Linux-Advocacy Digest #144, Volume #30 Thu, 9 Nov 00 17:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: NT administrator prefers linux (DTZ)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: KDE2 (Mig)
Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux + KDE2 = 8) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: RedHat BugList Summary (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: OS stability (Jesper Krogh)
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DTZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT administrator prefers linux
Date: 09 Nov 2000 22:13:05 +0100
ron fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> with their focus on GUI bloatware. I can't tell you the number of times
> we've had mission critical NT servers lock up do to an RPC error,
> multiple session disconnect or any of the myriad of awe shit problems
> you can only fix by powering off the machine because the GUI is dead.
We made the same experience with our 23 server oracle replicated
installation. We never managed to keep that system 100% up-and-running for
more than just a few days. Administering it remotely is a pain.
I know very few people you can go beyond the standard 3phase NT
problem solving strategy:
(1) klick around a whole lot
(2) reboot the machine
(3) reinstall NT
Maybe there are people out there who know NT well enough to provide
problem solutions that go beyond this, but I bet: it takes
considerably more time and effort to become that knowledgeable on NT
than becoming a decent unix administrator.
A few years ago if was hip to discuss the "total cost of ownership" of
a system. Also the word "open" was a buzzword. For some reason this
has changed.
> All the so-called windozeexperts that venture this list seem
> to be mostly gee-wiz gadget freak
Yeah, windows is great when you don't really need a computer. It is
also okay for my son to play games.
> The only
> boxes we have that have given us no problems after years of service are
> our linux boxes.
There are a couple of solaris boxes in our company that nobody really
knows where they are located. They are in heavy use, but only over the
network. Nobody ever needs to go there an push a button or whatever.
> see the overwhelming logic and maneagability of *NIX.. especially
> coupled with Perl.
You can get most of the unix tools for Windows, including bash and
perl and Windows becomes a lot more useful. There is an article
somewhere on the net titled "turning windows into something useful"
that give a lot of clues. But of course it is much better to use unix
in the first place.
> I can spend all day long working from a command
> prompt in *NIX and not get bored, its just so damned powerful!
Yeah especially with a VT100 over a 1200 baud modem line ;-)
Talking about which: we are currently running projects, that require
installations in Korea. We do have a modem connection there. The
system is NT. This will become excieting.
> If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
Nice ! I bet you also know this one 'NT isn't the answer, NT is the
question. The answer is "no"'
--
In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates ?
-- Martin
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:23:40 +0200
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Hebrew, mainly, arabic & russian too.
>
> As far as I can tell, Debian ships packages for at least Hebrew and
> Russian. What's the language code for Arabic?
>
> Let me know when windows 2k gets no_NY, which is what I need.
no_NY ?
It might, but my experiance with hebrew and linux don't like to mix
together. You can get hebrew on linux, it's just that I haven't yet found a
good hebrew support on linux.
I don't know about russian and arabic, as I've very nearly illeterate in
both langauges. I sometimes need to do things with them, though.
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:28:07 +0100
Donn Miller wrote:
> My analysis is that Konq. is not the most perfect web browser, but it is
> the
> most fun! Using the same window manager and web browser over and over is
> so boring, and it makes me least likely to Cerf the web.
Its certainly not perfect. Try to run the CSS testsuite and you'll see lots
of the errors it makes but it still beats IE5 with CSS - not sure about
IE5.5 though. Its actually amazing that so few people can produce such a
great product and im certain that it will have lots of improvements when
KDE 2.01 comes out
--
Cheers
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:35:46 -0500
A transfinite number of monkeys wrote:
>
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:58:48 GMT,
> Angular Turnip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Linux simply put is a piece of crap. I installed Mandrake 7.2 yesterday
> : on a generic home built system and I can't believe that anyone but a
> : real techie would switch from Windows just to run Linux.
>
> Hi Steve/Claire/whatever your real name is.. Good to see you've changed
> names again!
>
> : Why in the world does this
> : thing need a swap partition when I have 512 meg of memory? Must be one
> : heck of a memory pig.
>
> Just a point of fact - Windoze will *require* swap space, even with 512 MB
> of RAM. It's so a crashdump can be written to disk before the system
> checks out, in the event of a crash (which BTW is far more likely under
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "when it comes time to"
> Windoze)...
>
> --
> Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
> jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux + KDE2 = 8)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:39:17 +0000
Les Mikesell wrote:
> Are you internet-challenged? It is no longer new enough to have
> a problem getting to the servers.
I certainly am. Do you expect me to download a Gbyte with a 56K modem? I
bought my two CD's from the Linux Emporium (see
http://www.linux-emporium.co.uk). It cost me £5.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:36:29 -0500
"Clifford W. Racz" wrote:
>
> "A transfinite number of monkeys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Just a point of fact - Windoze will *require* swap space, even with 512 MB
> > of RAM. It's so a crashdump can be written to disk before the system
> > checks out, in the event of a crash (which BTW is far more likely under
> > Windoze)...
> >
> > --
> > Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
> > jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
> > Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
>
> I have yet to, in 9 months of daily usage, have Windows 2000 lockup once.
> But Linux never locked up either, once i got it running.
>
> My Windows 2000 disk cost me $5. Took me 2 hours to set up. Since I get
> paid (as a contractor so i work as little or as much as I choose) $20 an
> hour; I figure Win2000 cost me a total of $45 to get running. In contrast,
> Linux has cost me an estimated $1000 and netted me very little in return. I
You must be an idiot.
> don't care who Claire is...
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:36:41 +0200
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > In essence, they're still clinging to an 1970's 8-bit 8080's machine
> >
> > You *really* need to update your knowledge, Aaron.
> > Unix still has buffer overflow problem.
> > No computer could be remotedly administer in the 50s.
>
> I never said that remote administration was possible in the 1950's.
you said that computers could be remotedly administer 50 years ago.
I was assuming that you didn't assume that you overslept and woke into 2020,
so it's 1950.
> However, how long did it take Microsoft to implement printer spooling,
> something that was industry standard in the 1950's? Not until 1995.
Who told you that? You can do that on a win3.x
> Why is that?
Because you are clueless?
> > Windows 95 and upward can actually handle alternative applications per
file
> > type.
>
> And your point is?
That you make a big fuss about it lacking it.
> Unix NEVER had this problem to begin with.
Unix doesn't even has this option.
> > Windows 2000 can be remotedly administer.
>
> ONLY if you pay extra money.
Nope.
> Unix has had this capability since the very beginning of Unix
networking...
> EVEN allowing remote administration from NON-UNIX machines.
They've to, those are tha majority.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: RedHat BugList Summary
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:46:34 GMT
On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:20:06 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
|"Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
|news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
|> On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:43:32 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|wrote:
|> |
|> |"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
|> |news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
|> |> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|> |>
|> |> > Can you please list the number of known security bugs in a linux
|> |> > distribution of your choice that has been out in the open for nearly
|> |> > as long as win2k?
|> |>
|> |> As far as I can tell, Debian has zero security bugs for 2.2.
|> |>
|> |> Among the six security issues the last month, I guess two (nis and
|> |> traceroute) would be said to apply to the OS and not applications.
|> |
|> |What I can't understand is, in this day, Year 2000, there are _STILL_
|> |bugs being discovered in traceroute, ping, etc. These utilities, and
|> |apps like NIS have been around forever.
|> |
|> |I can't find one recorded instance of a bug with any of MS's base TCP/IP
|> |utilities (ping, tracert, etc). I mean, come on, this is getting rediculous.
|>
|>
|> Remember the "Ping of Death"? MS's ping utility could generate
|> these (non-standard sized) packets from the command line.
|
|I don't remember this. I remember the only way to do it was with
|"WinNuke" on the Windows side and there were several utilities on the
|*nix side.
|
|> Other OS's needed fancy, contorted programs to generate these packets.
|>
|> Remote DOS attacks from the MS standard ping utility. I think that counts.
|
|I think you're mistaken.
>From http://www.insecure.org/sploits/ping-o-death.html
2. How to test if you're vulnerable
Unfortunately, this bug is really easy to exploit. Users are already
trying it out "just to see if it worked". So, to test if your machine
is in danger, find a Windows '95 or NT box (3.51 or 4), and run the
following command:
ping -l 65510 your.host.ip.address
The message on the '95 box will be "Request Timed Out". This means that
the ping wasn't answered, either because the machine is ignoring you
(and rightly so if you're going to send it invalid packets), or because
it's dead. It's that simple...
I don't have access to one of the affected boxes to test this.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jesper Krogh)
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:36:34 +0100
On 09 Nov 2000 21:01:52 GMT, JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> at www.uptime.net the longest uptime is somewhere around 1500 days
Hmmm, I checked that one out and i get this:
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default
driver specified
/Systems/default.asp, line 30
--
/Jesper Krogh
Student at DTU Denmark.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:39:35 +0200
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Why anyone would want anything other than Win2k pro on their desktop
or
> > > > laptop is beyond me ...
> > >
> > > Why anyone would want to contribute to Microsofts domination of the
world
> > > is beyond me.
> >
> > Why would someone care who make the application as long as it works, is
> > beyond me.
>
> Lack of choices, and Abuse of power isn't a concern to you?
>
> Maybe you should move to move to North Korea. It sounds ideal for you.
I've all the choice that I could care for.
And the abuse of power happened a long way from here.
------------------------------
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