Linux-Advocacy Digest #773, Volume #30 Sat, 9 Dec 00 20:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Caifornia power shortage... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT (Pan)
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT (mlw)
Re: Microsoft using Linux ("Adam Warner")
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Uptimes strike back ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux lacks ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Marty)
Re: Microsoft using Linux ("mmnnoo")
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windows review ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Uptimes (sfcybear)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Caifornia power shortage...
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:45:52 -0500
Static66 wrote:
>
> On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:00:19 -0500, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Russ Lyttle wrote:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Steve Mading writes:
> >> >
> >> > >>>> Not exactly uncommon. When my VCR is "off", it's still on by
> >> > >>>> enough to keep a clock running and monitor its programming to
> >> > >>>> determine whether to turn "on" (or should I say "more on") and
> >> > >>>> record a program. Doesn't make the power switch any less
> >> > >>>> intuitive.
> >> >
> >> > >>> Actually, I would say that that sort of power switch is highly
> >> > >>> unintuitive. Intuitively, you'd expect that turning something
> >> > >>> off would, you know, actually turn it off.
> >> >
> >> > >> Depends on what you consider "off" to be. When you turn your
> >> > >> microwave oven off, do you expect it to lose the time? (Yes,
> >> > >> that does presuppose an oven with a clock on the display.
> >> > >> Are there any new models that don't have one of those built in?)
> >> >
> >> > > I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
> >> >
> >> > Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
> >> >
> >> > > If they had them, then yeah, I'd expect them to at least turn
> >> > > the display off, and go down to a trickle that only serves
> >> > > to maintain a few K of RAM (for the clock and maybe some programs)
> >> > > (which takes very little power, as evidenced by calculators and
> >> > > watches, and could be done by battery like it is for CMOS
> >> > > settings on computers.)
> >> >
> >> > Even with the display on, it could still be a trickle.
> >>
> >> All this "unintuitive" behavior of power switches is causing a major
> >> problem in California. The issue of all these devices still drawing
> >> power is keeping a load on the system that it wasn't designed to handle.
> >> That coupled with lack of new power generation in California is putting
> >> a strain on the system now, promising a major breakdown in the near
> >> future. Relying to much on intuition and not enough on reason is going
> >> to get a lot of people killed.
> >
> >Actually, the REAL problem is that the ECO-NUTS in California shut
> >down practically every fission power project that came down the pike
> >in the 1970's.
> >
> >If those plants had been built, a lot of oil-fired and coal-fired
> >plants would have been taken off-line a long time ago AND Cali.
> >would STILL have surplus capacity.
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Russ Lyttle, PE
> >> <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> >> Not Powered by ActiveX
>
> I read that they haven't built a power plant in over 15 years, yet in
> that same time the population of california has basically
> doubled...piss poor government planning..
Consumers held hostage by communists in eco-freak clothing.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:49:39 -0500
Pan wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > de facto standard tools? Why limit yourself to that? If cost is your only
> > issue, rather than performance or compatibility then use whatever tools fit
> > your needs.
>
> Who said cost was the only issue? Performance is also important. So is
> development time. I'll happily pit the linux system I described, on the
> same hardware, with the WinSystem I described on all 3 counts.
LoseSystem
>
> As to why I chose not to use the gnu tools on win. If you have tried
Lose*
> any of them, then you know that most of the free cli tools you were
> describing perform poorly on nt when compared to their performance on
Neutered Technology
> linux. Even worse, by comparison than the tools which cost $10000+ in
> terms of licensing.
>
> > Why do you need Visual Studio?
>
> Our hypothetical company in this case anticipates that our Windevelopers
Losedevelopers
> will have an easier time writing SeQueL applications with VB than with
> languages that are not part of the M$ family or part of the MCS*
> training that they spent another $10,000 acquiring. Since we are taking
> M$'s propaganda at face value, we anticipate that they will have an
> easier time integrating exchange, sequel, and iis with each other than
> we would have integrating any of the above with the open source tools
> you described. We also anticipate that M$ proprietary languages will be
> better suited for use in developing a M$ proprietary database. Since we
> already have experience with PostGres, sendmail, apache, perl, and php,
> we already know how easily they are integrated with each other on linux.
>
> > > Linux $9.99 ( incl. $5.00 shipping )
> > > M$: $10154.00
>
> > > Now, take both server systems and run each on a single processor
> > > machine. Which one do you think would perform the best?
> >
> > Depends on how your using it.
>
> In this case, we'll be using it in a production environment with "real"
> data. I guess that *should* take W2K out of the picture even if the
Lose2K
> licensing cost wasn't over 1000x more expensive than a server with the
> same functionality running linux.
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://salvador.venice.ca.us
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:55:16 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for correcting the typos. :)
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Pan wrote:
> >
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
...snippage...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:54:06 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > 3. Database PostGreSQL $0.00 SeQueL $4,999 + $499/developer system
>
> MySQL exists for NT, free of course.
PostgreSQL is a far far better database than MySQL, which is at best a
toy.
>
> > 4. HTTP Apache $0.00 iis $ 0.00 *included in w2k.
> > 5. programming tools *see below$0.00 VisStudio$2158 = $1079 / license
>
> Why do you need Visual Studio? That includes tools you don't need, like
> Visual FoxPro. Besides, gcc and other tools are available free as well.
The integration between gcc and other Windows technologies is not the
best. This is not because gcc is not great, but because MS has no
interest in letting 3rd party development applications work. Remember
Borland? a great environment.
>
> > * perl, gcc, python, php, java.
>
> All available for NT as well, free of charge.
>
> > Totals w/o Hardware:
> >
> > Linux $9.99 ( incl. $5.00 shipping )
> > M$: $10154.00
>
> Linux: $9.99
> MS: $1,199.
>
> > Now, take both server systems and run each on a single processor
> > machine. Which one do you think would perform the best?
>
> Depends on how your using it.
>
> > As a developer, would you rather have your company spending $10000 on
> > licensing or would you rather have them spend that money, even half of
> > that money on additional salary for their development team?
>
> Oooh.. that $600 will go a long way.
$600? I get 1189.01, you must be using a Windows calculator.
An $1186 is a big chunk of change if you are creating a business
solution as a VAR.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft using Linux
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:55:34 +1200
Hi Charlie,
The article has an interesting slant but it appears to be misguided.
For example:
"The irony here is that Microsoft can wait until the money-losing Linux
companies finally perfect their upstart open-source operating system.
That would let Microsoft leverage -- some would say hijack --
every bit of the costly research and development done to date by the
open-source software movement. Most Linux developers would
probably be aghast at the notion that Microsoft will eventually be
selling what they created. But the company has left more than a few
would-be competitors aghast in the past."
If Microsoft wants to pour funds into developing GNU/Linux then fantastic.
The open source community can build upon all the GPLed software they create
and leverage it for their own use as well.
And statements like: "Most Linux developers would probably be aghast at the
notion that Microsoft will eventually be selling what they created" are just
misinformed. I'm sure MOST Linux developers are actually aware of what an
open source license means. It would be very hard to hijack GPLed software.
Sure you can hijack software licensed under the BSD license (because you
can't force the person making "improvements" to freely release the source
code) but thankfully the Linux kernel and a lot of the core software is
GPLed.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:08:10 -0600
"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90ue8n$2f1mi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> 1. OS RH7.0 $8.99 W2K $1,199
> >
> >Linux: $9.99
> >MS: $1,199.
> >
> >Oooh.. that $600 will go a long way.
>
> You must be using ms calculator again - lets see, normal calculator
> $1,199-$9.99=$1,189.01 - ms calculator $1,199-$9.99=$600 and
> the extra money just ceases to exist because that nice mr gates said
> it has.
Either your reading comprehension is completely faulty, or you're
deliberately being decitful.
Here's the original argument I replied to with the statement about $600.
> As a developer, would you rather have your company spending $10000 on
> licensing or would you rather have them spend that money, even half of
> that money on additional salary for their development team?
Note the use of the words "even half of that money". $1,189.01 / 2 equals
$594.50, or roughly $600.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Uptimes strike back
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:04:30 -0600
"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90uf4f$1v4sd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >He also said the kernel prevented fragmentation.
>
> He said the kernel prevented memory fragmentation
> not disk fragmentation.
No, read it again. He said "Diskspace" is managed by the kernel (not
memory) to prevent fragmentation from occuring in the first place.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:02:57 -0500
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> > "Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> > >
> > > 5 years ago I might have agreed with you. But the simple fact is... I
> > > haven't liked any of the last five COTS games I've bought. They're kind
> > > of like Windows and recent excuses for Sci Fi movies: all glitz and
> > > techno-flash, but no substance. So I play FreeCiv now and then, and I'm
> > > tinkering away on a game of my own ("if you want it done right, ..."),
> >
> > Did you ever play any board wargames?
>
> Yeah, did that before I ever started doing computers.
I'm thinking of a generic wargame "engine" where each component
of the game is a seperate process...
thus, to make new types of units, you merely program it's capabilities
as a stand-alone program.
And then let them all interact with each other
>
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:02:35 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Joe Malloy wrote:
> >
> > The Tholen tholes:
> >
> > > > I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
> > >
> > > Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
> >
> > Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
> > point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
> > an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
> > consistency list now!
>
> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
Has he really been at it for TWELVE YEARS?!
------------------------------
From: "mmnnoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft using Linux
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:08:56 GMT
I just think the article is wrong. I think a much more likely
scenario is microsoft giving away Windows (in binary form
only), and playing up the monetary aspect of freeness. I
think microsoft knows they dominate applications because
they dominate the platform. Without that, all they would
have going for them is tons of money, great name recognition,
the most talented pool of developers of its size in the world,
and a huge installed base - and even all that would be
a step down for them, because it isn't enough to win
_all_ the time, like they do now.
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Interesting article covering Microsoft's possible
> use of Linux in the near future and their
> discontinuance of Windows.
>
> http://www.cnbc.com/news/001208plotkin.html
>
> I suspect we will see more of these in the
> near future.
>
> But I wasn't shocked to hear him say what
> I've predicted would happen for 3 years
> now.
>
> Charlie
>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:15:10 -0600
"Pan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > de facto standard tools? Why limit yourself to that? If cost is your
only
> > issue, rather than performance or compatibility then use whatever tools
fit
> > your needs.
>
> Who said cost was the only issue? Performance is also important. So is
> development time. I'll happily pit the linux system I described, on the
> same hardware, with the WinSystem I described on all 3 counts.
The title of this thread is "Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT". Seems
like it's all about cost to me.
Even so, your argument makes no sense. The same tools are available for NT
that are available for Linux. Development time will be the same if you're
using the same tools on both platforms. Performance I'll address below.
> As to why I chose not to use the gnu tools on win. If you have tried
> any of them, then you know that most of the free cli tools you were
> describing perform poorly on nt when compared to their performance on
> linux. Even worse, by comparison than the tools which cost $10000+ in
> terms of licensing.
Funny, GCC performs faster under NT than it does when I reboot to Linux.
IIS is faster than Apache (which you used in your argument. There are
faster servers available for Linux, but your argument specifically uses
Apache).
> > Why do you need Visual Studio?
>
> Our hypothetical company in this case anticipates that our Windevelopers
> will have an easier time writing SeQueL applications with VB than with
> languages that are not part of the M$ family or part of the MCS*
> training that they spent another $10,000 acquiring. Since we are taking
> M$'s propaganda at face value, we anticipate that they will have an
> easier time integrating exchange, sequel, and iis with each other than
> we would have integrating any of the above with the open source tools
> you described. We also anticipate that M$ proprietary languages will be
> better suited for use in developing a M$ proprietary database. Since we
> already have experience with PostGres, sendmail, apache, perl, and php,
> we already know how easily they are integrated with each other on linux.
This is a bullshit argument. They work the same way under NT, so any
arguments about ease of development under Linux is equally applicable to the
same tools under NT.
> > > Linux $9.99 ( incl. $5.00 shipping )
> > > M$: $10154.00
>
> > > Now, take both server systems and run each on a single processor
> > > machine. Which one do you think would perform the best?
> >
> > Depends on how your using it.
>
> In this case, we'll be using it in a production environment with "real"
> data. I guess that *should* take W2K out of the picture even if the
> licensing cost wasn't over 1000x more expensive than a server with the
> same functionality running linux.
You still didn't say how you're using it. Dynamic content? Static? How
many tables? How many indexes? Benchmarks prove that how you use the tools
effects performance more than the tools themselves.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:13:02 -0500
Adam Schuetze wrote:
>
> On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:38:22 GMT, Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, if you're a GUI user, your mouse is usually conveniently placed
> > > instead of stuck behind the monitor under a pile of magazines; if it takes
> > > you more than about a quarter second to go from keyboard to mouse - or
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > back - you should probably see an ergonomics consultant.
> >
> > Now you know why many programmers prefer vi or emacs.
>
> It's this VERY thing that annoys me about gui's. I am a touch
> typist, so if I am doing any work with a gui, I'm always going
> back and forth between mouse and keyboard. It's bad ergonomicly
> (sp), and it's just plain annoying. Thats why I use vi.
> Everything is there. No mouse required.
>
> By the way, this brings up an interesting discussion about vi vs
> emacs... heheheheh. I used to use emacs, but the control-<key>
> commands were bothersome, because the control key sits at the
> bottom left of my keyboard. It is a strain on the wrist to do
> long term work with this.
>
> I tried finding a different keyboard, but no luck. I've heard
> about a "happy hacking" keyboard, thats supposed to have a sun-3
> layout, but I haven't got one yet.
Actually, it has a layout similar to the LSI adm3, adm5, adm5a, adm5+ series.
EXCELLANT keyboard for both vi AND emacs.
Escape key is in reach of the pinky finger (left of the numeric "1" key),
and ctrl is to the immediate left of "a".
>
> Is there any way to change it, so
> that a different key is used rather than <ctrl>? Thats the main
> reason I swiched to vi, because I can do everything from touch
> type position.
>
> --
> Adam Schuetze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Get my pgp keys at http://www.adam-schuetze.org
>
> - pgp fingerprints -
> rsa: B8 80 DA D6 BB CA 80 5F C5 68 1C 08 FE 3E 65 1C
> dss: 46 CB B3 C3 A1 C9 BA 57 7C B4 A1 6A BF 8F 2D 95 2B 7A 1D 77
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:17:47 -0600
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > > 3. Database PostGreSQL $0.00 SeQueL $4,999 + $499/developer system
> >
> > MySQL exists for NT, free of course.
>
> PostgreSQL is a far far better database than MySQL, which is at best a
> toy.
Actually, that's a hotly debated argumented in the free database market. I
think both sides have provided benchmarks that make the other look bad.
> > > 4. HTTP Apache $0.00 iis $ 0.00 *included in w2k.
> > > 5. programming tools *see below$0.00 VisStudio$2158 = $1079 /
license
> >
> > Why do you need Visual Studio? That includes tools you don't need, like
> > Visual FoxPro. Besides, gcc and other tools are available free as well.
>
> The integration between gcc and other Windows technologies is not the
> best. This is not because gcc is not great, but because MS has no
> interest in letting 3rd party development applications work. Remember
> Borland? a great environment.
What "integration" are you talking about exactly?
> > > As a developer, would you rather have your company spending $10000 on
> > > licensing or would you rather have them spend that money, even half of
> > > that money on additional salary for their development team?
> >
> > Oooh.. that $600 will go a long way.
>
> $600? I get 1189.01, you must be using a Windows calculator.
Why the hell can't anyone *READ*? It says quite specifically in the quoted
text "even half of that money".
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:08:01 GMT
In article <cjyY5.4112$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:90uad3$4ij$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <hIxY5.4106$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:90tn0v$m2i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > In article <90tkmm$2o9g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > "Adam Ruth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > A good formula except for the minor fact that T is a random
> > figure
> > > > > generated
> > > > > > by some obscure process that no-one seems to be able to even
> > > > hypothesize
> > > > > and
> > > > > > N has been shown to be inaccurate as it actually counts
domain
> > names
> > > > not
> > > > > > actual systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you say is true for Netcraft numbers. The numbers,
however,
> > are
> > > > from
> > > > > www.uptimes.net.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Glad to hear you're finally admitting the netcraft numbers are
bogus.
> >
> > Read the posts! THe uptime numbers SUPPORT the netcraft numbers is
> > showing that W2K is unstable!
>
> I did read the post.
>
> Adam Ruth said:
>
> > What you say is true for Netcraft numbers. The numbers, however,
> > are from www.uptimes.net.
>
> And you responded with:
>
> "Thank you."
>
Yep, he showed that Chad did not know what he was talking about. I
thought the statement was "The numbers may..." Any way, the error I made
is VERY slight compared to the Error chad made.
Number of independant sources with numbers that support the claim that
W2K is unstable? 2, Number of sources with numbers that support the
claim that W2K is stable? 0.
Number of methods used to get the numbers that are used to support the
claim the W2K is unstable? 2.
So, 2 sets of numbers, gathered by different methods, indicate that W2K
is unstable! What proof do you have that is comperable to this that
shows W2K stable? That silly thing you tried with the IP history of
netcraft? What evidance do you have that the numbers are wrong? Chad's
statement `I don't know how they do it so it is impossible`?
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
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