Linux-Advocacy Digest #135, Volume #30 Thu, 9 Nov 00 06:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup (Giuliano Colla)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (Glitch)
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Weevil")
Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week....... (Greg Reynolds)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:01:15 GMT
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:8mjO5.124837$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/487061.asp?0nm=N13G
> > > >
> > > > "At online auctioneer eBay Inc., a major Sun customer, the memory
> problem
> > > > initially resulted in one to two big-system crashes every month, says
> > > > Maynard Webb, president of eBay Technologies."
> > >
> > > I can get better performance from an out-of-the-box NT.
> > >
> > > > "with Sun's fixes in place eBay can now go "months" without seeing a
> > > > problem. "
> > > >
> > > > Months?
> > >
> > > So much for "my machine is up for three decades and I only has to reboot
> for
> > > kernel updates."
> > >
> > > > "Sun's current servers lack sophisticated error-correction software
> that
> > > can
> > > > often catch such errors on the fly, and as a result can crash when
> they
> > > > occur. "
> > >
> > > Sound familiar?
> > >
> > > > "Sun initially required customers who reported the problem to sign a
> > > > nondisclosure agreement..."
> > >
> > > Sound familiar?
> > >
> > > > "Paul McGuckin, an analyst with Gartner Group who deals regularly with
> > > major
> > > > corporate customers, said that roughly 60 major Gartner clients have
> > > > reported problems with as many as several hundred Sun servers."
> > >
> > > Even linuxens admists that even MS fixes a problem if a lot of people
> > > complains about it.
> > >
> > > > A question for sleepy "Unix Engineer" Aaron. Did you or your company
> sign
> > > a
> > > > nondisclosure agreement to hide the fact that Sun boxes spontaneously
> > > crash?
> > >
> > > Of course not, you plug a unix box to the power, and it automatically
> reads
> > > your mind, configure itself according to your wishes, and make you
> coffee,
> > > all in the time ME boots.
> >
> > Give a look here, just for fun
> >
> >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.microsoft.com&find_
> site=GO
> >
> >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.bbc.co.uk&find_site
> =GO
> >
> > http://uptime.netcraft.com/today/top.avg.html
> >
> > Drawing conclusions is left as an exercise to readers.
> > An optional exercise is to compare knowledge of British Broadcasting
> > Corporation employees of Sun Solaris, with Microsoft's employees
> > knowledge of Windows system.
> >
> > Cheers.
>
> starbucks.com just did a 215 day stint between re-boots on their Win2k
> server. I've been using Windows 2000 server since February and it has never
> crashed. The IIs servers on Win2K arent getting re-booted due to crashing as
> far as I know. Show otherwise....
The topic was of Sun server crashing. You can't tell why a
site did reboot, but you may tell for certain that if it
didn't reboot it didn't' crash.
AFAIK there's only one service pack for Windows 2000 so one
wouldn't expect for a Win2k server more than one reboot due
to software upgrading.
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:04:48 GMT
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:n86du8.b6b.ln@gd2zzx...
> > In article <8ud0k7$mi4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.bbc.co.uk&find_site
> > > =GO
> > >
> > > BBC.co.uk being the X most views site in the world?
> >
> > I remember when first using netcraft to see what the bbc used
> > and it was Microsoft. Now it is Sun Solaris. Why did they change? :-)
>
> The love the excitement from spontaneously crashing Sun boxes.
How do you explain their uptime if spontaneous crashing
occurs so frequently?
No system I know of is perfect. Reliability is MTBF related.
If uptime is high, MTBF is high, therefore the crashing
problem must have a very low probability to occur.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:04:32 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:GHpO5.14251$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> If you really trust it, completely fill a large NTFS filesystem with
> tiny files. See if it ever the same afterwards. I suspect that may
> have happened some time or another. Most (but not all) unix
> filesystems consume directory space and slow down access
> in directories that have once had a huge number of files, but
> this goes away when you delete the directory and create a
> new one. I don't think NTFS works that way.
NTFS had a bug regarding large numbers of files (40 millions, I think.)
The bug was fixed.
AFAIK, it's the only (one of very few?) bug in NTFS.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:08:05 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:fiqO5.14316$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Another funny line coming from you. How many years has MS claimed
> to be enterprise ready without delivering?
Has it deliver it by now, in your opinion?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:08:50 +0200
"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Bruce Schuck wrote:
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:n86du8.b6b.ln@gd2zzx...
> > > In article <8ud0k7$mi4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.bbc.co.uk&find_site
> > > > =GO
> > > >
> > > > BBC.co.uk being the X most views site in the world?
> > >
> > > I remember when first using netcraft to see what the bbc used
> > > and it was Microsoft. Now it is Sun Solaris. Why did they change? :-)
> >
> > The love the excitement from spontaneously crashing Sun boxes.
>
> How do you explain their uptime if spontaneous crashing
> occurs so frequently?
> No system I know of is perfect. Reliability is MTBF related.
> If uptime is high, MTBF is high, therefore the crashing
> problem must have a very low probability to occur.
Tell this to ebay.com and the NDA that Sun had them sign.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:14:10 +0200
"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS/PL wrote:
> > starbucks.com just did a 215 day stint between re-boots on their Win2k
> > server. I've been using Windows 2000 server since February and it has
never
> > crashed. The IIs servers on Win2K arent getting re-booted due to
crashing as
> > far as I know. Show otherwise....
>
> The topic was of Sun server crashing. You can't tell why a
> site did reboot, but you may tell for certain that if it
> didn't reboot it didn't' crash.
> AFAIK there's only one service pack for Windows 2000 so one
> wouldn't expect for a Win2k server more than one reboot due
> to software upgrading.
To say it frankly, only an asshole waits for the service packs.
Sure, when it is out you install it, but you also need to keep track of MS
bullteians and hot fixes.
Remember that security hole hotfix that MS didn't apply to its server and
allow the hacker to get it?
You don't get it in a service pack, because SP2 has a long way to go yet.
You get it in as a nice little executable, and patch the security holes in
your system ASAP.
Waiting for the Service Pack mean that you are a *bad* admin, and should be
sent to stand in the corner.
Currently there are about 22 hot fixes for security holes or bugs in windows
2000.
Some of them are included in SP1, some aren't.
The one that used to hack into MS wasn't in SP1, btw.
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:20:32 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > > Of course not, you plug a unix box to the power, and it automatically
> reads
> > > your mind, configure itself according to your wishes, and make you
> coffee,
> > > all in the time ME boots.
> >
> > Give a look here, just for fun
> >
> >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.microsoft.com&find_
> site=GO
>
> Microsoft.com being the second most viewed site in the world.
> (What
>
> >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.bbc.co.uk&find_site
> =GO
>
> BBC.co.uk being the X most views site in the world?
>
> > http://uptime.netcraft.com/today/top.avg.html
> >
> > Drawing conclusions is left as an exercise to readers.
> > An optional exercise is to compare knowledge of British Broadcasting
> > Corporation employees of Sun Solaris, with Microsoft's employees
> > knowledge of Windows system.
>
> An optional exercise is to compare the load on British Broadcasting
> Corporation site on Microsoft.com site.
> I edited a list of the 100th most viewed sites in the world, microsoft was
> second, I don't think that bbc.co.uk was even on this list.
The topic was about Sun spontaneous crashing. There's no way
that I know of to avoid a reboot if a system crashes.
Therefore the uptime between reboots value gives an
indication of the frequency of the problem.
I used microsoft as a reference because one could assume
that it's the place where MS crapware is used at best,
with minimal reboots due to unskilled setup or usage.
No mention about workload. If I'm not wrong (Max could help
on this subject), a site should be designed in such a way as
to carry its normal workload.
Therefore different sites, carrying different workloads
should be comparable.
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:28:12 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Bruce Schuck wrote:
> > >
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:n86du8.b6b.ln@gd2zzx...
> > > > In article <8ud0k7$mi4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.bbc.co.uk&find_site
> > > > > =GO
> > > > >
> > > > > BBC.co.uk being the X most views site in the world?
> > > >
> > > > I remember when first using netcraft to see what the bbc used
> > > > and it was Microsoft. Now it is Sun Solaris. Why did they change? :-)
> > >
> > > The love the excitement from spontaneously crashing Sun boxes.
> >
> > How do you explain their uptime if spontaneous crashing
> > occurs so frequently?
> > No system I know of is perfect. Reliability is MTBF related.
> > If uptime is high, MTBF is high, therefore the crashing
> > problem must have a very low probability to occur.
>
> Tell this to ebay.com and the NDA that Sun had them sign.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=www.ebay.com
No comment!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:38:22 -0500
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
The Great Suprendo wrote:
>
> A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> >> What relevance does this have to the case in point - are you saying that
> >> people plumped for Windows95 rather than OS/2 because of advertising ? I
> >> don't think you're doing your argument any favours by going down that
> >> road.
> >
> >Yes, what is so strange about it?
>
> It sounds a bit like you're suggesting that issues other than the
> quality or features of the products in question influenced people's
> decisions to buy them.
That is the case with Windows. If people knew an OS is normally better
than Windows they wouldn't be so easy going about using it. They would
realize it isn't the best way to spend their money and wouldn't like the
fact it is preinstalled on their new PC.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:34:46 +0200
"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > Tell this to ebay.com and the NDA that Sun had them sign.
>
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=www.ebay.com
Downtime of ebay while using solaris?
Downtime of ebay while using win2k?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:39:56 +0200
"Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> The Great Suprendo wrote:
> >
> > A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> > >> What relevance does this have to the case in point - are you saying
that
> > >> people plumped for Windows95 rather than OS/2 because of advertising
? I
> > >> don't think you're doing your argument any favours by going down that
> > >> road.
> > >
> > >Yes, what is so strange about it?
> >
> > It sounds a bit like you're suggesting that issues other than the
> > quality or features of the products in question influenced people's
> > decisions to buy them.
>
> That is the case with Windows. If people knew an OS is normally better
> than Windows they wouldn't be so easy going about using it. They would
> realize it isn't the best way to spend their money and wouldn't like the
> fact it is preinstalled on their new PC.
I disagree, no other OS, except maybe the Mac, which was very costly in the
time span we are talking about, came even close to Windows GUI in comfort
and ease of use.
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 04:53:50 -0600
Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8uc62l$ckb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> >
> > >Their problem.
> > >As far as I understand, MS marketing was the one who won the OS/2 vs
> Win*.
> > >IBM can certainly pay for a good PR, they didn't, they lost. Whose
> problem
> > >is that?
> >
> > Well suppose Microsoft were to produce an operating system that was
> > designed to compete with AIX on an RS/6000. Who do you think would win
> > the "PR" war then ?
> >
> > IBM is a mainframe/high end server company. It sort of fell into the
> > mass small computer market by accident. It expertise still lies with the
> > big machines, which is why it still assembles are the fastest machines
> > available in the world. It went for a gamble on a desktop server OS and
> > lost it. It has other things to think about.
>
> High end server/main frames are not a place for PR, you know.
> I know very few places where you can support your arguement for buying the
> 10,000,000 machine because "it looked cool in the ad"
>
Any place where money changes hands (legally, that is) is a place for PR.
The PR strategy for IBM's supercomputers was one I happened to follow very
closely. They hired a brilliant graduate student, gave him a 5 million
dollar (or so) budget, and told him to develop a machine that could defeat
the World Chess Champion, Garri Kasparov. Thus, 'Deep Blue' was born.
Actually, it grew out of 'Deep Thought', a machine the student had developed
in school over the years and already the strongest chess computer in
history.
Hsu 'ported' the whole thing to IBM's latest supercomputer hardware, spent a
few years refining, tuning, debugging, etc, and in the end, did what no
other computer had ever done -- it beat the human chess champion in a set
match.
For IBM, this was nothing but PR for its super-computer hardware.
jwb
------------------------------
From: Greg Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week.......
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:59:50 +0000
> They simply have to use their brains. If they dont have one, they
> should most certianly avoid linux as well as any other activity which
> could possibly lead to activation of grey matter.
You're falling into the classic techie trap of assuming that anyone who
doesn't get on with computers is a total idiot. Most people just want to
use a computer to do there work, and don't want or need to know how it
works. Until Linux can be as simple as 'turn it on, and it works' then
it'll be a toy for geeks with time on their hands (like me). I mean, it's
taken me days to ry and get a GUI IMAP mail client to work, and I still
haven't done it, because I need header files from a library that aren't in
the right place, then I can't get hold of other libraries I need, it's a
total nightmare. If I could do everything I need under Windows then I would.
Greg.
------------------------------
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