Linux-Advocacy Digest #4, Volume #31 Thu, 21 Dec 00 10:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius (Nick Condon)
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! (A transfinite number of
monkeys)
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Nick Condon)
Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED.... (Stuart Fox)
Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!) (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Re: Linux is free. (mlw)
Re: Windows Stability ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!) (mlw)
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! (jtnews)
Re: Since this is an Advocacy.... ("Martigan")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Reds, Yellows, and Other Bitter Pills (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Since this is an Advocacy.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:27:46 +0000
"Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > Think about all the companies he has ruined with dirty tricks. Think
> > about the workers and investors that have lost billions because of his
> > anti-competitive behavior. Think about all the lost productivity from
> > his crappy software.
>
> Name one incident where the respondent didn't leave the table rich.
Stac Electronics.
Microsoft wanted to license Stac's stuff for disk compression for whatever the
final version of DOS was (6.0?). The deal fell apart because of Stac's
insistence on a per-seat deal. Microsoft when ahead and used their technology
anyway.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:36:00 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 04:18:01 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:
: And add in the cost of the other 4 pieces of hardware that don't work
: with Linux that are now effectively boat anchors.
If you're so concerned about your hardware not working under Linux, either
read the HCL's, just like you would if you were buying hardware to run with
NT. Alternatively, just stop being a stupid consumer, and start being an
intelligent one, really. Do you buy hardware because it has "pretty blinky
lights", or because it "does what I want it to do"?
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:33:59 +0000
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > AFAIK, none of MS major products was finished in time, all of them
> slipped
> > > past their deadlines.
> > > Win2K was no exception in this matter.
> > > Linux used to follow "release early & often" paradigm, the 2.4 kernel is
> a
> > > big exception.
> > > Linus should put his foot down and say, that is enough, nothing gets in
> > > anymore, now we fix the bugs, and then we release, the rest can *wait*
> for
> > > 2.5 or 2.6 kernel.
> > >
> >
> > He already did. Only bugs are being fixed now, no new function. The
> current
> > 2.4 kernel is in very good shape.
>
> That is still over a year overdue.
> Why did he abandoned the "release early & often" paradigm?
There hasn't been any change in Linus' methodology. The development tree
releases early and often, the stable tree has always been focused on
completeness. We practically had to rip the 1.0 kernel from his hands.
------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED....
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:26:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Seems like people are having trouble naming ONE THING
> Microsoft invented.
>
> So I'll try it again on it's OWN THREAD.
>
> Name one thing, just one thing Microsoft actually
> invented.
>
> You don't even have to give me a LINK to prove it.
>
Marketing of computer software. Noone else seemed to do it, and seemed
a little surprised when Microsoft did. Some seemed to steadfastly
refuse to market their software until it was too late (OS/2 anyone?)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:43:13 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:27:55 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I have Mandrake 7.2 already set up and running, as best as it can for
: Linux that is.
Hey look everyone! Steve/Claire/S/Nom du Jour is back!
: Open a terminal window under kde and that's the end of it. You can
: never open another one because it is hung. You can open other programs
: and run them but when you try to logout of kde it is hung and it's
: kill the xserver time.
You must have faulty hardware. While I prefer GNOME to KDE, I've used
KDE2 and it works fine, thanks.
: Wheel mouse worked fine until I tried Gnome instead of kde and it (the
: wheel) never worked again after that. Re-installing via DrakConf
: didn't help.
Obviously you changed something else.
: Use the Fontmanager to find my Windows TT Fonts, which it does, but
: they never show up in any of the menues to be selected. SO where are
: they and how do I use them?
Must be an operator condition, I did the exact same thing here, and it worked
just fine.
: Printing doesn't work with StarOffice and CUPS.
Uh oh, better not tell that to my 3 machines that have CUPS && OpenOffice
on them...
: Trying to change the fonts under Gnome Terminal is an exercise in
: confusion. Couldn't they just have a selection "big, larger,huge like
: kde does instead of telling me every fsking detail about the font
: except what type it is (tty etc).
Are you somehow unable to LOOK AT THE PREVIEW? It shows you right there in
the dialog box what the font will look like.
: XFree 4.x kills the WheelMouse. Never works even with imwheel.
Ssshh! Don't tell my PC! My IntelliMouse Explorer works just fine, wheel
and all.
: My Matrox G400 with 16 meg is identified as a 4 meg card. No way to
: change it because Linux insists it has 4 meg.
Obviously you're not trying very hard. If you were, you would have fixed
that.
: Not to mention none of my USB devices work.
Hmm.. That's odd, my USB Mouse, Zip250 and IBM webcam all work just fine.
: MusicMatch Jukebox is a half assed, bloated (13meg) pig that runs like
: molasses under Wino.
A piece of Windoze software is a hunk of junk, and this is somehow Linux's
fault?
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is free.
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:49:00 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:54:28 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >You read that some say Linux is not "free" because you have to pay for
> >it in some way.
>
> Yea aggravation and replacement hardware cost's as well as endless
> hours trying to do the tasks that are trivial under Windows. ICS with
> demand dialing for example. So how DO you do that with kppp?
I'm not sure what you are saying, here. When I buy a computer, I make
sure it has the peripherals that work with the operating system which I
want. To expect an OS to work with any arbitrary peice of hardware is
unrealistic. Yes even Windows dos not have drvers for some stuff. Win2k
has fewer.
>
> >The metaphors are free as in "beer" or free as in "speech."
>
> Free is free. If you hand it to me and don't ask for my credit card it
> is free.
Or, you download it.
[snip]
> >Free is never without some cost. If it is free as in freedom, we must
> >stand on some values, if it is free as in beer, you still must have some
> >investment in the effort to acquire what ever is free.
>
> Investing 12 hours a day to get an operating system running when I can
> run setup.exe with Win2k, is asking a bit too much.
I have no idea what you are talking about. It takes less than an hour to
install Linux, where as Windows is a disaster of rebooting and finding
install files.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:03:25 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:06:02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Connors)
wrote:
>
>Memory Leaks. Goodness, never heard of those in Unix, what do they do?
I can only suggest you learn a bit more about unix. Logon to your
nearest solaris box and enter:
man semaphore
A poorly written unix app can prevent other apps from starting even
after the original app has stopped.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:10:47 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> For lack of anything else to do I decided to go cold turkey and run
> Linux exclusively for one day and see how it measured up for general
> use. No games, no financial packages or Windows only programs, just
> general surfing and letter writing and so forth. The idea was to try
> the different gui's, programs and so forth for an entire day and see
> how Linux compares to Windows 2k.
I have been using Linux exclusively on my system for three years. It is
great. Admittedly, I do have a Windows box for Windows SW development
and the kid's Lego software.
>
> I have Mandrake 7.2 already set up and running, as best as it can for
> Linux that is.
I used Mandrake 6.0, and it was a CD of crap. Clearly not QAed at all,
very unstable. I have since avoided Mandrake.
>
> First off, this version of Linux is anything but stable and that is a
> fact. Here are a few bugs:
One can not call it a fact without correctly establishing proof.
>
> Open a terminal window under kde and that's the end of it. You can
> never open another one because it is hung. You can open other programs
> and run them but when you try to logout of kde it is hung and it's
> kill the xserver time.
I am running KDE 2.0 on RedHat 7.0. I have no such problems.
>
> Wheel mouse worked fine until I tried Gnome instead of kde and it (the
> wheel) never worked again after that. Re-installing via DrakConf
> didn't help.
Re-installing is not something one needs to do in Linux. That's Windows
thinking. Wheel mice are funny things and can be different depending on
the vendor. If it worked once, and no longer works, then something has
changed. Unlike the left and right mouse button, the wheel has a setting
for what it is supposed to do. Look for this, it should be in the
control panel of the desktop environment.
>
> Use the Fontmanager to find my Windows TT Fonts, which it does, but
> they never show up in any of the menues to be selected. SO where are
> they and how do I use them?
Again, I have all my Windows TT fonts and they work fine for me. I have
no Idea what you did.
>
> Setting up an account in Gnome Dialer doesn't work. When you hit OK
> button after inputting all the data it just goes back to a blank, like
> when you started. Real nice applet that one is.
I don't use a dialup, but when I did, I just used netcfg. I never had a
single issue with dialup. Ever.
>
> Selecting "Help" in just about any program brings up that totally
> useless generic KDE help (How to move a mouse etc), or a message that
> help hasn't been written yet. Doesn't surprise me seeing as half of
> kde hasn't been written yet. It looks and acts like a toy and is very
> unstable.
I am surprised at how stable KDE is. I have as yet to have a single
issue with it on my machine. It is great. The Windows box on my right,
is a different story. The boy is always rebooting it because Lego chess
stops working, or IE hangs the machine.
>
> Menues between the various window managers don't have the same
> selections in them. For example:DrakConf is missing from
> Enlightenment. So where did they go?
They are different desktop systems, they store information differently.
If you run dashboard in Windows, changes in that do not show up in your
start menu.
>
> Speaking of Enlightenment (pretty nice BTW), once you run it all of
> your menues in kde and Gnome get screwed up. Totally out to lunch
> unless you wish to rebuild all of your menus.
I tried using GNOME, I don't like it.
>
> Printing doesn't work with StarOffice and CUPS.
I don't know what CUPS is, but I am using Star Office and I can print
fine. HP 870CSE.
>
> Trying to change the fonts under Gnome Terminal is an exercise in
> confusion. Couldn't they just have a selection "big, larger,huge like
> kde does instead of telling me every fsking detail about the font
> except what type it is (tty etc).
KDE is better.
>
> XFree 4.x kills the WheelMouse. Never works even with imwheel.
AFAIK, imwheel is for when you do not have wheel support in your window
manager. Both KDE and GNOME support the wheel, so there my be a
conflict.
>
> My Matrox G400 with 16 meg is identified as a 4 meg card. No way to
> change it because Linux insists it has 4 meg.
Linux has nothing to do with it. If you run your X server with (I think)
-probeonly, or something like that, it will report everything about your
card. The driver portion of the X server queries the video card for how
much ram it has. I would be very surprised if it did not see all the
memory.
>
> Not to mention none of my USB devices work.
OK.
>
> Add to this that Netscape looks like crap no matter what font is
> chosen. StarOffice takes an eternity to load and doesn't import
> correctly from Word for Mac, which even Wordperfect for WIndows does
> fine.
Word for the Mac, I don't know about, but I have no problem with Word
documents in general.
>
> MusicMatch Jukebox is a half assed, bloated (13meg) pig that runs like
> molasses under Wino.
Never used it.
>
> Typical of Linux programs, it is a generation behind the Windows
> version.
Star Office, xmms, freeamp, most of the K desktop utilities, and
generally all the user type things are very much on par with Windows,
IMHO, sometimes even better. I like the feel of KDE much better than
that of Windows.
>
> I did like knode though and that application has promise.
Never used it.
>
> DrakConf is pretty nice as well.
This must be a mandrake thing.
>
> Konquerer doesn't manage certificates well and has an annoying pause
> in it every time you click on a link. The gears pause for a second
> before the thing starts going. Very annoying. It is also much slower
> than IE 5.5 at loading pages from the sites I frequent.
Funny, I don't see that at all.
>
> And on and on and on....
For every problem you claim to have had with Linux, one could claim 10
with Windows. No environment will stand up nit picking, and every
environment takes a bit of tweaking to get working right, and every
environment takes getting used to.
My Linux system is great. I can write specifications, do e-mail, draw
the diagrams I need to, make presentations, surf the web, write and test
software, manage version control, and more. Its great. I can burn a CD,
download software, compile a program, run heavy SQL queries, all at once
and not crash the system or ruin the CD. Windows can not even hope to be
able to do this many things.
Everyone I know with a CD burner on Windows, steps away from the
computer when they are burning a CD because they know Windows will wreck
the CD if they try to do something while it is being burned. Some people
reboot after a burn because the second burn doesn't always work.
Windows is crap, it has lots of games and lots of toys, but it can be
replaced easily in a business environment by Linux.
>
> So tell me again, why should I switch from Windows 2000 to Linux? Why
> should anyone switch? Is there a compelling reason?
This is an easy question. On a business PC, what do you need to do:
Word processor
Spreadsheet
Presentations
Draw diagrams
E-Mail
Web access
SQL Database
Network file share
Network printer share
Calendar
Organizer
CD writer
FAX
and other similar sorts of things.
Linux does all these things, for free, better and more reliable than
Windows.
>Surely just
> looking at the painful boxy fonts of Linux is enough to make one run
> back to Windows. The way I see it I would be taking a huge step
> backwards all for the joy of running Linux.
Depends on what you call taking a step backwards. I call running an
unstable operating system based on DOS a huge step backward. Lose2K is
better, but not much. It has a good kernel, but all the code MS has put
into kernel space to make a VMS clone look like Windows, has really hurt
stability.
>
> Nothing much has changed in 2 years from a UI point of view.
In Windows, almost nothing has changed except UI in almost 10 years. In
NT, too much has changed to be called stable.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:27:33 -0500
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> Of course, unless the Easy PC camera people read this newsgroup, they
> won't know that. ;)
I just sent the following message back to Intel support:
> Any chance Intel will provide a Linux driver for the Easy PC camera?
> Even if it's just a loadable object module with no source that would
> be acceptable. I'd like to use it for my home security system and if
> they support Linux, I'll buy at least 3 more cameras and recommend the
> camera
> in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>
> Can you forward this message over to the Easy PC Camera engineering
> group?
>
> Thanks.
------------------------------
From: "Martigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Since this is an Advocacy....
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:34:37 GMT
<snip>
> I already know how it works. In fact I learned that way back in 1979
> or so and it is old news. Now I concentrate on USING it instead of
> having to figure out how it works every time I add a new piece of
> hardware or software.
>
> Windows 2000 allows me that luxury and Linux doesn't.
And that's great! That is why Windoze is made for people like you.
Don't worry about how it works, just that it works 90% of the time, which is
a good percentage.
Yes it is a pain at first to start learning Linux, like any other
language, or evern C++. I like Linux because it gives ME the control I
want. One is given a choice of controling the OS, not the OS controling the
user. Oh yeah when was the last time an "I love you" virus hit a Linux
network?
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
Why ask why? Do like most Windows users, accept it. ;-)
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:45:55 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> In case you haven't noticed, EVERY able-bodied male citizen of
> Switzerland between the ages of 17 and 45 is not only in the military,
> but, if not on active duty, REQUIRED to maintain his (full automatic)
> service rifle AT HOME.
Good point.
Now quit selfishly clogging the net with that big-ass signature.
Thank God for compression.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:49:58 GMT
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> Actually, I thought of emulating the password dialog and, after collecting a
> password, violating some memory to cause a BSOD. As for the C-A-D, just
> trigger the BSOD the very moment it detects any one of those keys register a
> press. There's a chance it might work.
Search the the web for bluescr2.zip. It's a hilarious screen saver.
Scared myself the first couple times it kicked in!
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Reds, Yellows, and Other Bitter Pills
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:54:35 GMT
David Casey wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > How did you know about my hemorrhoids? I know, you figured out I'm a
> > programmer!
> >
> > By the way, George senior really f*cked up on that one [Saddam].
>
> I used to think that. But, that wasn't in the UN resolution which gave the
> US "permission" to be there in the first place. Also, how would we know
> that someone worse than Saddam wouldn't come into power? Or that Iran
> wouldn't take the chance and invade Iraq while they are leader-less? It
> worked out okay at the time, but the UN screwed it up after the end of the
> war. They left and Saddam is free to run around and rebuild his military
> now so we'll have to fight him again later. Seems to be a habit, eh? Oh
> well. I wonder if we'll have four-power control of Baghdad? The US zone,
> the UK zone, the French zone, the Russian zone, the Saudi zone, etc. ROFL!
>
> Dave
> What group are you reading this in so I can cut the others? I'm in
> us.military.army.
In the same group, thanks to Sulkis.
By the way, did you know that the election of George Bush was predicted
by Nostradamus? Here's the prediction:
"In the twelfth month of the millennial year, in the land of
greatest power, the village idiot will be brought forth and
declared the leader"
- Nostradamus
Nyuk nyuk!
Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Since this is an Advocacy....
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:45:25 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
No-Spam wrote:
[snip]
> >Flatfish
> >Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Because its thickness is directly proportional to its Linux knowledge ?
No. Because it's floundering.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
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