Linux-Advocacy Digest #450, Volume #30 Sun, 26 Nov 00 18:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: KDE2 (Matthias Warkus)
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: KDE2 (Matthias Warkus)
Re: KDE2 (Matthias Warkus)
Re: KDE2 (Matthias Warkus)
Re: C++ is very alive! (p@spamfree)
Re: C++ is very alive! (p@spamfree)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:04:01 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:17:38 -0800...
...and Transport <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> haven't tried Gnome or any other windows mgr., but KDE works,
Neither GNOME nor KDE are window managers.
mawa
--
bald pit, n.:
what remains of the finely machined slits in a screw's head after
a cordless power screwdriver with way too much battery power and
way too hard a tip has gone berserk inside of it
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:12:33 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > > Netscape 6 supports multiple POP severs, but I've not yet tested it
> > >
> > > According to a review from one of the more known computer reporters in
> here,
> > > it sucks.
> > > Of personal experiance (beta, though) it has the stability of a dove in
> a
> > > hurrican.
> >
> > I gave a quick test (under linux) of beta's. Until PR3 they were just
> > for fun. PR3 appeared to be a reasonable beta (a little buggy, something
> > not implemented, but usable).
> > You may have different behavior under Windows, because the application
> > must handle a lot of issues which under Unix are handled by OS.
>
> Probably, but after the disappotment 4 was, I'm not sure if I'll try it
> until it's tested thourghfully.
Q) What was the main problem with Netscape 4.x??
A) It's not sold by a monopoly in Redmond, Washington owned by a megalomaniac.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:15:38 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Chad Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:PvST5.5571$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > BZZZZZZT Wrong answer, While Win2K does perform nicely with 128MB RAM
> it
> > > > performs rather well with a mere 32-48MB RAM as well.
> > >
> > > I also tested it on a 133 with 32MB (server version, you only need 64
> for
> > > the install) I wouldn't use it as my desktop, but it serves quite well
> as a
> > > small server.
> >
> > You're using Windows 2000 Server on this machine. I truly don't
> > believe it. 2000 Pro's performance for me was intolerable on a similar
> > machine. Even Win98 on the same machine, with a 32MB memory injection
> > (total of 64 MB) sucks royally.
>
> Yes, why not? It's not a desktop machine, it's a server.
>
> > Maybe you guys need to try Linux to see what a really responsive
> > system is like.
>
> Add X, add Gnome & Enlightment, adn you add up with about the same
> requirements.
>
> Win98 will fly on 32MB (I used to work on 16 win 98)
> And I'm running a server on a 64MB which is also used as a desktop machine.
You are insane.
I have a Lose98 machine with 292 MB of memory, 500 MHz processor,
and 3 hard disks (minimizing the delays of head track-"seek" movement...),
the swap space on its own partition (to eliminate fragmentation problems)...
and it crawls like a worm...
>
> > Win2000 on 96 Mb performs pretty shitty, as far as I can tell.
> > Note that I'm talking about disk caching and the user interface.
> > The networking code on Win2000 works damn fast.
>
> My point exactly.
> 133 & 32MB have long passed their time as desktop machines.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:16:20 -0500
Giuliano Colla wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Giuliano Colla wrote:
> > >
> > > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > > The NT4.x and 9x EULAs specifically prohibit ANY customer statement
> > > > > which is damaging to Microsoft in any way.
> > > >
> > > > Can you point me out to where those statement are?
> > > > I can't see how this is true, because when ME came out (and 95/98 too, for
> > > > that matter) a lot of magazines said something like: "You buy a new
> > > > computer, get it, otherwise, keep your own OS" Which is clearly damaging MS
> > > > http://www.iarchitect.com/shame.htm is taking apart several of MS
> > > > application.
> > > >
> > > > Two examples out of the millions I could've given.
> > >
> > > EULA binds customers, not journalists or net sites, hopefully!
> >
> > But most journalists are ALSO MS customers.
> >
> > Catch-22.
> >
>
> This explains the different "opinions" published on the same subject.
Exactly.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:19:00 -0500
mark wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >>
> >> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > >Grow a clue. uptime.exe works over the network. And it reports accurate
> >> > >uptimes, even on NT4.
> >>
> >> > What period does this addon work over (ie., how many days before
> >> > it rolls over to zero)?
> >>
> >> It works on all periods and does not ever roll over to 0. The reason is
> >> that it works by reading the event log for a startup message then subtracts
> >> the time entry of that startup message from the current time of day.
> >
> >You would be surprised.
>
> So it would be zero immediately at startup?
With Microsoft...who knows. They are probably quite busy making
sure that nobody barges in on the 'uptime.exe' market.
one's complement-reverse-ascii-coded-binary, or some such nonsense
>
> Mark
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:22:32 -0500
Jason Bowen wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Stuart Fox wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > I was rather unaware that collecting uptime information from the
> >> > > network was a requirement of an OS. The uptime tool reports
> >> accurate
> >> > > information, but I can't see how MS having a 49.7 day limit or Linux
> >> > > having a 497 day limit on information gathered from the network is a
> >> > > fundamental design flaw.
> >> >
> >> > Even with a BETA-TEST KERNAL, Purdue's Gould PN-9080 machines
> >> > stayed up for 60+ days in 1985-1986.
> >> >
> >> > Face it. Microsoft NT (Neutered Technology) STILL is not ready
> >> > for prime time.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Are you being deliberately stupid, or is a serious mental condition?
> >>
> >> Here's a clue: Uptime reported via the network is not accurate, so the
> >> uptimes reported are wrong. Incorrect uptime does not mean the machine
> >> does not stay up.
> >
> >
> >Yes, but the experience of real-life NT admins DOES mean that
> >the machines don't stay up.
> >
> >Here's a clue:
> >
> >A fellow contractor told of helping with an inventory...
> >there was a Sun box which had been overlooked in the last
> >inventory, and had gone 13 months without any sort of
> >maintenance.....everyone had completely FORGOTTEN about
> >this machine's existance....because it was performing
> >ALL of its functions flawlessly.
> >
> >If this were, instead, a LoseNT machine, would such a situation
> >even be possible?
> >
> >for 5 weeks...maybe. 13 months? Not on your life.
>
> Was this machine not connected to the outside world? Given the number of
Don't know.
Any place large enough to completely forget about a running Solaris
server is big enough to have onre or more entire vertical racks full
of firewalls, proxies, and routers.
> patches that Sun/Microsoft/Linux put out in a year I would find it hard
> to believe that this machine wasn't patched for security reasons or
If it was mistakenly dropped from the inventory, then by what means
would it be taken down for a "security patch" ???
> rebooted from memory leaks. Of course I have seen uptimes of 400+ days
> under Solaris so I'm not completely doubting it. The best I've done under
> Linux is 120 days and that was only ended due to the machine being moved
> to a different room.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:20:29 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:51:40 -0800...
...and matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Some of the technical merits that KDE provides:
> > > >
> > > > Network transparency to the programmer and user.
> >
> > It's X (not KDE) that provides the network transparency (for graphics at
> > any rate)
>
> I was referring to network transparent file access. Not network transparent
> graphics.
That's what gnome-vfs does.
mawa
--
I think that doubling the dosages does not give me dilithium, but
let's have warp speed anyway. -- Andrew Hampe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:20:04 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:06:24 -0800...
...and matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > : > : > bonobo : : KDE has kparts for embedable components and
> > dcop for desktop : communication.
> >
> > Is kparts CORBA-based? I've looked at the developer.kde.org info
> > on kparts. It supports network transparency for *document
> > operations*. How about some network transparency for the
> > objects???
>
> No, Corba proved to be to big and slow for embedable components,
You mean: KDE's CORBA implementation proved to be too big and too slow
for KDE's embeddable components.
> so the came up with kparts. I don't know what you mean network
> transparency for objects? When would you open a document using a
> part that is not on your own computer. This seems like unusable
> overkill.
Yeah, sure. Because KDE doesn't support it it must be unusuable
overkill.
What about a server serving components and controls to an entire
office? At LinuxTag 1999, the KDE people told me that this was one of
the great features that would be made possible by the wonderful
network transparency of KOM/OpenParts.
And now?
> If I need a plugin to open some kind of document I will
> install it.
Sounds a lot like the Windows world. I've worked in a company where
they had an entire subdepartment devoted to having software
installations roll out to their fat clients. Incredible overhead.
> > : > : > oaf medusa : : I don't know what these are?
> >
> > oaf == Object activation framework. It's the GNOME 2.0
> > replacement for gnorba. Each server registers itself using an XML
> > format. When an application requires a specific kind of service,
> > it performs an OAF query, and finds the object(s) it needs to
> > instantiate to service its request.
>
> This is the same as dcop. It uses xml and can communicate with any
> program using any language.
I'm not sure you actually understood what the previous poster wrote.
> > : > : > or GConf. : : : : Kcontrol.
> >
> > Nothing of the kind. GConf provides applications a simple,
> > consistent interface to store and retrieve configuration data.
> > Kcontrol is just a control panel, not unlike gnomecc.
>
> I see what you are talking about now. KDE has something similar
> called KConfig. It works very well. Here is a small example, this
> code is pulled straight out of Kedit.
>
> void TopLevel::readProperties(KConfig* config){ QString filename =
> config->readEntry("filename",""); int modified =
> config->readNumEntry("modified",0); int line =
> config->readNumEntry("current_line", 0); int col =
> config->readNumEntry("current_column", 0);
Does it automatically notify all the listeners about key changes? Does
it support the model/view/controller paradigm? Does it support
multiple back ends?
> > : : A great Web Browser that supports many standards and is
> > getting better : every : day without accumulating bloat.
> >
> > I'd agree that Konqueror is a nice browser. It's a shame I've got
> > to install almost the entire KDE distribution just to get that.
> > Fortunately, galeon is getting better all the time.
>
> Will galeon support embedable components, it is nice to be able to
> view images, pdf files, text files, Office documents, and anything
> else with a plugin.
Why should a Web browser be able to do that?
We've got Nautilus for that purpose.
mawa
--
PROUD TO PLONK Initiative
Life's too short to be trolled, spammed or get upset about lame
posters! Make the Net a better place by ignoring those who annoy you.
Don't be annoyed; keep your calm. Be proud to plonk.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:23:50 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 26 Nov 2000 01:38:39 -0800...
...and matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Compilers only become mature when they are tested, and KDE is
> proving that C++ is great for gui programming and they are testing
> the compiler.
This is not what I would consider an argument in favour of KDE as a
development framework. "Well, by using it and/or developing for it,
you help test the C++ compiler." Yeah, sure.
> > BTW - KDE2 doesn't have anything as advanced as gnome-print,
> QT's print model is much easier and more flexible that that of gnome. With
> gnome you are force to rewrite all of your drawing code to print, while with
> QT you just specify that the painter use a printer instead of a widget. No
> drawing code changes are involved.
How does Qt's printing model manage fonts? Antialiasing?
Pixel-precision, zoomable, antialiased previewing? Which output
formats does it support?
> Some of the technical merits that KDE provides:
[schnibble]
> A truly wonderfull and well thought out API
[schnibble]
What a technical argument. I'm flabbergasted.
mawa
--
Süßfrühstücker!
Täglichrasierer!
Tachobeachter!
Tastaturabdecker!
------------------------------
From: p@spamfree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: 26 Nov 2000 13:53:15 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mlw says...
>
>It wasn't really a quiz, so much as just a small enumeration of things
>that one should know.
>
I think you are confused by the same culture that equates spell checking
quizes with intellegence.
a good engineer or scientist, knows how research and find the details and
techniques needed to solve a problem.
If I have a sorting problem in front of me, I can very easily look up
the references on sorting and refresh myself with the advantages and
disadvantages of each, and choose the best one for the problem.
smart people know where to search for information, they do not memorize it.
------------------------------
From: p@spamfree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: 26 Nov 2000 14:04:10 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Salvador says...
>
>Last week she sent me an email with a link to a story that Notes is
>incorporating sendmail into their next product release to "resolve some
>of the upward scaling problems" they were having with Notes.
>
>I don't particularly care about world domination, but it's pretty clear
>that the proprietary source castles are crumbling.
>
Solaris now ships with Apache. Apache now is the default web server
on Solaris. Sun own web server is being scaled back, it will be
probably be retired some time in the future. Sun has found that
everyone is using apache on Solaris, so it was in their best interest
to ship apache with solaris, after making any needed improvments to make
it run best on solaris.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:04:40 +0000
mark wrote:
> Now, I wonder that lockup tight means? We know that a KDE app
> _might_ cause a KDE problem. We know that KDE _might_ cause an
> X problem. We know that an X problem will not stop the machine.
I mean the whole machine hung, from KDE, to X, to Linux itself. I couldn't
even login remotely.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
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