Linux-Advocacy Digest #894, Volume #30 Fri, 15 Dec 00 01:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Voting (was: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks) (Craig Kelley)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Voting (was: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks) (Craig Kelley)
Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux! (Craig Kelley)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (OT) (humor) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux! (kiwiunixman)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Corel to pull out of Linux (Craig Kelley)
Re: Corel to pull out of Linux (r@r)
Re: Corel to pull out of Linux (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Corel to pull out of Linux ("Bracy")
Re: Linux is awful (almost as bad as M$-Windows) ("Rich C")
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. ("Bracy")
Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED.... ("Rich C")
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Voting (was: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks)
Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:00:15 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> >They discovered their error and then tried to foist their claim that
> >the ballot was "confusing", when in reality, the voters were given bad
> >instructions by party leaders. Similar problems happened elsewhere in
> >the state when voters were told to "vote on every page", which caused
> >double-voting for president.
>
> Well they did a psychological study in Canada a few weeks ago, where a group
> of people were given two sets of forms, one identical to the ones used in
> Florida (except for the things they were voting on) and one with the
> candidates in one long list. They then asked which selection the people wanted
> to choose and which they actually did. With the Florida-style ballot there
> were lots of mistakes, with the straightforward list ballot there were none.
>
> This is surprisingly easy to understand really. Voting booths are pretty high
> pressure environments, your pretty much pushed in, vote quick in unusual
> surroundings, and then get shown the door. If people were sitting down and
> voting using those ballots in their own front rooms, I expect the result
> would be very different (i.e. fewer if any mistakes).
How about this:
A computer with a touch screen displays each race on one screen,
perhaps with pictures and names. A voter can point to the candidated
they want (and candidates are in a random order to avoid confusion).
They could point to an information button and read in-detail wording
about initiatives and even common-language interpretations.
After they are done, they submit their ballot, which is printed out on
paper. They can review the ballot and then, if they are satisfied,
enter it into the voting box. If they do not like the paper ballot,
they can return to the computer and vote again.
This should give us the accuracy of computers while at the same time
alleving fears about technology.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:21:45 GMT
Marty writes:
>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>>>> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>>>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano
>>>>>> gods.
>>>>> No need to anger them.
>>>> Superstitious, Marty?
>>> Take that up with Aaron.
>> You're the one who thinks they can be angered, Marty.
> Do you know of any volcano-based deities which can't be angered?
I don't know of any volcano-based deities that exist, Marty.
Just more evidence that you are still playing your "infantile game".
Enjoying the absurdity, Marty? I can make it even more absurd, if
that's what you want.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Voting (was: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks)
Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:04:37 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
> On 14 Dec 2000 10:07:00 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> >They discovered their error and then tried to foist their claim that
> >the ballot was "confusing", when in reality, the voters were given bad
> >instructions by party leaders.
>
> I think if the ballot was clearer, we would have seen much less of this.
Agreed.
> If what you were saying is true, then what about the "bussers" elsewhere ?
> Are you trying to imply that they are only in Florida, or that they only
> gave bad instructions in Florida ?
There were 2 million ballots thrown out nationwide. We will never
know which candidate recieved more votes; we only know that Bush won
in the sampling of electoral votes.
Any statistician will tell you that there was no winner in this
election; everything was *well* within a single standard deviation of
the norm. It was a tie, and there is no way to fairly empower a
president in this situation.
> If the leaders couldn't6 work out how to instruct the voters correctly,
> what does that say about the effectiveness of the ballot design ? This
> would imply that it's not just the illiterate bums who can't work it out,
> even the party leaders were having trouble!
Time for election reform, before it happens again.
> >Should those votes "be counted"? I dunno, I can see both sides of the
>
> I can understand why both sides wanted to gerrymander this election in
> their favour, but I don't think they should be counted.
Agreed.
> Of course, if it wasn't for the way the electoral system worked (with third
> party candidates syphoning off major party votes), Al Gore would have easily
> won Florida.
And Bush Sr. would have trounced Clinton in '92.
Que sera, sera.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux!
Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:07:05 -0700
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:919g33$t46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Even cooler, they've already spent that much already. IBM has 1500
> > > > Linux developers on the payroll now. That's committment.
> > >
> > > Wow... 1500 developers... doing what? They don't seem to have
> contributed
> > > much of anything back into the source pool.
> >
> > DB2?
> >
> > jfs?
> >
> > vajava?
> >
> > md/raid work?
> >
> > kernel patches?
>
> JFS was probably not that much work to port to Linux, since it already ran
> on AIX. And DB2 is most certianly not free. I took "1500 Linux developers"
> to mean 1500 people working on linux, not 1500 people working on code that
> runs on linux.
Under UNIX, the vfs is the heart of the system; any radical design
changes are tweaking the core of the kernel. It's not trivial.
DB2, while not free, is a major undertaking; part of the work on
getting Linux to play with S/390 will be used in DB3 (if they call it
that in the end).
> Even so, 1500 developers should be producing a ton more than this.
Microsoft employs 27,000 people.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus! (OT) (humor)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:26:41 GMT
Marty writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Ogg writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you three should get a room!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Counting problems?
>>>>>>>>>>> See what I mean about his illogic?
>>>>>>>>>> What alleged illogic, Marty?
>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting that a counting problem is an attribute indicative
>>>>>>>>> of being logical?
>>>>>>>> I wasn't suggesting anything, Marty; I was asking a question.
>>>>>>> Then why use the word "alleged"?
>>>>>> Because you alleged illogic on my part, Marty.
>>>>> I see that you are having more reading comprehension problems.
>>>> How ironic.
>>> Ah, so you also see your reading comprehension problem?
>> I see yours, Marty, which is why it's ironic.
> Having vision problems?
Obviously not, Marty.
>>> Progress!
>> Incorrect, Marty, considering your latest miscomprehension.
> You are correct that I spoke too soon, but for the wrong reason.
Where did I allegedly say that you spoke too soon, Marty?
> Perhaps that is progress from your usual standards of being incorrect
> for the wrong reason.
Perhaps not, Marty.
>>>>> Why would I respond to you and refer to you in the third person?
>>>> Why would you claim that the subject in another thread was not one-liners
>>>> when it clearly was, Marty?
>>> Non sequitur.
>> Your erroneous claim was more illogical than non sequitur, Marty.
> You're erroneously presupposing an erroneous claim on my part, Dave.
Incorrect, given that I witnessed for myself your claim about the
alleged subject, Marty.
>>>> Your odd behavior isn't always explainable.
>>> You're erroneously presupposing "odd behavior" on my part.
>> Incorrect, given that you have admitted to playing an "infantile
>> game", Marty.
> Are you suggesting that infants are "odd" by their very nature?
I'm suggesting that your behavior is "odd", Marty. Reading comprehension
problems?
>>> Meanwhile, you've failed to answer the question. Figures.
>> Meanwhile, you still haven't admitted to what the subject really
>> was. Figures.
> On the contrary, I have readily admitted that the subject was about 50
> usages of "Still find it entertaining Sandman?".
And you're readily wrong, Marty.
> Figures that you would ignore this fact.
You're erroneously presupposing that it is a "fact", Marty. The subject
of "science fiction programs like Babylon 5" is "science fiction programs",
not "Babylon 5". The example is not the subject. Thus the subject was
really one-liners. Amazing that you're still trying to defend your
ridiculou notion. Obviously more of your "infantile game".
>>>>>> I see that you still haven't substantiated your claim.
>>>>> I haven't made such a claim in this discussion.
>>>> MA] See what I mean about his illogic?
>>> "His" does not refer to you, as context clearly shows.
>> On what basis do you call your context clear, Marty?
> On the basis that it is easily discernable to those with adequate reading
> comprehension skills.
Evidence, please.
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:09:59 GMT
<snip>
> And Freeway is the first 64-bit S/390 and will have 64-bit Linux support
> with the 2.4 kernel.
>
> Gary
I read some info about the trusty S/390, the first type were 31bit
(don't ask me where they rectum plucked 31 from :) ), and the OS
maintained by IBM and a number of other mainframe vendors, however,
recently one of the partners have discontinued selling S/390 Mainframes
due to the slow growth in that area.
kiwiunixman
--
"Like a midget at a urinal, you gotta keep on your toes"
Naked Gun 33 1/3
"Like a blind man at an orgy, you gotta feel your way out"
Naked Gun 33 1/3
____
Unix Programmer:
"If it an't broken, don't fix it"
Microsoft Programmer:
"If it an't broken and working perfectly, then their must be a problem"
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:11:25 -0700
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Which goes back to the 30 year old structure; Why the hell can't the Linux
> kernel be revamped to support non-compiled resource modules? LIKE DRIVERS.
> Every other platform does.
Modules *are* drivers.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:12:29 GMT
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:52:17 GMT,
kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><snype>
>
>I have used Windows 2000, and when the setup say's it need's to reboot,
>I reboot (just in case). There are software packages that don't need a
>system reboot, however, try to uninstall these packages, and they need a
>reboot. Why isn't their a solution. I can install and uninstall
>StarOffice with out any need to reboot under Linux, compare that to
>installing Office 2000 under Windows 98! what a reboot-a-thon.
>
>kiwiunixman
>
>
>
>--
>"Like a midget at a urinal, you gotta keep on your toes"
>Naked Gun 33 1/3
>
>"Like a blind man at an orgy, you gotta feel your way out"
>Naked Gun 33 1/3
>
Yeah I know. We get into these discusssions here on
Cola with Wintrolls about improved security and how
W2K is just a BIG BOY system! Yet if you attempt
to install virtually any GD thing you still have
to reboot the GD machine!
Doesn't it really make you wonder where these
clowns minds are? Windows is probably the
ONLY system on this planet which forces you
to reboot to install or uninstall just a simple
application.
In Linux the ONLY time you have to reboot is
if you change the kernel.
In HURD you don't even have to do that.
It's funny but there hasn't been a simple
$10 calculator made which isn't more reliable
than Windows.
Think about that.
Even during Windows installs, you end up
rebooting 3 GD times just to get the peice
of shit running.
With Debian you reboot only once after you've
installed the base files and the drivers.
And the only reason they have you do that
is they want you to test your lilo configuration
to see if you go the kernel mapped correctly.
Otherwise you could just go from there.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel to pull out of Linux
Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:15:33 -0700
spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> > I thought I would post this first as nobody else seemed
> > to be interested, not even the Wintrolls.
> >
> > It's of no surprise to me that as soon as Microsoft
> > bought up all the Corel stock, Corel cancell's it's
> > plans to continue on with it's Debian based
> > Corel Office packages for Linux.
>
> Be very glad that they are selling off their Linux division instead of
> putting out products designed to give whoever buys it a bad taste in the
> mouth for Linux <Something that Corel was doing on their own anyhow>.
Amen. I'd rather use Slackware 1.0 than Corel Linux ever again.
WordPerfect wasn't very spectacular either -- I paid $200 for the
suite and haven't used it since installation (StarOffice is much
better, and that's saying a lot).
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: r@r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel to pull out of Linux
Date: 14 Dec 2000 20:34:25 -0800
my understanding is that COREL is only getting out of the
business of making a linux distribution. NOT from developing
linux applications.
This is a big difference (and I think it is a good move
by COREL).
There is more money to be made from Linux applications that
making a linux distro, which we allready have a number of
very good ones on the market.
The money and resources COREL can save on making a linux distro,
she can spend on making linux applications.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Corel to pull out of Linux
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:25:05 GMT
On 14 Dec 2000 20:34:25 -0800,
r@r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>my understanding is that COREL is only getting out of the
>business of making a linux distribution. NOT from developing
>linux applications.
>
>This is a big difference (and I think it is a good move
>by COREL).
>
>There is more money to be made from Linux applications that
>making a linux distro, which we allready have a number of
>very good ones on the market.
>
>The money and resources COREL can save on making a linux distro,
>she can spend on making linux applications.
>
Well good.
I would like to see this happen.
I know there are several people using Corel Linux,
mainly attorneys, who would be hurt by them
withdrawing from the market.
I hope they continue on in this endevor.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Bracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel to pull out of Linux
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:11:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Charlie Ebert"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I thought I would post this first as nobody else seemed to be
> interested, not even the Wintrolls.
>
> It's of no surprise to me that as soon as Microsoft bought up all the
> Corel stock, Corel cancell's it's plans to continue on with it's Debian
> based Corel Office packages for Linux.
Actually, this could be *VERY* good news for Linux.
Corel is trying to sell off their Linux arm, and the reports are that LGP
(who owns interests in HelixCode, Wine, and Gnumatic) are the
frontrunners to purchasing it.
I honestly don't think that Linux would have ever been anything but
second-place to Windows at Corel. Corel needs cash, and fast. They
don't have time to wait for their Linux offerings to rise to the level of
their Windows offerings.
Corel's software will benefit the Linux community far more in the hands
of HelixCode et al than it ever would have in Corel's.
Bracy
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful (almost as bad as M$-Windows)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:35:05 -0500
"James Richard Tyrer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip]
>
> But, if they were built to standards, they would still be useful till they
wore
> out. Is this Micro$oft's plan.
>
> Planed obsolescence??
It's a stroke of genius on MS's part. After all, what will happen when
Willard Windows-user tries another OS? Their printer, scanner, and modem
will no longer work. Locks in the user pretty well, if you ask me.
--
Rich C.
"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."
>
> JRT
>
------------------------------
From: "Bracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:24:15 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joel Barnett wrote:
>
>> I have a dual boot pc at home - W95/Linux(Mandrake). The only reason I
>> have W95 is for PCAnywhere dialup access to my W2k pc at work. If
>> there's a Linux app that can do the same thing, I can free up some hdd
>> space on my home pc
>> ;).
>>
>> jbarntt
There *is* an app that can do the same thing: VNC. Depending on the
distribution you have, you may already have it installed. There's a
version for Linux, Win9x/NT/2000, Solaris, and even a beta for Mac.
You can get it here:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/download.html
Bracy
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED....
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:47:43 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
me.com...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:33:01 -0500, Ken Klavonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >>
> >> Seems like people are having trouble naming ONE THING
> >> Microsoft invented.
[snip]
> or MS bob to make a PC completely worthless.
Nope, sorry. Packard Smell has a lock on that with their useless Navigator
program. Not only does it make the computer worthless, but it ties up
copious amounts of disk space in the process.
[snip stuff that MS DID invent]
--
Rich C.
"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:56:05 GMT
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:29:41 GMT, Kyle Jacobs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The USB layer under Linux doesn't support full soft-enumeration of the
>devices under the BUS in perputiaty. WHICH IS THE POINT OF USB!
>
>You plug in a USB device, great. Can Linux identify it, yes. Can it
>support it? No. Can it support it through a simple, modular HID layer
>change? NO.
Yes it can, see bellow
>Can it support it without recompiling the kernel? Probably
>not.
Probably not you say but, actually that's the way: compiling modules
as a separate peace of software which kernel will load when it needs
(press M when selecting desired support in 'make menuconfig'), or
building Linux with embedded modules (press Y when selecting desired
support in 'make menuconfig') to get a kernel with all desired support
in just one peace of Linux kernel software (recommended for newbies).
Get a stable kernel 2.2.18 http://www.kernel.org/pub/mirrors
Type: tar Ixvf /usr/src/linux-2.2.18.tar.bz2
or
tar zxvf linux-2.2.18.tar.gz
cd linux
make menuconfig
scroll down to [USB support --->], and hit [Enter]
USB is a new bus in linux kernel like everywhere else.
< > Support for USB (press Y),
[ ] USB verbose debug messages (NEW)
--- Miscellaneous USB options
[ ] Preliminary USB device filesystem (NEW)
[ ] Support for hot-pluggable USB devices (press Y),
Say Y here if you want to plug devices into your computer while
the system is running, and be able to use them quickly. In many
cases, the devices can likewise be unplugged at any time too.
zEnable this with KMOD, and your kernel will automatically
call out to a user mode "policy agent" to load drivers and
other modules needed to use USB devices you plug in.
--- USB Controllers
< > UHCI (Intel PIIX4, VIA, ...) support (NEW)
< > UHCI Alternate Driver (JE) support (NEW)
< > OHCI (Compaq, iMacs, OPTi, SiS, ALi, ...)
--- USB Devices
< > USB Printer support (NEW)
< > USB Scanner support (NEW)
< > USB Modem (CDC ACM) support (NEW)
< > USB Serial Converter support (NEW)
< > USB Kodak DC-2xx Camera support (NEW)
< > DABUSB driver (NEW)
< > Kawasaki USB-ethernet controller (NEW)
--- USB HID
< > USB Human Interface Device (HID) support (NEW)
< > USB HIDBP Keyboard support (NEW)
< > USB HIDBP Mouse support (NEW)
< > Wacom Intuos/Graphire tablet support (NEW)
< > Logitech WingMan Force joystick support
< > Keyboard support (NEW)
< > Mouse support (NEW)
< > Joystick support (NEW)
< > Event interface support (NEW)
They carrie a text file in linux/Documentation and
linux/Documentation/usb whith a lists of supported devices.
Selecting any of these and pressing '?' invokes a short Help;
let's see what it says for
[ ] Support for hot-pluggable USB device:
"Say Y here if you want to plug devices into your computer while
the system is running, and be able to use them quickly. In many
cases, the devices can likewise be unplugged at any time too.
Enable this with KMOD, and your kernel will automatically
call out to a user mode "policy agent" to load drivers and
other modules needed to use USB devices you plug in."
And let's see what it says for < > USB Scanner support:
"Say Y here if you want to connect a USB scanner to your computer's
USB port. Please read Documentation/usb/scanner.txt and
Documentation/usb/scanner-hp-sane.txt for more information.
This code is also available as a module ( = code which can be
inserted in and removed from the running kernel whenever you want).
The module will be called scanner.o. If you want to compile it
as a module, say M here and read Documentation/modules.txt."
So build it into a kernel or build a separate module, you have a
choice.
------------------------------
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