Linux-Advocacy Digest #191, Volume #30 Sun, 12 Nov 00 13:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: NT/2000 true multiuser? (The Great Suprendo)
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Christopher Smith")
Re: Can you love a platform without being a bigot? ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!) ("Ayende
Rahien")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: The Great Suprendo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT/2000 true multiuser?
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:46:22 +0000
A certain Russ Lyttle, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>> This is a capability that Citrix Metaframe has - "seamless window"
>> applications. That's where the window looks as though it is running on
>> your own desktop, ie you don't get a second desktop. This can be very
>> useful indeed - you can migrate a set of applications to terminal server
>> without your users being aware of it, retrained or whatever.
>
>Believe me, users are very much aware of the migration. All the friggin
>shortcuts broke is the usual symption. Also the friggin terminal server
>version is never quiet the same as the old version, it runs much slower,
>and dies everytime the network gets heavy usage. We stupid users never
>have any idea whether our problems are something we did, something in
>the OS, or someone is migrating applications without our being aware.
"stupid users" (ie non-IT people) generally aren't aware of seamless
window applications being updated - if it's done right. Admittedly it is
quite a feat to pull off without there being problems, but I have seen
it done.
>OK, end rant. I just had to spend 1 hour doing my on-line time card
>because the system administrators silently migrated the application.
Admins who are professional about it will usually warn the users. The
users usually ignore the warning.
--
ROAR UP MY TWAT!!!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:49:54 GMT
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:30:44 +0000, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Try reading a 100k log file that Windows created when it booted, esp. if
>you're trying to work out why it didn't work. Notepad will refer you to
>WordPad.
And it does so automatically with no intervention from the user.
>> I still don't know what needs to be Administered on a home system?
>> Dfrag/scandisk/recoverydisk/add an ip address/change the dialup phone
>> number...All trivial to do without any real admin tools.
>
>fdisk?
What's so hard about that?
It's included. We were talking about what Admin tools are needed that
are not included.
>Is that available as a GUI tool on Windows 95/98/ME? It is on NT/Win2k, but
>not those others.
>
>If you add a disk, aren't you doing administration?
fdisk is included.
>If you add hardware, ...
Plug and play or USB trivial under recent versions of Windows. A
nightmare under any version of Linux.
>
>I'm still trying it out. So far nothing particularly serious.
I liked Mandrake 7.0 / 7.1 but after using it for several weeks I
found that the ordinary tasks I do under Windows are more of a pain in
the ass with Linux for me. As an example reading news. I had to set up
4 different programs (leafnode, slrn and the editor and spell checker)
then I had to fire off leafnode to retrieve messages. If I wanted to
go back a day or 2 in a group to check something I had to play with
config files. Read one group while another was downloading? Change the
colors, same thing. Attachments are another mixed bag along with html.
It's a real pain in the ass. I tried pan but could not get it working
on my system as it kept freezing on me. Printing was another problem.
I was stuck with a monochrome printer. I didn't like the way the
screen fonts looked even with ttfonts running. The permissions thing
was another pain, su'ing to root all the time to do things is just
extra steps. My scanner didn't work. My wheel mouse half worked in
that the wheel worked but you had to click on the window first where
as under Windows it hovers and knows what window you want to scroll.
Also how do I assign functions to the other 4 buttons? Trivial under
Windows.
I know there are valid reasons and work a round's for most of these
problems, but to me it's not worth it. I'm not the type that wants to
set up cron jobs to do all my fetching at night etc. I tend to jump
around in programs and under Windows my News reader picks up right
where it left off. One click and I can look at past messages in one
group while downloading current ones in another. it's very easy and
user friendly.
Finally I realized that I was spending too much time fiddling with
Linux to customize to work as easily as Windows does for me and that
is why I dumped it.
If you can perform all of your functions as easily under Linux as you
can under Windows then by all means use it. For me it wasn't even
close.
claire
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 03:03:29 +1000
"Curtis" <alliem@kas*spam*net.com> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Christopher Smith wrote...
> > > But what if the icon is generic or an unknown? Also, a lot of
executables
> > > come with their own icons.
> >
> > If it's generic or unknown, then it won't be run by VBScript (unless
someone
> > has redefined the icons and/or filetypes). If it's an executable with
its
> > own icon then that is no different to have .exe on the end of the
filename.
>
> Hmmm. Seemingly workable. :-) However, I still feel that it's a system
> that fosters ignorance on the part of the user.
Any system that is to be used by the majority has to do this.
> Files are often
> identified by their extensions on a day to day basis in text documents
> and written conversation.
Depends on the environment.
> If they are left there, the user will become
> accustomed to their presence and what they mean.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Can you love a platform without being a bigot?
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:12:44 +0200
"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:NC8P5.102877$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Not exactly. Try substituting Apple for A, Fruit for B, and Cherry for C,
> and you'll be able to see your mistake more easily:
>
> All Apples (A) are Fruits (B);
> A Cherry (C) is a Fruit (B);
> Therefore, an Apple (A) is a Cherry (C).
>
> From the two premises (all A's are B's; C is a B), it is not possible to
> infer any relationship between A and C except that they are both members
of
> the set B, which is not a conclusion at all, of course, since it is a
direct
> restatement of the premises. In other words, no information can be
deduced
> from the premises beyond what is already stated.
Thanks for the logical lesson.
> Probably what you and the other Winvocate were trying to say was something
> like:
I was trying to make a lame joke, nothing to do with windows or microsoft at
all.
> All A's are B's;
> All B's are C's;
> Therefore, all A's are C's.
>
> But I can see how you've become accustomed to drawing invalid conclusions,
> what with having to come up with pro-Microsoft arguments and all. :)
LOL.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:41:28 +0200
"Stefan Ohlsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >>Nothing that is reliable. The lack of reliable sources does not make the
> >>counter reliable
> >So when you've at tracking device installed on a lot of the webpages, in
> >fact, it's the most installed tracking device that I'm currently aware
of,
> >you say it's invalid, and do not propuse any other way to get it?
> >Please note that I couldn't care less about the number themselves (and
said
> >so in the original post) it's the precentage that interest me.
> >
> The problem is that different sites are visited by a different audience.
> The problem is also that we, as investigators, don't have any control
> whatsoever of what sites are used in the measurement. There is no
guarantee
> that the sample is not biased.
> To give one example from each end; How many Linux users visit
microsoft.com
> and how many Windows users visit debian.org? How many are repeat vistors
and
> how many isn't? I maintain a website using an Amiga, and the statistics
> for the Amiga is _severely_ biased by my checking up on the site.
>
> Thecounter is not totally useless though, it can give an indication or a
rough
> estimate of things.
Yes, I know.
That is what I choose the largest countercompany, because the reason it's so
wide spread (and mostly in non-corporate sites) will help balancing out the
results.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:22:00 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:QOgP5.18758$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uj0kg$viv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > at least Linux provides the capability for protection. No such
> > > protection exists under Windows. Any user can delete files, any files.
> >
> > Windows, in that regard, can allow much tighter control than linux.
> > Check NTFS first.
> >
>
> I think you mean 'more arbitrary' control, not tighter. Linux makes
> you map permissions into 3 sets which turn out to match most
> real-world situations very well.
Explain what you mean by this.
By talking about tighter control I'm talking about the ability to grant
different file permissions to individuals or groups to much higher degree
than I can on linux.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:23:38 +0200
"Clifford W. Racz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ujt27$igg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> "Clifford W. Racz" wrote:
> > From: "Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Newsgroups:
> >
>
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.adv
> > ocacy
> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 1:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
>
> >> What do I care? It is a home system. Only I, my wife and my son use
it.
> >> But, in any case, Win2000 does have protection.
>
> >so u are saying that your wife and son don't do stupid things sometimes
> >and delete files they shouldnt, or even accidentally before they can
> >catch themselves? If its a system file 95 and 98 will go right ahead and
> >delete it for you , of course with 2k u have that protection. Its
> >provided with linux and its cheaper and uses your system more
> >efficiently than 2k.
>
> Yes, but Linux does not run Blue's Clues ABCs, Tonka Truck Construction,
> Disney Animated Toy Story Storybook, Jenny Craig Cookbook, HP Printable
> Expressions, Halmark Card Studio, PC Study Bible, ...
>
> These are what babysit my son when he is getting rowdy and keep my wife
> happy. If WINE could handle this stuff, I would run to Linux! But, as it
> stands, it isn't worth it.
WINE can't handle notepad to perfection, you expect it to do more complex
things?
> I have seent hat program (forgot the name) that can run multiple OSs
> simultaneously. That, I would consider, but it is $100 plus I would have
to
> buy more RAM I figure. So, it isn't a cheap/free option either.
It's called VMware, I believe.
Allows you to run windows from linux or vice versa.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:30:50 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:FGhP5.18769$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uj15n$5i9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > No, I have no problem with letting the user choose to run anything
> > > he wants, as long as it is really his choice. For example if you
> > > want to type in the name of your program to run, or drag the
> > > attachment to a program on the desktop, go ahead. What needs
> > > to be disabled is the auto-executing something chosen by the
> > > sender instead.
> >
> > You click on the file, you get a message asking you what to do.
> > The sender has *no choice* in the matter.
> > *You* decide whatever you want to comply with the sender's choice, *not*
> > outlook.
> > You don't like the sender's choice, *change* it.
>
> In outlook express there are only 2 choices - open and save to file.
> Can I give out your phone number as the person to call for advice
> every time that warning pops up?
Right, you save it to a temp dir, and then choose a tool of your liking to
dissect it with.
Sorry, the saving is worse than opening is a clueless agruement, as they are
essensiatly the same.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:32:24 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:I4hP5.18760$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > BigA wrote:
> > >
> > > "the inherent problem that Microsoft maintained for all these
> > > years that you are unable to boot a recovery floppy or CD to
> > > go fix an NTFS problem."
> > >
> > > Guess you've never heard of the NT Emergency Recovery Disk?? I wonder,
> have
> > > you even used NT 4.0???
> >
> >
> > Is this something that stays at the top of your CD stack?
>
> Actually I have never seen one. When did it come out and where do you
> get them. Our office has people who have configured NT boxes for
> years and have had some training and they still install on a small FAT
> partition.
> In fact they just ran into trouble with a win2k box they set up the
> same way (consistency??) when there was not enough room for service
> pack 1 to install. I did know that the win2k install CD could be used
> for recovery, though, so the FAT partition is no longer needed.
It a couple of floppies that serve as emergency boot disk.
If memory serves me correctly.
You can make those floppy on any NT machine that you like.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:33:59 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:bThP5.18770$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uj17q$68h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > Details?
> > >
> > > The Microsoft source code is the obvious one, but the same
> > > trick has likely worked everywhere Melissa and ILOVEYOU
> > > did.
> >
> > ILOVEU & Melissa didn't mail any of your files to anyone.
> > Check symnatec.com for further information.
>
> There was a variant of ILOVEU that came around a few weeks
> later that copied all the graphics files it could find (everyone's
> browser cache, etc.) over to a different drive and mailed some
> stuff off somewhere. I'm not sure if anyone tracked down exactly
> what all it did. It filled our server disks and we had to shut some
> of them down until we got the latest virus scanners and cleaned
> everything. Our office is hardly computer-illiterate - this is just
> the reality of having a product like outlook around.
Windows illeterate, I would imagine.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:22:03 +0200
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >A> COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH are the dangerous
files.
> >You must have a different defination of infinite than I do.
> >B> regedit > Hket_Classes_Root will give you a list of all the registered
> >file types in the system.
> >
> >
> >
>
> You forgot .DOC and .XLS. :-)
They are not executables, they need Word/Excel to open them, and then you've
a message asking you whatever you want to run the macro or not.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:42:02 +0200
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> QAZ did try to ship passwords to somewhere in Asia.
> I don't think it used SMTP or IMAP, though -- it used HTTP.
> Probably HTTP POST.
>
> Any trojan on any system could do the same. :-)
Yep.
> Microsoft just makes it lots easier -- and isn't
> that what it's all about anyway? :-)
No, it isn't.
It's a matter of familirity with the technology.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:52:35 +0200
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> PLZI wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > <delurk>
> >
> > > Why does Microsoft need 3rd party software for full remote
administration?
> > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
> >
> > Please define "full remote administration"? On Terminal Server Client,
you
> > get the server console. TSC is a part of W2K server. You get two
concurrent
> > licenses.
>
> Two concurrent licenses?
>
> THAT'S IT?
IOW, you just discovered that there isn't anything that TSC can't do, so you
decided to attack the licensing.
It's not the licensing we are talking about here, it's the technicalities.
> > Yes, there are remote admin software packages available for
W2K. For
> > example, TSC does not have inbuilt scripting language of it's own (like
for
> > example the NetSupport has), but this is besides the point- TSC is an
>
> Really?
>
> Not having an inbuilt scripting language is "beside the point"
>
> Evidently, you'd prefer to do the same repetitive series of
point-click-point-click-point-click.....
> 45 times over...rather than write a short script that does the same
operation
> 45 times for you.
Agreed, and the previous poster was mistaken.
There is a wide variety of scripting languages for your choosing.
VBS, JS, WSH, even perl, if you like it.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:03:57 +0200
"Jim Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:23:03 +0200,
> Ayende Rahien, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> brought forth the following words...:
>
> >
> >"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:0n4P5.18413$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:8uilot$bvi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > But what if the icon is generic or an unknown? Also, a lot of
> >> executables
> >> > > come with their own icons.
> >> >
> >> > If it's unknown, they it wouldn't be executed or even viewed, it will
> >give
> >> > you the open with window.
> >> > As for executables, that is indeed a problem.
> >>
> >> What if they are just unknown to you?
> >
> >
> >Not that many out there that can be executed.
> >Save to disk, check in notepad.
> >If binary, run regedit, check KKET_CLASSES_ROOT, check for the default
> >actions.
> >If I get it too often, build a program in 10 minutes that will do this
for
> >me.
> >If code, read code, if unknown/dangerous code, don't run it.
> >
>
> And I am sure that Grandma finds this easy and intuitive...
No, Grandma will use my 10 minute built program to test that attachment.
Or she will memorize 10 potentially dangerous extentions and that is all.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:04:59 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:99nP5.19049$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:OdeP5.125412$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
>
> > >
> > > > Now that thats out of the way, when will Linux stop allowing root
> > exploits
> > > > so easily?
> > >
> > > Only if you memorize all the icons and logos for all the programs
> > > you find at freshmeat.net.
> >
> >
> > As I suspected. Linux root exploits forever!
>
> Just like that Other OS... except you don't have to wait 6 months for a
> service pack that will break something else you run.
One serious security breach that MS hadn't dealt with for 6 months?
For that matter, one serious security breach that MS hadn't dealt with in
less than a weak?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:08:11 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:LbnP5.19051$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uj0sr$2ib$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > > > > > Those who can't...
> > > > > > Well, Les suggest a hex editor for exe files.
> > > > > > I don't know what users Les has to deal with, but I want them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many are c++ developers for a windows product. But the CVS
> > > > > repository for the source code isn't on a windows box...
> > > >
> > > > IOW, about 10x more knowledgable than the average end user of a
> windows
> > > box.
> > > > When you have *that* kind of a userbase, it's easy to forget that
> *not*
> > > > everybody can read exe files in hex editors.
> > > > Also, you probably don't hear complaints about "my taskbar is on the
> top
> > > > side of the screen, and I can't work like this" (Only I'm
translating
> it
> > > to
> > > > technical terms)
> > >
> > > Oh - the other part of the building is full of accountants.... The
> sales
> > > people are mostly off in branch offices though, and we have several
> > > other people who spend all their time keeping the windows boxes
> > > running.
> >
> > Do you handle those machines/users in person?
> >
>
> Generally no. I only get involved when the windows guys can't make
> things work and start blaming the servers or network.
IOW, you've no direct experiance with normal users.
You've never had to deal with them, you deal with much more knowledgable
users.
You've no idea why certain things are built the way they are, and you attack
them without any knowledge of why they are built this way.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:21:17 +0200
"Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Christopher Smith wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > No, you think that because you are using the concept of programs
acting
> > on
> > > > data files.
> > >
> > > Yes. And the blurring of that distinction by Microsoft is part of the
> > problem.
> >
> > No, it's Xeorix's fault.
>
> There is a difference between having a GUI and blurring the distinction
> between programs and data.
That is the whole point of GUI.
> > > > In the Windows, Mac, OS/2 etc GUIs you manipulate and execute
> > > > icons, whose behaviour is determined globally and identifiable by
the
> > icon
> > > > and/or extension.
> > > >
> > >
> > > And the average user knows what the icon for Visual Basic is?
> >
> > Probably, but it's a buzzword for him.
> > OTOH, he *does* know what a text file should look like, and VBS files
aren't
> > even similar to TXT files.
> >
>
> If he sees the *.vbs file before clicking it.
Who is talking about the extention, I'm talking about the icon.
You can't miss that.
> > You choice, I like not having to learn new things to do the same task
> > everytime I open a program.
> >
>
> At a command prompt, type command, options, and arguments. Hmm.. not
> exactly learning new things each time I run a program.
I like to *remember* how it's done?
So I can do it more quickly.
That is why I need to remember (aka, learning) new things.
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