Linux-Advocacy Digest #219, Volume #31 Wed, 3 Jan 01 16:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Tim Smith)
Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge (*)
Re: Step-by step to install Linux RH7 and Win98. (John Thompson)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Global Configuration tool ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Microsoft is 20-years BEHIND other OS vendors ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge (*)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code (Martin Eden)
Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com (.)
Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:56:54 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hackerbabe wrote:
>
> > > > Where do you think most of the 8 million Linux users
> > > > came from?
> > >
> > > 8 million? Divide that by ten and you'll be getting warmer.
> >
> > This seems like an argument that says, in short:
> > "What ever is most used by the masses must be the best. You want
what
> > is best. Therefore, use Win98, since the most people use it on
> > thecounter.com."
> >
> > The masses don't know best for this individual.
>
> or 'the individual'
>
> and i agree with that completely.
>
> but the argument goes both ways.
That's the problem. It doesn't go both ways.
> the individual doesn't know what's best for the masses.
But Bill Gates thinks he does. He thinks that OEMs shouldn't
be allowed to ship anything but Microsoft Windows on their PCs,
regardless of possible demand for other products that could be
offered on a value-add basis.
> and if you're not the individual then you're part of the masses.
Actually, you're an individual who is one of many individuals.
There may be millions who disagree with you, and millions more
who agree with you.
> so because some hard bloke in c.o.l.a
> thinks linux is the greatest thing
> since, well, since 1950's computing.
> doesn't mean it's the greatest thing
> for me.
Which is fine. No one is asking Microsoft or the PC makers or
the retailers to stop carrying Windows systems entirely. They
are merely asking for the ability to make and offer an informed
choice.
> which it isn't.
Linux isn't for everybody. Even in a completely competitive market,
Linux would probably only capture about 30% of the market before
other competitors offered even better products at comparable prices.
Keep in mind that Linux is just one trademark for a line of software
that can be incorporated into any variant of UNIX. In fact, with
Cygwin, the applications can even be ported to Windows.
It's just easier to referr to "Linux", which referrs to all of the
software included in most distributions, than to try and itemize
all 1600-2000 packages.
> at all.
Good. If you like Windows, stay with it. In fact Linux encourages
standards that can easily be implemented by software vendors who wish
to create software for Windows.
Microsoft doesn't want you to have a choice. Microsoft wants you to
use Windows whether your like it or not. Microsoft wants your boss
to force you to use Windows. Microsoft wants your ISP to refuse
to let you access the Internet unless you are running Windows.
Microsoft feels that they are the only ones with the right to
innovate, that all other innovators should either give their code
to Microsoft, sell it for the equivalent of one year's salary, or
allow Microsoft to steal their software and use proprietary extensions
to drive the originators into bankruptcy.
Specifically, we are talking not about all of the 25,000 Microsoft
employees, but primarily of Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, and Jim Alchin.
The rest are pretty much just cult followers who do the bidding of
the "big 3" in hopes of culling favor and obtaining new positions
within the company. Even when the company asks them to do things
that they know to be illegal, they follow orders, even going beyond
the specific directive, and Microsoft rewards them for that.
In the U.S. we have a significant portion of our laws which are
designed to protect the minorities from the majority. Laws granting
rights of speech, religeon, and due process were designed to protect
minorities who could be killed for speaking against injustice, were
tortured for their religeous practices and beliefs prior to the
constitution, and were often imprisoned, tortured, dismembered, and
even executed without trial, even the benefit of a public hearing.
In the 1960s, people who felt segregation was wrong and should be
stopped were beaten, attacked, assaulted, and in many cases lynched,
by majority forces who wanted to silence the minority. In Germany,
Bosnia, and Africa, the majority simply exterminated the minority
in mass murders that often took place on an unimaginable scale.
Yet this same country, who fought in two world wars, 3 police actions,
and a 30 year "cold war" to protect the minority from the majority,
now suggests that a corporation totally controlled by only 3 major
stockholders (Paul Allen has since left the board), should have the
right to invade the privacy of everyone, should be immune from
prosecution, should be allowed to win an appeal that would give them
unconstrained power over the global economy (Gate's real goal).
No one wants to see Microsoft shut down or driven out of business.
Even in the absense of a court order Microsoft will eventually have
to restructure itself to prevent further government intervention.
Microsoft has come under increasing scrutiny by numerous state and
federal agencies for it's strategic role in regulated industries.
Microsoft has a holding company that will ultimately be regulated by
the Securities and Exchange Commission.
They have a Travel Agency which will ultimately be regulated by the
Public Utilities Commission.
They have financial services which will ultimately be regulated by
the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve.
They have access to confidential information which will cause them
to be regulated and monitored by the FBI.
And they have international business ties that will result in
further international regulation.
> y'r pal -kK
--
Rex Ballard - VP I/T Architecture
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 60 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 9%/month! (recalibrated 10/23/00)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: 3 Jan 2001 11:09:50 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
William L. Hartzell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Tim:
>Funny definition of fragmentation. You order it very well and call it
>fragmented?
>Bill
Perhaps fragmentation is like cholesterol...there's good fragmentation
and bad fragmentation. To a defragmenter program, what I did was
fragment those files rather severely. To the system, what I did was
interleave them to match known access patterns.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: * <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:29:52 GMT
hackerbabe wrote:
> I have no argument about what you think is personally is best for you.
> I guess the most appropriate thing to do is to agree to disagree.
i'll disagree to that.
err, agree rather.
appropriately. umm. disappropriately agree.
to do. disagree.
hmm.
ehh.
y'r pal -kK
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Step-by step to install Linux RH7 and Win98.
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:37:36 -0600
gataway wrote:
> I'm going to setup a new system with two ATA 100 harddisk, one for win
> 98 the other for Linux RH7.I'm planning to have BootMAgic and Partition
> Magic install .
> So which OS do i install first?
Install Win98 first, otherwise it will stomp on linux' boot
loader.
> And what partition is needed for noth
> win98SE and Linux?
Microsoft operating systems insist on booting from the first
primary partition on the first physical device. There are ways
around this, but if you're starting fresh, why bother. Other
operating systems, including linux, do not share this
limitation. Install your linux partitions as logical partitions
inside an extended partition and you shouldn't have any problems.
> Can i have and exmaple of how much space for each
> partition?
As much as you can spare. Just guess at first and then further
down the road you can repartition to redistribute the space to
fit your needs, once you find out what they are...
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:00:52 GMT
"Functionality". Is the ability to perform tasks in simple maners that
don't involve complicated steps.
Under Linux, I call this "duh functionality". The ability to do something
that feels natural, like DRAG AND DROP functionality. Sure, I can drag and
drop files from location to location under GMC, but can I Drag and Drop
those FILES to applications on my GNOME programs menu and open them? NO!
Can I "reassoicate" files by selecting the "open with" option, and have the
program I use added to a list of compatible "viewing" apps? NO!
Does Netscape query the GNOME file assoication system when dealing with
internet files? No.
Do KDE and KDE2 programs function with the GNOME file assoication system?
No.
Do KDE2 program lists, and GNOME WM program lists syncronizse perfectly?
(Or even at all under most circumstances?) No.
"hackerbabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92vimr$7rp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kyle Jacobs wrote:
>
> > Linux's collection of User interfaces suck.
>
> Why and in what ways do they suck?
>
> > KDE2 goes a long way into
> > reducing the amount of "suck" in it,
>
> Because of the additional programs that come with it?
>
> > and Enlightenment goes even further, to
> > add "eye-candy",
>
> Do other Linux UIs suck because they aren't as "pretty" as
> Enlightenment?
>
> > but the resulting UI's don't go into adding FUNCTIONALITY
> > that is substantial to the previous revisions of KDE and Gnome &
> > Enlightenment (or sawmill).
>
> Could you clarify your precise definition of "functionality"? Other
> people seem to think Linux's GUIs function just fine in
> comp.os.linux.advocacy. Maybe you know something that they don't?
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.linux.sucks,alt.linux.slakware
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:02:26 GMT
And something you refuse to use when you post.
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:51:11 GMT, Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Flat head, is more like it.
> > >
> > > I'm not the one who has to pound one's head against the wall in
> > > frustration begging manufacturers to support Linux.
> >
> > Maybe you should learn to write a driver for your favorite device(s).
> > Contribute instead of complaining.
>
> That would take intelligence.
>
> Something squashedfish-- doesn't have.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Microsoft is 20-years BEHIND other OS vendors
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:08:02 GMT
Yea, Linux apps are here.
The general interface is years behind the interface of their Windows or Mac
task counterparts.
The installation systems are imprecise, and unnecessarily complicated. Only
commercial Linux programs have gone around this, and instituted INSTALLERS.
The apps are constantly in a state of "pre-release", "alpha", "beta", or
have more zeros preceding an actual revision number that considering the
program's functionality (there's that word again) is barely worth your time
compiling, and installing.
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kyle Jacobs wrote:
>
> > Windows lacks things. Linux lacks things. And which lacks in more
> > (desktop) functionality? LINUX.
>
> Actually you are confused. You're probably thinking of apps.
>
> Windows has a huge head start in apps, 'tis true.
>
> But the cat is out of the bag, and a wave Linux apps is beginning.
>
> However the look and feel of the desktop metaphor is one
> area where we must admit that windows is rather lame
> in comparison to modern Unix GUIs.
>
> jjs
>
------------------------------
From: * <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:15:51 GMT
"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" wrote:
> > but the argument goes both ways.
>
> That's the problem. It doesn't go both ways.
ok.
> > the individual doesn't know what's best for the masses.
>
> But Bill Gates thinks he does.
and this is counter to my argument because..
> > and if you're not the individual then you're part of the masses.
>
> Actually, you're an individual who is one of many individuals.
> There may be millions who disagree with you, and millions more
> who agree with you.
obviously. but if i am not you - which thankfully is not possible - i am
one of everyone else.
we are still saying basically the same thing. i was just also making a
point.
> > so because some hard bloke in c.o.l.a
> > thinks linux is the greatest thing
> > since, well, since 1950's computing.
> > doesn't mean it's the greatest thing
> > for me.
>
> Which is fine. No one is asking Microsoft or the PC makers or
> the retailers to stop carrying Windows systems entirely. They
> are merely asking for the ability to make and offer an informed
> choice.
umm. but if you are informed then shouldn't you already be aware of the
choices offered?
> > which it isn't.
>
> Linux isn't for everybody. Even in a completely competitive market,
> Linux would probably only capture about 30% of the market before
> other competitors offered even better products at comparable prices.
gee. did you come up with all those useless figures and baseless
predictions by yourself? brilliant.
> > at all.
>
> Good. If you like Windows, stay with it. In fact Linux encourages
> standards that can easily be implemented by software vendors who wish
> to create software for Windows.
hmm. perhaps you should inform yourself a little better.
windows is not and has never been the only alternative to linux.
> Microsoft doesn't want you to have a choice. Microsoft wants you to
> use Windows whether your like it or not.
umm. i think it's great that linux is fundamentally socialist and wants
to promote diversity - well, within the realm of 'linux' anyway - but i'm
not critisizing microsoft because their goals are the same as any
business in the capitalist market.
i am not saying i agree either. because i don't.
and i am not saying i don't agree with the government action being taken
against them. because i do.
microsoft did terrible things, and they should pay. but the problem i
think, is much much larger.
> In the 1960s, people who felt segregation was wrong and should be
> stopped were beaten, attacked, assaulted, and in many cases lynched,
> by majority forces who wanted to silence the minority. In Germany,
> Bosnia, and Africa, the majority simply exterminated the minority
> in mass murders that often took place on an unimaginable scale.
good lord.
it's easy to persecute gates and compare him to hitler. or his 'cult
following' employees to the nazis. but why stop there?
when the secret ones pulling all the strings are the billion stockholders
who just want to see a return on their buck?
y'r pal -kK
------------------------------
From: Martin Eden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:23:05 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
~snip~
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'd say you two are in a league of your own 8*)
> > >
> > > Windows crappy behavior is universally recognized by all but a few
> > > LYING zealots like yourself.
> >
> > Wow! A zealot! A liar! Care to back up your random accusations with
> > facts;
>
> Your words speak for themselves.
>
I agree.
I thought my words spoke particularly vehemently when I claimed to be one
of the heroes of the Gulf War, but subsequently "forgot" what unit I was
attached to during that conflict...
It was also rather hilarious when I spent several months harassing the
morbidly obese over on soc.support.fat.acceptance.
The episode where I claimed to be a "Unix Systems Engineer" was likewise
interesting, despite the fact that I have been recorded posting to usenet
an average of 40-70 times per day from a Windows 98 machine for nearly a
year. (Strange career I have here, wouldn't you say?)
Or when I was involved in a "discussion" about how African-Americans are
"defective" over on soc.culture.african-american...that was pretty
revealing about my character...
Oh - those were all YOUR words, weren't they?
Well: you are correct Einstein, they do speak for themselves...
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:02:10 +1300
> >False.
> >They want you to pass their tests, so you've a minimal amount of information
> >about the platform you are dealing with.
> Which would make sense if the information they require you to have was
> correct. We have all heard enough stories about the amount of
> incorrect answers on those tests.
In my experience, there aren't many incorrect answers, but usually
questions with more than one right answer, only one of which is the
'official MS answer'. You either have to shell out megabucks (imagine
that! MS finding a way to make you shell out some money!) to find out
what MS say the answers are meant to be and get memorizing, or fail the
test because you know exactly what you're doing but not what the 'correct
answer' is.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:27:29 +0200
"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:51:12 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("JSPL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >> > it shows 3589 matches. I then did a search for "linux" and that
keyword
> >> > recieved 510 matches. I also was in a Barnes & Noble not long ago and
do
> >not
> >> > remember seeing nearly as many Linux related books compared to volume
> >after
> >> > volume, and sometimes multi volume SETS of books about Microsoft
Windows
> >and
> >> > NT.
>
> >> 510/3589 = 14%, which is a hell of a lot more than 0.3% or even 3%. Not
> >> a bad ratio at all.
>
> >That depends on your point of view. One could argue thats it's a very bad
> >ratio. If it was more user friendly there would be a need for such a high
> >ratio, especially since the OS exists on only .3% of the worlds
computers.
>
> Not really, it's just that on Linux there's more to learn. Most of the
> Windows books I've read just tell you how to point-n-click your way
> through some trivial chores, whereas things I've read about Linxu tell
> you how the whole operating system works.
On general, try to get the thick books, those are the serious ones. Which
tells you how the whole OS works.
And avoid anything that has "for dummies" in its title.
------------------------------
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