Linux-Advocacy Digest #498, Volume #32 Mon, 26 Feb 01 12:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Who writes open source software? ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Edward Rosten")
Re: State of linux distros (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ ("Mike")
Re: Great, Apple patents Themes (Ian Pulsford)
Re: RTFM at M$ (Craig Kelley)
Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine (Ian Pulsford)
Re: why open source software is better (Craig Kelley)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Who writes open source software? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ ("Mike")
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ ("Mike")
Re: [OT] .sig (Joona I Palaste)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Dan Pop)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] ("Donal K.
Fellows")
Re: why open source software is better (Lance Purple)
Re: why open source software is better (jtnews)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Richard Bos)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else (Peter Hayes)
Re: Who writes open source software? ("news.earthlink.net")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Peter Hayes)
Re: Great, Apple patents Themes ("Edward Rosten")
Re: 101 uses for a Kulkis.. (The Ghost In The Machine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:59:44 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"suppose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Just curious. I'm in the commercial software development business and
wonder
> who writes open source? Is it students? Professors? Hobbyists? Who is
> supporting their efforts? How do they find the time? How do the pay the
> rent?
>
> I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything - this is a serious question
on
> my part.
All of the above, actually. Sometimes commercial developers write code in
their free time too. :>
Most write for the love of coding, and to fill a need not met by commercial,
closed-software. Many code their own software because they cannot afford the
upgrade-game, and what they write works for them, after all who knows their
needs better?
Most, if not all, have full-time careers to support their hobby. Linus
Torvalds, if I recall correctly, works for Transmeta, for example. Some are
college/graduate students (Linus wrote Linux as a graduate student) who have
a lot of free time on their hands. *grin*
If it were not for all of the hobyists, students, professors, etc, who write
code apart from commercial developers, there would not be much
share/free-ware out there, as well as no open-source "movement".
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:03:47 +0000
>> Exactly - microsoft's "bet the farm", "benchmark buster" configuration
>> with the special web cache in front of iis is badly outperformed by
>> AIX, and can't even match the performance of the free Red Hat Linux
>> system.
>
> Special cache? You mean some software anyone can buy and run outta the
No, he means a special web cache which hasn't been released by Micros~1
yet.
> box? You didn't notice the AIX box has 12 processors versus 8 for the
> w2k box
> (and it only beat it by 14% with 50% more processors).
> I did see the custom benchmark buster Tux system beating it by a
> sizzling 3 whole percentage points! Woo hoo!!
What you failed to mention was thet the linux system was running on
slower hardware. So winning by 2 whole percentage points is actually very
good.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:10:15 GMT
Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You can get a boxed Debian distribution; IIRC VA Linux packages it
> as "Debian GNU/Linux".
Yes, yes, but nobody uses it. Okay, somebody probably does, but the
whole *point* of Debian is IMHO the network updates and upgrades. (I
know several Debian users, and, in contrast to Red Hat or S.u.S.E
users I know, they hardly ever use CD images for installation - and if
they do, it's only to get a base system quickly up and running)
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:19:37 GMT
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:97dack$79l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > At some point, that stops working. The problem is that the chip is a
> > finite area, and you're trying to dissipate the heat into a large chunk
> > of aluminum. The aluminum may be able to handle the heat, but the heat
> > flow from the chip into the aluminum is too slow, so the chip burns up
> > even though the fins on your heat sink are still cool.
>
> It depends how big you make the chip. There would be incentive to give it
> a pretty large area, so it could dissipate heat easily. This would be OK,
> especially if it was very thin.
Yikes! No! The biggest problem with this is that the cost of the chip is
proportional to the area. There's a fixed cost to produce a wafer, and the
more chips you can put on it, the more money you make from the finished
wafer. Even Intel would feel the pressure on profits if they made their
chips larger just to improve heat flow into the package and heatsink. There
are also problems with defect density and with the longer wire length needed
in larger chips.
Chip thickness is only one part of the equation. Aluminum is a good heat
conductor, but its ability to wick heat away from the chip is finite.
Increasing the chip area by a factor of 4 may not affect this very much. In
other words, if you have trouble dissipating 10kW from a point source, you
may have almost as much trouble dissipating 10kW from a 1" square source.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Great, Apple patents Themes
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:25:42 +1000
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>
> This is absoloutely unbelieveable. Surely it won't stand up, since theming
> has been used for several years now by other people.
>
> Besides, MS wasnt themes in WinXP (although when in not clear). They are
> not going to let anyone (especially not Apple) get in the way of thier
> latest `innovaition', so we might get them slugging it out in court. Heh.
> MS to the rescue, who would have thought it.
The only thing M$ would try to save is its own arse.
Patenting has gone mad. Just like all the media companies trying
desperately to protect 'content' (cf. Napster, DeCSS, CPRM), big IT
companies are making a grab at basic principles and ideas (Amazon,
Altavista). Everyone wants their finger in the legal pie; and just as
open source begins to make its mark in the public eye. Ironic eh?
>
> -Ed
>
IanP
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: RTFM at M$
Date: 26 Feb 2001 08:40:34 -0700
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Craig Kelley wrote:
> >
> > T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > But it does, it quickly lets you discard all the machines that aren't
> > responding. Otherwise you need to do some TCP ack or other, which
> > causes bells to go off all over the place if you misplace it at all
> > (wrong host and/or port).
>
> Alternatively, you can have your firewall return a ping response
> for EVERY legal address behind your firewall.
>
> The can get the kiddies to invest resources attacking ghosts.
Couple that with a fake telnet daemon and you could have some fun.
Trim your .sig
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:46:53 +1000
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>
> In 20M, you can fit linux w/ gnu file/text utils, NS2.0, X, fvwm etc.
>
> In 100M you could have a small workstation.
>
> > By the way it's quite possible for a 2.4 kernel to no longer fit on a
> > boot floppy disk (depending upon what is compiled in).
>
> You can get a 2.4 kernel to fit on a disk, but there are a huge number of
> superflous options that you would never need for a machine such as a
> router.
>
My 2.4.0 desktop kernel is 853861k. That is a kernel with module
support programmed in but without anything being modularised (in case
some piece of software I download comes with a module).
My 2.2.12 X-terminal kernel is 385536k. Making a kernel small enough to
fit on a disk is no big deal, especially when you know want you need and
what you don't.
IanP
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
Date: 26 Feb 2001 08:46:43 -0700
jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well emacs is kind of modular
> the actual core of emacs is relatively
> simple. It's controlled creeping featurism
> versus uncontrolled where everything but
> the kitchen sink gets thrown in, and it's
> impossible to sort out all the dependencies.
>
> Emacs Lisp would be nice if it had a hierarchical
> namespace.
It does:
gnus-message-*
gnus-group-*
gnus-*
mail-*
compose-*
etc.
They aren't enforced, but then neither are the Java libraries. It's
all by convention, and you can find inconsistencies in most any
heirarchy (look at the AWT -> SWING mess in Java, you can't ever tell
which depends on what).
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:57:09 GMT
"Jon Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> 2) Hotmail has been running entirely on Win2k except for 3 single-tasking
>> graphic servers since July.
> I'm on your side of this Erik and don't have reason to doubt you but can you
> help me find info about your item #2. I know they've switched all the front
> end servers to w2k but I heard the backend application itself was running on
> solaris. Are you saying they've converted the application itself ?
I don't know where to find "reliable" information, certainly not at
www.netcraft.com, because of the eight .hotmail.com servers, it lists
five NetBSD, and three W2k (one of which, incidentally, is named
"gfx")
Must be an evil commie plot, no doubt.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:58:27 +0000
> Just curious. I'm in the commercial software development business and
> wonder who writes open source? Is it students? Professors? Hobbyists?
All of the above
> Who is supporting their efforts? How do they find the time? How do the
Many ways. Some people write a program that they need for personal use
(as part of some job, or whatever) and then decide to release it as open
source.
Other than that, most people have time for a hobby, and for most
developers, it is probably a hobby.
Some companies pay people to develop free software (for instance RedHat).
> pay the rent?
Most of them have jobs (the rest are mainly students :-)
> I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything - this is a serious question
> on my part.
HTH
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:54:37 GMT
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:97db0l$7mr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Right you are. One of the fundamental problems is that there is nothing
> > to replace silicon dioxide as the MOS gate insulator. The reason that
> ^^
> except mabey metal oxide?
>
> > the devices on. The problem then is that the MOS transistors don't turn
> > off completely when the gate voltage is zero.
>
> Yep sure they can. You can move the 'off' voltage over quite a range from
> negative, through zero to positive. Most MOS transistors are off when the
> gate voltage is less than 1v(?) (which is why you have to be careful
> using MOSFETS in power amps if you want to avoid crossover distortion).
"Off," but not off. There is still some leakage current. Yes, you could make
the gate voltage negative to reduce the leakage current, but that's not an
option in CMOS logic, and driving the gate negative would exceed the voltage
limits on the gate oxide. The leakage current we're talking about here is
small - less than 1nA on a transistor in today's processes. But, for a 0.1u
process, it's likely to increase to something closer to 100nA. That still
isn't much, but in a 1B transistor chip, it adds up to 50A.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:00:53 GMT
"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Mike wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Edward Rosten wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Edward Rosten wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >> I can. Starting from the home computers of the early 80's, the
> > > > >> >> amount of power required has steadily increased. Bear in mind,
> > thet
> > > > >> >> the faster you want to switch a silicon junctio, the more
power
> > you
> > > > >> >> need to switch it.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Particularly for CMOS.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And Bipolar. You have junction capacitance in the CMOS transistor
and
> > > > >> charge stored in the base to drive it in to saturation in the
bipolar
> > > > >> case.
> > > > >
> > > > > No. Bipolar consumes significant amounts of current even when not
> > > > > switching.
> > > >
> > > > Yes. The base charge must be removed, or put back to switch a
> > transistor.
> > >
> > > For Field Effect Transistors (PMOS and NMOS, which together make
CMOS),
> > > yes. There is no "base charge" for bipolar junction transistors.
> >
> > Oh yes there is, and you'd damn well better believe that it's important.
If
> > you had ever designed ECL or CML logic, you'd either know that it was,
or
> > you'd have failed.
>
> It's negligable compared to the gate charge on a FET
Nope. Go look again.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: Joona I Palaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig
Date: 26 Feb 2001 16:01:44 GMT
Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>
>> Peter Pichler wrote:
>> >
>> > >> and as such has a God-given Right to do whatever the
>> > >> hell he likes (e.g. appending 1708 bytes of yahoo rant to all
>> > >> his Usenet postings), however annoying and inconvenient it may
>> > >> be for the rest of us.
>> > >
>> > >And not only that, but I serve in the military to defend
>> > >that right.
>> >
>> > You must be /realy/ proud.
>>
>> Are you trying to imply that defending your country is somehow
>> an ignoble thing to do?
> No, he's trying to imply that being a complete bozo is an ignoble thing
> to do. Learn to read for comprehension.
And by the way, Aaron - "defending your country" does not qualify as a
reason. Usenet is not your country.
--
/-- Joona Palaste ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"A bicycle cannot stand up by itself because it's two-tyred."
- Sky Text
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pop)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 26 Feb 2001 15:52:56 GMT
In <97botr$82j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) writes:
>Dan Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>: Degrees are a meaningless unit in trigonometry, which is not exactly
>: high end math. I've learned most of it in junior high school.
>
>Trig is not high-end math at all. You're right. But when it is taught, it is
>taught using degrees for the angles, never radians.
I was taught trigonometry in radians only.
>: OTOH, *all* the programming languages that I'm familiar with use radians
>: for the arguments of the trigonometric functions. So, I'm tempted to
>: believe that they're the standard in the computing industry. I'm also
>: tempted to believe that there must be a good reason for that.
>
>Most normal people never take up programming computers.
Most normal people have no clue about the definitions of the trigonometric
functions. Introducing them in this discussion is pointless.
>Working-class people
>who programme for amusement are about as rare as humans with full-scale fur
>coats.
Which could explain why Fortran, Pascal, BASIC, C etc etc use radians for
the trigonometric functions :-)
Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, IT Division
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:09:47 +0000
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> Wrong, applications are supposed to put their shared libraries in
> \Program Files\Common Files\<Company Name>\
Is that on the search path for DLL loading? If not, there's the heart
of the problem right there...
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- I may seem more arrogant, but I think that's just because you didn't
realize how arrogant I was before. :^)
-- Jeffrey Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lance Purple)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:20:56 GMT
Craven Moorehead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Personally, I am in favour of open source Beatles music.
>Too bad Paul, George, Ringo and the demon lady want to get paid and
>increasingly so.
Actually, Beatles music is somewhat "open". You're allowed to record
and sell 'cover' versions of any song they've put out, so long as you
pay the compulsory licence fee. They can't withhold permission, even
on awful covers like William Shatner's "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds".
Moreover, when we talk of "Open Source" software, we're not talking
about ripping somebody else's warez and trading it on Napster. We're
talking about the AUTHOR him/herself agreeing to give out the source.
You do agree they can give away their own property, yes?
--
,---------------------------------------,
/ Lance Purple (lpurple at io dot com) /
'---------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:32:17 GMT
Well it's not exactly the same
as in java. In java, I can
use the import statement,
import java.util.*;
and not have to use any qualifying
prefix on a name
Vector symbols = new Vector();
versus
java.util.Vector symbols = new java.util.Vector();
This is important if you want the
ability to move whole sections of
code from one module (package) to another
without having to do a lot of error prone
editing.
Also with java, you have the choice
of importing individual classes within
packages instead of all of the names
in the package.
import java.util.Vector;
This makes name space management a lot
easier and makes unintended collisions
between namespacesless likely.
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> It does:
>
> gnus-message-*
> gnus-group-*
> gnus-*
> mail-*
> compose-*
>
> etc.
>
> They aren't enforced, but then neither are the Java libraries. It's
> all by convention, and you can find inconsistencies in most any
> heirarchy (look at the AWT -> SWING mess in Java, you can't ever tell
> which depends on what).
>
> --
> The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Bos)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:40:21 GMT
"Dann Corbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are you the guy with the monkey who throws peanuts at his girlfriends?
Actually, that's an _ape_, and if I were you I'd start running before he
finds out you called him the M-word.
Richard
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:32:59 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:55:25 +0000, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "jtnews"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Who cares about politics or government? As far as I'm concerned most of
> > the world governments impose high taxes and do much more than they
> > should do "for the people". Everything except law enforcement and the
> > military should be privatized and out of government hands. Then maybe
> > things will get better.
>
>
> I disagree. What about the welfare state? Safety critical public services
> (eg Air traffic control*) etc?
>
>
> * This is more of a problem in the UK than the US since the skies are
> much more crowded due to a rather smaller quantity of it.
And they're going to privatise it, despite
a) having condemned air privatisation while in opposition,
and
b) having not learned a single lesson of the rail privatisation fiasco.
Geez
Peter
--
You have added or changed your signature.
Your signature server will now reboot so that
the changes will take effect.
------------------------------
From: "news.earthlink.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:51:37 GMT
I can see that the addition of smaller open source features and utilities
can be done in one's spare time. But I can't imagine anything major being
done without a dedicated full-time effort. But if that effort is provided,
then how is one supported financially? Perhaps subsidized mostly by
universities?
--
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:97dufu$mre$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Just curious. I'm in the commercial software development business and
> > wonder who writes open source? Is it students? Professors? Hobbyists?
>
> All of the above
>
> > Who is supporting their efforts? How do they find the time? How do the
>
>
> Many ways. Some people write a program that they need for personal use
> (as part of some job, or whatever) and then decide to release it as open
> source.
>
> Other than that, most people have time for a hobby, and for most
> developers, it is probably a hobby.
>
> Some companies pay people to develop free software (for instance RedHat).
>
>
> > pay the rent?
>
> Most of them have jobs (the rest are mainly students :-)
>
> > I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything - this is a serious question
> > on my part.
>
>
> HTH
>
> -Ed
>
>
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
>
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:47:30 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 04:39:33 -0500, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ever notice that the only thing that puts and end to a killing spree
> is the ARRIVAL OF MORE GUNS in law-abiding hands (either civilian
> or police or military).
>
> Therefore, guns are STILLL a necessary tool in modern life....and
> will be until you can figure out a way to PREVENT *every* person
> from even contemplating murder. [fat chance of that].
Of course guns are a necessary tool in modern life, but not in th hands of
the average citizen. Imagine an incident witnessed by a citizen somewhat
the worse for drink, or perhaps been smoking something he shouldn't have.
Said citizen's judgement is just as impaired as it would be if he were
behind the wheelof a car, with the same fatal consequences.
Peter
--
You have added or changed your signature.
Your signature server will now reboot so that
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Great, Apple patents Themes
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:05:27 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ian Pulsford"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>>
>> This is absoloutely unbelieveable. Surely it won't stand up, since
>> theming has been used for several years now by other people.
>>
>> Besides, MS wasnt themes in WinXP (although when in not clear). They
>> are not going to let anyone (especially not Apple) get in the way of
>> thier latest `innovaition', so we might get them slugging it out in
>> court. Heh. MS to the rescue, who would have thought it.
>
> The only thing M$ would try to save is its own arse.
Yes true, but the act of them fighting the patent would prevent anyone
else having to fight it.
> Patenting has gone mad. Just like all the media companies trying
> desperately to protect 'content' (cf. Napster, DeCSS, CPRM), big IT
<rant>
It (esp. DeCSS) is stupid. CSS doesn't need to be cracked since DVDs can
be ripped by grabbing the vide on the way to the card, and this was done
years before CSS was cracked. The only thing that DeCSS allows you that
you couldn't do before is to watch videos under linux.
</rant>
Actually, I think that the people who actually devides the CSS system
must have beed on our side (tm) since no one with even a basic grounding
in cryptography could have created such a bad system without trying quite
hard :-)
> companies are making a grab at basic principles and ideas (Amazon,
> Altavista). Everyone wants their finger in the legal pie; and just as
> open source begins to make its mark in the public eye. Ironic eh?
Isn't there something about prior art that will stop Apple patenting
themes? For instance I couldn't go and patent the saw because it has been
devised and widely used alredy. Desan't the same apply?
-ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: 101 uses for a Kulkis..
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:01:18 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, woof
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:10:23 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Well i know the guys an idiot but i was thinking there must be some use
>for him. hmm maybe...
>
>Arse Wipe - He could work in public toilets offering to clean the arses
> of incontinent men or even gays who get turned on by that
>
>any others?
>
>woof da dog
Can we argue about something a little *less* substantive, perhaps? :-)
Like ... whether the number of fleas on the earth exceeds 10 trillion?
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- and why we should care
EAC code #191 21d:02h:32m actually running Linux.
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
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