Linux-Advocacy Digest #439, Volume #31 Sat, 13 Jan 01 17:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Windows Stability ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel (Pete Goodwin)
One case where Linux has the edge (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is not UNIX(tm) (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time? (Mig)
Re: Windows Stability (Mig)
Re: you dumb. and lazy. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windows 2000 ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: The real truth about NT ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: You and Microsoft... ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: You and Microsoft... ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: I am trying Linux out for the first time. ("Bennetts family")
Re: Good read from ZDnet ("Bennetts family")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant (Lewis Miller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:56:36 GMT
"Andres Soolo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93ppe9$1b7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Nik Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> they made a stable OS. How can it be stable if "service packs"
> >> can cause a system instability?
> > Service packs replace parts of the OS, of course they can cause instability,
> > only a fool would think otherwise.
> If so, the service pack *are* parts of the OS. Are you saying that
> parts of MSW are instable?
Is Linux perfectly stable?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:59:30 GMT
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Hate to break this to you, but resier has been shipping for some time.
> > > >
> > > > Really? This must have been within the past month or two, because we
> > > > were just having this debate about that time.
> > >
> > > Suse has been shipping reiser for several versions now.
> > >
> > > So, what would that be, at least a year?
> >
> > Ah... so the falacy comes to light.
> >
> > ReiserFS itself isn't shipping. It's still in beta, and it's
> > still not stable.
> >
> > Suse, however, has been including the beta version in its
> > distributions for people to mess with, but it's, in no way,
> > the default FS because, of course, it's not stable.
> >
> > Why don't you just tell the truth, J Sloan?
>
> Perhaps your time would be better spent finding cases in which
> ReiserFS fell over in the last 9 months (if you can).
Why isn't it the default OS on all distributions if it is
so much superior to ext2fs, and it's stable, as you claim?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:25:07 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> > I just rebuilt my 166MHz server with a 30GByte ATA66 drive and an ATA100
> > controller. I reinstalled Linux Mandrake 7.2, chose some options and
>
> Why the fuck did you reinstall, shit-for-brains?
Because, oh dweeb, the original boot disk was removed.
What I'm finding is that Linux Mandrake installer has a few funnies in it -
meaning things get installed differently or don't work at all.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: One case where Linux has the edge
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:30:48 +0000
Well, this is a surprise!
My rebuilt 166MHz PC has a new 30GByte drive, a ATA100 controller and a new
CDRW.
MSDOS cannot see the CDRW. The ATAPI driver can't see it, neither can the
device specific driver. It would seem that because the controller is
appearing after the motherboard IDE, it's not seen (despite the fact I
disabled the mobo IDE in its BIOS).
Linux, on the other hand, happily saw the controller, the CDRW and
installed.
Now to see if it can burn CDR's!
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Linux is not UNIX(tm)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:32:29 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:18:37 -0600
<jhK66.585$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
[snip]
>Why do you suppose it is that Aaron is only capable of making stupid
>comments on other peoples facts (without snipping any irrelevant text),
>rather than coming up with logical, well thought out statements of his own?
>
>I'd wager that 90% of aaron's posts are one or two sentances with 100x more
>quoted material.
>
And I should care what Aaron does precisely why?
At least he shows intelligence, unlike some others who seem
to like to change their names every week in order to attempt
to sucker newbies into using The Better Operating System(tm),
with New Technology(tm), Real Network Transparency(tm), and
More Reliability Than Unix(tm). :-)
(Spot The Sarcasm)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- not to mention Lots Of Credibility(tm) :-)
EAC code #191 2d:23h:52m actually running Linux.
The US gov't spends about $54,000/second. I wish I could.
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time?
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:32:51 +0100
Joseph T. Adams wrote:
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : "Mig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:93o1ek$leb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> Well.. it sure looks like lots of the old MS faces are leaving the
> :> ship. The shares are down from near 120 to under 50 in about one
> :> year... i think the dumping started long ago.
>
> : The shares will go back up. No matter what happens with the antitrust
> : trial, they will go up. If they're split, existing shareholders will
> : get
> : shares in both companies, thus doubling their holdings. If they stay
> : together, then confidence will remain and shares will go back up.
> : Either way, this is a short term situation.
>
>
> If you really believe that, then you have a great opportunity to
> profit by putting your money where your mouth is.
Maybe he can get some advice from Drestin.... He claimed to have bought
loads of MS stocks during the Linux craze.... Hmmm.. he's not here at the
moment.. maybe he had to sell his PC because of his losses.
--
Cheers
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:34:10 +0100
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Andres Soolo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:93ppe9$1b7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Nik Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >> they made a stable OS. How can it be stable if "service packs"
> > >> can cause a system instability?
> > > Service packs replace parts of the OS, of course they can cause
> > > instability, only a fool would think otherwise.
> > If so, the service pack *are* parts of the OS. Are you saying that
> > parts of MSW are instable?
>
> Is Linux perfectly stable?
Yes
--
Cheers
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: you dumb. and lazy.
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:39:18 -0500
ono wrote:
>
> > You moron....
> > Linux doesn't have any "DLL Hell", ignorant twit.
> > Linux libraries are properly versioned, and successive versions of the
> > same library can be kept on the same system without conflict.
> And thats why linux suffers from bloat! Because every program comes with
> it's own statically linked version of the same shit. MS at least tried to do
> something.
Dumbshit. Statically linked libraries were abandoned years ago.
> But you're right, dll versioning (even with) COM fails sometimes (but NEVER
> when you run MS only software).
> ok! it's not never...... it's nearly never.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:40:07 -0500
ono wrote:
>
> > WHAT?! Linux is totaly a Server OS. Notice how it comes with Apache (Web
> > Server), SendMail (Mail Server), Wu-FTP (FTP Server), TelnetD (Telnet
> > server), NameD (DNS Server), etc.. it's all about being a server.
> > Windows is a workstation OS.. and that's about the extent of what I want
> to
> > use it for.
> Did you know that windows2000 comes with iis5. It's not installed by
> default, but you
> have it running with 2 mouse-clicks (and NO REBOOT). You should try that
> sometime.
too little
too late
so solly
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:45:37 -0500
ono wrote:
>
> > Did you know that windows2000 comes with iis5. It's not installed by
> > default, but you
> > have it running with 2 mouse-clicks (and NO REBOOT). You should try that
> > sometime.
> Ups.... sorry I didn't do my research propperly. It's more like 10
> mouse-clicks (a wizard ;-)) and it does need a reboot.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Only a LoseDOS retard thinks of this as any sort of accomplishment.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:43:46 -0600
"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93q4j9$poc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I always like how people like this continualy claim to have problems
> with Linux but when I review his posting history on Deja, not a single
> post to a technical news group. Seems very odd to me.
My personal opinion is that if I can't find a solution in Deja, then it's
highly unlikely that posting will solve the problem.
On top of that, I want a solution now, not in several hours, so i'd rather
spend the time in search engines.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:46:47 -0600
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> So massage the data. It isn't that difficult and can be done as the file
> is loaded. Either that or change the name and quit calling your Apple
> application Excel. If it is Excel and is *.xls, it should be readable by
> Excel everywhere. Or one of the products isn't Excel.
> The real truth is that Excel for the PC is so tied to the PC that MS
> couldn't port it. So they wrote another product that had a UI similar to
> Excel and called it Excel even though it isn't.
Uhh.. you are aware that Excel was first developed for the Mac and then
ported the PC, right?
So much for your theory.
> >Why would a
> > native Mac word document store it's data in PC format when such
> > interchangeability is not necessary very often (especially not when the
file
> > formats were created 10 years ago).
> So cross platform, per you and MS, means the user interface looks the
> same, but you can't transfer documents or files between platforms? I
> love this. Word is cross platform because MS makes a version for both
> PCs and Macs. Just don't try to exchange *.doc or *.xls files!
You can transfer files between them, you just use a converter.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The real truth about NT
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:49:10 -0600
"Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > "Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Very few people mastering CD's outside of the sort of enviroment
> > > > > where there would be a special machine dedicated to the purpose
> > > > > stress machines to the level where it should be an issue.
> > > >
> > > > Just kick of a kernel compile.
> > > >
> > > Well, just to try out if my SCSI-only system would stand the strain, I
> > > did exactly that -- I made a CD AND did a kernel recompile while at
the
> > > same time browsing the net.
> >
> > The key word here is SCSI. Most people burn IDE CD-R's (and those are
the
> > ones they burn coasters on when heavy disk activity causes them to get a
> > buffer underrun)
> >
> It's not. The same system once had NT4 installed. Doing anything similar
> on NT would ALWAYS result in a badly toasted CD. Just TRY to tell the
truth
> sometimes, it does not hurt
If that's the case, you probably had your SCSI card configured wrong so that
it didn't disconnect devices when needed.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:50:22 -0600
"Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > "Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Right. First, remote rural areas can't get 56K, thus you were
> > connecting
> > > > at
> > > > speeds of under 33.6, probably under 28.8. Let's just say 28.8.
> > > > Since there are 10 bits in each byte over modem (8 bits, 1 start, 1
> > > > stop bit)
> > > > that's 2880 bytes a second. To download 100 meg would take 9.6
hours.
> > > > Even a basic Linux machine will be at least 300 Meg, so that's over
27
> > > > hours, or
> > > > more than a day. Not "overnight".
> > > >
> > > Sure, Windows would do that MUCH faster.
> > > And what if I live in a city and have DSL (which I have).
> > > This is at least 40 times as fast as your scenario above.
> > > But even then, windows will fail
> >
> > DSL is not a dialup modem. The point was that it's really not feasible
to
> > install Linux over a dialup modem.
> >
> Are you really that dense?
> DSL can be like a Modem in any way you like, including need to connect,
> getting new IP every time, all that.
> DSL is for a new system to be installed in EVERY respect like a modem,
only
> faster. The system does not know what kind of hardware is making the
> connection and it should not. It should be just as transparent as it is.
> Accept that windows just can't do this, linux can, and thats it.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about how *LONG* it takes
to download, you're talking about hardware. Try sticking to the same
subject.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:51:19 -0600
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Even a basic Linux machine will be at least 300 Meg, so that's over 27
> >> hours, or more than a day. Not "overnight".
>
> A "minimal" install of Caldera eDesktop is about 120 MB, IIRC. Includes
> X but not many apps. A custom install can be smaller than that, esp if
> you get rid of the X servers.
Why would you do that for some farmer that has never used Linux?
------------------------------
From: "Bennetts family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I am trying Linux out for the first time.
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:57:11 +1100
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:_YK76.1170$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > But they ALSO don't want to have to bluescreen and reboot at
> > unpredictable and frequent intervals;
>
> That's bullshit. Most people don't have frequent bluescreens under Win9x.
> Unpredictable, perhaps, but then how predictable is a kernel panic?
No, *that's* bullshit. I had a freaking BSoD this morning when I booted this
box up. It hadn't even finished booting (take two was more sucessful). BTW,
I find Windows crashes/freezes/BSoDs very regular: every 4 hours. I'm glad
I've got LM7.2 working on the other partition, it won't take me much to
switch over full time (damn games...).
> The reason (and it is quite defensible) is that it is the easiest and
> cheapest solution. 30 minutes and your system is back and running, while
> you might otherwise spend hours figuring out the problem otherwise.
30 minutes for a Windows reinstall? Hmmm, 2h for Win98SE, another 1.5h for
IE5.5, half an hour for FS98, .75h for drivers, plus another 4 for 5 hours
for actual applications (C++Builder, Delphi, JBuilder, StarOffice, Word
Viewer, Acrobat, graphics software for my scanner, etc), plus another hour
to get my usual complement of GNU software (DJGPP, Bash, fileutils,
shellutils, Emacs). That's about 10 hours.
> > Linux and Windows both have problems, but the problems of Linux are
> > solvable and in fact are being solved rapidly, whereas neither appears
> > to be true of Windows.
>
> 7 years is rapidly?
WTF?
> > Many desktop-oriented Linux apps may seem immature compared to their
> > Windows counterparts, but, compared to those same apps at a similar
> > point in time after their release, they look an awful lot better to
> > me, and they're improving far more rapidly as well.
>
> I don't really see that. How long was KDE2 in development? 2+ years?
The
> problem with open source is that everyone wants to be implementing the
> latest whiz bang feature, but doesn't want to do maintenance unless it's
> serious problem. That leaves thousands of tiny issues that nobody finds
> "sexy" enough to fix, but all give a bad user experience.
That's not true. The big things get fixed quicxkly because they are more
important. That said, most problems get sorted soon enough, because almost
every problem is interesting/easy to someone.
> There goes the "Linux isn't competition for Windows" theory.
Windows will be dead before we know it.
--Chris
The desktop metaphor sucks.
------------------------------
From: "Bennetts family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Good read from ZDnet
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:04:33 +1100
"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93pvva$m8k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise/stories/main/0,10228,2673376,00.html
Definitely. Thanks!
--Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lewis Miller)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: 13 Jan 2001 22:01:03 GMT
ono was heard ranting about <93q0jg$c45$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in
alt.linux.sux on 13 Jan 2001
>> WHAT?! Linux is totaly a Server OS. Notice how it comes with Apache (Web
>> Server), SendMail (Mail Server), Wu-FTP (FTP Server), TelnetD (Telnet
>> server), NameD (DNS Server), etc.. it's all about being a server.
>> Windows is a workstation OS.. and that's about the extent of what I want
>> to use it for.
>Did you know that windows2000 comes with iis5. It's not installed by
>default, but you
>have it running with 2 mouse-clicks (and NO REBOOT). You should try that
>sometime.
Yes, I'm running Windows 2000, on my workstation. It's fine for the
workstation. IIS5 is bloated and not that great. Go pick up Notes if you
want to pay for software.
--
l8r
-LJM
a.k.a. Jaster Mereel
a.k.a. MrBobaFett
"Little things used to mean so much to Shelly. I used to think
they were kind of trivial. Believe me, nothing's trivial. "
-- Eric Draven, The Crow
------------------------------
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