Linux-Advocacy Digest #779, Volume #29 Sat, 21 Oct 00 03:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: who's WHINING dipshit! (Mike Byrns)
Re: Ms employees begging for food (T. Max Devlin)
Re: who's WHINING dipshit! (Mike Byrns)
Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system. (bob@nospam)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Mike Byrns)
Re: Linux or Solaris (David M. Cook)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Mike Byrns)
Re: Clearing things (David M. Cook)
Re: memory WHINING! (Mike Byrns)
Re: Clearing things (David M. Cook)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: who's WHINING dipshit!
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 06:06:16 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
>
> > Don't tell me how to fix the shortcomings of Linux. Tell me when they have
> a
> > package out that will see all available memory by itself, with no input
> from
> > me and no searching through one and a half million man pages!
> > Once again, and I'll type this slow because I know your not too swift - I
> do
> > not want to edit SHIT! I will continue to use the OS that handles basic
> > hardware automatically.
>
> Just give it hardware with the standard bios functions.
Show me the standard then. You've got to WORK at compatibility. There's no
universally accessible linux compatibility test lab that I know of. Yet another
of the obstacles in the path to the Penguinista's hope of dominance. If a
"non-standard" BIOS emerges and on of the few linux programmers don't have it
then it will NOT end up supported. BTW, can you post any really verifiable
numbers WRT the amount of ardent linux (plus all that shit you folks claim isn't
really linux but is still in the RedHat box) programmers?
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:15:25 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Bruce Hoult wrote:
[...]
>Heh. You've obviosly not been around long enough to understand what greater
>competition Microsoft has faced.
Heh. You have obviously been too stupid to recognize that "competition"
is something that Microsoft has studiously avoided to begin with.
>Four years and Linux will be a memory,
>relegated to the niche of MacOS.
You truly seek to hand-wave the fact that the "niche market" of MacOS is
Macintosh computers?
>Six years and Microsoft will probably lend
>you the mortagage for you next house :-)
If the law is not upheld, six years and we will all owe Microsoft, not
just for our houses, but for everything else we "rent" from the
monopoly, as well.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: who's WHINING dipshit!
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 06:13:14 GMT
2:1 wrote:
> > And to top it off I believe X makes you log off and back on just to change
> > the screen resolution. Windows doesn't.
>
> Well, you believe completely wrong.
> crtl+alt+'+'
> Switches to the next enables resolution.
> ctrl+alt+'-'
> switches to the previousle enabled resolution
>
> So to top it all, unless you're adding a driver that can't be compiled
> as a kernel module, you have to reboot. And that'r rare.
How about one that uses a different X server?
Please show that switching to any of the the most optimized drivers for all the
most current cards do not need a reboot in Mandrake 7.2b3. I'll test it for you.
------------------------------
From: bob@nospam
Subject: Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
Date: 20 Oct 2000 22:30:20 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
>It's what you are left with AFTER the install, that counts however.
>
>Linux leaves far to many things that still have to be done.
>
really?
I install linux, and have NFS, FTP, Telenet, NIS, and any other network
services up and running.
Try to install that shit called windoz, and tell me that again.
And why do I need IIS to use ftp again?
windoz sucks. It is a pretty face with no brain behind it. When you
try to do real work (something other than playing games and watching
porn sites), then Unix is the only system that makes sense to use.
no wonder the internet and the world most critical systems run on
Unix, no some half baked crap called windoz.
As soon as Linux desktop is fully developed, the masses will move to
it completely, and only morons like you will be left it using it.
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 06:23:13 GMT
Peter Seebach wrote:
> In article <Ij9E5.119434$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> wrote:
> >All the WINE folks have to do is to make a control that behaves like the
> >standard windows edit control and clones it's interface.
>
> Okay, so, you're saying this is *totally* documented, and that every interface
> feature that of the control is described clearly in the documentation?
According to the PE export. Yes.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Linux or Solaris
Date: 21 Oct 2000 06:26:04 GMT
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:54:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>software vendor support [is not there]: Oracle has to do the next
I assume he meant "redo".
>version of its database [for Linux] because the current one is
>horrible."
That's not very useful (or particularly credible) information if they don't
say *why* it's horrible.
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:34:35 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >Entirely upheld...pfft. Keep talking out your ass Marx...err...Max
>
> Yes, entirely upheld, anonymous troll.
>
> ><quote>
> >"The structural remedy was never my remedy of choice," Jackson said. It
was
> >"a last resort, and in my judgment, Microsoft's intransigence was the
> >reason."
>
> And this from Judge Jackson, who, despite this statement, served a
> structural remedy to Microsoft.
>
> >At the same time, he said without further elaboration, "Virtually
everything
> >I did may be vulnerable on appeal." The case is headed to an appeals
court
> >in Washington that ruled in favor of Microsoft in an earlier dispute with
> >the government.
> ></quote>
>
> As I've already stated at least three times, in response to various
> Winvocates who try to use this as troll-fodder, any real federal judge
> is quite well aware that *every* thing that he says is "vulnerable" to
> appeal.
"vulnerable ON appeal" your dimness, the sad attempt by you to change that
to "vulnerable TO appeal" has been noted as Devlin Lie # 47,518 though. He
admits everything he did is vulnerable ON appeal, as opposed to NOT
vulnerable on appeal (what a good judge would strive for).
>The question is whether the appeal will be upheld, and no
> federal court judge ever makes a decision which he believes should be
> overturned.
#47,519.
>
> >For a charge which began as an attempt to prohibit integrating a web
browser
> >then radically expanded MID TRIAL! Jackson has clearly demonstrated bias
> >against Microsoft and towards the DOJ, Bias is just about the WORST thing
a
> >judge can do. He will most likely be removed from the case altogether.
>
> No, the charge was monopolization, attempted monopolization, and
> restraint of trade. Your rather sad insistence that there must have
> been bias is merely evidence that you lack the intellect necessary to
> understand the facts of the case. Jackson cannot be "removed from the
> case"; the case is over. Microsoft lost.
Better check your sources on that again (#47,520 duly noted):
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-3153207.html
The federal judge who ruled that Microsoft violated U.S. antitrust law could
be removed from the case in the likely event an appellate panel returns
portions of the case to his court, legal experts say.
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 06:47:46 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:09:53 GMT, Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:09:26 GMT, Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Weevil wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> > http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indMicrosoft.asp
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Also see the related analysis links at the bottom of that page.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That being read, it seems that the boss is winning points for giving
> >> >> people
> >> >> > their choice of operating systems at work. As it should be. They made
> >> >> that
> >> >> > choice at home.
> >> >>
> >> >> People use whatever comes on their computer. They don't "choose" one
> >> >> operating system over another, especially when they're not even aware of a
> >> >> choice.
> >> >
> >> >So they don't read the front page or watch the news? They all know they can buy
> >> >a Mac or get Linux for their PCs. There just not interested because Windows
> >> >satisfies them. Reference the Gallup poll.
> >>
> >> ...then they have to be bailed out by some Linux user because the
> >> local WinDOS user can't even hook up a SCSI chain properly.
> >>
> >
> >And here again is that famous Linux user superiority complex that is SURE to put off
> >almost every computer user on the planet. The average computer user does not have
> >external SCSI peripherals or internal ones for that matter. The average computer
>
> It is just so amazing how much Lemmings conform to their own
> criticisms of others. SCSI peripherals are out there. They are
> lying on the shelves in CompUSA. Inevitably, they will be bought
> and installed by naieve consumers.
But which users? Why would they buy? It follows that they are not as naive as you'd
classed them. These are the folks that understand SCSI ID's and such as well as the
Linux
Lemmings. So we are all doomed to fall off our own chosen cliffs? I think not. There
are more folks that use SCSI fine in Windows than linux. I can prove it.
> There is simply no getting
> around this. It's much like the problem of consumers buying
> hardware that isn't compatible with NT5 or Linux.
Where is the linux hardware compatibility list?
> Now, the naieve don't care that I'm berating their local guru.
Fuck you, I'm a global guru. And you'll have to do better than what you are doing to
be
considered "berating" :-)
> They're just happy when their stuff finally works.
Finally, works out of the box 99%. The rest are hardware failures. Ah the promise of
preload!
> >user will call the technical support line for the item they bought, not spend hours
>
> This presumes that the average consumer would necessarily be
> able to get any use out of a technical support line. This
> not only naievely assumes that there will be a gratis support
> option available
90 days is standard.
> but that the joker on the other end of the
> phone will actually be able to get a random non-technical user
> through the whole process.
If not ask for a supervisor. They (even Microsoft) are contractually obligated. linux
users are on their own from day one.
> You Lemmings have yet to cite this actually occuring in real life.
Please see any of the Windows hardware tech support forums. Tux is closer to a
lemming I
think. Waddles, jumps off things readily, etc. :-)
> [deltetia]
Trademark Jedi. Cut what you can't rebutt. Loser.
> >> ...and on the subject of WinDOS "scanning apps": what Umax bundles
> >> is not very impressive in the least. Linux (gimp+sane) trumps it
> >> by a wide margin. Their attempt at "one touch" scanning is simply
> >> pathetic. The end user is still presented with a screen full of
> >> options they likely don't understand.
> >
> >What does this have to do with the price of tea on China? You want gimp/sane use
> >Photoshop and TWAIN or my personal favorite, JASC's PaintShop Pro and the WIA built
>
> Photoshop costs big money and not every casual user is willing
> to shell out for it.
PaintShop Pro is my fave. Cheap and I don't have to deal with a fscked Mac port :-)
> Meanwhile, a reasonably complete and
> simple Linux option exists for free. They can even get something
> roughly equivalent to Photoshop for free as well.
Yeah ask the home user to figure out Gimp.
> You see, it's quite irrelevant how much tweaking a non-tweaker
> could do. They don't tweak. That's rather the point.
Those that are into editing images do. But they tweak only images or maybe vids.
> >into Windows ME and 2o00. Windows 98 users can use STI as well. They both support
> >image acquisition from scanners, digital still cameras and frame capture from
> >"webcams" over USB, SCSI or IEEE1394. Older parallel devices are supported through
> >their existing TWAIN drivers. The really cool thing is that there is no "one touch"
> >involved at all. You just open the device as if it were a folder and get the
> >pictures. You can even do basic color correction, cropping, rotation, etc. The
>cool
>
> This assumes the the end user aware any of that.
When they connect the USB camera it opens a window with all the pics!
> Images are
> a subject all their own with inherent complexities. It's a
> burden of knowledge that will be imposed on the novice should
> they decide to exploit the full power of their image acquisition
> devices.
That's the same attitude you linux supremacists have of computers. Doesn't sit well
with
mom and pop. Wait -- they don't even know who the fuck you are. :-)
> Shiny happy tools won't help them.
They wanna send a pic to another gramma. Plug camera. See Images. File, send as
email.
Done. Show me that simplicity in lunix :-) Stop running -- the cliff... Ooops....
> [deletia] Cut don't rebutt!
>
> Linux can support a multitude of image acquisition options as well
> and it too has a standardized interface for applications support.
> This is not something that Monopolysoft has an exclusive on.
You are about where we were with TWAIN in Win3. Sorry. :-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Clearing things
Date: 21 Oct 2000 06:51:52 GMT
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:18:20 GMT, Idoia Sainz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Companies do that, even Redhat, SuSE and Debian do, even when
>Debian is not a company.
What do any of these companies/communities lock their customers/users into?
Linux users could probably easily move to *BSD or Solaris or even OS X if
they wanted to.
> Well fetchmail+procmail+sendmail+mutt is on of the most
>extended forms of reading mail Linux people do. I did not mean
>all of them, just the ones you wanted among them.
And there are people who just use all-in-one mail clients. Nobody is forced
to use that combo.
I've used the above combination myself for the last 4 years. It looks
scary, but
* You can just use the stock sendmail config. It works fine out of the box.
No need to touch any config file.
* Procmail works by default, at least on RH. You just need to create a
.procmailrc (or copy one from a coworker like I did.)
* Fetchmail is very easy to setup, with a pseudo-English configuration.
* Mutt has it's fanatical userbase, but Pine would work just as well and is
made to be dummy proof.
If I get tired of Mutt, I can switch to something else without changing
my mail sorting or redoing the POP config. Similarly, if I move to a
different mail sorter, I can stay with the same mail interface. The
interface is probably the most important thing to me.
Also, I can move to qmail, postfix, etc. without affecting anything else.
But, again, there are several all-in-one clients that do POP/IMAP, smtp,
sorting, etc.
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: memory WHINING!
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 06:57:46 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> JS/PL wrote:
> >
> > "Ian Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "JS/PL"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> When I said use your brain, I meant use it, not repeat the same stuff
> > in
> > > >> detail. There is probably something very badly wrong with your
> > > >> installation. C corrupted filesystem or a bad harddisk or something.
> > > >> There are kernel options to allow Linux to see more memory.
> > > >> Try mem=256M or something like it.
> > > >
> > > >That's the point, my objective isn't to hack the kernel, it is to insert
> > a
> > > >disk, hover over the return key for a few minutes and have the thing work
> > in
> > >
> > > You don't need to hack the kernel, there's a point in the Mandrake 7.1
> > install
> > > where you get to enter how much memory you have. All you do is amend the
> > > 64MB value in the text box and change it to 256MB. Not rocket science.
> >
> > I've done that on the second of three installs, it still shows 66mb when the
> > install is complete. I also have a pretty good feeling that just typing
> > mem=256M will not magically work if it doesn't already see the maximum
> > amount available.
>
> It's a command line argument for the kernal
>
> boot: linux mem=256M
>
> There's your fucking answer, now quit whining.
>
> read the man page on lilo.conf, and insert it there as well.
>
> and remember...STOP WHINING!
Hey. In the words of The Terminator, "Fuck you, asshole." :-)
Why don't I have to pass those cryptic kernel parms to any Windows box? Or fuck
with man pages? Becuase it's BETTER.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Clearing things
Date: 21 Oct 2000 07:02:46 GMT
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:42:44 GMT, Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Of course it is. That's why you can access Exchange with:
>a) MAPI Client
>b) Web browser
>c) POP3 Client
>d) IMAP Client
Yes, I know Exchange is not totally worthless.
It's not the server that locks users in, but the extra features of the de
facto default client that *require* that particular server that lock users
in.
As for Netscape being bad boys, too, I don't buy "But they did it first"
type arguments.
Dave Cook
------------------------------
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