Linux-Advocacy Digest #77, Volume #30 Mon, 6 Nov 00 02:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: More Certification (Tim Smith)
Re: More Certification (Tim Smith)
Re: If Microsoft Made Cars: (Osugi)
Re: What I dont like about Linux (Stephen Coursen)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues (Jeff Jeffries)
Re: what happens when an old programmer dies? (Michael Meissner)
Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: Chad Meyers: Blatent liar (Craig Kelley)
Re: what happens when an old programmer dies? (Plato)
Re: The BEST ADVICE GIVEN. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux (Craig Kelley)
Re: Chad Meyers: Blatent liar ("Bruce Schuck")
What a mess.... (Jeff Jeffries)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (Static66)
Re: Wall St dislikes LNUX? (Javaduke)
Re: What I dont like about Linux (Jesper Krogh)
Re: more stuff I wish linux did (Javaduke)
Re: What a mess.... (Javaduke)
Re: If Microsoft Made Cars: (Javaduke)
Re: Definition of WIndows 95: (Javaduke)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: More Certification
Date: 5 Nov 2000 21:02:16 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
VanPopering <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>college is a waste of time as far as computer go. go look at the
>computer sci. list. All the computer classes required - Great. but
>the prerequisites you have to take before them (all the math, calculus,
>etc) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with computers, networking, etc.
>THAT is a waste of time and money. I've asked many Unix/Linux sys admin
Start reading Knuth and tell us how far you get in the exercises without
knowing "all the math, calculus, etc".
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: More Certification
Date: 5 Nov 2000 21:14:03 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I still don't know why those who study computer science at univesity
>tend not to be good software engineers in the real world.
Probably because computer science is not what software engineers do?
Software engineering makes use of many things learned by computer
scientists, so a good software engineer should know something of
computer science.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: Osugi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: If Microsoft Made Cars:
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 05:20:48 GMT
In article <LdnN5.54$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Gavin Cato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you want to pull anything else out of your hat that we all heard
years
> ago you twit?
Ok, how about this old favorite:
"quit wasting bandwidth by quoting the entire 80 line post in addition
to your one line response."
--
Osugi Sakae
I will not be filed, numbered, briefed or debriefed.
I am not a number, I am a free man. -The Prisoner
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Coursen)
Subject: Re: What I dont like about Linux
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 05:33:38 GMT
On 06 Nov 2000 04:03:35 GMT, JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is a list of what I dislike about Linux, though easily solved and not too
>big a deal.
>
>1) Netscape
>The Netscape windows is *always* too tall, fixed easily.
>
>Well, there it is. Thats what i dont like.
Really? For me, it always opens too small.
--
--
Stephen Coursen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you don't do the things that are not worth doing, who will?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:29:42 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 23:36:53 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> >Really?
> >> >I get spam, I go to message> block sender, get asked if I want to
block
> >this
> >> >sender, and the sender is permanently banned. Same goes for killfile,
> >btw.
> >>
> >> ...once you manage to enable the feature first.
> >
> >Enable it? It sits rights there all along.
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> You have to follow a non-intuitive procedure to activate it.
> It's quite likely that most MS-style users wouldn't have the
> patience to research and finish the procedure.
Message>Block sender
How can you make it simplier? By putting a button?
There is *no* need to activate it, it's already there.
> >You can remove it, but there wouldn't be much point in that, would there
be?
> >Got any idea how you killfile someone in Netscape? 5-10 times more
> >difficult.
>
> Making fun of Netscape doesn't make Outhouse any simpler.
You talked about things being hard, please show us how easy it is to make
this in netscape?
IIRC correctly it's Edit>Preferences> and some tweaking there, not very
conveniant.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Jeffries)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 05:55:17 GMT
In article <1PqN5.127687$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>GTK+ absolutely _IS_ object-oriented.
>
>The notion that the use of OO is restricted to C++ is just silly;
>indeed, the fact that C++ doesn't provide GC by default is considered
>by many to be an strike against _C++_ being a particularly capable OO
>language. (The same strike is true for C, of course...)
>
I presume GC is garbage collection. Why do you say that?
--J
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.life.internet,alt.obituaries,alt.society.funerary,alt.windows98,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.society.futures,gnu.misc.discuss,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: what happens when an old programmer dies?
From: Michael Meissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 06 Nov 2000 00:57:38 -0500
Razor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Old programmers never die, they become obsolete and decompile.
Or when they die, you bury them 9-edge down. Of course this probably makes no
sense to anybody who started in the 80's or later (ie, after 80 column
hollerith cards were no longer the normal tool you programmed with).
--
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc.
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax: +1 978-692-4482
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:03:06 -0800
"Raffael Cavallaro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <WDMM5.2797$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >So you're saying that if someone said "I've managed to plant a time bomb
> >somewhere in the <insert distribution here> source code" You'd be able
> >to find it in a timely, reasonable manor? ROFL...
>
> You can tell bad rhetoric, because it always starts:
>
> "So you're saying..."
>
> and proceeds to say something completely different than what it pretends
> to respond to.
>
> Here's what I _am_ saying, and which you can't deny, and which even
> Windows2000 Magazine, a publication completely beholden to Microsoft,
> says:
>
> Users will never be able to review Microsoft code. Users _can_ (and do)
> review Linux and other open source code.
I don't believe that happens at all.
I look at the security advisories on each Linux site, and it's hole after
hole after hole that allows root access.
Linux = The Swiss Cheese of Operating Systems.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chad Meyers: Blatent liar
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 05 Nov 2000 23:03:13 -0700
"Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If it lets you break root so easily -- and I can't believe how many such
> exploits are possible on Linux -- it is a trojan.
We entered a default "server" RedHat 6.2 box into CTF at Defcon this
year, with the latest errata.
Nobody broke it.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Plato <|@|.|>
Crossposted-To:
alt.life.internet,alt.obituaries,alt.society.funerary,alt.windows98,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.society.futures,gnu.misc.discuss,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: what happens when an old programmer dies?
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:04:20 -0500
Michael Meissner wrote:
>
> > Old programmers never die, they become obsolete and decompile.
Or they buy a houseboat in New Orleans.....
--
http://www.bootdisk.com/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The BEST ADVICE GIVEN.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 05 Nov 2000 23:20:44 -0700
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[snip about OutLook]
> No, it tells you how stupid they are.
> When you try to open an attachment
> Here is the message outlook gives you:
>
> "Opening:
> <filename>
> ___
> Some files can contain viruses or otherwise be harmful to your computer. It
> is important to to be certain that this file is from a trustwhorty source.
>
> What do you want to do with the file?
>
> [] Open it.
> [*] (default) Save it to disk.
>
> [*] (default) always ask me about this file type?
>
> [okay] [cancel]"
>
> If the user is incapable of reading two sentences of very easy-to-understand
> english, what can you expect Outlook to do? Ignore the user and refuse to do
> anything with the file?
If the message comes from their boss, who also uses OutLook and has
the LoveLetter virus -- would you say that "this file is from a
trustworthy source"? I would. I also have written a wrapper for our
mailserver that flat-out refuses to deliver any attachment that uses
VBS.
We wouldn't have any of these problems if proprietary corporations
didn't write their software to "integrate" with their insecure binary
loader system. Could you imagine HTTP as invented by Microsoft? It
would be an "active" stream of ia32 assembly at best, and compiled code
at worst (see "Active X"). The "client", known as Windows, would just
JMP right into the e-mail message.
People should communicate with data and not programs. You should not
need to "launch an attachment" unless you:
o are expecting some sort of collaborative work that is best described
in those terms
o requested a program be sent to you
Limiting executable content to downloads, in the traditional sense,
would get rid of all these problems. Instead, we have sites that are
mass-conveting their FTP servers into the HTTP side. Back in 1995,
you'd never find a binary loadable file on a webserver -- and webservers
contained readable mark-up data. Now a websever or an SMTP server
flings around every type of file know and we are seeing the results.
Thankfully, most UNIX mail programs still refuse to run any program
from within.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 05 Nov 2000 23:23:13 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029) writes:
> >And Doom on NeXTStep, and DOOM 3 will be developed on MacOS X.
> >Carmack is a NeXT fan more than a Linux fan. He also likes the MS IDE.
>
> John Caramack also wrote a NeXTSTEP Quake port. Dunno what happened to it
They wrote Quake *on* NeXT machines.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chad Meyers: Blatent liar
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:26:10 -0800
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> > I would like to correct the impression that the list I am referring to
is a
> > bug list. That list is even longer. No, the list I am referrring to is
the
> > list of security advisories. That list is very long and growing
everyday.
>
> Ok, I must be missing something. Where is this list of hundreds of
security
> advisories for Redhat 7.0?
>
> http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/rh7-errata-security.html
>
> lists a total of 10 security advisories.
In the 30 days RedHat 7.0 has been released.
There are many more for 6.2, 6.1 etc.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Jeffries)
Crossposted-To: comp.graphics.api.opengl,comp.os.linux.x,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: What a mess....
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 06:32:51 GMT
I have been trying to figure out what windowing setup to use to develop a
C++ and OpenGL application under Linux that will be portable to other
*nixs.
I am totally confused. There is Motif, GTK+, Qt, xwXwindows, FLTK, and
several others.
I have no idea any more how to evaluate what I need.
Is there any way out of this besides trying my application with each and
every window manager?
My career doesn't have that much time. I'm inclined to just give up and
use Motif, but by now I've heard lots of bad things about it, like the
difficulty of using it in an OO program....
Sigh....what do I do?
Ready to give up....
--J
------------------------------
From: Static66 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 06:36:32 GMT
On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 23:44:10 GMT, Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Loren Petrich wrote:
>> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Static66
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:19:04 GMT, Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > wrote:
>
>> > > > What makes something "criminal"?
>> > > Do I really need to explain our judicial process to you??
>> > > EXTORTION IS ILLEGAL AND THERFORE CRIMINAL.
>> > In effect, contrary to government regulations.
>> And your point is?
>
> That demonization of "government regulations" is silly.
Tell that to a Jew who lived in Germany when hitler gained power..
>
>> Hint fucking hint: wanting government protection of rights (as defined
>> in the constitution) does NOT imply a desire for socialism, which
>> ends up ALWAYS being implemented by a kleptocracy (see: Russia, China,
>> Sweden, UK, Canada, and every other place where having everying provided
>> for you means first having everything stolen from you).
>
> Ah yes. That dirty word, "socialism".
>
> And taxation is specified by law, meaning that, by definition, it is
>not theft.
AHH yes more of Lorens flawed logic. "it is the law therefore it must
be just and right!"
I could quote you a thousand proofs otherwise.
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wall St dislikes LNUX?
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:44:10 +1300
Investers who are complete half witts who believe that money will roll in
the first day they open the doors, the type of investor that pulls out
because of one bad quarter, bitches and moans that they missed out on the
stock rise the following month due to a upturn in sales. These are two
reasons.
javaduke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What's up with the VA Linux stock price drop? Is it the numbers in the
> latest annual report or what?
>
> --
> Bruce R. Lewis http://brl.sourceforge.net/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jesper Krogh)
Subject: Re: What I dont like about Linux
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:14:43 +0100
> >This is a list of what I dislike about Linux, though easily solved and not too
> >big a deal.
> >
> >1) Netscape
> >The Netscape windows is *always* too tall, fixed easily.
> >
> >Well, there it is. Thats what i dont like.
>
> Really? For me, it always opens too small.
For me it always opens the same size as i closed it last time.
--
/Jesper Krogh
Student at DTU Denmark.
Homepage -> http://www.student.dtu.dk/~c991351
Feel the spirit of Linux -> http://www.sslug.dk
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: more stuff I wish linux did
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:01:05 +1300
Could you imagine a world where Windows didn't crash.....telecom operators couldn't
use the old excuse "the computer has just crashed" as a reason for typing
slow........banks would no longer use the excuse of a crashed computer as a reason
for misplacing your details (never happed to me as my bank uses AIX)......
javaduke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was using a windoze box just now and realized some more stuff I wish
> linux did:
>
> 1) I wish I had to download a 20MB web browser intensly hooked into my desktop
> in order to burn CD's. I don't use the thing, but I love having as much stuff
> on my system as possible. The more stuff that loads at system bootup, the more
> interesting things are.
>
> 2) I wish I could trash 2 CDRs because the OS forgot how to talk to the CD
> burner. I get bored when things always work.
>
> 3) and last of which, I really want to use software that won't write to a
> network drive (version 4.x of the adaptec cd-burner software) because they know
> better than me that a 2MB/s scsi-2 drive is *always* faster than 15MB/s ultra-2
> scsi drive on the other end of a 100mbps network. I'm so glad that windoze
> software writers know so much. I'm glad that they know that I couldn't possibly
> want to use my empty 3.3GB drive instead of a subdirectory of where the software
> was installed. It should require fifteen mouseclicks to over-ride doing that.
> Using the empty drive is *so* dangerous!
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.graphics.api.opengl,comp.os.linux.x,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: What a mess....
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:02:27 +1300
write the program in C then OOP it using qt (from troll tech)
javaduke
Jeff Jeffries wrote:
> I have been trying to figure out what windowing setup to use to develop a
> C++ and OpenGL application under Linux that will be portable to other
> *nixs.
>
> I am totally confused. There is Motif, GTK+, Qt, xwXwindows, FLTK, and
> several others.
>
> I have no idea any more how to evaluate what I need.
>
> Is there any way out of this besides trying my application with each and
> every window manager?
>
> My career doesn't have that much time. I'm inclined to just give up and
> use Motif, but by now I've heard lots of bad things about it, like the
> difficulty of using it in an OO program....
>
> Sigh....what do I do?
>
> Ready to give up....
>
> --J
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: If Microsoft Made Cars:
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:04:49 +1300
Fuck mate, I only posted it for shits and giggles, this isn't a religious war
you know.
javaduke
Gavin Cato wrote:
> Do you want to pull anything else out of your hat that we all heard years
> ago you twit?
>
> "javaduke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3a05d797$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > In an effort to express the accomplishments of Microsoft in understandable
> > terms, Bill Gates made the following comparison with General Motors
> products:
> > He said, "If automotive technology had kept pace with computer technology
> > over the past few decades, you would now be driving a V-32 instead of a
> V-8,
> > and it would have a top speed of 10,000 miles/hour (160,000 km/hr). Or you
> > could have an economy car that weighs 30 pounds (14 kilos) and gets a
> thousand
> > miles to the gallon of gas. In either case, the sticker of the new car
> would
> > be less than $50.00." End of statement. GM responded by pointing out that
> > if GM built cars that operated like Microsoft products: You'd have a car
> > that crashes 4 times a day. Every time they repainted the lines on the
> road,
> > you'd have to buy a new car. Your car would constantly die on the freeway
> > for no reason, and you would just accept this as a normal part of
> operations
> > and drive on. Your car would also stop and fail to restart, and you'd have
> > to reinstall the engine. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this,
> > too. You could only have one person in the car at a time unless you bought
> > a Car95 or a CarNT. But then you'd have to buy more seats. (Macintosh
> would
> > make a car that was powered by the Sun, was twice as fast, twice as easy
> > to drive-but would only run on 5 percent of the roads. Macintosh car
> owners
> > could get expensive Microsoft upgrades to their cars, which would make
> their
> > cars run much slower.) To continue, the oil, engine, gas, and alternator
> > warning lights would all be combined into a single "General Auto
> Protection
> > Fault" warning light that, when lit, would oblige you to stop your car in
> > the middle of the highway and restart it. New seats would force everyone
> > to have the same size butt. If you were involved in a crash, you would
> never
> > be able to determine the real cause of the crash. Finally, the airbag
> system
> > would ask you to press an "Are you sure?" button before deploying.
> >
> >
> > http://www.zfree.co.nz
> >
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Definition of WIndows 95:
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:06:25 +1300
Windows still is funny. Upgraded from Linux (intel edition) to a lovely
new Ultra Sparc 5 Machine loaded with Solaris and Sun C++ Workshop
5.0....now thats computing in style.
Chris Applegate wrote:
> That was funny five years ago.
>
> CDA
------------------------------
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