Linux-Advocacy Digest #648, Volume #30 Mon, 4 Dec 00 17:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is awful ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: [OT] Gore & Bush ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:13:28 +0200
"Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:O7OW5.46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Cobblers. While I agree that it doesn't do any repartitioning, Windows
98SE
> WILL format your hard drive if it finds no filesystem on it. If there is
one
> there already I agree that it won't, but that wasn't what I was saying.
I never heard about it.
Can you refer me to some docs about it?
AFAIK, if the installer can't find a FAT/FAT32 drive, it gives you an error
and that is it.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:15:03 +0200
"I R A Darth Aggie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:45:33 +0200,
> Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, in
> <90ftn4$qoko$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> +
> + "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> + news:sqDW5.29923$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> + >
> + > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> + > news:90ebn3$smj4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> + > >
> + > >
> + > > > Just read the guides first.
> + > >
> + > > I know that it is in the docs, the reason I've problems with it is
that
> + > > Redhat neglected to put a simple warning box through the
installation.
> + > > You may disagree, but on every other possibly distructive action,
you
> + get
> + > a
> + > > warning saying this may be dangerous. Why not on one of the most
> + dangerous
> + > > thing that you can do to your computer?
> + >
> + > Are you sure about that? I can't remember exactly which steps I used
> + > on which distribution, but I am sure that I went through a workstation
> + > and server install to see what you get and before it changed the
> + partitions
> + > it issued a warning about losing all contents on the hard disks.
That
> + > could have been Mandrake, or perhaps you used some unusual modes
> + > expert/text, etc. that exposed a bug.
> +
> + Yes, I'm sure of it.
> + A Server Installation in RedHat will wipe out every last bit of data
you've
> + on your system and will take it, without a *single warning*.
>
> Perhaps the warning came before you expected it. I can't speak to
> RedHat, but I know Debian puts up a warning of "you should back up
> your data first, installing this software could wipe out everything
> you've" very, very early on.
No warning whatsoever during the installation of redhat server.
Not early on or during the parts where you choose server/workstation/custom.
None at all.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:18:10 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:hXQW5.64255$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.x Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : First thing should be to call the store that sold you the hardware, and
ask
> : them about it. The second thing to do was to go to the web and ask
questions
> : about it.
Third thing, go to microsoft.com and search the KB.
> The original poster that he was replying to was talking about how great
> the M$ Windows help files were, though.
On general, I tend to disagree.
There is a *lot* that can be wrong in hardware, the help files provide some
basic functions to check what is wrong before the helpless user turn to
support, wherever he finds it.
Compare Linux man/readme/help page to window one, I find that the linux
pages require much more concentration because of the technical language.
Windows help files are better in that respect, and usually provides helpful
information.
> I agree with you, but there is no reason a Linux (or any other OS) user
> couldn't do this.
Of course there isn't, that is what so good with the net.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:04:39 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:905iu0$1coo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Frankly, I think that setuping linux is the easiest part of the
> installation.
> About the only thing that is hard in it is the repartitioning part.
> And using it for normal tasks like browsing and email and word processing
is
> very simple as well.
> The problem start when you try to go a little beyond this.
> Due to a very steep learning curve, most users will simply give it up,
> saying it's too hard, and will never get their computer to its full
> potential.
That is precisely the fatal flaw in Linux, and why it will NEVER take over
the majority of desktops: the steep learning curve. Compared to Linux, NT 4
has next to no learning curve (and Windows 2000 has even less), which makes
them drop-dead simple for businesses to adopt (Comcast Cable Communications
is the third-largest cable company in the US, and is all either NT 4 or
Windows 2000, from server closet to CAE desktop) or individuals (@Home is
the ONLY cable modem Internet service that supported Windows 2000 from
Launch Day).
True, Linux has made major strides in everything from application support to
hardware support, but the learning curve is worse than that for Windows NT;
FAR worse. The learning curve for Windows 2000 is, to some extent, easier
than that for 9x (and FAR easier than that for NT 4), and that for Whistler
is planned to be easier still. Can Linux fix this without alienating the
techies who love Linux BECAUSE of the steep learning curve?
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:54:55 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>>>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>>>>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>>>>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
>>>>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>>>>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>>>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>>>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
>>>>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>>>> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
>>>> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
>>>> proof for that claim.
>>>>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
>>>>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>>>>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
>>>>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
>>>>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
>>>>>>> humanity as a result.
>>>>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>>>>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
>>>>>
>>>>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator password.
>>>>> He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way, because you can hack
>>>>> into console debug mode and trick it into believing all system passwords
>>>>> have time-expired. That way he can log on as Administrator and get prompted
>>>>> for a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he knows
>>>>> everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>>>> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>>>>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>>>> Behind a firewall?
>>>>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>>>>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>>>>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
>>>>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>>>>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
>>>>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>>>>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
>>>>> intellegence.
>>>> Where did he do that?
>>>>
>>>> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>>>>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
>>>>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
>>>>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
>>>>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>>>>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>>>>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>>>>> Yep, you're anal....
>>>> An illogical conclusion.
>>>>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
>>>>>>> regarding experience.
>>>>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
>>>>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
>>>>>> about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement
>>>>>> about trees to be wrong.
>>>>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>>>> No.
>>>>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>>>> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>>>>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>>>>>> How ironic.
>>> Tholen..you really need to see a doctor.
>> On what basis do you make that claim?
>>> Your anus needs is currently depositing waste material
>>> where your brain should be.
>> Even more invective. But of course: where's the logical argument?
> I've given it to you FIVE TIMES already, asshole.
Invective five times does not make a logical argument, Aaron.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:58:57 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>>>>>>>> We're talking about intuition, not incompetence.
>>>>>>>>> Put an electric appliance in front of somebody who has never
>>>>>>>>> used an electric appliance before, and you'll learn that there
>>>>>>>>> is absolutely NOTHING intuitive about on/off switches.
>>>>>>>> Once again, you're hypothesizing a situation that precludes
>>>>>>>> intuition.
>>>>>> Note: no response.
>>>> Note: still no response.
>> Note: still no response.
Note: still no response.
>>>>>>>>> They are merely FAMILIAR, not intuitive.
>>>>>>>> How is an electric appliance familiar to someone who has never
>>>>>>>> used an electic appliance before?
>>>>>>> PRECISELY,
>>>>>> Precisely why your analogy fails. You're going outside the relevant
>>>>>> group, namely those who use electrical appliances. Just because some
>>>>>> hypothetical "primitive tribesman" won't find a power switch intuitive
>>>>>> doesn't mean that nobody can find a power switch to be intuitive.
>>>>>> Familiarity does not have to be universal before something can be
>>>>>> intuitive to someone.
>>>> Note: no response.
>>> I've explained it 5 times already, you shit-head.
>> Your so-called "explanation" consists of invective, Aaron, not a logical
>> argument.
> Deliberately ignoring information presented
Where have I allegedly done that, Aaron? I've exposed the holes in your
so-called "proof". The remainder of your postings have consisted of
invective, not "information".
> is NOT victory,
Irrelevant, given that victory hasn't been declared, Aaron.
> shit-for-brains.
As usual, the expected invective, and no logical argument from you.
>>>>>>> shit-head
>>>>>> You must really be hurting for a logical argument.
>>>>> Just commenting on your inability to comprehend a logical argument.
>>>> What alleged inability? You're the one who hasn't comprehended my
>>>> logical argument, and you've not offered any counterargument, just
>>>> immature invective.
>>> PLease get a doctor to reroute your rectum away from your cranium.
>> Another one of your so-called "explanations". Practice what you preach,
>> Aaron.
> This explanation is only about why you have failed to understand
> the previous explanation.
How ironic, coming from the person who has failed to understand the
holes in the so-called "explanation" that I identified. Using your
reasoning, nothing can be intuitive.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:15:47 +0000
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> You forgot to mention that once it is installed, it's an unexplainable
> blue screening pile of bullcrap. No matter what kind of software
> you put on it, whether it was made in house or not, it's one time
> consuming, messy blue screening pile of worthless electron wastin
> shit!
Then why haven't you changed it at work, Charlie? Why is your job still
supporting something you rate as a blue screening pile of bullcrap?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:19:52 -0500
Matthew Soltysiak wrote:
>
> kiwiunixman wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> > > Or you can just get a real OS with a real windowing and display system
> > > that support advanced font rendering, color correction, aliasing or anti-,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > -Chad
> >
> > or chad, you could go and fuck yourself and your winbox.
> >
> > kiwiunixman
>
> So....anything else you like to add? Childish name calling and cussing isn't
> gonna get you anywhere. You should realize that, newbie.
You should really get a doctor to remove your rectum
from your cranium.
>
> --
> Matthew Soltysiak
> Comp Sci/Soft Eng
> ICQ: 3063118
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:20:32 GMT
"Robert Wiegand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Guy wrote:
>
> > windows is easy to use...no brainer to use most of the time plus you can
> > get support up the wazoo...but its unstable, erratic, and downright
> > bloody annoying...
>
> Windows may be easy to use, but is is *not* easy ti install.
>
> A big problem is that many people compare a pre-installed Windows
> to a install-it-your self Linux. Then then complain that Linux
> is too difficult.
>
> They should really try doing a Windows install before complaining.
I've done every sort of Windows install you care to imagine, and with darn
near every version of Windows (the ONLY exceptions being Windows 1.0 and
Windows 2000 Datacenter Server). Windows/286, /386, 2.0, 3.x (.0, .1, .11,
Workgroups), 95 (original, SR1, SR2/2.1/2.5), NT (3.1, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0), 98
(Classic AND SE), ME, 2000 (Pro to Advanced Server).
Fact is, Windows gets easier to install with each release, which can also be
said to be the case with Linux. However, for the first time that I can
recall, the easiest OS to install is not only a Microsoft OS, but a
Microsoft BUSINESS OS. Windows 2000 Professional is the EASIEST operating
system to install and get running today. There is very little for a typical
user to do except some minimal typing and some mouse clicks (in fact, there
is far less than is involved in setting up Windows ME). Even more likeable
is the flat-out fact that Windows 2000 Professional is more
hardware-friendly than any Microsoft business OS before it (and FAR
friendlier than Linux).
Linux still gets "tripped up" over some semi-common PC hardware (Dell
Optiplexes are notorious for driving Linux Mandrake distributions crazy),
whereas, in most cases, Windows 2000 pours on with the greatest of ease.
The problem with Linux isn't really XFree86 (not since Release 4), but
SOUND. Common sound cards (in particular, the Sound Blaster Live! family)
are STILL not supported natively in common Linux distributions (whereas
Windows 2000 INCLUDES basic drivers for these cards).
Unless Linux supports more common hardware (especially sound cards), it will
ALWAYS come in second place to Microsoft on the desktop.
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Gore & Bush
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:24:24 -0500
Quantum Leaper wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Stefan Ohlsson wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob Hauck wrote:
> > > >On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:38:26 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>well to be honest the legal system never thought we would have such a
> > > >>crybaby loser like we have with Gore so b/c of him we are having a 30
> > > >>day election instead of a 1 day election with some votes counted 5
> times
> > > >>and the other 95% counted once.
> > > >Gore did win the popular vote nationally, so your man Bush was really
> > > >the minority choice. If the tables were turned, would you be telling
> > > >Bush to concede or would you be insisting that he's only taking
> > > >advantage of the options available and saying that the electoral
> > > >college system needs to be thrown out?
> > > >
> > > I'm sorry to budge in, but I just want to say what I think of this
> > > and that is that it is just sad.
> > >
> > > Gore is afraid to lose if a recount isn't made
> > > Bush is afraid to lose if a recount _is_ made.
> > >
> > > Why couldn't they just have done the recount and then accept the
> > > result of it? Instead they act like children in a sandbox trying to get
> > > votes included and excluded, recounts made and disallowed.
> >
> > There have been TWO recounts already.
> >
> > On the initial count: Bush won
> > On the first recount: Bush won
> > On the second recount: Bush won
> >
> > How many more do they need?
> >
> Are machines perfect? The makers of the voting machines say the is a
> margin of error and the winning count falls within that range.
> BTW Gore won the national election by 300,000 votes but so far is losing the
> Electoral college vote.
When presented with LEGAL BALLOTS, they have an error rate
of less than 1 per 1,000,000 ballots.
5.8 Million votes were cast in Florida.
That means that the machine count is within 6....which is MUCH
more accurate than hand counting. (how many stacks of 100 votes
are actually 99 or 101?)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:30:02 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
> >>>>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>
> >>>>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
> >>>>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>
> >>>>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>>>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>>>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
> >>>>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>
> >>>> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
> >>>> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
> >>>> proof for that claim.
>
> >>>>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
> >>>>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>
> >>>>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
>
> >>>>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
> >>>>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
> >>>>>>> humanity as a result.
>
> >>>>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>
> >>>>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator password.
> >>>>> He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way, because you can hack
> >>>>> into console debug mode and trick it into believing all system passwords
> >>>>> have time-expired. That way he can log on as Administrator and get prompted
> >>>>> for a new one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he knows
> >>>>> everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>
> >>>> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>
> >>>>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>
> >>>> Behind a firewall?
>
> >>>>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>
> >>>>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>
> >>>>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
> >>>>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>
> >>>>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
> >>>>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>
> >>>>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
> >>>>> intellegence.
>
> >>>> Where did he do that?
> >>>>
> >>>> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>
> >>>>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
> >>>>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
> >>>>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
> >>>>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>
> >>>>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>
> >>>>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>
> >>>>> Yep, you're anal....
>
> >>>> An illogical conclusion.
>
> >>>>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
> >>>>>>> regarding experience.
>
> >>>>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
> >>>>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
> >>>>>> about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement
> >>>>>> about trees to be wrong.
>
> >>>>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>
> >>>> No.
>
> >>>>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>
> >>>> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>
> >>>>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>
> >>>>>> How ironic.
>
> >>> Tholen..you really need to see a doctor.
>
> >> On what basis do you make that claim?
>
> >>> Your anus needs is currently depositing waste material
> >>> where your brain should be.
>
> >> Even more invective. But of course: where's the logical argument?
>
> > I've given it to you FIVE TIMES already, asshole.
>
> Invective five times does not make a logical argument, Aaron.
Neither does ignoring the argument presented for as many days, Dave.
You're still THE STUPIDEST person I've ever come across on the Internet
in 12 years.
Did you go see the doctor for that cranial rectumotomy like I suggested?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
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