Linux-Advocacy Digest #688, Volume #30 Wed, 6 Dec 00 13:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux is awful (WorLord)
Re: Linux is awful ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux is awful (WorLord)
Re: Linux is awful (WorLord)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Bill Vermillion)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Bill Vermillion)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Bill Vermillion)
Re: Linux is awful (WorLord)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete)
Re: Whistler review. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux (.)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: WorLord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:01:28 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "scatterman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
>Even the best W9X version (the original with all the updates) could hardly
>run longer then a few days.
Someone else will probably (or has probably) said this already, but
that's pure unadulterated bullshit.
The machine I'm typing on (WinME) has been up since the 3rd of
November.
Now, I'll grant you that it takes a lot of work and tweaking to get
Wind9x *that* stable; but it can be done.
--WorLord
"You could spend an hour counting the petals in a flower
It might take you a year to count the veins in each petal
If you spent ten lifetimes, maybe you could count its cells...
...but you'd have completely missed the point
You fuckhead."
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:12:46 GMT
"WorLord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "scatterman"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
> >Even the best W9X version (the original with all the updates) could
hardly
> >run longer then a few days.
>
> Someone else will probably (or has probably) said this already, but
> that's pure unadulterated bullshit.
>
> The machine I'm typing on (WinME) has been up since the 3rd of
> November.
>
> Now, I'll grant you that it takes a lot of work and tweaking to get
> Wind9x *that* stable; but it can be done.
>
True. I just object that you have to keep Win9x up *in spite of itself*. <g>
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
Currently hacking out Windows Code
and not liking it....
> --WorLord
>
> "You could spend an hour counting the petals in a flower
> It might take you a year to count the veins in each petal
> If you spent ten lifetimes, maybe you could count its cells...
>
> ...but you'd have completely missed the point
> You fuckhead."
------------------------------
From: WorLord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:16:56 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
>> This is misinformation. MD adds the switch, just to rc.local instead
>> of lilo.conf. However, I've not had to add it myself, MD does it for
>> you.
>You can't add a switch to rc.local. Duh! You can only add scripting, which
>might call a program with switches such as hdparm.
You still can't dodge the point that Mandrake boots up with optimized
hard drives.
>MD as of 7.2 no longer does it for you. That's what I'm trying to tell you.
IF - and I mean IF - it does not do it for YOU, that's because you
told it NOT TO.
The software to do it is in the installer, and it works when selected.
Obviously, you didn't select it.
>I let the setup install every program it wanted to. I told it to install
>100%. DrakFont is not in my DrakConf.
What mode did you select: Workstation, Server, Development? 100% is
DIFFERENT in each of the three cases.
>As far as I can tell, it only allows you to select the generic monitor types
>at certain frequencies. My monitor, the Sony GDM-F500 doesn't list a
>refresh rate and provides no way to change it graphically (that I can see)
>as do every other name brand monitor listed in DrakX. All you can do is
>select Resolution and color depth.
So use a generic driver.
Point is, the option is there.
>How is it easier or more precise?
Well, let's see. Color depth, Resolution, and Refresh rate are all
pretty much handled in one dialog box (In LM 7.2). In Windows Me, Res
and color depth are handled together, but the refresh rate pull-down
is hidden behind an "advanced" button, and then behind an "adapter"
tab. Now, that's *if* your Windows-detected hardware allows you to
set any other resolution *beyond* "Adapter Default" or "Optimal".
Some vendors have made drivers that address this option, but all of
these slick options are still hidden behind the advanced button, and
often do similar things as the standard tabs that Windows provides.
While I've had years to get used to windows idiosyncrasies - and am
thus aware of how windows does things with regard to video settings -
you would not believe the amount of time I spend walking new people
through this, both in person or over the phone. I've only had to help
a Linux user with this once, and only to tell said person what command
to type to run DrakX.
>Mandrake claims in it's "What's new in Linux-Mandrake 7.2" section that 7.2
>includes
>"Simplified DrakX graphical installation". It appears to have simplified it
>so much that you can't do lots of stuff anymore.
The amount of stuff you can do with the DrakX graphical installer is
directly dependant on what mode of installation you select.
"Easy" is designed to just install MD with a minimal of questions
asked of the user. The "lots of stuff" you refer to as missing is cut
from this method of installation.
"Custom" is like easy, but affords you more options - specifically in
the areas of software selection.
"Expert" asks you the most questions, and allows you to do all of the
stuff you seem to think is being omitted.
All of this is explained on the website, BTW.
--WorLord
"You could spend an hour counting the petals in a flower
It might take you a year to count the veins in each petal
If you spent ten lifetimes, maybe you could count its cells...
...but you'd have completely missed the point
You fuckhead."
------------------------------
From: WorLord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:20:36 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "Kelsey Bjarnason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
>Odd; I installed it just the other day - or tried to. It wouldn't even
>recogniz that the drives _existed_, never mind supporting them.
>UltraDMA-100. Doesn't understand it at all, apparently. 'Course. throwing
>them onto the IDE bus let it find them - but so much for the UDMA support.
Tell me something, do you try to install Intel software onto an IMAC?
No?
Then why are you trying to install an OS that *clearly states* that
UDMA-100 is *not* supported onto a computer that has a UDMA-100
controller?
You want to bitch about software, that's fine... I do it a lot myself.
But trying to install software onto a system that said software
clearly doesn't support is just an exercise in futility, and you
deserve every bit of trouble you get.
--WorLord
"You could spend an hour counting the petals in a flower
It might take you a year to count the veins in each petal
If you spent ten lifetimes, maybe you could count its cells...
...but you'd have completely missed the point
You fuckhead."
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:48:45 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bill Vermillion wrote:
>> One of the reasons that Wang - one of the early word processor
>> manufacturers - had all the function keys on the top of the
>> keyboard - and like so many editor have a this - as that it was
>> designed for people who used typewriters.
>Did they ever try another approach? I doubt that very strongly. They
>just dumbed down their user interface in order to play safe.
The IBM Displaywriters used the same approach. For someone who had
been typing for years and years, it was much more user friendly
to have function keys for formatting paragraphs for example.
I don't know how many times I've had to explain to some users who
had been typists for 25 years that 'l' is not '1'. They grew
up on typewriters that didn't have a '1' on them. The IBM
selectrics and newer electrics did have numerical keys, but old
habits die hard. The school I went to didn't have a lot of money
and the machine in typing class were at least 20 years old when I
used them. Classic Underwood 5's.
For a secretary whose main job was typing letters, special keyboard
and making the word processing system as close to the old typing
methods was a good move. No retrainging needed.
>> Many people have a hard time adjust to modal editors just because
>> of this. If I press 'i' I either get 'i' on the screen or
>> I'm placed in 'insert' mode if had pressed Escacpe to enter command
>> mode.
>Some indicator that showed which mode you are in would have been a
>help. The lack of things like that in vi is, well, fairly typical of
>programmers.
A good typist NEVER looks at the paper/screen. They keep their eye
fixed upon the notes they are transcribing. My mother typed
between 110 and 120 and wore out parts of electrics that IBM has
said they had never seen worn out before. She was a court-reporter
and legal transcripts [then] took a lot of typing and NO errors and
NO erasures were permitted. If you made a mistake on a page you
retyped it. Anyone from that era would never look at a keyboard
to see whats on the screen.
>> vi being modal means you never have to remove you keys from the
>> keyboard - and that is one argument I hear against vi. Modal
>> editors are almost a natural fit for programmers, and go against
>> everything a person has ever learned if they came from the
>> typewriter school way of thinking.
>
>I am not so sure about that. I went to a typewriter school, and I was
>downright furious when the cursor key pad was introduced. Much better
>to have a scheme where you did not have to take your hands off the home
>rows. I am sure plenty of other touch typists felt the same way.
Cursor key or numeric keypad. I have cursor keys here. In an
inverted T formation. Above that the typical 6 key set of insert,
delete, etc. But I see NO keypad. I touch type on numbers and
I use the hjkl or the cursor keys interchangeable. Most of the
time I used the page-up and page down as it's quicker than the
control-F control-B etc sequence. I finally adapted to the
mis-placed control key - so now if I get on what used to be a 'real
keyboard' with control key next to the A key - I get lost. I'd
probably still use the control key paging sequnece if control
weren't all the way donw on the left corner. Friend have told me
"but you can remap the keyboard", but I can't do that for customer
sites, so I learned to go with the broken keyboard.
>On the old telex machines we had three bars where the space bar is:
> +--------------------+ +--------------------+ +--------------------+
> | Letters | | Space | | Signs and numbers |
> +--------------------+ +--------------------+ +--------------------+
I'll have to look at that keyboard the next time I see a Telex
machine. One is in the front of a place I do some work. They put
it in place when most people were removing them as they found it
was easier to communicate with their European customers that way.
They just took it out of service in the last 5 or 6 years.
>I believe the Alt key was not invented at that time, but never
>mind the names. It was natural for us to want a keyboard where you
>would press Alt-left with your left thumb while doing commands
>with your right hand fingers and vice versa for right thumb/left
>hand fingers. This would give you a rich command set that did not
>conflict with the principles of touch typing.
Yup. Alt keys came around when keyboard started putting 'smarts'
inside the keyboard and a down-key generated a different code than
an up-key. If you've ever looked at the schematics of an old
terminal all the control key does is force the top 3 bits to
ground. Simple and to the point.
I remeber on some old pre-PC home computers that SW people who
didn't understand this would generate a Control-A by subtracting
64 from the result. Of course if you typed control-a, that gave
you a different result. That gave you !. I also new one
globaly known games programmer of the late '70s who was totally
amazed when I told him that control- whatever was <somenumber>
He had memorized one or two keys - like 7 being control G - but he
never realized that control-A is 1 and control-Z is 26, in
alphabetical order. He'd probably never looked at a chart. Before
he went under in the '80s he had offices in the US and England.
>The old control key to the left of A, on the other hand, can only be
>used with right hand commands if you want to stick to the principles of
>touch typing. The command sets of Emacs or WordStar with its ^A, ^E,
>etc. are crazy and anti-ergonomic as far as I am concerned. And the
>same holds for the Microsoft buffer commands: ^Z, ^X, ^C, ^V.
I hated the WordStar command set. You have to scrunch up your
hands for that and the MS.
>The control key may have been the only way to get things done on
>earlier keyboards. Today it lives on mainly due to conservatism.
>Besides, this key has MOVED... but Unix programmers have not yet
>noticed.
It lives on because lots of things still depend upon it.
May systems with small ROM embeded montiors use a VT100 interface
and the control key is essential. I can surely program a Cisco
router more quickly with the Vt100 interface than I can with the
web tool. Other keys have been added. No reason to take away
something that is still used. The lowerer ASCII characters are
still heavily used in the communcations side and it makes sense to
be able to get to them from the keyboard.
Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:55:27 GMT
In article <2uoX5.15027$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> The ATX power _switch_, on the other hand, is counter-intuitive.
>> How do you switch OFF the computer? Is that really OFF (i.e.
>> disconnected from the main sockets electrically)?
>I'm not familiar with the ATX.
ATX is a board form factor. ATX power supplies are normally not
really off. There is a trickle so that the system 'goes to sleep'
with minimal power until you press a keyboard, it is accessed via a
network [wake on LAN feature] or a modem dial in [wake on Modem].
The latter two typically have a jumper so that the Lan card or the
modem tickles the computer, the power supply and computer fires up
in full mode. It's an always-on system but in doze mode power
consumption is very low. In the single digit percentage ranges.
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:52:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 5 Dec 2000 23:42:45 GMT, Steve Mading
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Forget about any GUI based editors. Vi is counter-intuitive when
>presented in its natural environment. It would be counter-intuitive
>to any person who has had frequent exposure to a command prompt. Your
>average Unix user is an example of this.
Well I'm not an average anything. I have frequent exposure to the
command prompt [95% of the time probably]. I use the vi
commands for command line editing in ksh. I just don't like to
move my hands off the keyboard. I'm LAZY.
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
------------------------------
From: WorLord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:24:17 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
>http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/demos/Demo/Mandrake7.2/Install/Expert/pages
>/expert6.php3
>> shows a screenshot of the *exact* stage in the install, in fact.
>Yup, but guess what? I checked that during install, and when I booted up
>DMA was not enabled, and only 16 bit I/O was was enabled. I had to manually
>change this and install it into the startup. All this seems to do is setup
>the boot options to ide0=autotune, which did absolutely no tuning on my
>system.
Then maybe you should write mandrake with the problem. It's worked
for me 20 times over.
>I never told it to not install it, and I told it to install 100% of
>everything.
See other message.
>No, the X drivers for my card don't work for me, I can only use generic
>SVGA.
Can't help you here... I haven't had a Tseng labs card since 1M video
adapters were "hot".
>You may be posting to such a newsgroup, but it's not being read by me and
>others in that newsgroup.
Then I ask you, AGAIN, to Trim This Group From Your Posts, or realize
that I'm only going to answer questions on Mandrake in this NG.
--WorLord
"You could spend an hour counting the petals in a flower
It might take you a year to count the veins in each petal
If you spent ten lifetimes, maybe you could count its cells...
...but you'd have completely missed the point
You fuckhead."
------------------------------
From: Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: 06 Dec 2000 17:28:29 +0000
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Yup, but guess what? I checked that during install, and when I booted up
> DMA was not enabled, and only 16 bit I/O was was enabled. I had to manually
> change this and install it into the startup. All this seems to do is setup
> the boot options to ide0=autotune, which did absolutely no tuning on my
> system.
I could well be wrong here, but i think that if it detects a board it
dont like (thinks its a buggy chipset) it turns that option off anyway.
> I never told it to not install it, and I told it to install 100% of
> everything.
Unfortuantly in mandrake that dont mean anything.. Do a 100% install
on server ,and you will notice its smaller than a 100% install on
developer.. The only way to get a true 100% install is to go thru and
click all the packages.. Pain, broken installer? but true..
> You may be posting to such a newsgroup, but it's not being read by me and
> others in that newsgroup. Look at the distribution list.
Why is is cross posted so much? is that nesseasary? That certainly
equates to trolling.. Follow ups set to alt.os.linux.mandrake (as thie
is the distro we seem to be talkin to most about)...
Pete
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:33:48 GMT
On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 11:45:45 -0500, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Is this you trying to be reasonable and jovial, you lying sack of shit?
How did you get out of my kill file? Must have the expire feature set.
I've saved hours of bandwidth by kill filing your senseless posts.
Back in the bozo bin with you.
claire
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:34:39 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> : Bill Vermillion writes:
>
> :>> Steve Mading writes:
>
> :>>> Vi's only crime here is being unique.
>
> :>> Uniqueness breeds non-intuitiveness. I haven't said whether that is
> :>> good or bad.
>
> :> vi was good. Having the ability to see all the lines on the screen
> :> instead of one line, and being able to move onto a word to delete
> :> it instead of .s/old-word/new-word/ was so much better.
>
> : The "good" thus comes from being a screen editor, not from using hjkl
> : for cursor movement.
>
> I would disagree strongly. Using the typewriter keys (like hjkl) is
> much, much faster than losing the home-row placement of your fingers
> to go hit the arrow keys, or the 'ins/home/end.etc...' keys, or to
> move the mouse. Although it is different than other editors, it's
> the feature that makes it very fast. I realize that this was not
> due to some major plan or anything - it was an accidental side effect
> of the lack of those special keys back in the days when vi was being
> first developed. But it's a GOOD side effect.
Which is why vi *IS* my favorite editor.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: 6 Dec 2000 17:36:52 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9feX5.4904$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <mt6X5.2408$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:eXVW5.4689$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> In article <a3EW5.9418$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> <snip my post>
>> >> >
>> >> > Or you can just get a real OS with a real windowing and display
>> >> > system that support advanced font rendering, color correction,
>> >> > aliasing or anti-, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Chad
>> >> It infuriates me when I try to help a person and I receive a slap in
>> >> the face for it. You sir, disgust me.
>> >
>> > You weren't helping me. It appeared that someone was cracking on Linux's
>> > poor display system and you, perhaps naievly, begain detailing the
>> > laborious process of attempting to get Linux to be a modern
>> > display-oriented OS.
>> >
>> > If you were sincerely trying to help him, then I apologize. However, if
>> > you were really trying to help him get a better display, you would've
>> > told him to get a Mac or a Windows PC because Linux is years from having
>> > a serious system for professional display and color correction.
>> >
>> > -Chad
>> Please don't put thought into my head. I am not one to question why he
>> was using linux. Maybe he likes being able to hack around with the
>> kernel. But, it is neither my position, nor yours, to claim he is making
>> a mistake. The choice of what OS to use is an intimate one - one you will
>> have to deal with every second the computer is used. If I demanded you
>> always buy a chevrolet instead of a ford because a chevrolet is
>> "technically superior", you'd probably chose to ignore me.
>> Personal computers are called such for a reason, you know.
> You can BS and wax philosophical all you want, but what it really comes down
> to is, if you want to have a decent, professional display and control over it,
> Linux would be the last choice.
That isnt true at all. Linux would be somewhere in the middle, probably right
below windows. IRIX would be first, MacOS second. Anyone who has done any
kind of meaningful graphics work will tell you that.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:51:02 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On 5 Dec 2000 23:42:45 GMT, Steve Mading
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >(To tholen)
> >
> >Okay we agree, it seems, that intuativeness is purely relative
> >to what is already known. In the case of Vi, it only appears
> >unintuative if you are used to some other editor first. This I
> >agree with. What you don't seem to get is that it works the
>
> In order to launch vi you hit the 'v' key and then the 'i' key. The
> result is that you see a 'v' appear on the screen, the cursor moves
> one space to the right, followed by an 'i' appearing and the cursor
> giving a repeat performance.
>
> Try doing the same thing a second later after vi has been launched.
> It doesn't work.
>
> Forget about any GUI based editors. Vi is counter-intuitive when
> presented in its natural environment. It would be counter-intuitive
Actually not.
At the time that vi was written, a great many screen-oriented
programs were "command-mode" like that.
> to any person who has had frequent exposure to a command prompt. Your
> average Unix user is an example of this.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
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