Linux-Advocacy Digest #301, Volume #30 Sat, 18 Nov 00 23:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Colin R. Day")
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: It's even worse than I thought. (Bob Hauck)
Re: It's even worse than I thought. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Linux Can't find PC133 memory??? (Jolf)
Re: It's even worse than I thought. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ("Les Mikesell")
Re: The Sixth Sense (Goldhammer)
Re: It's even worse than I thought. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: It's even worse than I thought. (Charlie Ebert)
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Chris Lee")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Chris Lee")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:36:00 -0500
Christopher Smith wrote:
> >
> > Maybe in Microsoft OSes, but do UNIX/Linux GUIs attempt to blur the
> > distinction?
>
> The good ones do. KDE, GNOME etc.
>
Of course, KDE doesn't associate shell scripts with an interpreter
by default.
>
> It quite simply is the whole point of the "modern" GUI (ie "desktop
> metaphor") - to not have to worry about programs, but concentrate only on
> the data.
But why does this require blurring the distinction between programs
and data?
> > the user
> > does not know that it is a program).
>
> If they can't figure out it's a program in Windows, they'll ahve even less
> chance in Unix.
>
But unless they're running as root, they still have less chance of
shooting their feet.
> > >
> >
> > Your preference (and MS OSes appeal to that preference) of a consistent
> > GUI over a consistent OS is far more damning thab anything I could say.
>
> You'll notice I sai *UI* consistency. Unix lacks consistency in its CLI and
> GUIs.
>
Yeah, but it still doesn't sacrifice stability for a UI.
>
> > > > > > But would the person have known that it was a shell script, or
> even
> > > > > > what a shell script is?
> > > > >
> > > > > They would have known it wasn't the usual text file.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if they didn't, it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.
> > >
> > > ANd if it happened on any other platform, it wouldn't have made a
> difference
> > > anyway.
> >
> > Accept that other platforms don't associate shell scripts with
> interpreters.
>
> Wrong.
And which other OSes do this?
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:39:55 GMT
You do if you plan on converting that vinyl collection you found in
mom's attic to mp3's (click and pop filter plugin's) or making uncle
george's accordian solo at your wedding sound presentable on the
cassette copy you promised the guests.
Direct-X allows the use of all types of plugin's for programs like
SoundForge and it allows manipulation of the sound as well as
interoperability between programs (ie: the plugin appears as a menu
item in all programs that support Direct-X).
Linux isn't even in the same league.
claire
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 23:50:15 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D.J.) wrote:
>
> "Keldon Warlord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[]are all Linux users this dense or just you? he said DVD and other multimedia
>[]programs....or is it insane jealousy that the MPAA won't give away those DVD
>[]source codes for FREE like the other dozen brainwashed companies that have?
>
> You don't need DirectX to run DVD or other multimedia. Thats the
>point you are missing.
>
>JimP.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: It's even worse than I thought.
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:43:41 GMT
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:00:48 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>No I'm saying that you Penguinista's live in a fantasy land where you
>think everyone else has nothing better to do but read How-To's in
>order to try and make Linux functional.
That isn't what you said. You said that the people you saw shopping at
CompUSA were stupid and implied that they all were Windows users. You
need to work on improving the clarity of your trolls.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: It's even worse than I thought.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:46:39 GMT
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:56:08 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Fortunately Linux is doing just fine in all markets without
>you acting as the spokesperson.
Not on the desktop it isn't.
>Do any of them have a Tivo? They are already running Linux.
And that is certainly a perfect use for Linux. Behind the scenes so to
speak where it's price per performance is high and it's hardware
requirements are low. Also where the user is isolated to a great
degree from it's hostile nature..
Tivo isn't exactly lighting up the world in sales.
claire
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
From: Jolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux Can't find PC133 memory???
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:35:35 GMT
I bought a new mother board, PC chips' VIA KT133 board, with duron and
128 M Pc133 RAM.
But my linux can't recognize all my memory. It tell me that all I have
is only 64M RAM!!!
I tried Mandrake 7.0, Redhat 6.0(RH6.2 doesn't work), the same results.
Under win98, 128M Ram is recognized.
Anybody know the problem?
Thanks,
Jolf
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: It's even worse than I thought.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:56:08 GMT
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:32:09 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Excellent post Charlie. Couldn't say it any better. Claire's
>remarks about her/his trip to CompUSA was interesting. Do you
>really hear all that just walking around a store? Those were
>the sort of anecdotes only a person working in the store would
>get. Yup, Claire must be a sales person in a computer store
>somewhere. Probably shows a fair amount of cleavage to distract
>the customer from what they are buying. :-)
Actually yes you do, especially when you are forced to use CompUSA's
idiotic method of purchasing some items, like the hard drive I was
buying.
Step one: Go to the counter where the hard drives are displayed in a
locked cabinet behind the counter.
Step two: Wait for the salesperson, one of two, to finish with the
other two idiots (2 of the ones I mentioned in the other thread).
Step Three: Tell him what you want and he gets some number from it and
writes it on a slip of paper he hands you.
Step Four: Go to the cashier in another part of the store and wait in
line because she is the only one open and there are 4 people in front
of you.
Step Five: Pay for the item.
Step Six: Go back to the same counter where the hard drives are and
wait in line again as the two salespersons are now dealing with two
other clueless people.
Step Seven: When it is finally your turn, hand the person your paid
receipt and he goes in the back room and gets the product and stamps
your receipt.
Step Seven: Wait in line yet again as the security guard checks every
package against your receipt as you leave the store.
Step Eight: Drive home like a maniac and reflect on why you generally
purchase these items over the net.
Yes Roy, you can pick up quite a bit of information at CompUSA.
claire
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 03:13:44 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Direct-X allows the use of all types of plugin's for programs like
> SoundForge and it allows manipulation of the sound as well as
> interoperability between programs (ie: the plugin appears as a menu
> item in all programs that support Direct-X).
Interoperability? Is that what you call it when most programs
you try to run refuse and tell you to install a different version
of Direct-X first? What is this month's flavor?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 03:10:26 GMT
In article <i9HP5.10691$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Goldhammer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:JgFP5.84353$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
What an incredible post, Mr. Myers. Did you realize
that, with every word you typed, you reinforced
exactly those ridiculous subconscious MS user principles
I outlined?
> > 1. A database is a file.
>
> No one ever said this,
When I asked: what was MSDE's max database size, why
did Bruce Schuck respond with a comment about
maximum 32-bit filesize? And you yourself have suggested
that large Oracle dbs on HP-UX, Solaris <2.5, and any other <2Gb
system is fancy hackwork, just as I knew you would say:
(Chad Myers) "How so? How do you get >2GB databases with Oracle on
Linux?"
(Chad Myers) "Tell us, how do you get a database file larger than 2GB
with Oracle on Linux?"
(Chad Myers) "So you can't use Oracle on Linux for >2GB databases
without fancy techniques or special filesystems."
When I pointed out that >2Gb "limitations" for databases
was pure rubbish, why did _you_ respond with...
(Chad Myers) "What, exactly is the "datafile" if not a file, then?"
And why did Ayende ask me what architecture the TASS >Gb astronomical
database ran under? What difference does it make, if you are all
so clear on the difference between a database and a file?
The only possible logical explanation why someone would
question the existence of 50Gb databases under linux is:
He thinks that a database is a file (quite a common conception
for access users) _and_ that Linux is something that runs
on an x86.
As we all know, Joe User only uses x86s, so other
architectures don't count in the least.
> at least not in this group. It was
> the intention of several penguinistas to imply that I meant
> this in a recent thread,
You have a poor short-term memory.
> > 2. A portable application is one which can be easily
> > carried from one Windows installation to another. This
> > is what Bruce had in mind when he told me that Jet is
> > the right choice for "easy portability".
>
> portability is an overloaded terms. It is a fact that
> any jet database file will work on any Windows system and
> doesn't require Access installed.
Amazing. You proceed to plonk me because you are upset
about how I am portraying certain people (I didn't mention
you, btw). And yet here, you are explaining to me that
Bruce's notion of "portability" is precisely what I said
it was: moving an MS application from one MS machine to
another.
> I believe he said this in
> response to the fact that MySQL must be installed on all
> machines to read a MySQL database.
No, your memory fails you. That isn't what was said.
> > 3. An OS is something that runs on an x86.
>
> Again, removing all context. We were talking about Linux's
> many shortcomings, including it's inability to address >2GB
> files on a 32-bit platform. This is a design flaw and lack
> of professionalism by Linux "designers". NT and several other
> OSen have been able to do this since their inception.
But you have said many, many times that Linux does not
support >2Gb files. Since this cannot be rationalized as a
comment about ext2, it can only be rationalized if you
consider an OS to be something that runs uniquely on 32-bit
machines. Hence my point in the previous post.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's even worse than I thought.
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 03:21:56 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:56:08 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >Fortunately Linux is doing just fine in all markets without
> >you acting as the spokesperson.
>
> Not on the desktop it isn't.
It will. If it weren't for the issue of staying compatible with
data stored in proprietary formats by programs that established
their ubiquity through illegal practices, it already would be.
>
> >Do any of them have a Tivo? They are already running Linux.
>
> And that is certainly a perfect use for Linux. Behind the scenes so to
> speak where it's price per performance is high and it's hardware
> requirements are low. Also where the user is isolated to a great
> degree from it's hostile nature..
A great many users have managed to add a second disk drive without
any problems and don't find it hostile at all.
>
> Tivo isn't exactly lighting up the world in sales.
But it has its own newsgroup where you rarely see a complaint
about anything technical. Unlike anything from Microsoft.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: It's even worse than I thought.
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 03:46:44 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>kiwiunixman wrote:
>>
>> Have to agree with you Lynn. Until Linux is made totally "halfwitt
>> proof", the average Joe or Jane moron will never move to Linux. Windows
>> is almost there (after seeing the latest clips of Windows Whistler), and
>
>Oh really.
>
>"made for nitwits" is exactly what caused the spread of
>
>Melisssa, ILoveYou, etc.
Let me try and tell you why I'm not even remotely worried about
the comments from Windows USER LAND.
#1. People like Claire and others can BITCH but when push comes
to shove, they end up following the line - what ever it is.
This should be very evident to most folks after having read
her 9 steps to buying a hard drive at comp usa thing.
#2. Linux will end up being the WINNER in the OS wars for the
simple reason, it's FREE.
#3. Linux will never be the OS for nitwits.
#4. Claire and company will eventually learn to use Linux
and probably start a campaign against HERD someday.
#5. Never take anybody who thinks Direct X is a benefit
to society seriously. Take her example of recording
an LP and making an MP3 or was it a cassette?
Claire - There is an audio in and out jack on the
back of every sound card. Linux will make an MP3
from this. Direct X has nothing to do with Audio in nor out.
Linux DOES have audio auditing software. See Debian.
#6. Linux embedded really means windows buried.
Hope that clears that up.
Thanks
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:46:30 +0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You do if you plan on converting that vinyl collection you found in
> mom's attic to mp3's (click and pop filter plugin's) or making uncle
> george's accordian solo at your wedding sound presentable on the
> cassette copy you promised the guests.
>
> Direct-X allows the use of all types of plugin's for programs like
> SoundForge and it allows manipulation of the sound as well as
> interoperability between programs (ie: the plugin appears as a menu item
> in all programs that support Direct-X).
>
>
> Linux isn't even in the same league.
You're right. We linux users don't have to worry about the forthcoming
wave of Direct-X specific viruses targeted at losers like you.
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:54:57 -0800
"Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:fxFR5.232$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:19:57 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
> >> Dos on the other hand is so spartan that it's barely usable (which is
why
> > the vast majority of windows users stay away from it whenever possible)
>
> Or if we are smart and come from a UNIX background we load things like
UWIN
> and have a complete UNIX command line and ksh to play with.
Or DCL-Lite if we miss VMS.
------------------------------
From: "Chris Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:55:35 +0500
In article <8v66hb$b46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Toon Afish in alt.destroy.microsoft;
>> >If you read his posts, then you will see that he claimed that Windows
> isn't
>> >capable of remote administration. It is. Terminal server and the
>> >Dameware utilities are two examples. He has only displayed his
>> >ignorance to the world, nothing more, nothing less. If you want more
>> >information on
> Terminal
>> >Server, visit MS's web site. I don't have time to conduct classes.
>>
>> <*Chuckle*>
>>
>> You sound like Microsoft's lawyers arguing the felony convictions;
>> unable to distinguish between empty protestations and practical
>> reality.
>
> Even Unix guros agrees that Win2K is just about as capable to be
> remotedly administered as UNIX.
>
>
Know what "just about as capable to be" means? Absolutely nothing.
------------------------------
From: "Chris Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 23:06:48 +0500
In article <8v6e81$bju$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:CXwR5.370$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Organization: Self Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > Followup-To:
>> >
>> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, The
>> > Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>> > >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Joseph T. Adams
>> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > wrote
>> > >on 17 Nov 2000 00:52:50 GMT
>> > ><8v1vh2$7sc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > >>wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>: Oh, yes.
>> > >>: If Whistler is as good from 2K as 2K is from NT & 98, then
> Linux\Unix has
>> a
>> > >>: reason to be *really* afraid, and by the release of the system
> *after*
>> > >>: whistler, I wouldn't be surprise if those a minority even on the
> server.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>Even if Microsoft released a version of 'Blows that didn't blow, I
>> > >>still wouldn't use it, because:
>> > >>
>> > >> (a) I don't willingly support criminal organizations, with my
>> > >> money
>> > >> or by any other means.
>> > >
>> > >I'm not sure this has been proven either way yet, although the
>> > >findings of fact were interesting.
>> > >
>> >
>> > #1. The Microsoft trial is OVER. They have been found guilty.
>>
>> By a judge of questionable motives and mind. He himself has claimed
>> that he'll be overturned, admitting his poor judgement.
>>
>> Just because a judge says you're quilty, doesn't necessarily mean
>> you're quilty.
>
> Um, didn't you mean to say guilty instead of quilty here? And I've to
> object to the last statement. If a judge rules that you are guilty, then
> you *are* guilty, that is what the word means. At least, that is what
> the word means in court. Whatever you actually did what you are accused
> is a whole different matter, of course.
Even if Mcrosoft gets off in the US court, the EC is going to fry
them.....
------------------------------
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