long as their
>properties are not significantly different from a single molecule
>of water. Steam counts, ice and water do not.
Says you. I don't understand why you think there is any validity to
your concept. H20 is the designation for the molecule which makes up
steam, ice, or liquid water. Water doesn't act like ice, but they're
both H20. They're also both water; one of them is merely frozen water.
You see, perhaps in presuming that language works algorithmically and
simplistically, you assumed that the word 'water' cannot mean both
liquid H20 and anything consisting of H20, regardless of its other
physical properties.
>> rather than water, as it correctly does. 'H20' is not a water molecule;
>> it is *the* water molecule (or symbols for it) used as a designation for
>
>Actually, it isn't. aqueous is N*[H2O] where N is 3 or 6 IIRC.
Only if the water has nitrogenous in it. It does not require this to be
'water', it merely generally does have this characteristic. You are
making an inductive fallacy.
>You wouldn't say that a triangle is a point so why are you
>saying that a tiling pattern made up of triangles is a point?
I don't know what your analogy is supposed to mean, and suspect its
flawed, but my point is that you are making an inductive fallacy, and
trying to pass it off as knowledge.
>Saying that H2O designates water is like saying that Carbon
>designates diamond or graphite.
No, its like saying diamonds and graphite are carbon; they are. It is
also like saying C designates Carbon; it does.
>> the substance made up of such molecules. You see how that works?
>> Perhaps you simply forgot this, as it is a somewhat metaphorical
>> reference. Kind of like saying "man" when you mean all men, as in "man
>> has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, or more."
>
>When I say that corporations are psychopathic, I am not being
>metaphorical.
I know; that's why you're so wrong. When anybody else appears to agree
with your position, Richard, rest assured they are being metaphorical.
It is not rational to believe that corporations have actual mental
processes, and can be susceptible to psychological problems like
psychopathy.
>There's time for metaphor and when I say something
>that contradicts what most people like to think, then that is
>not such a time.
Hammy. I wonder what that's supposed to mean.
>> But you confuse this simple law with a simplistic assumption that all
>> different meanings are separate formal, rather than merely contextual
>> and transient, definitions. When one says "Gimme some H20", you are
>> generally asking for more than a small number of water molecules. A
>> related usage which would be useful to compare would be DNA.
>
>If someone says "give me some H2O" then they aren't saying "give me water".
Yes they are; most people know that H20 is the chemical designation for
water.
>You could give them ice, steam, whatever. You're correct that H2O can mean
>water, but Roberto is incorrect in asserting that water can mean H2O.
Yes, water does mean H20, when you're using it in an appropriate
situation, such as a scientific laboratory. When a researcher says to
an assistant "hand me that flask of water", the assistant doesn't say
"What? Oh, you mean this flask labeled 'H20'" unless they're being
cutesy, or annoyingly pedantic, as you are.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: "Boris Dynin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:05:01 -0700
Blah-blah-blah.
Asshole.
"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> What are the chances that a company as PR aware as Microsoft would allow
> these advocacy forums to exist with astroturfing them? Pretty close to
> zero I would say.
>
> So given that there must be astroturfers here how would we spot them?
> - Not having a real job to go to they make lots of posts.
> - They are technically competent on MS stuff (not wizards, but
> competent).
> - They use the standard bullet-points and marketing buzzwords that look
> a bit out of place in an informal Usenet post, so that they read like
> advertising copy. (like "Advantages to the business", and "Fortune
> 500")
> - Talks up Windows 2000 a lot (because it's the latest upgrade and MS
> lives on upgrades)
> - Defends MS when anyone says "anti-trust".
> - Has a slightly salesman feel about them.
> - Doesn't directly attack Linux, but makes sly comments like ("great for
> mom-and-pop operations cutting costs")
>
> Any others?
>
> So who are the astroturfers? Obviously Mike Byrns, but who else?
> ---
> Nick
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in an OS:
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:04:53 GMT
I couldn't find any on ATT.Worldnet.
Here is what they offer:
Sex,adoption,infosystems,java,pascal,linux,windows,os/2,acorn,amiga,atari,be,soundcard,mac,next,powerpc,
unix,food,games,roleplaying,video,dvd.
I suspect the hardware advocacy get's pretty nasty. Maybe it's in one
of the hardware groups?
Could be pretty entertaining at any rate :)
claire
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:55:41 +1300, Gardiner Family
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I wonder if there are hardware advocacy groups? could you imagine,
>comp.sys.ide.advocacy or comp.sys.scsi.advocacy, LOL (laugh out loud, for those
>who donot know what it means)
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Try OS/400.
>>
>> claire
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:22:19 -0400, "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >The FIRST thing I would LOVE to see in an OS is NO ADVOCACY news group for
>> >it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:41:42 +1000
I don't even *want* to know :-)
TTFN
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> If you only knew.
> But you don't.
>
> claire
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:29:55 +1000, Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Mike Byrns wrote:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >[ snip ]
> >>
> >> Oh, Claire. We really need more like you. It's not a boys club!
> >
> >It is when the Steve personality takes over :-)
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player!
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:04:24 GMT
In article <8s6fii$3u1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <8s1a31$ebc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8s0kaa$9tq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <8rupti$rmi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message
> > > > news:8rtr5m$1bn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[snip]
> > > Visit:
> > > http://www.dvdcca.org/
> > >
> > > http://www.dvdcca.org/dvdcca/data/pres/cptwg_20000615.pdf
[snip]
> > > The entire governing body consists of 6 voting members:
> > >
> > > Two content owners - (MPAA?).
> > > Two Software companies (Microsoft and ?).
> > > Two from the Consumer electroncs Industry (Sony and ?).
> >
> > <Snip the rest>
> > Nowhere on the website, or on any of those links could I find
> > reference to
> > MS being a member.
> > Is there somewhere which actually states the members?
>
> No reply? I'm going to assume that you made an assumption when you
> said MS were one of the software companies involved.
Here are some more notable sites.
http://people.a2000.nl/mwielaar/dvd-css/csspaper/css.html
An interesting discussion of CSS details not covered by nondisclosures
and publish in the .nl domain (netherlands?). It certainly wouldn't be
hard to create software based on this specification.
www.mediamatics.com/pr-articles/102797pr.htm
This kind of narrows down the number of players. Mediamatics is
actually wholly owned by National Semiconductor Corporation.
http://www2.pcworld.com/pcwtoday/article/0%2C1510%2C14316%2C00.html
And where did this wealth of information come from?
The MSN search engine :-).
Search for "Content Scrambling System". Microsoft's archive is much
better than the others (on this topic).
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 50 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:12:36 GMT
David T. Johnson writes [to Marty]:
> You continue to repeat the same arguments which futilely attempt to
> characterize my replys to your personal attacks and name-calling as
> 'harassment and denigration' of OS/2 developers. You have falsely
> accused me of harassment and denigration of OS/2 developers. For that,
> you will have to answer.
Marty has also falsely accused me of a "smear crusade" against an
OS/2 ISV. What do you suppose causes such strange behavior?
Meanwhile, he's not said anything about Glatt's libelous claim
that my own OS/2 software lost its certification. Makes you wonder
if Marty recognizes a real "smear crusade" when he sees one.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:18:29 GMT
Exactly!
Linux sinks like a lead balloon under it's own weight. It's sinking
faster than the Titanic all on it's own. Sure as hell doesn't need any
help from me.
claire
"If You Think You Hate Linux Now Wait Till You Try It"
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:05:01 -0700, "Boris Dynin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Blah-blah-blah.
>
>Asshole.
>
>"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> What are the chances that a company as PR aware as Microsoft would allow
>> these advocacy forums to exist with astroturfing them? Pretty close to
>> zero I would say.
>>
>> So given that there must be astroturfers here how would we spot them?
>> - Not having a real job to go to they make lots of posts.
>> - They are technically competent on MS stuff (not wizards, but
>> competent).
>> - They use the standard bullet-points and marketing buzzwords that look
>> a bit out of place in an informal Usenet post, so that they read like
>> advertising copy. (like "Advantages to the business", and "Fortune
>> 500")
>> - Talks up Windows 2000 a lot (because it's the latest upgrade and MS
>> lives on upgrades)
>> - Defends MS when anyone says "anti-trust".
>> - Has a slightly salesman feel about them.
>> - Doesn't directly attack Linux, but makes sly comments like ("great for
>> mom-and-pop operations cutting costs")
>>
>> Any others?
>>
>> So who are the astroturfers? Obviously Mike Byrns, but who else?
>> ---
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:22:03 GMT
And another beauty:
More recent Kernels of Linux have forwarding turned off by default,
therefore you have to run the following command each time you boot to
enable
forwarding, (or else put this command in your firewall startup
script):
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
Then ipchains will work with the 'forward' and 'MASQ' parameters.
Without it
in RedHat 6.0 you don't have a hope.
xxxxx
Of course we all know this?
What a joke this Linux is....
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:34:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
>protect the innocent.
>
>>Looks like you're missing the IPs for your DNS server(s). Your ISP
>>may be
>>giving your RH box an IP address, are they also dynamically giving you
>>the
>>DNS numbers? If so, the next step is make sure your W98 clients are
>>getting the LAN side IP address of your RH box as their gateway
>>address.
>>
>>--
>>
>>"xxxxxxxxx" <xxxxxx@..com> wrote in message
>>news:strF5.2595$7h7.45971@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..
>>> Hey to all,
>>> I know this is a perennial post here, but I'm not finding
>>the info
>>> that I need (or at least not in a way that I understand). I'm
>>setting up a
>>> RedHat 6.1 firewall (first experience with Linux, I have a couple of
>>years
>>> of experience networking with M$) through a cable modem. RedHat is
>>> receiving an IP from my ISP's server, and logging in for me. I have
>>DHCPD
>>> configured, so RH is assigning my W98 clients IPs, (my subnet is a
>>class A
>>> w/ a netmask of 255.255.255.0) and those boxes can ping one another.
>>My
>>> goal is to have a firewall that passes web pages, email & FTP on to
>>my
>>> client machines.
>>> Earlier today, I used EMACS to creat a
>>"/etc/rc.d/rc.modules" file
>>> containing...
>>>
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_cuseeme
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_irc
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_ftp
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_raudio
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_quake
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_vdolive
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_mfw
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_user
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_autofw
>>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_portfw
>>>
>>> Then, at a prompt I typed
>>>
>>> /sbin/ipchains -P forward DENY
>>> /sbin/ipchains -A forward -j MASQ -s 12.34.56.0/24 -d 0.0.0.0/0
>>>
>>> Now I can ping IP addresses through the Linux box, but I can't ping
>>FQDN's,
>>> and I can't pull up web pages. I also tried FTP, nogo. So, what
>>gives?
>>> What am I overlooking? I obtained all of this info from here
>>> (http://www.vortech.net/rrlinux/redmasq.htm). I did read the
>>IPCHAINS HOWTO
>>> & scanned through the MAN pages for ipchains, and either I'm
>>overlooking the
>>> answer, or neither contains what I'm looking for.
>>> Can someone help? Also, how will I need to configure my
>>browser
>>> when I'm ready to surf? Will I put the IP address of the close side
>>of my
>>> router & port 80 in the proxy info box, or do I just leave that
>>blank?
>>> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>>>
>>>
>>> -xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>>> Linux Wannabe
>
>
>This is a piece of cake with either Norton Firewall, ZoneAlarm (free)
>or BlackIce or SonicWall which I believe is also free for personal
>use.
>
>Install it and it will do exactly what this poor soul is trying to do
>as well as a hell of a lot more.
>
>I have to wonder how many hours this person played with Emacs to even
>get this far?
>
>claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:23:34 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> 1. You didn't address the point.
Your point boiled down to something ridiculous like Linux users need to
spend hours with emacs to get their firewall going. I gave it about as
much attention as it deserved. Perhaps too much.
> 2. You use vulgar language to make yourself feel good.
Well, it was just one word. By USENET standards, that's pretty polite.
But I'll tame it down a little if you can't take it, you ninny.
> 3. Please stop insulting me.
Only when you stop insulting everyone else's intelligence here.
> 4. Address the topic, if indeed you can.
See #1, above.
> 5. You are doing Linux more harm than you realize. But go ahead and be
> my guest.
Wait a sec... Does this mean I can continue to insult you? It seems #5
cannot coexist with #3 on the above list. I'm impressed -- usually it
takes a big long post in order for the wintrolls show off their
inability to grasp basic logic. You must be amongst the best and the
brightest.
> Idiot, that you are.
Whatever. Twit.
-ws
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: David T. Johnson lies again
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:31:01 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> David T. Johnson writes [to Marty]:
>
> > You continue to repeat the same arguments which futilely attempt to
> > characterize my replys to your personal attacks and name-calling as
> > 'harassment and denigration' of OS/2 developers. You have falsely
> > accused me of harassment and denigration of OS/2 developers. For that,
> > you will have to answer.
>
> Marty has also falsely accused me of a "smear crusade" against an
> OS/2 ISV. What do you suppose causes such strange behavior?
> Meanwhile, he's not said anything about Glatt's libelous claim
> that my own OS/2 software lost its certification. Makes you wonder
> if Marty recognizes a real "smear crusade" when he sees one.
I certainly have recognized Tim Martin's smear crusades (note plural).
------------------------------
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Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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