Linux-Advocacy Digest #382, Volume #31 Thu, 11 Jan 01 05:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: New Dodge uses Linux and Java ("Hagen Bauersachs")
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: You and Microsoft... ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Terry Porter)
Re: The real truth about NT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: New Dodge uses Linux and Java ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux vs Microsoft ("Tom Wilson")
Re: The real truth about NT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) )
("Tom Wilson")
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Richard Steiner)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Richard Steiner)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Richard Steiner)
Re: You and Microsoft... ("Tom Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Hagen Bauersachs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Dodge uses Linux and Java
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:53:58 +0100
Yuck! Looks like a UGLY copy of a Audi TT.
Hagen
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Got this from /. : New Dodge Super 6 Hemi uses Linux and Java
<http://www.4adodge.com/autoshow/news/hemi.html>
>
> I like the specs, less HP than my Coronet and Charger, but less weight too
:
> Dodge Super8 HemiŪ Preliminary Specifications
> Powertrain
> Engine: Prototype 353 cu. in. (5.7-liter)
> HemiŪ V-8
> Estimated Power: 353 bhp (263 kW)
> Estimated Torque: 395 lb.-ft. (536 Nm)
> Transmission: 4-speed AutoStickŪ manumatic
> transmission
> Drive: Rear-wheel drive
>
> Body & Suspension
> Structure: Unitized body with B-pillarless
> body side aperture
> Suspension
> -- Front: Independent with modified
> MacPherson struts
> -- Rear: Custom independent five-link with
> coil-over-shock setup
>
> Wheels & Tires Wheels: 22" x 10"
> Tires
> -- Front: P255-740R560
> -- Rear: P255-770R560
>
> Dimensions & Weight Length: 186 in. (4724 mm)
> Width: 73.9 in. (1877 mm)
> Height: 56.2 in. (1427 mm)
> Wheelbase: 117.4 in. (2982 mm)
> Track
> -- Front: 62.5 in. (1588 mm)
> -- Rear: 62.8 in. (1595 mm)
> Weight: 3600 lbs. (1633 kg)
>
> Estimated Performance
> 0-60 mph (0-97 kph): 5.7 sec
> Top Speed: 154 mph (248 kph)
> Quarter Mile, Standing Start 14.1 sec @ 101.5
> mph (162 kph)
> --
> Russ
> <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> Not powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:00:18 -0600
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93irfr$fea$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : That depends. I'd say it's not well documented. What if you don't know
> : what a default gateway is, or what multicast routing is, or what an NIS
> : client is? What exactly ARE the "Flags for rwhod"? or the named flags?
>
> : Yes, there are comments which mention something, but I'd hardly call
that
> : "well documented".
>
> Not all documentation should live in one spot. Nobody who already knows
> those things wants to wade through that crap to find the thing they
> need to change. For someone who knows what they are doing already,
> the comments tell them the proper syntax to express it to the system.
> For someone who doesn't already know what those things mean, go
> to the /usr/doc directory for the long-winded documentation. (If you
> don't know what an NIS client is, you can't easily explain it all in
> a few paragraphs, so putting that in the file itself is too verbose.)
In other words, the file is not well documented by it's comments internally.
It's barely documented enough to find documentation elsewhere.
> Don't try to get into a dick-waving contest about documentation
> between Windows and Unix. Terse descriptions aren't nearly as
> annoying as the non-existant technical descriptions you (don't) get
> through Windows' installed docs.
There are gigabytes of information available free on the web.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:01:18 -0600
"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93in2m$adklg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >The Windows setup files are all 8.3 conformant. We were talking about
> using
> >a network card, not a modem.
>
> I thought we were talking about installing from the internet so both
> netcards and modems are relevent here.
As if installing Linux via modem is feasible.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 11 Jan 2001 08:16:51 GMT
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:39:42 +0000,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> Its called *humour* Goodwin, something you seem to have no idea about.
>
>You, equally, don't understand my sense of humour.
True
>
>> >"I'm the man from UNCLE". Everyone stops, drops to their knees and starts
>> >worshipping him.
>> And you say Ebert has *cracked* !!!
>
>QED.
>
>> >I'm running Linux Mandrake 7.2 and my sound card doesn't have a driver
>> >that doesn't hang KDE2.0
>> So what since when was KDE2.0 Linux ?
>> Talk to KDE about it ?
>
>So what? Is that your answer to a problem is it?
Its my answer to *your* problem.
>
>> >Not on my 56k modem and not here in the UK. There are no free phone calls
>> >here yet.
>>
>> There are no free phone calls anywhere Goodwin, do you have a point ?
>
>In America, all local calls are free. Here in the UK, if you phone another
>subscriber on the same cable network at certain times, phone calls are free.
Wrong!
They pay a monthly fee to have those 'free' local phone calls.
Here in Australia, we get to pay the monthly fee *and* local calls.
Lucky hey ;-)
>
>If your ISP is a local phone call in America, that's a free call.
>
>Gettit?
Please see above!
>
>> >> I can be playing my Napster, downloading ftp from 3 sites, compiling a
>> >> kernel have a spreadsheet open, a word document open, and by typing
>> >> this message back
>> >> and this thing just doesn't skip a beat. You can't even dream of doing
>> >> shit like this with Windows.
>> >
>> >I've done this, so what dream?
>>
>> Really ??
>>
>> How long did it take you to compile the Windows kernel ?
>
>Oops! Missed the kernel bit. Don't matter, I could be compiling too. Just
>not the kernel.
Hence your assertion is false, don't be too hard on yourself, COLA forgives
Wintrolls too.
>
>> >And everyone would be using the CLI 'cos the GUI components you can get
>> >are so far behind Windows. Let's all stay in the '70's.
>> Goodwin has used KDE by his own admission, the CLI argument is a very old
>> and sad Wintroll argument, and Goodwin knows better. He persists with it
>> because ..
>>
>> ***** Goodwin is a Wintroll ******
>
>You don't even know what I'm talking about do you.
I think I've a good idea, and I've patiently worked my way thru your list of
emotive inaccuracies.
> You're nothing but a
>Linux twoll.
Hey I resent being called a twoll!
Seriously, I cant be a Linux Troll on COLA now can I ?
>
>> >Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>>
>> So what ?
>> You're a Windows lemming Goodwin... probably always will be.
>
>I see no cliffs. I've not jumped off any high places lately.
Sigh ..
>
>--
>Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
Gates runs Linux too, are we supposed to be impressed ?
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 11 Jan 2001 08:23:22 GMT
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:43:43 +0000,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> Ambiguous to the max as usual!
>>
>> Free Windows progs are crap, as is most Windows "shareware".
>
*Most* is what I said, not *all*.
>WinZIP is crap is it?
Nope
>
>WinAmp is crap is it?
Dunno, but I've been told its pretty good.
>
>Paint Shop Pro is crap is it?
Dunno.
>
>Oh there are plenty of crap shareware and freeware out there, but there's
>just as much good stuff.
Fair enuf, theres bound to be some good stuff.
>
>> Free Software, is a GNU term, and bears no relation to the above junk.
>
>Oh I beg your pardon.
Your pardoned, Wintroll.
>
>> >Just because it's free doesn't make it quality.
>>
>> Just because it costs doesnt make it quality.
>
>If you'd read what I'd said, you'll realise I've already said that.
No you havent.
>
>> >That's only as good and as quick as the person fixing it. If they don't
>> >or they simply lose interest, then bang does that one.
>>
>> You'e just clueless Goodwin.
>
>You're the one demonstration the lack of clue. See above.
>
>> I posted here recently how I installed a new 'Beta' MySql data entry GUI
>> and emailed the author re a bug/feature. He replied the next day *with* a
>> fix.
>
>One example.
All i needed to prove that your 'theory' holds no water.
>
>> Some here followed up and said this doesnt always happen, and that may be
>> true but its happened to me *several* times.
>
>One example.
See above.
>
>> That app "Gentry" is now working *exactly* as I need it to, following
>> several emails to the author.
>
>Still one example.
Thats all I needed.
>
>> >In an ideal world, yes, but we live in the real world.
>>
>> No Goodwin, you're still in Wonderland.
>
>In a wonderland where things work. I think I'll stay where I am.
Ahh the old Wintroll *work* again. Terse, and ambiguous.
Sadly by my definitions, Windows does NOT work.
>
>> >> Quality is most certainly part of the "Free Software Edge".
>> >
>> >Not from what I've observed.
>>
>> You're not the observant type, and as a Wintroll, you have a slight, shall
>> we say "conflict of interest" ?
>
>And you're the one demonstrating your obvious bias.
This is COLA Goodwin, bias is expected here.
>
>> >Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>>
>> Yeah perhaps you'll learn how to use it one day ?
>
>Funny, I thought I was doing just that!
Keep at it, perhaps you'll "get there" one day :)
>
>--
>Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
Only to Troll with.
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:47:27 GMT
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:32:29 +1200, Adam Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|Hi Ayende,
|
|> Have you even seen the 4Q results of SPECWeb99 ?
|> Tux just barely got the higher score, and it's a web server *no one* use.
|> IIS got just behind Tux, and it's a commonly used webserver.
|
|Thank you for alerting me to those results.
|
|I see the results you are referring to are here:
|http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2000q4/
|
|Specifically the Dell PowerEdge 8450/700. Windows 2000 Datacenter Server
|only loses to Red Hat : TUX 2.0 by a small margin.
|
|Do you know how Microsoft improved the results so much? (Also possibly
|helped by the fact that Linux still might not scale as well as the number of
|processors is increased?)
Lets see,
Linux:
5 9Gb drives, 10Krpm
1 disk for OS & logs
4 disks for data, RAID0, 2Mb Chunk size
8 network controllers
NT:
9 disks. 1 9Gb 10Krpm, 7 18Gb 15Krpm
1 disk for OS (presumably the 9Gb, 10Krpm)
6 disks for data, RAID0, chunk size not given
2 disks for logs, RAID0
7 network controllers
Hardly identical configurations.
NT is still behind, even with more & faster disk drives and better
allocation of the drive space.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 11 Jan 2001 08:53:02 GMT
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:51:48 +0000,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> >Any particular reason you're relying on ReiserFS which I've heard is
>> >still in Beta? You trust your files to a beta test file system?
>>
>> There are Beta and "Beta" systems Goodwin. The Windows 'Beta' you know
>> is totally different to the Linux Beta.
>
>Yeah, the Windows one works.
Hey your seeing evidence that the Reisfer journalled FS works right here!
This Wintroll rebuttal is brought to you compliments of the Reisfer FS :)
>
>> Yes I do trust it, Ive been running Reisferfs for about a month now,
>> *zero* problems. Got some more FUD for me Pete ?
>
>So have I. I've not seen any serious problems as yet, but... my server
>system regularly pauses for about five minutes as it tries to mount a
>ReiserFS disk.
I have no such problem here, this PC boots in the fastest time I've ever seen.
> No messages are printed so I'm not sure what's happening.
Perhaps you need a nice blue screen ?
>It carries on afterwards as if nothing happened, and everything seems fine.
>
>> >Mine cost me around the same price.
>>
>> Yet mine works and yours dosnt ?
>
>Your point?
Im a lucky guy ?
>
>> >"Free Software" is hardly an edge. Sure, in terms of price, but in terms
>> >of quality?
>>
>> Only to *you*
>>
>> You have no experience yet, with Free Software *quality*.
>
>It is self evident.
Only the fact you have no experience with Free Software is *self* evident here.
>
>> >Certainly. I'll ignore you're claim that Linux has the edge then, too.
>>
>> But I wasnt using exaggeration, you by your own admission *were*.
>
>Oh funny I thought you were. You mean you were truly series when you said
>"Linux has the edge".
100% serious.
> Yet when I try Linux, I find a mass of problems.
Wintrolls always do, its their *job* to invent problems with Linux.
>Funny, to me, having the edge would mean Linux is far better than Windows,
>yet I don't find it so.
I find Linux superior to Windows in every way.
>
>> >Ahah, depends what you're doing doesn't it. Are you a CLI user, and don't
>> >care much for GUI's?
>>
>> Nope, I use both, for any lukers out there, Linux GUI runs the CLI in a
>> windowed "xterm","Aterm","rxvt","Eterm" or whatever you like. They mate
>> perfectly.
>
>Precisely my point. You use a GUI solely for running a terminal emulator.
>In other words you're a CLI user.
And a GUI user, cant you make that mental jump Goodwin ?
>
>> For instance my newsreader "slrn" runs on a old hercules b&w monitor, as
>> well as on my main Linux box with a 17" Apple Trinitron monitor, running
>> 1024*768 and the X Windows System.
>
>A CLI user.
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
>
>> On the b&w monitor its keyboard only, on the GUI, its mouse driven. Either
>> way SLRN beats the pants of Free Agent imho.
>
>A CLI/GUI?
Supprised ?
>
>I don't use Free Agent, BTW. I use KNode.
I've heard its good.
>
>> >Windows being *closed software* and Linux being *open* sounds like a
>> >dogma. Thou shalt use no closed software before me.
>>
>> Hey I *refuse* to use *closed* software now, it cant offer what I want.
>
>That sounds like dogma. You believe devoutly it can't offer what you want,
>therefore you don't use it. It doesn't matter that there are plenty of
>commericial _closed_ applications out there that do exactly what you want,
>now does it?
But there are NOT!
>
>> Your totaly clueless Goodwin. Unix users use BOTH. Your the one in a
>> limited, glossy, eyecandy world.
>
>See above.
>
>> >Definately dogma!
>>
>> Definitely a clueless Wintroll.
>
>See above, o Linux twoll.
>
>> >Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>>
>> Only to post with, Windowsboy!
>
>And to mail with.
Posting and emailing only ?
I wonder why you bother ?
> I'd try surfing the net only konqueror has problems with
>so many sites and Netscape struggles to find the right font. This is the
>edge folks!
Goodwin has no clue about font management under Linux.
Its not supprising tho, hes a Wintroll, theyre not supposed to be able to
*use* Linux.
>
>--
>Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
Pete, using KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2 to troll with.
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The real truth about NT
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:04:16 GMT
In article <IYc76.168703$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> > 2. Disk Space - I don't think I have to say more...
>
> Yes you do. What's the problem here?
After NT and all Apps are installed, I end up with nearly twice as much
disk usage then an equavalent install on Linux.
>
>
> DBX is an application file. Wassat gotta to do with NT?
IE5 and OE5 comes with Office 2000 which everyone wants to install on
NT/2000 boxes. One has to set standards, so as most people want to work
on M$ Office, I had to draw a line somewhere (that also pleases all end
users). The solution however is not the best. For starters I would
prefer Eudora, but my end users are not interested.
> I get 100% success with Windows 98 SE. What's your point?
How much do you burn? My company burn's about 1000 CD's per month (all
custom stuff for clients).
>
>
> Then put the data where you can find it every time.
>
Thats just my point - the apps don't let you choose. You need to spend
a lot of time to get everything where you want it.
>
> Four hours? Blimey, what are you installing. NT takes around an hour.
That
> leaves three hours for applications?
Office 2K, CD-RW apps, Various Web Editing tools, Lots of Graphics tools
and the list just goes on... Most of the stuff is standard on Linux.
After I install a Linux box, the only other CD with an app on I use is
my StarOffice CD (which is not really necessary, since I install SO
from the network to the new users home dir)
>
> > Net result: The M$ TCO theory goes up in smoke!
>
> You've posted a lot of comments but very little substance.
>
> --
> Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Dodge uses Linux and Java
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:15:10 GMT
"Hagen Bauersachs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93joql$qd0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Yuck! Looks like a UGLY copy of a Audi TT.
With what's under the hood, I could live with ugly.
(I'd prefer a straight 5 speed though...)
>
> Hagen
>
> "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Got this from /. : New Dodge Super 6 Hemi uses Linux and Java
> <http://www.4adodge.com/autoshow/news/hemi.html>
> >
> > I like the specs, less HP than my Coronet and Charger, but less weight
too
> :
> > Dodge Super8 HemiŪ Preliminary Specifications
> > Powertrain
> > Engine: Prototype 353 cu. in. (5.7-liter)
> > HemiŪ V-8
> > Estimated Power: 353 bhp (263 kW)
> > Estimated Torque: 395 lb.-ft. (536 Nm)
> > Transmission: 4-speed AutoStickŪ manumatic
> > transmission
> > Drive: Rear-wheel drive
> >
> > Body & Suspension
> > Structure: Unitized body with B-pillarless
> > body side aperture
> > Suspension
> > -- Front: Independent with modified
> > MacPherson struts
> > -- Rear: Custom independent five-link with
> > coil-over-shock setup
> >
> > Wheels & Tires Wheels: 22" x 10"
> > Tires
> > -- Front: P255-740R560
> > -- Rear: P255-770R560
> >
> > Dimensions & Weight Length: 186 in. (4724 mm)
> > Width: 73.9 in. (1877 mm)
> > Height: 56.2 in. (1427 mm)
> > Wheelbase: 117.4 in. (2982 mm)
> > Track
> > -- Front: 62.5 in. (1588 mm)
> > -- Rear: 62.8 in. (1595 mm)
> > Weight: 3600 lbs. (1633 kg)
> >
> > Estimated Performance
> > 0-60 mph (0-97 kph): 5.7 sec
> > Top Speed: 154 mph (248 kph)
> > Quarter Mile, Standing Start 14.1 sec @ 101.5
> > mph (162 kph)
> > --
> > Russ
> > <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> > Not powered by ActiveX
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux vs Microsoft
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:17:42 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> > mark wrote:
> >
> > > No it's not - problems do occur. But they get fixed in linux. Nobody
> > > ever said that problems dont' occur in linux, that's a microsoft
thing.
> >
> > Last time I looked nobody was terribly interested in fixing problems
with
> > smbmount.
>
> What problems would that be?
>
> I've got LinNeighborhood at work, and it seems to mount
> smb shares with no problems. I can also mount remote
> pc or unix smb volumes from the command line.
>
> I just finished settng up autofs on a friend's Red Hat 7 box
> to automagically mount his win 2k shares on demand, and
> that's all working as it should -
How did you get around the supposed authentication problems?
(I haven't had the chance to link 2K and Linux yet...)
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The real truth about NT
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:09:18 GMT
In article <93jka0$cvc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > 6. Install time - As you might have guesed, I re-installed NT now a
> > couple of times. Average install time from scratch to a FULLY
working
> > Work Station with all apps installed takes about 4 hours (on some
> older
> > systems up to 6 hours). I have not yet re-installed a Linux system,
> but
> > a new install, with linking up to my company $HOME directory and all
> > the other bells and whistles takes less then an hour.
>
> Why don't you use Drive Image Pro? Make a copy of a partition with
> working NT and you'll restore NT in minutes. :-)
Keeping the images up to date (with any tool) proofed to be more of a
nightmare. The problem is that nearly every machine has different apps.
Further more I have a mix of platforms which gives you plenty of HW
problems.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.linux.slakware
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
does) )
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:24:33 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93isbe$fea$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy The Ghost In The Machine
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Steve Mading
> : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> : wrote
> : on 9 Jan 2001 20:58:53 GMT
> : <93fu2d$ib4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> :>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Jure Sah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :>
> :>: Yup. At least until it gets a Linuxal Basic that is better than Visual
> :>: Basic.
> :>
> :>That's already happened.
> :>
>
> : Just out of curiosity -- where?
>
> I was being somewhat sarcastic. ANY basic is "better than Visual Basic".
Well, except...maybe...Borland's TurboBasic...
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:17:49 -0600
Here in comp.os.os2.misc, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
spake unto us, saying:
>Steve Mading wrote:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> : The network and the host machine isn't involved in any of those things.
>> : Only when the Transmit key or selection function keys are hit is any
>> : sort of signal sent outside the terminal itself because the base UTS is
>> : intelligent enough to interpret the field descriptors that the host
>> : painted on its screen.
>>
>> That behaviour is only acceptable if you don't care about the ability
>> to be interactive.
>
>Which is why i hate working on IBM machines..
>
>UGH.
I find Unisys block-mode Uniscope/UTS terminals to be considerably more
flexible/intuitive than IBM 3270's, thanks.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
!enif tsuj si gnihtyrevE
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:20:16 -0600
Here in comp.os.os2.misc, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
spake unto us, saying:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>: As the programmer who maintains the mainframe text editor that many in
>: my programming group use (UEDIT on OS2200), I've decided that adding a
>: configurable item is vastly preferable to hard-coding behavior because
>: I've seen a number of occasions where my own preference set disagrees
>: quite strongly with the preferences of some of my coworkers.
>
>Aaron wasn't complaining that the behaviour was configurable. He
>was complaining that the default should be the other way around.
I was essentially telling him to be grateful that XEDIT was written as
a configurable entity, and his complaint about default settings were a
user preference issue, not a coding or design issue.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Words must be weighed, not counted.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:46:13 -0600
Here in comp.os.os2.misc, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
spake unto us, saying:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>: The network and the host machine isn't involved in any of those things.
>: Only when the Transmit key or selection function keys are hit is any
>: sort of signal sent outside the terminal itself because the base UTS is
>: intelligent enough to interpret the field descriptors that the host
>: painted on its screen.
>
>That behaviour is only acceptable if you don't care about the ability
>to be interactive.
You pay want to rephrase that to be "...ability to be interactive with
an application on the host."
However, I'd argue that much (perhaps most) of the useful interaction
is retained with a properly-designed block mode terminal, and is simply
being relocated to the local terminal, not completely removed.
When the terminal function keys and positional SOE/Xmit sequences are
handled intelligently by a fullscreen editor, it's quite amazing how
efficiently one can interact with an editor living on the host box.
(If you don't understand the basic concept of an SOE [Start-Of-Entry
character], or the ability of block-mode terminals to send a partial
screen update, I can attempt to explain it in another message).
When you think about it, a terminal only needs to interact with the
editor on the host when it actually needs to perform a host operation
(e.g., process an editor command, tell the editor about new editing
waypoints on the screen, or tell the editor about any data updates that
have been made in the current visible editing area).
If your terminal can do basic character handling on its own, the editor
only has to check its work area against the screen segments being sent
to it during each batch transmit in order to remain current, and that
saves the poor LAN quite a bit of work.
It's kind of ironic that old-style mainframes took "client/server" to
this level way back when, isn't it? ;-)
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Hi! I'm a tagline virus - copy me!
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:29:48 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:gdd76.168710$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Nigel Feltham wrote:
>
> > >We left our web server alone for two months before rebooting. That's no
> > >maintenance at all.
> >
> > Then realised it crashed one and a half months before the reboot?
>
> Nope. It was still running. I verified it to make sure. Then it crashed
8).
Some servers require an audience. <g>
Why is it that the old legacy servers you've completely forgotten about are
the ones that, when discovered, are still chugging along happily - Only to
die a day or two later? Is it fear of dying alone and forgotten that keeps
them up?
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
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