Linux-Advocacy Digest #302, Volume #31 Sat, 6 Jan 01 15:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Why Hatred? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Deja No News ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Computers, monopoly... (WAS: Re: Big government and big business: why not fear
both - www.ezboard.com) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Why Hatred? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why Hatred? (T. Max Devlin)
KDE vs GNOME (installations) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Deja No News (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Computers, monopoly... (WAS: Re: Big government and big business: why not fear
both - www.ezboard.com) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why Hatred? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why Hatred? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: open source is getting worst with time. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux can be made unstable, too. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Why NT? (Shane Phelps)
Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com ("Tom
Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:23:09 GMT
Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:18:44
>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
>> >"A bit of hyperbole" is an understatement.
>>
>> Hardly. If you don't have enough brains to figure out that "all the
>> time" is used in a rhetorical sense, then considering yourself
>> reasonable and capable is an overstatement.
>
>And yet when I say "Linux lags behind Windows" I get hauled up on that one.
Well, you have this habit of saying it in COLA, see....
>I eventually have to qualify it, with "Linux + KDE lags behind Windows". It
>would appear that you see hyperbole when some says "Windows crashes all the
>time" and don't when I say "Linux lags behind Windows"! Talk about
>selective!
Whether something crashes is not so entirely subjective as whether
something lags. If you were more selective in what you say, people
would be less selective in pointing out your mistakes.
>>> Which is to say that it is, in truth and fact, as unstable as the rest
>>> of Microsoft's crapware.
>>
>> >So, interfaces in Java are unstable too?
>>
>> I wouldn't know, but I don't see the relationship. Java isn't Microsoft
>> crapware, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My guess would be,
>> though, that you are confused about the difference between Java and
>> Win32 (or COM).
>
>COM at its binary contract level is similar to Java's interfaces, if you
>understand how it works. What you said in your previous post makes me
>realise you don't understand it yourself.
No, but I do understand why I don't care, and why it doesn't matter in
the slightest. Java isn't monopoly crapware, COM is. Whether they are
both *supposedly* similar in their "binary contract level" is not the
issue.
>> >We were talking about COM in general in this case, you seem to want to
>> >pull the conversation back onto your favourite gripe.
>>
>> No, you brought up COM in this particular case, because you'd just as
>> soon avoid dealing specifically with the reality of the matter. I only
>> have one gripe, and its not a favorite, concerning Microsoft: they are
>> felons who peddle over-priced, over-hyped monopoly crapware.
>
>Precisely my point.
I don't get it. You seem to vacillate rather rapidly between pro-MS and
anti-MS perspectives. I suppose its possible I've been reading into
some of your comments, but you don't seem to recognize the nature of the
issue. Perhaps you are blinded by the lack of alternatives into
thinking that Windows has some competitive superiority in terms of
technical design, or maybe you just like to be contrary.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Deja No News
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:14:24 +0200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said SomeoneElse in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:18:02
> >Sad to say it may be fruitless too.
> >How do you know that they haven't already deleted them.
>
> Not even a profiteer could possibly be that stupid.
Yeah, if they are in a really big trouble, that database can save their
asses.
And it's not like storage space is expensive this days.
I doubt that their DB can be over several terabytes, and that would cost
only few hundreds dolars to store.
Considerring that they can probably sell the database for 6 figure amount at
the *very* least, they would be *idiots* to delete it.
Hell, they can probably build a simple search tool and sell the database on
a couple dozens of DVDs, I know that *I* would pay for such a thing.
If it would be priced at the couple of hundreds dollars, I believe that I
wouldn't be the only one.
Or you could get slices of the database, like only particular groups
history.
I would be interested in rec.arts.sf.*, frex.
Maybe we should suggest it to Deja.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks,comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: Computers, monopoly... (WAS: Re: Big government and big business: why
not fear both - www.ezboard.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:18:00 +0200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Jure Sah in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 06 Jan 2001 13:37:10
> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >> Which is why I *ALWAYS* build my own computer....it's no bargain when
> >> you have to replace 1/2 of the hardware to get the system up to
> >> your own personal specifications.
> >
> >Do you have an Imac? =]
> >
> >LOL, I couldn't imagine a more useless computer: No floppy drive, no
> >additional misc hardware slots, no COM lines! What could one possibly do
> >with such a computer?
> >
> >Second of all, why didn't anyone sue them for not allowing any other
> >hardware makers to be able to insert their hardware. They are making a
> >much worse monopoly than MS!
>
> The difference is that Apple builds a proprietary computer system, they
> don't deal with the "open platform" PCs. The only thing they have a
> "monopoly" in is their own products, while Microsoft has a monopoly on
> all PCs, which they neither build nor sell.
Actually, it doesn't matter.
Apple has an overwhelming monopol over the PPC market, Microsoft on the i386
market.
Hell, one of NT problems cause Intel to change the P4 family number (from 8
to 15), which only shows it.
However, the reason I wouldn't get a Mac anytime soon is that apperantly no
one can raise the PPC over the 500 Mhz limit.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:32:28 GMT
Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:24:36
>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
>> >Then let me see... what happens if I use the same level of hyperbole? Do
>> >I get a reasonable conversation? Do I hell! You want your cake and eat it
>> >too!
>>
>> Yes, you do, though I would expect that your estimation of "the same
>> level of hyperbole" is probably incredibly skewed, owing to your need to
>> excuse One Microsoft Way from all fault or difficulties.
>
>There you go again. You bring your favourite subject into everything you
>say.
It is the topic of discussion, for god's sake.
>When I use hyperbole, I get yelled and insulted with terms like "shithead".
>Is that what you call skewed by my need to excuse One Microsoft way from
>all fault or difficulties?
When you use hyperbole to support Microsoft, you get yelled at. When
those who attack Microsoft use hyperbole to do so, they don't. How
unfair is that? Is that what you're saying?
What can I say; it seems fair to me. Microsoft is a criminal
organization, and Linux is a powerful and novel operating system.
>> >"Shithead" is hardly subjective.
>>
>> No, but whether it is taken as an insult is subjective. As well as
>> whether it is deserved.
>
>So, I should interpret "shithead" as a compliment?
No, you should interpret it as invective. A reasonable person doesn't
get insulted when some moron with no manners calls them a "shithead" out
of the blue. On the other hand, if you were saying something that
caused such a response, it generally means you should re-examine what it
was you were saying, and why it might cause such a vehement reaction.
>If someone uses insulting terms, then it's an insult. Why are you trying to
>twist that?
To fuck with you.
>> >I realise how prone Windows is to crashing (as I've often said). But as
>> >for Windows 2000, I don't know the answer there yet.
>>
>> An argument from ignorance. Extrapolate a little. Its better than NT,
>> but not anywhere near as reliable as Unix. We know that much. Within
>> that range, I don't think anyone really cares what you claim. So long
>> as you're not foolish enough to claim, without empirical support, that
>> it is stable.
>
>I have no idea if it is anywhere near as reliable as UNIX. For all I know
>it could be more reliable. Only time will tell.
>
>How do you know if it is not as reliable as UNIX?
There is no reason to believe so, and a strong indication, based on the
history of Microsoft OSes, that it is incapable of being anywhere near
as reliable as Unix.
>> That you're paying attention to the wrong things.
>
>I'm paying attention to the things I care about. Or should what I care
>about be ignored by everyone else?
Yes, definitely. Everyone but the active competition in a free market,
anyway. What you care about has no bearing on anyone else. It is a
common practice with the monopoly, however, that apologists presume that
since something is "good for them", everybody else should be happy with
that choice being the only one available. There are precious few
Windows lovers who wouldn't still prefer to see someone "competing",
because they know it will lower prices and increase quality.
>>> In the balance, you are certainly a less flagrant MS Apologist than,
>>> say, Erik Funchenbusch or 'JS/PL'. But sniping at people who say that
>>> Windows crashes 'all the time', or even 'every hour or so', in a fit of
>>> frustration with monopoly crapware; that definitely makes you an MS
>>> Apologist.
>>
>>Well, fair enough. That certainly more polite than being called a shithead.
>
>Most of the time, I'm afraid its the same thing.
You'll notice I unsnipped the paragraph preceding your comment, Pete.
You've got this nasty habit of snipping too much context, so nobody can
tell what you were commenting on.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:35:29 GMT
Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:29:18
>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
>> Check the newsgroup name, and consider that nobody much cares about your
>> opinion, as you've proven to be a soft-headed Microsoft apologist who
>> doesn't have either the reason or the capability to make such judgements
>> with any degree of credibility.
>
>Then that's it as far as I can see. I'm talking to a brick wall. There no
>sense in continuing a conversation on those terms.
Sorry; that flame-thrower might have gone off a bit prematurely.
Regardless, the point in continuing the conversation would be to correct
those terms, if they are in error.
>> Then Microsoft stands convicted of a felony; the only thing that can be
>> "thrown out" at this point is the appeal.
>
>And what has been the effect of this conviction so far? Has Microsoft
>changed it ways as yet? There has been some softening but it looks as
>though "Carry on sa before" is the Microsoft way. If politics takes over,
>this felony may get squashed and we may see a reversal.
That is a far less likely possibility than those overly affected by
partisan rhetoric are aware of.
>> Then why was it all you addressed or seem concerned about in the post
>> under discussion?
>
>Read my replies.
>
>BTW, bye for now. I don't plan to respond to you any more. You have made it
>clear you are incapable of a reasonable discussion. I would killfile you
>but KNode doesn't have that feature.
My apologies; you did indeed stumble in the path of my knee as it was
jerking upwards. TTFN
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: KDE vs GNOME (installations)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:28:26 GMT
Alright, this will probably start up a war that we've already done to
death a million times, but I just wanted to bring up an aspect that I
think needs addressing.
Go to the HelixCode website and see how many steps are involved in
downloading the latest version of Gnome to your desktop. I counted 4:
bring up a terminal, su, do a command using lynx, follow the directions.
It was very straightforward. All 4 steps are on the website for you to
see, with everything spelled out for you.
KDE is still tar-balling or rpming everything for KDE2, and involves a
separate download for the appropriate version of QT.
Which method is better? I'd be inclined to say HelixCode's method,
because it worked very nicely for me, and I'm doing a ton of updating to
a Red Hat 6.1 install, but it occured to me that if I were the sort of
complete newbie that needed easy installation, I might as well just grab
the latest commercial distribution and go from there. So, is this issue
moot?
On the other hand, I'm one of those Linux users who likes a clean
installer, and I didn't want to have to fork out for a Mandrake 7.2
which was probably going to be obsolete (or close to it) at this stage
of the game anyway, what with the new kernel and XFree4 and everything.
So buying a new commercial release doesn't do it for me, so I'm stuck in
this inevitable comparison between the two.
I'd say this is a critical issue on which desktop will succeed (if not
necessarily which is better), because if a newbie comes to you and asks
whether to go with KDE or GNOME, and you tell that newbie to give them
both a try because they're both free (and isn't the Linux world better
for it etc.), and that newbie goes home and sees these two different
installation methods, what newbie isn't going to be tempted to take the
path of least resistance, and go with GNOME?
For what it's worth, yes, I'm going to do the KDE2 install too, even if
it's going to be a learning experience. I'm finding myself using
KSoftware all the time, even with the GNOME desktop.
Just a thought. Oh yeah, new GNOME and 2.4 kernel? No problems yet!
Yeah!! And writing this with Mozilla! Woo-hoo! In XFree4!! And
postgresql is running in the background! Yippee! Ain't free software great?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Deja No News
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:42:21 GMT
Said David Brown in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:12:02
>T. Max Devlin wrote in message
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>I'm posting this message to point out that I am stripping that annoying
>>petition request from my signature. This should be the last post
>>showing it. I know its annoying,
>
>Can you persuade other posters to drop their absurd, meaningless and overly
>long signatures too?
<*chuckle*> I've discussed it with Aaron, as have others. No joy.
>Your's at least had a point, although it got a bit
>tedious after a few months. There are others who have far longer, and far
>less meaningful signatures - perhaps Deja should delete old archives, or at
>least those with a high signature-to-content ratio.
It wasn't just the petition link, but my old news service put one of
those ugly "Free News" (despite the fact that I was paying for it
through my ISP) additions. That is also, thankfully, now a thing of the
past.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks,comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: Computers, monopoly... (WAS: Re: Big government and big business: why
not fear both - www.ezboard.com)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:44:27 GMT
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:18:00
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Jure Sah in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 06 Jan 2001 13:37:10
>> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>> >> Which is why I *ALWAYS* build my own computer....it's no bargain when
>> >> you have to replace 1/2 of the hardware to get the system up to
>> >> your own personal specifications.
>> >
>> >Do you have an Imac? =]
>> >
>> >LOL, I couldn't imagine a more useless computer: No floppy drive, no
>> >additional misc hardware slots, no COM lines! What could one possibly do
>> >with such a computer?
>> >
>> >Second of all, why didn't anyone sue them for not allowing any other
>> >hardware makers to be able to insert their hardware. They are making a
>> >much worse monopoly than MS!
>>
>> The difference is that Apple builds a proprietary computer system, they
>> don't deal with the "open platform" PCs. The only thing they have a
>> "monopoly" in is their own products, while Microsoft has a monopoly on
>> all PCs, which they neither build nor sell.
>
>Actually, it doesn't matter.
>Apple has an overwhelming monopol over the PPC market, Microsoft on the i386
>market.
Microsoft doesn't build computers, and your considerations based on
chips are erroneous.
>Hell, one of NT problems cause Intel to change the P4 family number (from 8
>to 15), which only shows it.
Shows that Microsoft is an illegal monopoly, yes. Doesn't say a thing
about Apple.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:46:39 GMT
Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:59:27
>Tom Wilson wrote:
[...]
>> > And so was OpenVMS. You tried working with $DESCRIPTOR with C?
>>
>> No, but I've heard some horror stories regarding it from those who've had
>> the opportunity. My only programming forray into VMS-land was with RPG-II
>> and COBOL - Maintaining some simple payroll stuff.
>>
>> I hate both languages passionately, BTW.
>
>You hate both C and C++, is that right?
Do you do that on purpose, Pete? Because if you do, I can see why I
pounded you earlier.
[...]
>What should be very interesting is when Borland release Kylix, a cross
>development version of Delphi/C++ Builder that works on both Windows and
>Linux.
Indeed, that sounds very interesting.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:56:47 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:jUJ56.15760$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> > > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > >
> > > > You obviously don't do much in the way of Windows development.
> > >
> > > Six years with Visual C++
> > > Four years Delphi.
> > >
> > > And now writing audio device drivers with WDM.
> > >
> > > Obviously not enough.
> >
> > So many people post here that aren't what they seem.You run into a lot
of
> > wannabes around here. If the above is true, I humbly apologise.
>
> Thank you.
>
> > > And so was OpenVMS. You tried working with $DESCRIPTOR with C?
> >
> > No, but I've heard some horror stories regarding it from those who've
had
> > the opportunity. My only programming forray into VMS-land was with
RPG-II
> > and COBOL - Maintaining some simple payroll stuff.
> >
> > I hate both languages passionately, BTW.
>
> You hate both C and C++, is that right?
No...RPG-II and COBOL.
C and C++ are my primary languages
PASCAL, ASSEMBLER and PERL round out the top five.
>
> > > MFC works well enough, if you like the straight jacket they apply to
> > > applications. Some of the general purpose stuff ain't that bad.
> >
> > I resorted to wrapping the API into classes myself because the
> > "straitjacket" among other reasons. Some of the more arcane areas, which
I
> > unfortunately had to deal with, are incompletely or inaccurately
> > documented. Cross-platform inconsistancies are a big problem (An API
> > issue, really.). There seems to be a great deal of memory leakage too.
> > (And I'm not talking about CString, either. Picking on it would be far
too
> > easy <g>)
>
> When I came across Delphi 1.0 (a free copy stuck on a CD on the front of a
> magazine), I went out and bought V2.0. I've not looked back. It's class
> library, VCL, is _so_ much better than MFC. It's truly object based as
> opposed to the thin wrapper around WIN32 that most of MFC is.
>From what little I saw of Delphi, first version, I got a favorable
impression. Since I'm very proficient in PASCAL, almost no learning curve
was involved. With it, I wrote a smallish app to custom generate Win95 boot
disks. It took almost no time at all to write.
>
> > The shop I hack for now has officially been declared an MFC-free zone.
Now
> > if we could figure out a way to rid ourselves of the WTL...<g>
>
> I created some applications for the company I work for with Delphi. They
> felt that I created them much faster than with Visual C++. Then someone
> wanted multi-lingual versions and things went a bit awry.
"You know it would be great if you could add..." are my least favorite words
<g>
>
> I've started using C++ Builder V5.0 a lot more (a C++ version of Delphi)
> and it appears to be as robust as Delphi (my previous experience with
> earlier versions was not pleasant).
I've not heard good things about it either. I steered clear.
>
> What should be very interesting is when Borland release Kylix, a cross
> development version of Delphi/C++ Builder that works on both Windows and
> Linux.
It'd certainly be worth looking into, Linux could use a good development
platform.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:58:57 GMT
"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 09:28:48 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >> Ever seen a game of rugby...no poofy pads and shit! now thats a real
mans
> >> sport!
>
> >Played it a few times. It was fun. Chipped a tooth.
> >Played cricket once, too. Very boring game...
>
> Ever seen baseball? Now THAT'S boring. Every player's allowed to be
> out about 50 times.
Even though baseball is the "all-american" game, I never was that fond of
it.
At least it isn't hockey...
(Commence flaming now, Canadians)
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux can be made unstable, too.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:02:56 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > "Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:936otu$mrd$00$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Undoing the damage from an inopportune power outage (and they happen
> > > > eventually regardless of how stable your power grid may be) costs
more.
> > > > Especially if you're a developer or handle any sensitive
information.
> > > >
> > > > A UPS and a good backup plan are essential if you use your system
for
> > more
> > > > than playing games and surfing the net.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tom Wilson
> > > > Sunbelt Software Solutions
> > > >
> > > I am a developer, and i do regular backups. But just to reinstall
> > > everything would take at least a day, then even 400 Dollars is not
very
> > > much. Remember, this is a UPS ratet at 1000 Watts, this is enough to
power
> > > 2 Computers with the monitors
> >
> > Sounds about like my set-up.
> > We have a lousy power grid here (Tennessee) that's complicated by idiot
> > drivers plowing into utility poles. Mine kicks on at least once a week.
> >
>
> One of the major reasons why new subdivisions now have underground power.
>
The idiot drivers around here would STILL manage to take it out somehow.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why NT?
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:08:44 +1100
Todd already gave me a good summary of what he sees as the advantages,
thanks.
W2K looks to be enough of an improvement over NT 4 to use for new boxes,
but probably not enough to upgrade existing ones.
The current version of Samba does seem to work well with W2K, so that
particular problem isn't a major headache anymore. The problem was
showing up when trying to run a Samba box as a PDC.
It seems odd that MS changed the protocol to such an extent that it took
the Samba team most of the year to get the wrinkles ironed out.
Before the conspiracy theorists jump in, MS apparently *were* working
with the Samba team to get the problems ironed out. It would be better
if they had published the SMB specs, though, rather than having to wade
through TCP dumps to find the differences.
The same goes for the RDP changes which have broken rdesktop. I suspect
MS will find quite a few mixed Unix/NT shops will stick with NT 4 until
the interopability bugs have been ironed out, so it's probably in MS's
interest to be a bit more forthcoming about the protocols.
Any OS upgrade is going to involve a lot of regression testing, but
changes to such obvious fundamental areas tend to make you look harder
for problems in other areas.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I am not familiar with your specific SMB problem although would expect
> Samba to correct the problem so to advertise W2K compatibility.
>
> Difficult to reply to your genuine question without knowing more about
> your environment. What are your business needs? What do you use NT for
> now? What is your workstation base like?
>
> Shane Phelps wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > Try Windows 2000
> > >
> >
> > There are some valid reasons for using Windows NT Server.
> > Unfortunately W2K breaks some of these (SMB changes cripple Samba,
> > RDP changes break rdesktop). I have been led to believe there are
> > compatibilty problems in other areas as well, but don't have
> > first-hand experience.
> >
> > What advantages does W2K (NT 5) Server have over NT 4 which makes
> > it such a big advance? It seems to be six of one and half a dozen
> > of the other to me, leaving aside the problems mentioned above.
> > This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one, so provide a
> > considered response please.
> >
> > > mlw wrote:
> > > >
> > > > With operating systems as great as Linux and FreeBSD available for free,
> > > > why would anyone consider Windows NT Server?
> > > >
> > > > I can't think of a single reason why any responsible IT department would
> > > > deploy NT.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:08:41 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > Worst of all, they *lock* you into Microsoft.
> > > I wonder where the idea for WinModems came?
> > >
> >
> > A scheme to reduce hardware costs by using software to provide error
> > correction and data compression.
> >
>
> Then why were the drivers provided *ONLY* for LoseDOS?
Probably due to the fact that most folks not running MACS were running
Windows 95 machines.
>
> Why was it not called "cheaperModem" or something like that
> (you know...something that ties it to lower cost, not M$ Lose__ products.
Putting the word cheap in your product name has a pretty negative
connotation.
In the case of WinModems, the negative connotation is pretty accurate <g>
Why a company with the reputation US Robotics had, produced that crap is
beyond me!
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
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