Linux-Advocacy Digest #178, Volume #30 Sat, 11 Nov 00 12:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true (mlw)
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: OS stability ("Mike")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: Aaron R. Kulkis - Who is this guy? ("Mike")
Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!) (sfcybear)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Clifford W. Racz")
Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!) (sfcybear)
Re: Another Silent Computer :( ("kosh")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Is Lame. Sorry but it is true
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:03:01 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> "Clifford W. Racz" wrote:
> >
> > > Why are you unable to make any money with Unix skills? Especially
> > > in this market...where the market rate for Unix administration is
> > > 2x to 3x that of Windows...
> > /*
> > */
> > > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > > Unix Systems Engineer
> > > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> > Who said I was a programmer?
>
> Not me. Is there a ghost in here?
>
> > Are all contractors programmers?
>
> Hell no. I do systems engineering and systems administration as
> a contractor.
>
> checke out
>
> http://www.monster.com
> http://www.dice.com
>
> > I think not.
>
> sorry, didn't notice that you were posting from Purdue.
>
> Purdue is overflowing with Unix-skilled people, and thus, the
> local market value of such skills is nil.
>
> Go up to Chicago, and basic Unix admin skills are worth about $20/hour
> at the very least.
Come to the Boston area, a good UNIX guy can get $150 an hour. $450 an
hour if you are an Oracle guru too.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:22:06 GMT
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:36:17 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:10:41 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What happens if you redirect to a printer?
>> >>
>> >> claire
>> >
>> >LOL!
>> >
>> >Time to wheel out the 3000rpm drum printer to proove linux is faster.
>>
>> Nah. Time to wheel out the windoze printer struggling w/ a ghz processor
>> because although the designer thought to use the CPU to save costs, said
>> designer failed to realize that windoze can't walk and chew gum at the same
>> time.
>
>my PC can't load ICQ and Yahoo Messenger at the same time w/o Messenger
>going down. Using 98 of course.
I recently tried IE 5.5 under vmware to try to download some ninentendo games.
What an abomination! At one point I had 12 pop up advertisements on the
screen; They were poping up at 1 minute intervals. I'm glad I had the ability
to close the session, discard the disk changes and treat the whole affair
like a bad memory.
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:10:36 -0800
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Glitch wrote:
>
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:8uhk0h$kk7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > In using Windows, there is a downside... like this for example.
> > > >
> > > > Dealing With OS Decay: Rebuilding Your Windows System from Scratch
> > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2531288,00.html
> > > >
> > > > I really don't think Linux has this problem, does it?
> > >
> > > Linux has one big advantage, those who use it knows what they are
doing.
> > > I've a computer which *still* has the original OEM of win95, I bought
it
> > > several months after win95 was out. (early 96, I think)
> > > It's in a working condition, BTW.
> > > It's doing its works (word processing and some emails now & then at
the
> > > moment, before, it was used as a home computer, which include games,
> > > installing & uninstalling all kind of programs, the normal stuff)
> > > I don't plan to reinstall windows on it again, in the case of a total
> > > failure, it's going to be linux, but I don't expect any problems with
it, as
> > > it is the most well-behaved computer that I've seen.
> > >
> > > I don't know how long a linux box would be able to survive if clueless
> > > people (with root access) would start fiddling with it.
> > >
> >
> > at least Linux provides the capability for protection. No such
> > protection exists under Windows. Any user can delete files, any files.
>
> I'm so sorry. You are wrong. When you compare nix to win you gotta
compare lin
> to nt4 or w2k. Both have secure journaling file systems. lin does not
unless you
> are a programmer level user and build reiserfs and edit numerous crypyic
config
> code to enable it.
PLUS: Windows Me has System File Protection. You can't delete or overwrite a
system file accidently.
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:11:15 -0800
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:bl6P5.18721$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > at least Linux provides the capability for protection. No such
> > > protection exists under Windows. Any user can delete files, any files.
> >
> > I'm so sorry. You are wrong. When you compare nix to win you gotta
> compare lin
> > to nt4 or w2k. Both have secure journaling file systems.
>
> I thought they only journal the metadata, not the file contents.
Yes they journal the file contents.
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:14:23 -0800
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:uK5P5.18648$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8S4P5.125339$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > > I've said it over and over. The mailer should know the MIME types
> > > that it can display safely and either have the corresponding code
> > > internally or a list of programs that are safe.
> >
> > Outlook has a security fix that does just that.
>
> And long overdue.
>
> > Now that thats out of the way, when will Linux stop allowing root
exploits
> > so easily?
>
> Only if you memorize all the icons and logos for all the programs
> you find at freshmeat.net.
As I suspected. Linux root exploits forever!
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:13:36 GMT
"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8uhm09$j5g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <h0XO5.7562$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8uhahg$8oc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > But are these numbers meaningful? It seems to me that what you're
> > > really
> > > > interested in is unexpected downtime,
> > >
> > > This is where you are VERY wrong! Down time even scheduled down time
> is
> > > costly. The more I can get away from down time scheduled or
> otherwise
> > > the better.
> >
> > Downtime is costly, but unscheduled downtime is disasterous.
> >
> > Sorry, but I would *MUCH* rather take a server down for regular
> *HARDWARE*
> > maintenance every so often, than risk a spontaneous failure, which
> will
> > leave my site unavailable and losses of data since the last backup.
>
>
> Of course you would, you run MS software. I would want to do the same if
> I ran that crap. I don't I run Unix or linux which is more robust and
> does not crash with every minor harware clitch the way MS does!
Huh? I'm not talking about _any_ MS software here, nor am I talking about
X86 hardware. Our servers are purchased from a large, well established
vendor. They all run a respected version of Unix. One of our primary
concerns is reliability, of both hardware and software.
Scheduled downtime is something we can set up a specific time for. It's
often done in the evening or on a weekend, so that it doesn't impact users.
In an engineering organization, this cost is minimal. We can replace
hardware components and upgrade operating systems and software in a
controlled, well-planned manner.
Unexpected downtime, on the other hand, is a disaster. We have support from
the vendor, and we are located in a large metropolitan area, so response
time is a few hours, and repairs can usually be effected within a few hours
of the support team arriving. By that time, though, we may well have lost th
e better part of a day, in addition to the work in progress. The goal during
unexpected downtime is to get the machines back online as fast as possible.
The reason that most organizations perform routine maintenaince, and do such
things as replace disk drives while they're still working fine, is that the
probability of failure is in most cases an exponential function of time.
This means that the probability of a given hardware component failing
increases 7X for every 2X increase in time. To keep failure levels below an
acceptable threshold, hardware is upgraded, checked, or replaced on a
regular basis.
Contrary to your assertion, we have found that hardware failures generally
cause computer systems to stop. At that point, NT, DOS, Unix and Linux are
all equally reliable.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:16:08 -0800
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Bruce Schuck wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Jake Taense wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Aaron - I'm curious. You claim to be a "UNIX Systems Engineer".
> > > >
> > > > What engineering degree do you possess? Are you, in fact, an
engineer?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I attended Purdue University where I studied Computer Systems
Engineering,
> > > taking 20 credit hours of calculus and differential equations
> > > 10 credit hours of physics
> > > 10 credit hours of chemistry
> > > and about 70 credit hours of electrical engineering.
> >
> > You were asleep. We can tell.
>
> And since sleep leads to dreaming, and dreaming is a trance state...
> and information presented while in a trance state is absorbed,
> retained, and incoroporated into one's knowledge BETTER than when
> not in a trance state.......this would be a good thing.
However, if you slept through the change in classes, and the next class has
nothing to do with "Engineering", that would explain your situation.
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron R. Kulkis - Who is this guy?
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:24:16 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I studied Computer Systems Engineering at Purdue University,
approximately
> > > 60 credit hours of Computer and Electrical Engineering, and another
> > > 20 credit hours of Computer Science.
> >
> > Well this settles it. He is a plumber. No wonder he can't follow
> > simple usenet netiquette. He's an embarassment that just won't go
>
> I have fulfilled or surpassed all of the core requirements for an
> engineering degree. I'm a couple hours short in humanities electives.
Hmmm, I think I'll add that to my list.
A few slices short of a loaf...
A few beers short of a six-pack...
A few sandwiches short of a picnic...
A few cards short of a deck...
and now,
A few hours short of a degree...
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:44:16 GMT
In article <8uglha$4dm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8ufemj$pq4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > > Ummm, do you understand statistics are all????
> > >
> > > Not in english, no.
> > >
> >
> > ???? Statistics are mathmatic.
>
> Terms are in english, which I've failed to successfully translate to
the
> terms which I can understand.
>
> > > > Nope, MS isn't even in the top 50! Infact MS W2K is about 245
days
> > > > BEHIND number 50 on the list! And the best Uptime NT/windows98
> > > > www.microsoft.com reports is a stunning 28 days! Yeah, you can
pay
> > > > hundreds of dollars on the most popular, I'll take the the best
for
> > > > free! WOW, Sounds like you following the lemmings to bankrupcy!
> > >
> > > MS OS currently run 31 of the 100 most popular webpages.
> > > Microsoft.com, btw, is the second most popular one.
> > > Draw your own conclustions.
> > >
> >
> > How did you determine this????? What method did you use to poll ALL
the
> > sites on the web (the only way you can find what the "most popular
> > sites" are) If you are using the counter numbers, the best you can
say
> > is MS OS runs on 31 of the 100 most popular the counter's customer
> > pages.
>
> 100hot.com
Based on an untested statistical model and the surfing habits of 100,000
people and the REFUSE to disclose HOW they selected these people! If
Unix and Linux users are UNDER REPRESENTED then sites that appeal to
those users are UNDER REPRESENTED. The ONLY thing they count is home
directory pages and NOT the over all use of the site! I book MANY sites
pages that I use so I do NOT have to go though the home page! From what
I can see their methodology is FLAWD! Hardly what I would call a
reliable source!
We here in the United States are now VERY aware of how hard it is to get
and ACCURATE count from a LARGE number of people and this is when they
go in and mark a ballot and TELL the world what they wanted!!!! The
Statistical polls based on small samples ( the method hot100 used) were
WRONG as seen by the results of our presidential election Exit polling.
Small samples to predict what the overall population was going to do
were WRONG! The predictions from the state of Florida PROVE that! And
these modles have been tested over and over again against the REAL
results! hot100 has NO way to test the validity of their statistical
modle nor to they provide HOW they got their sample. Does it represent a
cross sample of internet users that is REQUIRED to make SUCCESSFUL
predictions of the OVER ALL internet use? That is completely UNKNOWN.
And they do NOT give any information that is REQUIRED for statistical
evaluation (not even something as simple as the standard deviation).
Please take a STATISTICS class and a reputable collage!
> & netcraft.com
Which is proving that Linux and Unix are a better OS Than the best MS
has to offer!
>
> It's all in the post that started this.
>
> > MS OS running on 31 of the 100 most popular site means that 69 of
the
> > top 100 are running something else! Probably Unix!
>
> No, 20 run linux.
I said Unix! I guess you can not read! 68 - 20 = 48% (no estimates taht
I have seen show Unix with LESS that 31%) That means Unix is the MOST
popular server OS representing about 1/2 of all the servers! combine the
UNIX like Linux and about 2/3 of the servers are Unix/Linux and MS is
not even 1/2 that amount!
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:45:15 -0500
"Clifford W. Racz" wrote:
> From: "Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Newsgroups:
>
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.adv
> ocacy
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 1:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
>> What do I care? It is a home system. Only I, my wife and my son use it.
>> But, in any case, Win2000 does have protection.
>so u are saying that your wife and son don't do stupid things sometimes
>and delete files they shouldnt, or even accidentally before they can
>catch themselves? If its a system file 95 and 98 will go right ahead and
>delete it for you , of course with 2k u have that protection. Its
>provided with linux and its cheaper and uses your system more
>efficiently than 2k.
Yes, but Linux does not run Blue's Clues ABCs, Tonka Truck Construction,
Disney Animated Toy Story Storybook, Jenny Craig Cookbook, HP Printable
Expressions, Halmark Card Studio, PC Study Bible, ...
These are what babysit my son when he is getting rowdy and keep my wife
happy. If WINE could handle this stuff, I would run to Linux! But, as it
stands, it isn't worth it.
I have seent hat program (forgot the name) that can run multiple OSs
simultaneously. That, I would consider, but it is $100 plus I would have to
buy more RAM I figure. So, it isn't a cheap/free option either.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:51:14 GMT
Your original post claimed that we can ALL agree to the validity of your
sources. This is NOT the case. So far there as only been DISAGREEMENT
about the validity of your sources. This means that you have also made
INVALID assumptions. These invalid assumtions also cast doubt on your
conclutions.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "kosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Silent Computer :(
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:57:07 +0700
In article <3a0cf388$0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "James"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "kosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uilij$8c7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Javaduke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Running SuSE 7.0, simply turn off PNP OS in the bios and everything
>> > should be sweet, I have my soundcard up and running in now time.
>> > This solution should work for most distro's.
>> >
>> > javaduke
>>
>>
>> Actually I do that with every os now. It seems to make things work
>> better under any os.
>
> I really don't think this [BIOS] policy is advisable for a dual boot
> Win2k / Linux system - or is it?
>
Actually it works just fine with W2K also. What it does is force the bios
to init all devices and just tell the OS where they are. The bios is
almost always better at PnP then the OS is. So I let the bios do what it
does best and let the OS do what it does best. Honestly it seems to make
things a little faster and it is a little more stable also. The speed is
mainly in boot up time.
>> On mandrake 7.1 and above a sblive is detected automatically. I am not
>> sure why some people have so many problems. I have helped at least a
>> hundred people now install mandrake on their systems. I have never seen
>> problems like what claire and others here are reporting.
>
>
------------------------------
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