Linux-Advocacy Digest #776, Volume #29 Sat, 21 Oct 00 02:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux or Solaris (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Ms employees begging for food (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World? ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: Astroturfing ("Chad Myers")
Re: Astroturfing ("Chad Myers")
Re: IBM to BUY MICROSOFT!!!! ("Chad Myers")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux or Solaris
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:11:00 GMT
Think Linux isn't becoming popular? Check this recent COLA article posting.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here's a little article on what Compaq thinks of Oracle for Linux:
>
> http://www.wininformant.com/display.asp?ID=2944
>
> Notice the last paragraph, and I quote:
> ***************************************************************************
> But today, Linux is not very useful beyond simple Web, mail, and DNS
> services on small Intel-based servers, she says. Linux is "not for
> database servers or online transaction processing. The independent
> software vendor support [is not there]: Oracle has to do the next
> version of its database [for Linux] because the current one is
> horrible."
>
> **********************************************************************
>
> claire
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:43:45 +0200, Malte Ubl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >we are currently developing a business a plan for a rather
> >large e-commerce site.
> >
> >I am trying to figure out which is the best direction to
> >go concerning server and database technology. One possibility,
> >of course would be to walk the SUN/Oracle path. But you can buy
> >20 Linux boxes for the price of one sun server. So Linux might
> >be the way to go. On the other hand, I heard the Oracle for
> >Linuy is supposed to suck. So if we go with Linux which database
> >would you recommend and how well do they compared to Oracle.
> >
> >I appreciate you comments,
> >
> >Malte Ubl
We have this man Malte Ubl asking for advice on which way to go -
Linux or Solaris. The article isn't titled "Windows or Linux" - it's
titled "Linux or Solaris".
The man is asking for advice on which unix to use.
So this person called claire_lynn replies with an article
from a Windows advocacy website "wininformant" with
the article she did referencing the comments of a
Judy Chavis representing Compaq Computer corporation
of Tomball Texas.
The website "wininformant" is apparently funded by
Windows2000 magazine. http://www.win2000mag.com/
You can see this link in the upper right corner of the
web page.
You also see a link back to wininfo on the win2000mag.com page.
This link shows what the web site was launched for.
http://www.win2000mag.net/About/
>From here you will find this link.
http://www.win2000mag.net/about/legal.cfm
Duke Communications International, Inc. ("Duke") right there on line #1.
There is NO link here, you have to type it in yourself.
This takes us to the following link.
http://www.duke.com/
Notice it says on this page a subsidiary or penton media.
Then you find down lower a link right back to
Win2000mag on the lower part of the page.
You will also see a link in here for AS400 network magazine!
This takes us to this.
http://www.duke.com/about.cfm
Which takes us to here.
http://www.penton.com/
And also here
http://www.penton.com/profile/index.html
And also here.
http://www.penton.com/news/releases/2000/091500_duke.html
Then we go here.
http://www.penton.com/news/releases/index.html
http://www.penton.com/services/index.html
http://www.penton.com/invest/index.html
Then we have this.
http://www.internet.com/penton/corporate/releases/00.04.14-ispcon.html
This is a very closely guarded dead end.
Then I decided to follow this track.
http://www.google.com/search?q=penton+microsoft&hl=en&lr=&safe=off
There are 68 full pages of links tying penton to microsoft for years.
It's extremely interesting reading.
Where ever a trade show or even happens which covers Microsoft, there
is penton. The two are inseparable.
penton has been acquiring several media companies in the last few years.
The word anti-trust kept coming up many times on the search.
Seems like anti-trust and penton run hand in hand.
I find it strange that we find this many links between penton and Microsoft
as penton is mainly just a holding company for media. They don't actually
have their own magazine from what I can see. They own magazines,
web-sites, and do many trade shows.
There was even some mention in the list about an anti-trust lawsuit being
dropped shortly before the purchase of duke.
http://subscribe.penton.com/publist.html#ALPHALIST
That's a list of all the magazines they claim to have.
But there is no mention of duke nor windows 2000 magazine.
Yet if you go back to here.
http://www.duke.com/about.cfm
And click on the link you end up back at penton.
Click here
http://www.win2000mag.net/About/
And you can read about NT magazine being created in 1995.
The coincides with the last reported references form google.
So now I'm heading back to win2000mag and I do a search on Linux.
http://www.win2000mag.com/Search/SearchResults.cfm?SearchString=Linux
I found 92 results about 92 stories concerning Linux being BAD, Linux being
inferior,
how Windows kicked Linux's ass in just about everything.
So now I'm going after Judy Chavis. I want to read about what she's
been saying about Linux and why Compaq tolerates her.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Judy+Chavis+Compaq&hl=en&lr=&safe=off
Well! I found this!
http://industry2.java.sun.com/softwarenews/story/print/0,2801,683,00.html
http://lwn.net/2000/0629/a/caldera-powertour.php3
http://industry.java.sun.com/javanews/stories/story2/0,1072,27294,00.html
http://industry.java.sun.com/javanews/stories/print/0,1797,27294,00.html
Then I went to Compaq's site and did a search.
http://www5.compaq.com/Partners/sco/contacts.html
Compaq Solutions Centers
Compaq Solutions Alliance
Compaq and SCO
Contacts
Compaq Worldwide
Mary McDowell
VP & Gen Mgr ISSG (Relationship Executive)
Tam Vuong
Global Alliance Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
281.518.6327
Judy Chavis
Manager, UNIX Product Marketing - ISSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
281.514.6739
I found this.
She was SCO then when Caldera bought them I guess
she became the Caldera rep for Compaq.
Yet if you do a search on the Compaq web site using the
word Linux, all you find is RedHat.
Considering how Caldera bought out SCO - you can make the connection.
Yet if you read ANY of her other articles you will see her singing a
different tune.
This was all very interesting reading and I thought I would share it
with you.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:15:21 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> >MS actually had to pull back a security fix to the OS because of Lotus'
>> >incompetency.
>>
>> Yes, yes, we know; its always the poor programming of competitors; its
>> never Microsoft's anti-competitive development. Sure.
>
>Now your getting the picture. Took you long enough.
What, you're too stupid to understand sarcasm, as well as generally
ignorant of anti-trust law?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:24:56 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" wrote:
[...]
>That's OK because you do not have to redesign your application every two
>years. Software written correctly for Windows 95 runs just fine on Windows
>2000 sans the new features. For that matter, almost all software that
>written for Windows 3.0 runs fine on 2000 as well. You might find a
>compelling business reason for updating your software to take advantage of
>newer OS features -- maybe your competitor is doing it -- but that's hardly
>a redesign.
Yea, sure. Right. Uh-huh.
(In case you don't understand sarcasm, the message is: "you're full of
shit, Mike.")
>> Many ISVs and Niche market vendors are opting not to redesign
>> their code to exploit Windows 2000 features. They are pretty much
>> telling customers to live with the NT 4 implementation if they can.
>
>That will last until their competitor's update their software package and
>engineer a clean migration path.
They don't have any competitors. Just the monopoly, and other ISVs who
are equally locked in to the monopoly. You need a free market before
there is competition.
>> In some cases, vendors are even telling customers NOT to upgrade
>> to Windows 2000 (since Microsoft may have altered DLLs).
>
>There's a mature development organization :-). Maybe the vendor could
>_TEST_ it under Windows 2000? Hmm...
And maybe MS could come out with a "service pack"? Hmmm? Or maybe an
Office upgrade? Or IE 8.x, if necessary?
[...]
>> Then you back that up with support teams like Global Services
>> Consulting and Outsourcing.
>
>Yeah -- you'll need it with WebSphere. We were so much happier with IIS on
>NT. And so much more productive.
As long as you define "productive" as "using the fact that the majority
of the user base is locked involuntarily in to Microsoft crapware".
I'll bet you're productive.
[...]
>> Of course, if you can walk in with your "ready to run CD-ROM" and
>> deliver a fully functional product using canned Open Source modules,
>> that require a few hours of tuning, and can be maintained by people
>> who already know PERL or Java or Python, and Linux, then you have
>> a high profit "product". Essentially, this is what ASPs are.
>
>Or you can just install a Windows product that doesn't require all that
>tuning and expertise. IIS was much easier to setup than Apache/JServe OR
>WebSphere.
Set up? Sure; just don't resist it, and it will be crammed down your
throat. But maintain? Well; just go along with the monopoly; you'll be
fine.
[...]
>That would be great! Make sure you disclose every step taken to make that
>linux desktop look and work the way you display becuase when they get it
>out of the box and it doesn't work the way it did in the store then they
>will return it and get Windows.
Nobody believes your horse-shit, Mike. The only reason you aren't an
entirely pathetic baffoon is that there's still millions of people
locked into the monopoly.
[...]
>What about the Macs?
Well, those are different computers.
>And the copies of RedHat on the shelves?
They move off the shelves pretty quick, actually. I'll bet quicker than
the retail W2K boxes.
>The
>differentiating factors are service, price, speed and capacity. You pick
>the best mix for you.
As long as its whatever mix Microsoft provides, eh? None, none, none,
and none, but they have a monopoly, so too bad, eh?
[...]
>> > Sure. Reinvent the wheel every time.
>>
>> Actually, you have to reinvent the wheel when the only wheel in
>> existence is copyrighted, trademarked, and protected by nondisclosure
>> agreements indended to have the very IDEA of the wheel protected by
>> "trade secret" laws.
>
>How about using the wheel you've got? Works fine for most folks. Special
>needs? There are other wheels you can buy...
Yea, you *could* keep using a tricycle, because you've been FUD'd away
from trying a Harley. If you're stupid, or a victim of a monopoly, that
is. ;-)
>> It's OpenSource that lets you start with your choice of 8 different
>> types of wheel, along with reccomendations as to which is best for
>> which type of road, and then lets you move on to your choice of 5
>> different engines, 9 different upholstry types, 5 cab types, and
>> your choice of "economy", "luxury", "sporty", or "rugged" suspension
>> systems.
>
>And Windows allows you to choose among Windows 98SE, Millenium, NT
>Workstation, Server, Enterprise Server, Windows 2000 Professional, Server,
>Advanced Server or Datacenter. [...]
I'm laughing so hard I am choking, to the point I can't even type
"ROTFLMAO!"
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World?
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:34:42 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8sr6i8$f1s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A monopoly is when you have all of them.
>
> Wrong. For all of you who have flunked Econ-101, you're a monopoly when
> you have such an overwhelming share of the market that you can
> effectively excercise control over the marketshare you don't have.
If you knew anything about the history of computing you would realize that
Microsoft gained it's market by the stupidity of other companies, not by
anything close to a monopoly.
IBM had it's chance. So did Apple. They both blew it. So did many others.
Gates hung in there, made some good choices (and many bad ones), and kept
trying to make his products better.
Look at Novell. They owned the file sharing market in the PC world. And let
it slip away.
Look at Sybase. They SOLD their SQL Server code to Microsoft. Eventually
Microsoft commited enough resources to rebuild SQL Server and 7.0 and 2000
are great products.
Etc etc.
>
> If MSFT changed the format for Word documents, Corel and Sun would have
> to follow suit with WordPerfect and StarOffice or get left in the dust.
They would have to learn how to import them. I'm pretty sure Wordperfect did
fine for years and years with a different format than Word. Too bad some
bozos in Utah and Ottawa ran it into the ground.
> That's monopoly power. You don't have to have 100% of the market, you
> just have to have such a preponderance of the market that what few
> competitors exist must either follow your lead or die. That was the
> case with Standard Oil, IBM, AT&T, and now Microsoft.
Standard Oil and AT&T were monoplies.
IBM and Microsoft are not.
Microsoft has competitors for every product they make.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:18:59 GMT
"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Nk4I5.90$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
<SNIP: Why Linux can't detect RAM and Windows can>
>
> If the BIOS does misreport the memory size when Linux queries it, it would
> be interesting to know if Windows gets the same result. Is there anyone
> here who has access to an 810 or 815? If so, find a utility (or write a
> quick one -- it shouldn't take much) to ask BIOS how much memory is on board
> and run it on both Windows and Linux, then report back here with the
> results.
It's not just the 810 or 815. It seems worse on these chipsets (only
detecting 16MB), but it's certainly not limited to.
Several Penguinistas themselves have admitted that this is a problem
in Linux that on all but a scant few newer systems (and still not even
all of them) Linux can't properly detect all the RAM, settling, instead,
for 16,32, or 64MB of RAM without any consistency in this regards.
If you have 128MB in some systems, you must set mem=127MB or suffer
a kernel panic, others 128MB.
Windows, on all these systems, never has one problem detecting and
running with the entire, exact amount of RAM.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:20:47 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:H%7I5.10467$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:p8XH5.9635$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > The Celeron boxes all use the 810 or 810e chipset, and the PIIIs use
> > > > the 815 or 815e chipset, which isn't too much different.
> > > >
> > > > Shall I now explain to you why water is wet?
> > >
> > > No, but you might mention whether the bios in all of these boxes
> > > misreport the memory size if that is what you are trying to imply.
> >
> > What does that have to do with anything? Windows on these same
> > boxes detects the RAM perfectly.
> >
> > -Chad
>
> It has everything to do with the problem you brought up. If the bios
> reports the memory size in the old standard way, Linux will see
> the correct values up to 64M.
But Windows *.* can detect the full amount on all these systems without
any limitations.
> If it uses the new standard way Linux (newer than around 2.0.36 or
> so) will see larger values correctly. If the bios doesn't work,
> perhaps windows is using some proprietary mechanism obtained under
> an NDA.
Or, Linux developers are novice, which is more likely the case
as demonstrated in other areas of the product.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM to BUY MICROSOFT!!!!
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:22:04 GMT
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:39f06621$0$4761$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> So you are saying that your 100% rock solid "proof" of this future event is
> that, since IBM has announced that it is "officially" supporting Linux on
> it's server that WHEN these next generation machines are finally built that
> IBM will be able to insure that the open source community bends to it's will
> and supports this chip, no matter what anyone else might say/think or what
> may happen between now and then.
>
> So, do you work for the psychic network on the side or is that your day job?
> Until it happens it's speculation. It may be likely that it will happen,
> even very likely but until it actually happens you just don't know.
Of course not. He has no use for facts or proof, these are mere inconveniences
for the die-hard Penguinista like "."
-Chad
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
