Linux-Advocacy Digest #457, Volume #32 Sat, 24 Feb 01 22:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Gregory L. Hansen)
LPI Certification Resource Website ("Martin Kai")
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (Shane Phelps)
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux ("Edward Rosten")
Re: The Windows guy. ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. ("Dann Corbit")
Re: State of linux distros ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Norman D. Megill)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
[OT] (Was: Something Seemingly Simple) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: M$ doing it again! ("Erik Funkenbusch")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gregory L. Hansen)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,demon.local
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: 25 Feb 2001 01:49:35 GMT
In article <978p1p$gpk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:978knj$p4p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm section 53
>> >
>> > (4) A person who makes a disclosure to any other person of anything that
>> > he
>> > is required by a section 49 notice to keep secret shall be guilty of an
>> > offence and liable-
>> >
>> > (a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not
>> > exceeding
>> > five years or to a fine, or to both
>>
>> I think that these are some of the worst laws that have ever been passed.
>
>Not by a long shot.
>http://www.dumblaws.com/
>
>Here are some examples:
>In South Carolina, merchandise may not be sold within a half mile of a
>church unless fruit is being sold.
>In Norway, you may not spay your female dog or cat. However, you may neuter
>the males of the species.
>In Iowa, Kisses may last for no more than five minutes,
>a.. One-armed piano players must perform for free.
>a.. A man with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public.
It's against the law to cross the Minnesota border with a duck on your
head.
--
"'No user-serviceable parts inside.' I'll be the judge of that!"
------------------------------
From: "Martin Kai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LPI Certification Resource Website
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:48:57 -0800
You are invited to participate and build a free LPI (Linux Professional
Institute) Certification website. See www.lpicert.com
Cheers!
LPICert Team.
For more information about LPI Certification see www.lpi.org
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:53:28 +1100
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > > "Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Chad,
> > > >
> > > > We're still waiting for all this evidence about shoddy encryption in SSH
> > > >
> > > > Please enlighten us
> > > >
> > > > BTW, I've taken the liberty of cross-posting this to comp.security.ssh
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > I've already listed the exploits. They may have been patched, but how
> > > many systems out there are patched? If SSH is so great, why then does
> > > it have so many vulnerabilities?
> > >
> > > Why is SSH1 considered "fundamentally flawed" by its own makers?
> > >
> >
> > Chad,
> >
> > The people who *really* know how ssh works have explained to you time
> > and time again in detail where you are wrong, and why.
> > To recap:
> >
> > YOU are the one alleging weakness and extreme vulnerability, YOU need
> > to provide the evidence. BTW, your allegation was of shoddy encryption,
> > not "fundamental flaws".
>
> The SSH1 protocol had many failures and "flaws" and was therefore
> shoddy encryption, or a shoddy implementation as a whole. There are
> new vulnerabilities for SSH2 which suggests that SSH2 isn't all
> that much better. The fact that they are patched is mainly irrelevant.
> With other trusted security applications, the providers have a network
> of notifications that notify consumers of flaws in their products
> immediately and do everything they can to get the people to apply
> patches.
>
> With SSH, there are STILL MANY SSH1 installations and there doesn't
> seem to be any effort or concern in the community to upgrade. This
> concerns me greatly and it should concern you as well.
>
> What's even worse, some of the people that work on the project
> seek to insult and mock those who raise concerns.
>
> Is this how security is treated in the Open Source realm? With
> childish insults and assinine comments and no real concern?
>
> -Chad
Christ Almighty Chad, you are persistent aren't you?
I'll leave aside requoting most of my previous post wherein I rehashed
the subject yet again, which you so considerately snipped
Neither the ssh protocol nor the implementation provides the encryption.
The encryption is provided by one or more of a number of crypto algorithms,
as defined in the SSH IETF draft:
http://www.openssh.com/txt/draft-ietf-secsh-transport-09.txt
3des-cbc REQUIRED three-key 3DES in CBC mode
blowfish-cbc RECOMMENDED Blowfish in CBC mode
twofish256-cbc OPTIONAL Twofish in CBC mode,
with 256-bit key
twofish-cbc OPTIONAL alias for "twofish256-cbc" (this
is being retained for
historical reasons)
twofish192-cbc OPTIONAL Twofish with 192-bit key
twofish128-cbc RECOMMENDED Twofish with 128-bit key
aes256-cbc OPTIONAL AES (Rijndael) in CBC mode,
with 256-bit key
aes192-cbc OPTIONAL AES with 192-bit key
aes128-cbc RECOMMENDED AES with 128-bit key
serpent256-cbc OPTIONAL Serpent in CBC mode, with
256-bit key
serpent192-cbc OPTIONAL Serpent with 192-bit key
serpent128-cbc OPTIONAL Serpent with 128-bit key
arcfour OPTIONAL the ARCFOUR stream cipher
idea-cbc OPTIONAL IDEA in CBC mode
cast128-cbc OPTIONAL CAST-128 in CBC mode
none OPTIONAL no encryption; NOT RECOMMENDED
I will agree that the last mentioned provides shoddy encryption :-)
Ssh should be used as part of an overall security policy. No single
security tool can provide complete protection, which has been stated
many, many times on this overly extended thread.
Perhaps you would also like to tell Gene Spafford why tripwire is
fundamentally flawed, and Weitze Venema why TCP Wrappers don't work,
and Eric Young why SSLEAY is broken and Phil Zimmerman why PGP is
hopeless and Microsoft why PPtP is broken and NIST and the NSA
why SHA is easily exploited....
As far as "concern for security" goes, I haven't had any notification
from MS about the security vulnerabilites in NT4 or W2K, despite my
being a registered user of both products, and despite the SPs for these
products including security fixes ;-)
This thread has gone on far too long, largely because you seem unwilling
to, or incapable of, admitting to have been mistaken originally.
Some of us do admit to having been mistaken. It is usually considered
a sign of adulthood.
On a closing note, I will paraphrase this thread (and I am displaying
*no* signs of maturity in doing so)
ARTHUR draws his sword and approaches CHAD^H^H^H^Hthe BLACK KNIGHT.
A furious fight now starts lasting about fifteen seconds at which point
ARTHUR
delivers a mighty blow which completely severs CHAD^H^H^H^Hthe BLACK
KNIGHT's
left arm at the shoulder. ARTHUR steps back triumphantly.
ARTHUR
Now stand aside worthy adversary
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
(glancing at his shoulder)
'Tis just a scratch
ARTHUR
A scratch? Your arm's off.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
No it isn't.
ARTHUR
(pointing to the arm on the ground)
What's taht then?
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
I've had worse.
ARTHUR
You're a liar.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Come on you pansy.
Another ten seconds furious fighting till A chops the B's other arm off,
also at the shoulder. THe arm plus sword lies on the ground.
ARTHUR
Victory is mine.
(sinking to his knees)
I thank thee O Lord that in thy...
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Come on then.
ARTHUR
What!
He kicks A hard on the side of the helmet. A gets up still holding his
sword. THe B comes after him kicking.
ARTHUR
You are indeed brave Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Had enough?
ARTHUR
You stupid bastard. You haven't got any arms left.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Course I have
ARTHUR
Look!
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
What! Just a flesh wound.
(kicks A)
ARTHUR
Stop that.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
(kicking him)
Had enough...?
ARTHUR
I'll have your leg.
We is kicked
Right!
CHAD^H^H^H^HThe BLACK KNIGHT kicks him again and ARTHUR chops his leg
off.
CHAD^H^H^H^HThe BLACK KNIGHT keeps his balance with difficulty.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
I'll do you for that
ARTHUR
You'll what...?
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Come here.
ARTHUR
What are you going to do. Bleed on me?
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
I am invincible.
ARTHUR
You're a looney.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
The Black Knight always triumphs. Have at you!
ARTHUR
Takes his last leg off. The B's body lands upright.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
All right, we'll call it a draw.
ARTHUR
Come, Patsy.
ARTHUR and PATSY start to cross the bridge.
CHAD^H^H^H^HBLACK KNIGHT
Running away, eh? You yellow bastard.
Come back her and take what's coming to you.
I'll bite your legs off!
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:57:03 +0000
> That's why law-abiding citizens SHOULD HAVE guns....because LAW-ABIDING
> CITZENS aren't the ones who would shoot you...but their *IS* a good
> chance that one would shoot some thug who doesn't give a fuck about the
> laws against murder in the first place.
>
>> that is MY right as a free Englishman and I want to keep
>> that right.
>
> Clue for the clueless: criminals don't give a fuck about what you think
> your rights are.
>
>> Since guns are not commonplace here, letting nutters have
>> them
>> means oppression, not freedom for me.
>
> 1 nutter kills 20 people.
Yep.
> 60 criminals, no longer fearing retaliation by disarmed law-abiding
> citizens kill 1 person each.
Law abiding citizens here were unarmed anyway because we don't have a gun
culture, so under our new system, there are 20 less deaths by your
reckoning.
> Which pile of bodies is bigger?
>
> Your problem is, you refuse to contemplate the trade-off....that by
> letting a few nutters have guns, you also give the general public the
> ability to defend itself against habitual criminals.
The general public didn't have guns anyway, even when they were allowed.
Under these circumstances, its better to allow nutters not to have them/
> Should we outlaw cars because sometimes there are accidents-- completely
> disregarding that fact that cars save more lives than what they take
> (quick, sheltered transportation allows people to maintain a higher
> standard of living, thereby avoiding malnutrition, disease, hypothermia,
> etc.)
Guns serve one purpose: to kill. The primary purpose of cars is not to
kill.
>> To be quite frank, guns or no guns, if they come after me, I am a dead
>> man.
>
> Spoken like a true coward.
No, spoken like someone who has a realistic outlook.
> Over here in the states, 80-year-old grandmothers regularly turn punks
> into swiss cheese....
And you think that people regularly killing each other is a good thing?
>> Like I said, they could kill me before I knew they were after me.
>
> And so, on that basis, you would deny everybody else a chance to defend
> themselves.
People here didn't have guns in general anyway. Under these
circumstances, its better not to let nutters at them.
> By that logic, your neighbor should prevent you from having a computer
> because he can't figure out how to use it effectively.
Guns are designed to kill, computers are not.
>> would stop that govt. shelling the house of someone with a personal
>> arsenal?
>
> A concerted response from the entire neighborhood firing upon the gun
> crew.
How many civs do you know own enough weaponary to stop a mobile gun
shelling you from 60 miles away?
> "Those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither"
> --Benjamin Franklin
I'm not trading liberty for safety. I get more liberty without guns
around than with.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:59:58 +0000
>> So, yes, it appears that in general, crashing apps have absolutely no
>> effect on the OS.
>
> But it is possible for applications (without crashing) to take down the
> OS.
If the OS isn't properly set up ,a rogue app can crash it. But what do
you expect?
If I suid root cat, then cat > /dev/kmem will bring down the OS pretty
quick, but this is a stupid test because the system is very badly set up.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Dann Corbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:02:45 -0800
"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Bloody Viking wrote:
> >
> > -hs- ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> > : To avoid the question "Why isn't it in radians as is the standard?"
> >
> > So, it is in radians. Now that I know about the "-lm" switch for the
compile,
> > I get to make a degree2radian conversion line to add to my code. Something
> > off-topic is that the TI-86 calculator out of the box defaults to radians.
> > (you set it to degrees)
> >
> > Here's a chance to correct (and flame) me. Last time I checked, a full
circle
> > is 3.1415926.... radians, that being pi number radians to equal 360
degrees.
> > Time to add the conversion line to my little programme.
> >
>
> correct. Pi radians = one circle.
Are you the guy with the monkey who throws peanuts at his girlfriends? If you
really have no idea whatsoever about that which you are talking about, why
bother to chime in at all?
I see someone else has already plonked you (and I merely hovered...), and I
also shall
*plonk*
and if a *plonk* is equal to pi, then we really have come full circle haven't
we?
--
C-FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
"The C-FAQ Book" ISBN 0-201-84519-9
C.A.P. FAQ: ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/Chess%20Analysis%20Project%20FAQ.htm
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:08:33 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Spot the stupidity.
>
> That would be u, using a early 70:s OS like Linsux....
>
>
Dunce! ... Linux was developed in the 1990's.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman D. Megill)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 02:11:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Yes, Linux could be used as the base platform. But be very careful of
what you are getting into here - at this point I think you have a
simplistic view.. A database, mentioned elsewhere in this thread, is
barely the starting point. Even an "inventory control system" only
touches the surface of what you have to do.
In a manufacturing and production environment you should be familiar
with terms such as bills of material, routing, revision control,
supersession maintenance, material/labor tracking, serial/lot
assignment, material reserve/issue, picking lists, workcenter gates and
backflushing, cost rollups, etc. Not to mention the financial tracking
and general ledger entries that must take place at numerous points.
This is just for "production control". The next level, which I don't
even get into here, is MRP or "manufacturing resource planning", which
ties into a production control system.
A person qualified to set up such a system is normally a CPIM (Certified
in Production and Inventory Management) with a related master's degree.
While I fully support the Open Source movement, there is currently no
GPL'ed package anything anywhere near what you will need that is
currently available, and a serious manufacturing operation is best off
shelling out tens to hundreds of thousand dollars to purchase a
commercial package (peanuts compared to the millions setting up the
factory). Attempting to do it on your own from scratch is, quite
frankly, a little foolhardy (but you're welcome to try!).
By the way it is standard practice for manufacturing software providers
to provide source code for complete flexibility in customizing it to
specific needs, and this is demanded by the users. This is not GPLed
code though, as the manufacturing software provider owns and enforces
the copyright on its base code. To my knowledge there has never been a
source code "theft" problem with this, since the the users feel they are
really paying for a service (maintenance and support), and in any case
the customization costs often dwarf the cost of the original package.
The customization costs can be minimal for a small operation willing to
live with the limitations of a base system, and ranges up to several
million dollars for a large factory with all kinds of special needs.
Virtually all of the serious manufacturing systems run on various
flavors of Unix, including Linux. They will also run under Windows 2K
in principle, but I'm not aware of a large manufacturing operation using
NT or 2K for this. Actually most of them use and prefer "dumb terminal"
telnet-type interfaces to the Unix server, since for routine
manufacturing operations a character screen is far more efficient for
entering bar-code data with a couple of keystrokes than moving a mouse
around.
To get a feel, here is a list of the various menu functions that should
be available in an actual Production Control system. In terms of
programming, it typically consists of hundreds of thousands of lines of
4GL code, which sits on top of and interacts with (i.e. calls functions
from) a million or so lines of 4GL code for the underlying inventory,
order processing/accounts receivable, purchasing/accounts payable, and
general ledger software in a sophisticated ERP (enterprise resource
planning) system. Without endorsing a specific vendor, an actual
example is Foresight Software's Production Planning module. To get a
perspective, this is roughly the "Production Planning" item in the
subfigure labeled "Manufacturing" on
http://www.foresight-esp.com/scripts/wsisa.dll/productsweb/prodindex.r .
Calendar Maintenance
Employee Maintenance
Workweek/Holiday Maintenance
Final Assembly WO for Sales Order
Work Order Entry
WO Entry - Materials Screen
WO Entry - Labor (Routing) Screen
WO Entry - WO Printing Screen
WO Entry - Serial/Lot Assignment
On-Screen Component Check
Stock Adjustment
WO Scheduling
WO Reserve/Pick List Printing
WO Printing
Issue Materials to WO
WIP Transaction Inquiry
WIP Transaction Report
Time Sheet Entry
WO Completion Entry
Close Work Order
Mass WO Scheduling
Backflush Entry
Close Backflush Work Order
Batch Backflush Maintenance
Batch Backflush List
Batch Backflush Execution
WO Header Serialized Item Inquiry
WO Header Inquiry
WO Completion Total Inquiry
WO Materials Inquiry
WO Labor Inquiry
Time Sheet Inquiry
Employee Inquiry
Employee Rate Inquiry
Backflush Summary by Item Inquiry
Backflush Detail by Item Inquiry
Final Assembly Backflush Inquiry
Work Order Orphan Inquiry
P/R - G/L Distribution by Period, Item, WO, Work Center, Job
WO/BackFlush Detail Report
Cost Variance Report
Materials Variance Analysis
WO Aging Report By Item
Backflush Status Report
Work Order & PO Requisition Report
Work Order Orphan Report
Final Assembly Status Report
Weekly Efficiency Report
Monthly Efficiency Report
P/R - G/L Distribution Report
P/R Inventory Transaction Journal
Closed WO Purge
Time Sheet Purge
Monthly Efficiency Purge
P/R Increment Year/Period
Backflush Transaction Purge
P/R - G/L Interface
P/R Distribution Purge
WIP Transaction Purge
Good luck!
--Norm
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 02:12:03 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Stuart Krivis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:27:01 GMT, Ziya Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Nick Condon wrote:
>>
>>> Let me start with some obvious non-proprietary innovations that I can
>>> come up with in 10 seconds:
>>>
>>> TCP/IP (the Internet itself) SMTP (the Internet mail server) Usenet
>>> Web servers Web browsers HTML Domain name system
>>
>>Incidentally, how many of those are GPLed?
>
> I don't think that any are. But I guess that's why they have been truly
> successful - they are truly open.
They are protocols not programs. GPL applies to program code not
protocols.
> Would TCP/IP have been as successful if it had been under a license like
> the GPL instead of the BSDL?
GPL applies to specific program code. From the specifications of the
Linux kernel, you could write a closed source version legally that was
API compatible al long as you didn't use any of the code.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:21:57 -0600
I think he was looking for already designed and written systems rather than
writing one himself.
"Jan Francsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hello!
>
> I think, you need some kind of database.
> Read about sql and relational Databases.
> As a server you can use a Linux box with mysql.
>
> On the client side, you can create
> - software in C with qt2 lib's for graphical GUI
> - html with java or php to make the Database accesable in any Browser.
> In that case you will need the Apache www server on your server.
>
> For system-service use SSH, Telnet and webmin, a verry nice www
> (intranet) aplication.
>
> I hope, this helps.
>
> greatings, Jan
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:27:24 -0600
What you want is something called an MRP or ERP. This stands for
"Manufacturing Resource Planning" or "Enterprise Resource Planning". Such
systems track inventory (both raw materials and end product), Bill of
Materials, Work Orders, Etc..
Some of them include Customer account tracking (which cusomter received
which product based on work order, etc.), Order management, RMA (Return
Material Authorization), Accounting, ordering and prediction of raw
materials, etc..
I can't answer your question about whether Linux would work for you, But I
thought you should at least know the terms used for the software you're
looking for.
"peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
>
> What I'm trying to do, is design a factory inventory system. To keep
> cost down I want to use Linux. The model I'm using, is a furniture
> factory. I want to design a system that will allow the factory to
> keep track of their "work in progress" and finished goods. I'm
> guessing that this will be a little more complicated than your
> average inventory system?
>
> Of course the workers would have to access the system to enter data,
> etc, so the user interfaces can't be too complicated (GUI?).
>
> SOFTWARE
>
> Is there any "open source" software that can help me with the
> inventory and tracking ? or
>
> Would I have to write a program from scratch or could I modify some
> existing software ? or
>
> Would it make more sense to just buy the software (for linux) ?
>
> HARDWARE
>
> This is an easy (well easier) one for me, first I would make sure the
> hardware (I'm buying) is linux compatible. I would go out and buy B/W
> 9" monitors, those cool small cases (with the 810e chipset, if the
> 810e is linux compatible), and celeron cpus, etc. I would pick up
> some retractable keyboard and mouse holders and set up several rack
> mount style data centers throughout the factory (I would love to set
> this up!!!)
> On the server side, things get a little tricky, maybe (just maybe) tie
> into a win 2000 server (A lot depends on what existing system they
> already have, and we all know that many of the existing systems will
> be win98, etc). I guess the management would need to access the data
> entered by the factory workers to check progress, productivity, etc.
> A linux server could be used and we could somehow give the management
> access to this server though their existing win boxes (secure CRT ?).
> Or we could design a simple way to access and read the data in linux
> (write a small reporting program or use some simple database program)
> and also have the forms printed automatically at the end of the day.
>
> SUPPORT
>
> Depending on the size of the factory, in-house linux/windows support
> would be smart, But if it's a small company, then they could call on
> the systems/software provider (me) for support. From what I read
> about linux, if I design the system right, there won't be to many
> problems. I would probably set up a service contract where I would
> come in every month and check things out.
>
> SECURITY
>
> This system would not be accessible from the outside, This is a lone
> factory (pretty rare in today's world, but let's keep things simple :)
> Managers would have internet access, so normal virus protection, and
> other precautions would be in place.
>
> FORGET LINUX
>
> If, for some strange reason it would be better to do this on some
> other platform, like freeBSD, or windows 2000, please tell me. Let's
> assume that the factory is a midsize factory (40-60 factory workers,
> 10-12 manager/sales/etc, and that they will need about 10 data entry
> terminals, and every manager already has a windows 98 box.
>
> NOTE
>
> I know I've left out a lot a details, I've never worked in a factory
> and I'm trying to understand how this can all work together. I think
> if we let are imaginations loose we can all have some fun with this;
> and a lot of the newbies to Linux and IT can learn a little.
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: [OT] (Was: Something Seemingly Simple)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 02:18:28 +0000
>> Here's a chance to correct (and flame) me. Last time I checked, a full
>> circle is 3.1415926.... radians, that being pi number radians to equal
>> 360 degrees. Time to add the conversion line to my little programme.
>>
>
> correct. Pi radians = one circle.
No.
There are 2*pi radians in a circle.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: M$ doing it again!
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:31:36 -0600
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Do you have a link for this? I need proof, because somehow I don't think
> > you're an impartial observer.
>
> All I know is that just a few days ago Microsoft had abandoned full
> skinning, and was closing the APIs from developers:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17001.html
*sigh*, as usual.. The Register is spouting heresay when the facts are well
documented.
> 'We first heard the rumour that Microsoft was dropping plans to "skin"
> Microsoft XP during Comdex. Now Redmond says it won't be releasing those
> theming APIs to developers. It's also likely that Microsoft will attempt
> to control the third party themes by bouncing digitally signed themes off
> the system.'
>
> This would certainly be a different approach by MS and as I too would
> appreciate the URL.
MS has already stated in several places, including the Whistler SDK
(available online freely to anyone) that the theming API's would not be
released. The reason, is that they want to ensure that all themes follow
the basic windows UI guidelines.
I'm sure MS will license the theme SDK to developers that agree to abide by
UI guidelines and certify the themes, but that won't happen till at least
the release of whistler.
------------------------------
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