Linux-Advocacy Digest #611, Volume #30 Sat, 2 Dec 00 17:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Whistler review. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: OS Sound OFF. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: OS Sound OFF. (matt newell)
Re: Whistler review. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Dumbing down linux? (David M. Butler)
Re: Dumbing down linux? (matt newell)
Re: Insite into Linux Kernel 2.4 (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: OS Sound OFF. ("tony roth")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:11:43 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Tom Wilson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:37:17 GMT
<1SrV5.102$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:905e4n$npr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:C5qV5.88$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip]
>> > You have to remember, Ayende, that a lot of folks still play games that
>> were
>> > written before Win95.
>>
>> I know, GoldenAxe is my favoraite old time game.
>> I can still play it, your point?
>
>Simply, a rebuttle to the "...only possible with DOS" and "Because not even
>a moderatedly successful game came out in the last three years or so that
>didn't run on windows?" portions of the thread.
>
>If you want to have fun with an old DOS game, find the original IBM-PC port
>of Centipede and play it on a modern machine. It's hillarious!
A few points here.
[1] I have an old Defender clone somewhere (Stargate) that was
originally for PC-XT era machines, on a 5 1/4" floppy. Forget
about playing it on modern hardware, even if one can locate a
floppy drive (it's possible but one has to hunt); the timers
assume 12 megahertz, probably using old-fashioned fixed-value
busywait loops. I suppose I could try to patch it, but why bother?
[2] Has anyone successfully played Delta-V on Win95, Win98, or WinMe?
(Delta-V is an interesting flight-simulator-cum-_Neuromancer_-type
story that takes a whopping 600K of conventional memory. It was quite
playable using QEMM (I think), if one does some tricky maneuvering,
but I've yet to get it to work under Win95 -- not that I've tried
all that hard.)
[3] I still play DOOM (actually, BOOM) on a regular basis, especially
with randomly-generated new maps from a tool called SLIGE.
Not the most interesting environment, but it helps pass the time. :-)
[4] Unreal almost works under WinE. Last I tried it (which was awhile ago),
its main problem was that multiplayer 'bot mode didn't work.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
up 77 days, 16:49, running Linux.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:14:58 GMT
On 2 Dec 2000 19:51:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Win98SE for digital audio work.Highly customized and bare bones
>> install with no internet connection, games etc. Only programs are
>> digital audio ones.
>
>And awful, no doubt. When are you going to catch up with the rest
>of the world?
As usual you are talking out of your arse.
Name one, even one, professional level digital audio program for
Linux.
claire
>
>
>-----.
------------------------------
From: matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:25:36 -0800
Frizzle Fry wrote:
> Dumping RH 7.0 as they have dumbed the system up too much for me. Currently
> reviewing Mandrake 7.2 and Debian 2.2.
>
>
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
>> The one your using or like the most.
>>
>> Then the others you use follow.
>>
>> Using Debian 2.3 Woody
>>
>> Others None.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Yes, and you are currently using Outlook Express - Under Wine I assume.
Matt Newell
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:20:39 +0200
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:37:30 +0200
> <904176$4tc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> [snip for brevity]
LOL
> >> What's the shell?
> >
> >What do you mean here?
>
> For the benefit of education, since there seems to be quite a
> bit of confusion here....
<major snippage>
Thanks for the info.
It this case, Whistler respond to both "cmd" & "command" from start>run
And fire up CLI, it acts like NT/2K's cmd, btw.
FWIW, batch files are quite limited, although they can do quite a lot.
If you need to script something, CMD is much better choice.
Of course, WSH or VBS/JS files are probably the ones that gives you the most
in this regard.
CMD/? result in very interesting (and long) text.
------------------------------
From: David M. Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dumbing down linux?
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:31:47 -0500
mlw wrote:
> So how are they "dumbing it down?"
They're not. It's a silly argument that I've never agreed with. Adding an
optional GUI to an already existing program doesn't make Linux dumb, it
makes it available to a wider range of people. Don't like the "dumb" GUI,
just use it the old way. Don't like all the stuff Mandrake installs by
default? Use Debian instead.
The people who think Linux is being "dumbed down" usually just don't like
that regular computer users might be able to figure out how to use Linux if
there are easier ways to do things... and by gods! We can't have those
REGULAR people using our special OS!! Or something.
D. Butler
------------------------------
From: matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dumbing down linux?
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:33:04 -0800
mlw wrote:
> I have read a few things on this group and I am curious. There seems to
> be a consensus that RedHat is dumbing down Linux. I am using it, and it
> has all the things I need. I can still configure it from vi when I need
> too. It doesn't seem to be missing things from previous releases, with
> the exception of "glint" and I don't think I've seen that since 5.2.
>
> KDE and Gnome have added a lot of more <euphemism> user friendly
> </euphemism> applets, but it is not as if they are replacing more hard
> core tools with the prettier ones. They are simply adding.
>
> So how are they "dumbing it down?"
If someone tells you that Redhat is dumbing down dumbing down linux, then tell
them to shut up. All Redhat is doing is
1. Making installation easier. As long as an advanced setup still exists this
is fine with me.
2. Making Configuration tools. This is another very good thing, you don't
have to use them if you don't want to.
3. Try to set everything up as easy as possible. Even the most advanced
linux/unix person doesn't mind having his hardware detected and working
without interaction.
Matt Newell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Subject: Re: Insite into Linux Kernel 2.4
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:46:52 GMT
On 30 Nov 2000 23:50:57 GMT, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|: In article <9048d4$fta$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steve Mading wrote:
|:>matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|:>
|:>: I use 2.4 test kernels full time and the only thing that I have upgraded is
|:>: modutils and ppp. Everything works great and I can't wait until 2.4 is
|:>: released because then I will be able to try out all the new stuff going into
|:>: 2.5.
|:>
|:>Really? What about the tools that use the /proc system, like 'ps'?
|:>Aren't they pretty dependant upon matching exactly to the kernel
|:>version?
|
|
|: No.
|
|Must have been my imagination then the time I upgraded from one of
|the 2.0's (forgot which) to one of the 2.2 kernels, and it caused
|ps and pppd to break (which was a mess because of all my scripts
|that used ps for important things). A note on the download page
|for the kernel mentioned that I needed to update a few programs too
|(like ps) because the kernel's change also included a change to
|the layout of the struct used to pass process info via a system call.
Yes, this did happen, but AFAIK these structures are not changing in 2.4,
so the tools sholdn't break.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: "tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:36:28 -0800
nt4 sp6a average file size is 1+ GIG smallest volume on server 800 gigs, 0
downtime :)
linux rh 6.2 for samba useage whilst we get rid of the sgi's
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
> The one your using or like the most.
>
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:05:33 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 1 Dec 2000
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Themselves, actually.
>> >
>> >In order to keep their profit margins up, they must often sell new
>versions
>> >to their existing customers. In order to do that, they have to give the
>> >customer something they want. No customer throws away a perfectly good
>> >product for something that they don't want.
>>
>> So you buy a whole new OS every two years, because it has a feature you
>> want? What are you, stupid?
>
>I'm sorry, versus you who does not financially support the people working on
>your OS.
ROTFL!
>I believe in compensating people that do things for me which help. That's
>why I purchase even multiple versions of Linux rather than just downloading
>them.
You are *such* a humanitarian.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:05:36 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:22:20
>"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
[...]
>> I think what you say is most true when the application is large,
>> well-written, well-documented, and performs a popular function.
>> In that case, then the project can only be funded by a company
>> with sources of income from other projects. A good example is
>> Star Office. Another is IE.
>
>(MS)IE is not open source.
No, but it is funded with income from other projects; that was what
Chris meant.
>Actually, I'm thinking more about things like Apache & MySQL as examples for
>how it can work for the benefit of all.
>The problem is how to make *profit* out of GPLed products.
That is only a problem for people who want to make a profit out of GPL
code. It does not affect those who develop GPL software or those who
use GPL software. You seem to be presuming the software needs to be
sold at a profit, or it can't be written or used, merely because that's
the way you're used to doing it.
>If anyone seen "Cabaret" (a decent movie about pre-nazi germany), you might
>remember the song "Money Makes the World Go Around"
But it doesn't make computers run. Software does that, and software
doesn't cost any money. It can be infinitely replicated. If you
understand supply and demand, you understand that this makes its value
effectively zero.
>But what I'm saying is true for all well-designed software. It should be
>able to be used without *requiring* you to buy support.
That depends on whether the requirement is caused by crappy design or
engineering, or simply the fact that it is a complex and critical part
of a business operation. Business people generally don't whine about
having to buy support; its a cost of doing business. You own complex
equipment, you need experts to run it for you.
>Buying support for a product you don't know well is a Good Thing. Especially
>something as critical as an OS, such a Linux or FreeBSD.
>That way you get people who get *paid* because they *know* how to fix the
>system to *help* you.
>The problem is that you can usually do *without* buying the support.
How is that a problem?
>Especially in the examples that I've said: Linux/FreeBSD
>Plenty of help avialable for free, of course, it might not be as good as you
>would get if you paid for support, but it's usually enough.
Strangely enough, what you get for free is often less valuable than what
you pay money for. Go figure.
>Now, assuming that I make a good software, no matter what size it is, I
>would hope that people can learn to use it without *requiring* my help.
>Frankly, if I sell support and give the software away, I find myself in a
>conflict of interests. On the one hand, one of my definations of good
>software is that it's easy to use or learn.
You have confused "support" with "newbie help", I'm afraid. That's not
what IT professionals mean when they say "support".
[...]
>I know this seems like a flame, but I think that those are real concerns
>when a programmer/company need to decide whatever to GPL their code or not.
<*chuckle*> Your point might be a tad more believable if it weren't
entirely up to the programmer whether he GPLs his code.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:05:39 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 2 Dec 2000
>"Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>IBM was negotiating a new contract. Typically, when one negotiates a new
>contract, one looks at past performance. IBM apparently didn't pay it's
>bills, thus MS wanted compensation before agreeing to a new contract.
Horsefeathers, as usual, Erik. MS threatened IBM with an audit, as they
do many of their customers, because they have monopoly power and can do
so. If you have something other than Microsoft's empty accusations, you
might say it is "apparent" that IBM owed MS something. Nobody else has
ever seen any evidence of this, however.
>Principles didn't even come into the matter. MS wanted to be compensated
>for the licenses they had lost payment on. Allowing IBM to "get away" with
>not paying their licenses would have made it difficult for MS to enforce
>licenses on anyone else.
What licenses? And what precisely would make it difficult for a
monopoly to do whatever they want? And why, if your fantasy
explanations are even remotely accurate, did MS tell IBM their problems
would go away if they stopped promoting OS/2?
>Further, the judge made no ruling that the testimony you mentioned was
>uncompetitive behavior. Lots of things were testified about at the trial.
>An overall ruling does not mean that everything that was testified was
>uncompetitive behavior, just that there was enough evidence for the judge to
>believe that uncompetitive behavior went on.
You are apparently unaware of the nature and content of the Finding of
Facts. http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
[...]
>IBM was well aware of Windows 95 and it's system resources as much as a year
>ahead of time. They didn't need their signed licenses to order stock,
>especially since OS/2 required similar resources.
Good point. An empty charade of an argument, but a good point.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:06:18 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 02 Dec 2000
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 01 Dec 2000
>> [...]
>> >Huh? The quote BLANK FILE is still built to support all the current
>> >versions features and the old version still hadn't the prescience to be able
>> >to read those attributes.
>>
>> What attributes? ITS A BLANK FILE!
>
>No it's an empty template. Got the point now.
No, I don't. Its not a template, its a file. If you're trying to say
it isn't really empty, although it is a wordprocessing document with no
content, then I'd say Microsoft's file format design sucks even worse
than I imagined. You mean they don't even have a file format?
[...]
>> Actually, they did. WordPerfect (which hasn't been WordPerfect
>> Corporation for a few years now) always handled conversions much better
>> than the monopoly crapware.
>
>Of the time, Not any more.
Thus the designation "monopoly crapware"; those products still available
after technically superior alternatives have been driven from the market
by anti-competitive practices.
>> >IAC, the market was always driven by new versions
>> >supporting old formats not the ludicrous complaint that older versions
>> >should support newer file types.
>>
>> The fact is, your entire argument about "new features" is entirely
>> bogus. You don't know what these features are, why they required a few
>> file format, or anything. You're forced into the position of insisting
>> that every change is an improvement, because MS said it was.
>
>Nope.
"Nope?" That's all you can say?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:06:29 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 02 Dec 2000
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> >The market likes my application and a
>> >majority buy it. Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
>> >application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my files.
>> >
>> >Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Ummm, yes. It is your responsibility, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO REMAIN
>> COMPETITIVE, to make sure your competitor can read your files. If he
>> can't, that makes your files less valuable to your customers, which
>> makes your product less valuable to your customers. Using market share
>> to deter competition is illegal.
>
>Bullshit. It has nothing to do with market share it has to do with
>intellectual property.
Boy, I don't think you could be more mistaken if you tried. It isn't
your intellectual property being saved in those file formats, and it
doesn't make it your intellectual property when its put in your file
formats, and YOUR FILE FORMATS ARE NOT YOUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, as
they merit no such protection at all, not as patented technology, not as
copyrighted work, and not even as capable of being protected by trade
secret.
Using market share to deter competition is illegal.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:06:47 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:08:45
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 01 Dec 2000
>> >Boy do you have weird notions about law. Your view is that primary
>> >vendors in any given market <must> support the mechanisms employed by
>> ><all> smaller vendors attempting to compete?
>>
>> That's one way of putting it. I must correct you on one minor point:
>> this is the way the law works, whether you believe it is a "weird
>> notion" because you are unfamiliar with it or not.
>>
>> The primary vendor (so to speak) is NOT ALLOWED to use that fact in ANY
>> WAY to gain an advantage over the competition.
>
>I don't understand that much about US laws, but I do believe that this is
>allowed.
Well, I do understand US law, and you are mistaken; it is not allowed.
>It's forbid to use that fact to block competition, tough.
There is no real difference between gaining an advantage over
competition anticompetitively, and blocking competition.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:07:19 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 01 Dec 2000
>Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> > The primary vendor (so to speak) is NOT ALLOWED to use that fact in ANY
>> > WAY to gain an advantage over the competition.
>
>If you take that the way you wrote it, then a vendor that gains a
>plurality of the market must immediately stop further improvements until
>others 'catch up'.
That would be a pretty stupid way of handling the situation. There are
more productive ways of avoiding monopolization. Bear in mind, however,
that simply *acquiring and maintaining* a large market share is evidence
of monopolization. Free markets, you see, generally work to prevent one
vendor from gaining a "plurality of the market".
>Because <any> improvements can be taken as an
>attempt to impede competition by making your product more attractive.
"Can" isn't the same word as "will", I hope you know. Anti-trust laws
do not outlaw certain actions; they outlaw certain *classes* of actions.
IOW, it is perfectly legal to improve your product, even if it costs
competitors market share; it is *always* illegal, however, to cost
competitors market share, even if you do it by improving your product.
It has to do with intent, and whether what you call an improvement is
actually an efficiency in production or delivery which benefits the
consumer.
>This is exactly why I don't like government interference - it's a rat
>hole with no bottom.
Only if you don't understand how the law is applied. There is something
called a "rule of reason" which mitigates the problem you are talking
about. If the action was not anti-competitive, then it is not illegal.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:07:59 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Bob Hauck in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:43:53
GMT;
>On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:26:05 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 02:31:10 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
>>> >application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my files.
>>>
>>> Only...they aren't your files. They are your customer's files.
>>
>>Half rabbit. s/my files/my file formats/
>
>You not wanting competitors to know your file format adversely affects
>your customer's ability to use their own data. Your "rights" as a
>vendor have to be balanced with your customer's rights to their data.
While keeping in mind that producers don't have any "rights" to speak
of, in the context of this discussion. Only opportunities to engage in
commerce, and requirements to act legally.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 22:08:51 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 02 Dec 2000
>"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:26:05 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 02:31:10 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
>> >> >application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my
>files.
>> >>
>> >> Only...they aren't your files. They are your customer's files.
>> >
>> >Half rabbit. s/my files/my file formats/
>>
>> You not wanting competitors to know your file format adversely affects
>> your customer's ability to use their own data. Your "rights" as a
>> vendor have to be balanced with your customer's rights to their data.
>>
>
>OK, but my customers, by definition, already have my application and by
>extension access to their data. Moot point.
It appears the point was lost on you.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
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