Linux-Advocacy Digest #891, Volume #31 Thu, 1 Feb 01 13:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy! (Craig Kelley)
Re: Who was saying Crays don't run Linux? ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions? ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: The 130MByte text file (George Richard Russell CS1997)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) (Champ Clark III)
Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code (Craig Kelley)
Re: Microsoft is under pressure from Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The 130MByte text file ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: KULKIS IS A MISERABLE PIECE OF SHIT ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: The 130MByte text file (Aaron Ginn)
Re: Best way to learn Linux? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code (jtnews)
Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy! (Nick Condon)
Re: Linux headache ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code (Aaron Ginn)
Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy!
Date: 01 Feb 2001 09:12:58 -0700
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > But of course, remember, this is pete's special
> > horked up computer - he set it up so he could
> > "counter linux advocacy"...
>
> There's nothing special about this machine. It's an out-of-the box
> Linux Mandrake 7.2 installation.
Would this be the same system that you tried to compile a kernel on
and failed?
I wouldn't call it out-of-the-box after some clueless person (no
offense) tried to use advanced features and destroyed the system in
the process.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who was saying Crays don't run Linux?
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:16:35 -0600
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> The topic, is someone stating that Linux is running on Cray supercomputers
> based on a link. The real fact is that it's not a Cray supercomputer, it's
> a Cray cluster of average computers. Yet in your hurry to slam everything,
> you don't bother to understand what you're commenting on.
Cray's "supercomputers" have been big piles of Alpha processors for years.
The only significant difference is that they are now pushing them with Linux
on them.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:12:54 -0600
Adam Warner wrote:
> This is not a prediction: Microsoft desperately wants student mindshare and
> to engender a feeling of community.
As I mentioned in another thread, IBM is visiting the Department of Computer
Sciences at UTAustin this week, and their major internship recruitment pull is
the opportunity to work on one of their many OSS projects. (They also have a
speaker giving a talk on Linux' SMP scalability.) I was *very* delighted to
see this.
However, I think IBM is way ahead of where most undergraduates' minds really
are right now. Only a tiny fraction of incoming freshmen in CS run anything
but Windows on their computers. (I base this on a couple of semesters' of
informal show-of-hand surveys that I did.) Even among the upper-division
students, a surprisingly large fraction isn't interested in learning anything
other than how to use that One True Product (tm) that will get them a
high-paying job when they graduate.
Frankly, I suspect that about half of all the world's CS students are primarily
interested in the guarantee of a high-paying job rather than in the subject
matter, and MS can easily leverage that mindset by discounting or giving away
products that will lock students in to a proprietary solution.
Of course, as MS's image continues to grow moss, students will become less and
less interested in marrying the company. Also, students who only want to learn
one solution presumably aren't among the best and brightest, so it may be that
MS is locking in the "low end" mindshare, but letting the ones most likely to
innovate slip through their grasp.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (George Richard Russell CS1997)
Subject: Re: The 130MByte text file
Date: 1 Feb 2001 16:21:29 -0000
Since both emacs and vim are available for Windows, how can they be better
than themselves?
fwiw, should you not be rotating your logs before they reach that sort of size
anyway?
HTH
HAND
George Russell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Champ Clark III)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: 1 Feb 2001 11:33:39 -0500
In article <95bh0f$t75$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>
>> > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> > > Is it true that windows 2000 finally got filesystem quotas
>> > > somewhat similar to what Linux has had for years?
>> >
>> > Yes.
>> > Is it true that Linux finally got the SMP support that NT had for years?
>>
>> Linux has had smp support since version 1.1.31.
>
>And it was *bad*.
>
>> That was ~1995.
>
>NT had it since 3.1 (from the start, that is).
You still dodged something here. That was quota's that
got this little thing going. I'll bet that quota'ing is in more
use then say, hrmm.. Mulit-CPU's? Hell, Novell has quota's!
VMS has had quotas for years! I can't even think of a *nix that
doesn't have a quota'ing system for it...... What took so long?
--
If it wasn't for C, we'd be using BASI, PASAL and OBOL.
- Author unknown
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code
Date: 01 Feb 2001 09:38:34 -0700
"al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-4678406-0.html?tag=3Dmn_hd
I love this quote:
"We don't want to be in the situation that Linux is in, where there
are more than 140 different distributions, leading to serious
fragmentation," Miller said.
You gotta love Microsoft, they're always looking out for our best
interests. We wouldn't want more than *one* distribution, now would
we Miller?
And, I've never been bothered by the 140+ distributions (I'm sure he's
counting Tom's Root Boot and Phat Linux in that ridiculous number). I
also hope he know he isn't fooling *anybody* with this FUD, in fact it
rings rather childish.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Microsoft is under pressure from Linux
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:33:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[-snip-]
> My best advice to anyone reading this is if you hold Microsoft
> Stock, you might want to be thinking about your Wife and Family
> about now. You can still sell that Stock and get out now,
> so you don't bankrupt your family and be forced to retire in
> a trailer park....
>
> Just an idea...
>
> Charlie
>
>
You have been advising to Bill Gates, I believe? On L.A. news this
morning was a report he just unload 10,000,000 shares. A small percent,
but according to business reporter that was enough to caused MSFT to
drop another 5$US.
Bill Gates in trailer park, now I would pay money to see that!
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The 130MByte text file
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:28:27 GMT
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 09:12:57 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Someone here tried to tell me that AbiWord was a wonderful package and
>that I can't compare it to anything on Windows.
>
>Imagine my surprise when I load a 0.5MByte file into it and it has the
>heebie-jeebies. It redraws incorrectly, it hangs, it redraws etc. Then
>I press CTRL-A to select everything, and... it redraws incorrectly, it
>hangs and so on. I even took snapshots of it that I may post if y'all
>start calling me a liar.
>
>And then I'm told PFE can't load a 100MByte file, in fact not even
>close to that. So I tried it, and what a surprise! Not only does it
>load more than 100MBytes it goes on to create a 130MByte file, reload
>it all with no problems!
>
>I then tried Linux with this stupendous file. VIM handled it with no
>problems - though I question why PFE and VIM took so long to load it.
>Editors used to work by only loading what was needed, not the whole
>file.
>
>So I tried KEDit of KDE 2.0. Oops! It crashed.
>
>So I tried the Advanced Editor... oh dear, my desktop is hung! Mouse
>stuck, terminal stuck, the whole shebang has frozen!
>
>As I have no TELNET access, I'm stuck (and so is anyone else who only
>has one PC and no network access).
>
>This is the wonderfully stable system that is Linux folks!
>
>Now, I must try a few GNOME editors and see if they fare any better.
>How about StarOffice, what will it do with this file? Or what about
>Microsoft's word? Will it barf, do you think?
>
>--
>---
>Pete
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
One word: EMACS. 'Nuff said. Nothing else even comes close. For
really big text files, EMACS outshines all others. (Back in the old
days, Borland's BRIEF was pretty good, but I think they discontinued
it.)
Most editors on both Windows and Linux are lame when confronted with
really big files. vi and EMACS are still being used for a good
reason: they work and they work well.
quux111
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Wow, an actual survey (Linux dissatisfactions and wish-lists)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2 Feb 2001 02:53:18 +1100
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> - 54% Configuring hardware/devices
>> - 38% User interface shortcomings
>Well, well, well. What a surprise.
But of course, one could also ask "Which is the largest of the Benelux
countries?". The answers wouldn't say anything about the absolute size
of those countries, just thre relative ones.
Bernie
P.S.: BTW, Pete --- care to speculate how the 248% of listed replies
would be distributed for other OSs? Like, say, W2k, MacOS 9,
BeOS and OS/2?
--
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
Franklin D. Roosevelt
US president 1933-45
Inaugural address, 4 March 1953
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: KULKIS IS A MISERABLE PIECE OF SHIT
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:28:40 +0000
In article <ml8e6.5849$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Edward Rosten writes:
>
>>> Marty writes:
>
>>>> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>>>>> Marty wrote:
>
>>>>>> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Marty wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has now moved on from that.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, the situation hasn't changed. I'm still ignoring
>>>>>>>>>> Malloy like I was at the beginning of the thread, and Malloy is
>>>>>>>>>> still posting his ridiculous responses like he was at the
>>>>>>>>>> beginning of the thread. He hasn't moved on.
>
>>>>>>>>> That part of the situation has changed, but Marty has since
>>>>>>>>> joined in, which means that some parts of the situation have
>>>>>>>>> changed.
>
>>>>>>>> Actually, the situation hasn't changed. I'm still ignoring
>>>>>>>> Tholen, and have been for over a month. Dave is still posting
>>>>>>>> his ridiculous response like he had in other threads. He hasn't
>>>>>>>> moved on.
>
>>>>>>> Who is Dave?
>
>>>>>> Haven't you been paying attention?
>
>>>>> I thought I had, but I mus have missed the relavent post.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who is dave?
>
>>>> More evidence of your reading comprehension problems. Dave is none
>>>> other than Tholen.
>
>>> On what basis do you make that claim, Marty?
>
>> Tholen, are you Dave?
>
> Which one, Letterman?
I don't know.
are you the `Dave' that Marty and Kulkis refer to?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:31:33 +0000
> But why do they need both "OPEN" and "Open" ?
Only Linsux loosers can't tell that OPEN is better than open.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:37:07 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charlie Ebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Thu, 01 Feb 2001 06:25:26 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
[snip for brevity]
>Never underestimate the draining effect of the $$$$ Ray Microsoft
>shoots at your wallet when you play *THEIR* game.
>
>And my verdict: YES, Microsoft is dead.
I wish they'd stop moving, then. Zombie companies confuse me. :-)
>
>Charlie
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 3d:21h:59m actually running Linux.
>>> Make Signatures Fast! <<<
------------------------------
From: Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The 130MByte text file
Date: 01 Feb 2001 10:15:49 -0700
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In article <95bilm$t3d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Whos the idiot? Abiword is pretty much alfa with lots of features
> lacking..
> > just select some features like Insert->Pagenumbers and see the result
>
> It's in one of the currently active threads in this group.
I've tried AbiWord, and I'll have to agree with you. It's not ready
for prime time.
> > Who the heck uses a GUI based editor to edit 130 MB files. Everybody
> with 3
> > braincells less than you - that makes everyone with 24 braincells or
> more -
> > would use a stream editor like sed for that kind of work or write a
> script
> > to do it.
>
> So, what should a KDE user use (other than a CLI based editor)?
How many KDE users are going to be editing 130MB files? Not many
newbies. What exactly is this 130MB file anyway? That's _huge_ for a
text file. The largest ascii file I can think of that's on our system
is 284MB:
ginn@coronado ginn $ ll qp1_r1.def
-rwxr-xr-x 1 ginn mda 284874134 Feb 1 09:47 qp1_r1.def*
That file contains CAD information for a _huge_ VLSI design we built.
What exactly is this file you're trying to open? Neither vi nor
Xemacs will open mine. vi opens it as far as it can before giving me
a 'Tmp file too large' message. Xemacs simply tells me the buffer is
too big. vim _does_ open it.
If people want to edit files of that size, they need to learn how to
use the tools for the job, (i.e. sed, perl, awk, etc.) not some GUI
tool that will collapse under the load. I seriously doubt that Word
would do anything other than hang trying to open that. Of course if
it did open it, it would try to save it as a .doc file as well and
would probably double the size.
<snip>
> > Youre to poor to use Linux.. or youre lying.. didnt you have several
> > machines in a network.. I do remenber you had Linux and Windows machines
> > connect... Does the windows box not have telnet?
>
> My Linux box has a broken telnet server, hence I can't login. I suppose
> I could wire up a serial port but they're both already in use.
Did you use a Ctrl-Alt-F[2-6] key to login to another console? You
can then kill the process using top.
> > Yes.... it is wonderfull stable when not deliberately trying to breadk
>
> So all the statements about Linux are, what, false?
No. Linux is very stable, but you're using the wrong tools for the
job. And you're problems are not with Linux, they're with X windows
and the application you're using.
> > it... Actually i tryed this on Windows with wordpad and i got a
> > bluescreen..
>
> I'll try WordPad.
I think I'll try my 284 MB file at home tonight with various Windows
editors to see what kind of results I get.
--
Aaron J. Ginn Phone: 480-814-4463
Motorola SemiCustom Solutions Pager: 877-586-2318
1300 N. Alma School Rd. Fax : 480-814-4463
Chandler, AZ 85226 M/D CH260 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Best way to learn Linux?
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:46:21 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charlie Ebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:34:49 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <NP3d6.243$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>"Michel Catudal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> The best way to learn Linux is like with a language, you plunge into
>>> it. Install Linux on your PC and do most of your computing with it.
>>> There are tons of compilers that you can play with.
>>> Get some good books too. The online doc is usefull but will never
>>> replace a good book.
>>
>>That works great if you have the extra time to devote to figuring things
>>out.
>>
>
>I suppose he's probably NEVER owned an HP calculator.
>
>Funnier still, he probably doesn't have a VCR either.
>
>Don't forget about your last encounter with the
>clock on the microwave EF.
>
>Remember your agreement with the clock on the Microwave!
A comment on UI may be of interest here.
I know of three microwave models. One is the one I have at home, which
is more or less easy to use: punch in the number (minutes, seconds)
and then START, or a predefined key (which starts for you). On occasion,
especially in California (grumble grumble), I have to set the time, which
is done by pressing CLOCK, the time, and then CLOCK again.
A second microwave requires one to punch in TIME first, then the
number, then START. I find this less obvious. However, the method
to set the clock is the same, as I recall.
A third microwave has a largish alphanumeric/pixellated display, complete
with help instructions and four generic buttons, with a keypad. It's
slightly intimidating, although it's meant not to be. I don't know
if it has a time of day clock or not.
Now, which one's the most "intuitive"? (Hi Tholen! :-) )
>
>
>>Some people need to get their work done in a timely manner, and digging
>>through man pages and books for solutions they already know in the other OS
>>is unproductive and loses them money.
>>
>
>Well, some people were just born dumbasses.
>
>I remember much the same argument when Windows came to town.
>People were saying, What is this fucking thing!
>
>Then if we go back in time, the introduction of the mainframe!
>File cabinets are BETTER!
>
>Overtime all these objectors just died.
You will refer to them as folders.
You will refer to them as cabinet files.
You will want us to trademark the term Windows.
You will love our tools and pay us money every time you use them.
Pay no attention to the OS behind the curtain! :-)
>
>Charlie
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- New Technology? Not There. No Thanks. Nice Trap!
EAC code #191 3d:21h:03m actually running Linux.
All hail the Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh)!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:46:50 -0500
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code
Craig Kelley wrote:
> And, I've never been bothered by the 140+ distributions (I'm sure he's
> counting Tom's Root Boot and Phat Linux in that ridiculous number). I
> also hope he know he isn't fooling *anybody* with this FUD, in fact it
> rings rather childish.
I agree! Since when is having more than
one option a liability!!! It's kind of
silly. As long as there is just
one linux kernel that people can
program to with one consistent API,
that's all that matters!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Subject: Re: Lookout! The winvocates have a new FUD strategy!
Date: 1 Feb 2001 17:45:55 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) wrote in
<958j9d$ru7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> > > Star Office is FREELY DOWNLOADABLE FROM SUN, you MORON.
>> >
>> > He was talking about out of the box, o buffoon.
>>
>> And your point is?
>
>Obviously lost on you.
>
>What does "out of the box" mean, I wonder?
>
>In any case, freely downloadable from Sun is a bit moot if all you've
>got is a 56k modem and a phone line that charges for every minute you're
>attached. Hint: there are no free calls in the UK.
You and I both know you made that up, but for the benefit of the non-Brits
out there, most ISPs offer some sort of unmetered access in the UK for
about 10 pounds per month. You can get 24 x 7 unmetered, but these
accounts are more expensive.
Yet another -10 credibility points.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:56:38 +0000
> My thinking is that Windows advocates can be an asset. I want more of
> them pointing out the places where Linux needs improvement, I want more
> Mindcraft comparisons. Like in most human endeavor, competition is a
It is true. That did bring about improvements.
> motivating element in Linux development. Since a lot of linux
> development is not directly supported financially, it's possible the
> emotional component is the most important one here. It serves my
> purposes if the Linux community is embarrassed by the technical
Its technical inferiority to what?
> inferiority of Linux. If we live in denial about how bad Linux
> technology is, we lose the motivation to improve it.
It's not bad. It could be improved in certain aread, but its far from bad.
> It's for this reason that I admire de Icaza who openly admits ``Unix
That's an opinion. One with which I disagree.
> sucks,'' and Torvalds, who openly admits that he was in denial about
> the Mindcraft loss, and Stallman, who maintains that OSS is not about
GNU was always about freedom and always will be. However, the fact
remains that the GNU tools are/were of a much higher quality than the
ones provided by commercial unicies.
> quality but freedom. I'm not so sure about people who wear rose
> colored glasses and don't realistically address the serious failings of
> OSS.
Which serious failings are you referring to?
>>> Do you mean to claim that you can't get a kernel panic by doing the
>>> above? That's just not so. You can, and it's not so hard in fact.
>>
>> Yes, you can get a kernel panic by building a kernel with bad
>> parameters. The same ESR you mentioned above is working on a better
>> build system to help prevent this, but in the meantime you actually
>> don't need to rebuild the kernel if you don't want to. The so-called
>> "average user" won't have any reason to do that with modern distros.
>
> I'm aware of efforts to address the problems with Linux. However, I've
> watched many of these efforts procede painfully slowly over time and I
> remain skeptical until they materialize.I don't say the problems will
> never go away, I just say they are here now and will be here for some
> time.
>
> What the Linux community needs to do is stop making excuses for things
> like this. Maybe you've been numbed to it, but the rest of the world
> would consider it mind blowingly bizarre that an end user would ever,
> for any reason, need to contemplate setting hundreds of parameters and
> rebuilding the kernel.
You don't undersatnd the Linux community very well: the people who create it
are the end users. I know I can speak for some people whan I say that we
don't really care what the rest of the world thinks. This is a system
made bu us for us.
> And this is only the beginning of the technical
> deficiencies of the Linux environment. There are numerous other mind
> blowing technical deficits in Linux, like the absense of serious
> printing
> technology,
That's not true, unless you consider postscript to be deficient. Also
some of the new environments provide printing models.
> inferior font technology, a total lack of standardization
> about initialization scripts,
That's not a technological deficiency. Besides, why does it matter? If we
all had to use the same scripts then there would be no way to choose a
set better suited to your purpose.
> an absense of detailed documentation,
There is probably more documentation for Linux than any other OS.
> lack of uniformity in user interface design, etc., etc.
Many people don't consider it a deficiency. Since it does not hinder my
work in any way, it isn't a deficiency for me.
> At the same
> time, there's this weird propaganda that buried somewhere down deep in
> Linux there is powerful technology that can be unlocked by the
> sophisticated user. What this mysterious technology is, is never
> specified, but it must be awesome if Linux users can go without the
> bare necessities like tranparent handling of device drivers,
Are you on crack or have ypu never used Linux. Look in /dev next time you
get the chance.
> decent
> printing, fonts, etc.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft opening Windows source code
Date: 01 Feb 2001 10:31:42 -0700
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-4678406-0.html?tag=3Dmn_hd
>
> I love this quote:
>
> "We don't want to be in the situation that Linux is in, where there
> are more than 140 different distributions, leading to serious
> fragmentation," Miller said.
>
> You gotta love Microsoft, they're always looking out for our best
> interests. We wouldn't want more than *one* distribution, now would
> we Miller?
>
> And, I've never been bothered by the 140+ distributions (I'm sure he's
> counting Tom's Root Boot and Phat Linux in that ridiculous number). I
> also hope he know he isn't fooling *anybody* with this FUD, in fact it
> rings rather childish.
Man, I've gotten some good laughs the last couple of days from all the
nonsense Doug Miller has been uttering. The statements he's made are
so easily refutable and so utterly ludicrous that I have to wonder if
secretly he is a Linux advocate. ;)
--
Aaron J. Ginn Phone: 480-814-4463
Motorola SemiCustom Solutions Pager: 877-586-2318
1300 N. Alma School Rd. Fax : 480-814-4463
Chandler, AZ 85226 M/D CH260 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Aspects of open-source that MS will co-opt: Predictions?
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:06:35 -0000
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:12:54 -0600, Bobby D. Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Adam Warner wrote:
>
>> This is not a prediction: Microsoft desperately wants student mindshare and
>> to engender a feeling of community.
>
>As I mentioned in another thread, IBM is visiting the Department of Computer
>Sciences at UTAustin this week, and their major internship recruitment pull is
>the opportunity to work on one of their many OSS projects. (They also have a
>speaker giving a talk on Linux' SMP scalability.) I was *very* delighted to
>see this.
>
>However, I think IBM is way ahead of where most undergraduates' minds really
>are right now. Only a tiny fraction of incoming freshmen in CS run anything
>but Windows on their computers. (I base this on a couple of semesters' of
>informal show-of-hand surveys that I did.) Even among the upper-division
>students, a surprisingly large fraction isn't interested in learning anything
>other than how to use that One True Product (tm) that will get them a
>high-paying job when they graduate.
...yeah, but isn't one of the PHB arguments that Windows server
products require less expensive expertise in your talent pool?
[deletia]
--
>> Yes. And the mailer should never hand off directly to a program
>> that allows the content to take control.
>
>Well most mailers can, so I guess they all suck too.
Yup.
Candy from strangers should be treated as such.
|||
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