Linux-Advocacy Digest #557, Volume #32 Wed, 28 Feb 01 12:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: [OT] .sig ("Dan Sipes")
Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments.... (Mike Martinet)
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Edward Rosten")
Re: NT vs *nix performance (Craig Kelley)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. ("Edward Rosten")
Re: [OT] .sig ("Edward Rosten")
Re: [OT] .sig ("Arthur H. Gold")
Re: why open source software is better (Ian Davey)
Re: Java Platform Monopoly (Was: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments.... ("Mike")
Re: State of linux distros ("Edward Rosten")
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (Craig Kelley)
URGENT MESSAGE TO CHAD'S EMPLOYER Was: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) ("Ed")
Re: Java Platform Monopoly (Was: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments.... (Craig Kelley)
Re: NT vs *nix performance ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A question for a user who wants to jump the M$ ship (Alan Gauld)
Re: Hijacking the IP stack (Craig Kelley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Dan Sipes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:54:39 -0700
Richard Heathfield wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Brent R wrote:
>>
>> Mathew Hendry wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:35:36 +0000, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >
>> > >>>When was the last time you crawled under machine-gun fire, seeing
the
>> > >>>tracers flying literally within arm's reach of your head?
>> > >>
>> > >> I didn't know they were still using agent orange over there.
>> > >
>> > >Agent orange is still in widespread use as a weedkiller (a plant
>> > >biologist informed me of this). I can't remember its name though.
>> > >
>> > >Just out of intrest, what do tracer bullits have to do with weed
killer?
>> > >
>> > >I really can't figure that out.
>> >
>> > IIRC agent orange has some unpleasant side-effects on fetal
development,
>> > including limbs appearing in the wrong place (or not at all).
>>
>> No, I'm think that Agent Orange is a MAJOR carcinogen. All I know is
>> that vets were feeling the effects relatively shortly after being
>> exposed to it.
>
>
>They use veterinary surgeons in war zones?
>
>How true it is that one learns something new every day.
>
>The point of this little digression into foetal development, of course,
>was Mr Kulkis's statement (first, above), which seems a little
>anatomically inappropriate. I wouldn't have mentioned this, as it's so
>obvious, but some people seem to be a little confused. Just as I'm
>confused about why one would send vets into a war zone. Soldiers? Yes.
>Doctors? Certainly. But vets????
The military used canines in Vietnam, so there had to be vets to care for
the animals.
Dan
>
>
>--
>Richard Heathfield
>"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
>C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
>K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
------------------------------
From: Mike Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments....
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:18:33 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> > The we run into people like Judge Harry Edwards with
> > their contemptable logic and appearent lack of historical
> > knowledge, which lead me to conclude that we will end
> > up going around with Microsoft again in the future.
>
> The Judge probably enjoys his Microsoft Flight Simulator
> (yet another Microsoft purchase) too much.
I think it's interesting to note that the web server for US Court of
Appeals, DC Circuit, runs Active Server Pages.
http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/court_offices/library/library.asp
Why isn't it ".../library.pl"? ;)
MjM
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:14:53 +0000
>>The games market is very volatile and the products have a very short
>>life. My guess would be that the best strategy is to jump in and take
>>what you can as quickly as you can.
>
> This is essentially true. Games sell mostly in the first month.
>
>> Because of the enormous pace of the
>>market, everything needs to be rewritten over quite a short cycle which
>>increases the cost.
>
> It's not clear how much code needs rewriting, though one suspects quite
> a lot given that early releases are typically very buggy. However, the
> other content, (art and level design) needs to be fresh every time. The
> codebase has a somewhat greater degree of reusability.
>From what I've heard, there are far more artists and level designers than
coders.
> Id are in a somewhat enviable situation though, because their codebase
> does get reused several times, because they license it out to other
> companies. Some games using the Quake 2 engine were released some time
> after quake 2 ( eg: Rogue spear, and I think the HalfLife games )
Yes, they re use it in the short term, but it probably has to be
rewritten from scratch every year or so. I wonder how much Q2 code is in
Q3.
> So the argument would be that since their engine is widely used, they
> should be able to sell their games for a lower cost.
But their operating costs are high compared to most other types of
software because there is much less reuse of code, and a very high
proportion of designers as well.
> In practice, it's rare that a product will be cheaper *because* it's
> more popular, markets just don't behave like that. I'm not saying that
> this implies that MS don't have a monopoly. I'm saying that the pricing
> is not "monopoly pricing", and it's not in itself very good evidence of
> a monopoly (better evidence would be forced preloads, strong-arming
> OEMs, etc)
>
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
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------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: 28 Feb 2001 09:21:07 -0700
"Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > I agree, anyone thinking that an OS has no effect on the performance of
> a
> > > database running on it is an idiot.
> >
> > It actually has very little effect. DBM systems pretty much
> > re-implement all OS features within themselves (vfs, caching, raw
> > organization). The OS just needs to get out of the way. Some OSes
> > may not be so good at that (like MacOS 9 or lower, for instance) --
> > but by and large the OS has very little say.
>
> So, the database has it's own tcp/ip stack?
Of course not. I suppose it could have some effect on clustering
database systems -- but socket calls are very customizible by a
program; not much is left to the OS to detrmine.
> it's own named pipes interface?
Most DBMS systems use their own tcp/ip interfaces, and allow the
administrator to explictly set all the buffer sizes involved. Even
under named pipes (like postgresql uses), you can do the same -- it
all goes through the same network code in Linux at least.
> handles multiprocessor concurrency with other applications on the OS
> (amazing trick that one).
An old, tired trick that's standard in any good OS for years. SMP may
be another bag, but we get incredible performance from Sybase ASE
under Linux SMP (and NT as well).
> it may handle the memory it's alloted by itself,
They do.
> but that memory comes from the OS and how the OS manages virtual memory is
> of significant impact.
You basically tell the OS to bugger off and let the database system
manage the memory. A good administrator gives the database pretty
much all the RAM on the system (speaking of a dedicated, heavily used
system here) minus the minimum amount the OS needs in core. Then, the
OS' vfs will grant free pages to the DBMS which will keep them
forever.
A broken OS can *get in the way* of a DBMS, but by and large most DBMS
setups just want the OS to get out of the way instead.
If you stupidly tell your database system to use three times the
amount of real RAM that the computer has, plus to use a 64MB buffer on
all TCP/IP connections -- then the OS could get in the way, but it's
not the fault of the OS that the administrator is stupid.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:24:58 +0000
> Can I, or can I not write my own printf() which behaves utterly and
> completely differently than the printf() in the standard library?
>
> a) no B) YES.
On a comforming compiler, in general, no. You can't.
In the origional C implementation, the library was seperate from the
language, so you could do this. Now you can't becaus the library is part
of the language. If you redefine memcpy() on an intekl machine under GCC,
you version will never be used.
You can reactivete the old behaviour on some compilers (if not all), but
when they do not have to do this to be compliant.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:28:06 +0000
> UNCONTAMINATED Agent Orange is safe.
>
> It's just that one of the suppliers (DOW) had dioxin contamination
> problems.
>
> The health problems are caused by the dioxin contaminant, *NOT* the
> chemicals specified in the "Agent Orange" formula.
Incorrect. In the concentrations they used, uncontaminated Agent Orange
is unsafe.
-ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 03:39:18 -0600
From: "Arthur H. Gold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig
Richard Bos wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Vandervies) wrote:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Dave Vandervies wrote:
> > >>
> > >> (After all, I've been mistaken for an American...)
> > >
> > >You mean you're not one?
> >
> > No, I'm Canadian, and the only thing I have in common with a lot of
> > Americans is that I'm forced to share a continent with them.
>
> And what's that continent called? You may not be a Merkin, but you
> certainly are an American in the original sense of the word.
>
> Richard
Isn't that spelled "'murkin" (leading apostrophe, no
capital, with a `u').
And yes, we can be an awfully embarrassing lot..."never have
so many been so well off and so pissed off about it." Phew.
--ag
(who thinks it might be time to go)
--
Artie Gold, Austin, TX (finger the cs.utexas.edu account
for more info)
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Verbing weirds language.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey)
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:33:21 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(phil hunt) wrote:
>>However this is mute as a lot of people do get paid to work on the OS.
>
>ITYM "moot".
>
Yup. It's been a long day...
ian.
\ /
(@_@) http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/ (dark literature)
/(&)\ http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/libertycaptions/ (art)
| |
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Java Platform Monopoly (Was: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments....
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:36:42 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Since the word MONOPOLY was actually formed during the STANDARD OIL
> breakup.
Actually, it wasn't.
The word monopoly dates from the mid 16th century, and comes to English via
the Latin word monopolium, which in turn derives from the Greek monopolion,
"right of exclusive sale," which came from the Greek polein, "to sell."
Needless to say, this predates Standard Oil.
Do you ever research anything, Charlie? It took me less time to find the
etymology of monopoly than it took you to write that sentence.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:39:44 +0000
> Microsoft stands for; Innovation and technical progress, *nix stands
Awww. Ain't that sweet. You young and naïve.
> for; backwards mentality, used only by those who are re-living the
> 70:s....got it?
The ' key is one to the right of the :
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: 28 Feb 2001 09:45:54 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) writes:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Craig Kelley
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on 24 Feb 2001 07:57:40 -0700
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) writes:
> >
> >> I'm pretty sure one can even run a window manager "over the wire" (I
> >> wouldn't want to, because my bandwidth sucks) and get reasonably
> >> good results.
> >
> >Ssh into a box.
> >
> >Run this command:
> >
> > Xnest -query HOSTNAME :1
> >
> >(where HOSTNAME is some machine running xdm, gdm or kdm; ususally the
> >same box)
>
> Oh yeah, forgot about Xnest. Useful little beastie; with a little work
> it probably could be turned into a really interesting scrollable widget.
>
> :-)
>
> But even without it, one can test a few things, I suspect. I
> haven't played with it lately.
>
> (But then, there's the issue as to whether we'd really want to
> duplicate pcAnywhere-type technology. But that's a philosophical
> question. :-) )
But it isn't like pcAnywhere-type technology. You can have as many
different users using as many different desktops from the same
machine, be they KDE, GNOME, twm, GnuSTEP, Enlightenment, or any other
X11 setup or mix between them. We have a Beowulf cluster of Linux
machines and the master serves up GDM and offers three different
desktops. There are 4 21" Xterminals and 4 Pentium 133 machines
hooked up to the xdm(gdm) display -- so 8 people can be logged into
the controlling machine from those. I can also use Xnest to open an
entire desktop session on the machine from my desktop across campus,
or just ssh into the machine and run individual GUI applications if I
want to.
It's like terminal services for Windows, only we've had it since the
80s. :)
If you're looking for pcAnywhere-type technology, then I always
reccomend VNC for both Windows and XFree86:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Ed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: URGENT MESSAGE TO CHAD'S EMPLOYER Was: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:46:59 +0000
> I thank God every day that I don't have to use that box as my desktop
> because the state of Unix and Linux is so poor, I would have to shoot
> myself if I did.
Please, whoever employs Chad, remove his windows machine this instant and
make him use Solaris/CDE.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Java Platform Monopoly (Was: Re: Judge Harry Edwards comments....
Date: 28 Feb 2001 09:55:47 -0700
"2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If we consider an OS as a framework and an execution engine, then the Java
> Platform IS that new monopoly, and Sun's fondest dream.
>
> Except this OS is a web middleware OS.
>
> Consider: it is widely said that Microsoft's old desktop monopoly is
> "history," to be replaced by high powered servers running devices so you can
> take your desktop with you.
>
> Ever hear this? Multitudes of posters suddenly have amnesia. :)
>
> How can an OS that is "history" be a monopoly, when part of the definition
> of a monopoly is that it can prevent competition?
>
> What is the competition that it cannot prevent? Hooking up to the web via
> various middleware. An OS with no web connection has no market. An OS with
> web connections, ie middleware, is transformed into a Network OS (NOS).
>
> The new Network OS has as its underlying "platform" a web-centric framework
> and execution engine. Ever hear of the Java Platform? How about the .NET
> Platform?
>
> For technical analysis, the posters have suddenly become the famous, "hear
> no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" trio.
>
> Gentlemen, start you engines: let the toadying begin.
SOAP is going to obviate the whole debate anyway (IMHO). You'll be
able to call network methods from any archtecture to any other
architecture by simple calls which utilize XML. Web sites will start
publishing SOAP methods for custom applications; as an example
Slashdot could publish some API:
array = soap:slash_get_stories('slashdot.org', 8080);
story = soap:slash_get_story('slashdot.org', 8080, story_id);
The bounds are limitless for this kind of stuff. Middleware will
become a pointless question; you can do it in whatever language you
like regardless. Stubborn Amiga users will be able to use all the
latest technologies that their Microsoft XP coworkers are using.
Maybe I'm dreaming a bit here, but I think it'll happen; eventually
you'll have standard interfaces like:
songs = soap:iso_music_get_albums ('mystereo.mydomain', stereo_service);
soap:iso_music_play_song ('mystereo.mydomain', stereo_service, songs[0]);
for lots of stuff; all with SSL/authentication handled by upper layers
(ala HTTP auth over ssl -- it already works now).
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:58:51 GMT
IBM most certainly does sell Thinkpads pre-loaded with Linux. Here is
a link, but it is very long so if it does not wrap/load correctly go
to ibm.com/shop/thinkpads/spec sheets/A and T Series Thinkpads and you
will see some of them come pre-loaded with Caldera 2.4
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/335a6c936e79bb9f8525676400687b2f/cb50b7edeb405d96852569bd0077889b?OpenDocument
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:03:26 GMT, "Chad Myers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <mpVm6.70808$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > This is contrary to the press release that came out earlier in 2000 from
>> > IBM+Microsoft that said that IBM was going to be deploying Win2K Pro to
>> > thousands of their desktops.
>> >
>> > I can find the URL, I suppose, if you don't believe me.
>> >
>> > I never heard anything about the server side, but IBM has a "dog food"
>> > policy, so it wouldn't suprise me if they didn't allow anything other
>> > than their own software on the servers.
>> >
>>
>> It is true that new Thinkpads have W2K installed by default. But Linux
>> is being installed on many of those Thinkpads as we speak. And many
>> people I know are happy to get rid of Windows. Just because Windows
>> comes pre-installed doesn't mean it is actually used.
>
>We were talking about IBM using or not using Win2K internally and
>were ignoring the OEM for the moment, but since you decided to change
>the subject...
>
>Could you please show us where you can get Linux installed on a Thinkpad?
>I'm browsing IBM's online commerce site and I'm browsing the Thinkpads
>(weird, I don't see many "Buy" buttons, it's almost like they don't
>want you to buy them... leave it to IBM..). I can't seem to find ANY
>mention of linux whatsoever.
>
>I'm even browsing the bargain laptops and I come across this:
>
>http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=2059061&cn
>trfnbr=1&cgmenbr=1&cntry=840&lang=en_US
>(URL possibly wrapped)
>
>And at the bottom, it talks about Win2K a lot, and then I see this
>tidbit of information:
>
>"IBM recommends Windows 2000 Professional for business"
>
>Again, I see no mention of Linux anywhere.
>
>Here I finally find a Laptop with an "add to cart" button.
>I choose customize to see if I can change the OS, and low and behold,
>http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1926569&cnt
>rfnbr=1&prmenbr=1&cntry=840&lang=en_US&shoptype=D
>(URL possibly wrapped)
>
>No choice in OS.
>
>Where is Linux?
>
>-Chad
>
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: A question for a user who wants to jump the M$ ship
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:58:52 +0000
Robert MacGregor wrote:
> My biggest reservations are that I have such an attachment
> to my windows apps..
Yes, I know the feeling, I'm in the same boat. Although in
my case the release of Borland's Kylix may just swing it...
> * MS Outlook
Open Office(aka Star office) is the best integrated PIM/Email
tool I've seen.
> * Internet Explorer (i sooo hate Netscape these days..
it just sucks, compared to IE!!!!!
Me I hate IE :-)
But have you tried Opera? Now its free it should be worth
a whirl... And Mozilla is smaller and faster than Netscape 6
- but still works pretty much the same way.
> * Dreamweaver Ultradev
Heard lots of good stuff about this one but I only ever use
vim for web development. Everything else screws up my HTML
too much. And DW costs too much to experiment with...
Only heavyweight HTML editor I know of on Linux is HoTMetaL.
Not sure what version its up to tho'
> * ERWin (a top notch database modeling tool.. i'm a web app developer)
Dunno of any good ERD tools on Linux.
I assume some of the heavyweight Unix vendors(Sofware Thru'
Pictures/Teamwork etc) will have Linux support but expect
to pay Unix prices!!!
> * TOAD (a tool for oracle application developers)
I thought TOAD was available for Linux?
> * Rational Rose
I thought Rational had a Linux version available now?
Alternatives include I-Logix Rhapsody and TogetherJ(??)
> But then there's ones like Flash and
No chance :-)
> QuarkXpress
The biggie of DTP on Unix is Framemaker.
There's a free Linux trial/beta version on the Adobe site.
Should do anything Quark can do.
Have you looked at wine? It can handle a surprising amount
of windows apps nowadays... Look how far Corel have gone
with Corel office...
Alan g.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Hijacking the IP stack
Date: 28 Feb 2001 10:02:10 -0700
Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have seen it here that Microsoft used a lot of BSD code in its
> networking. Specifically, someone here said that much of the IP stack
> in NT and Windows 2000 is really "borrowed" BSD code. There is a writer
> who is interested but is asking me for some concrete evidence of BSD
> code specifically in Microsoft networking code, particularly in their
> implementation of TCP/IP.
>
> Can anyone point me to an authoritative reference?
Well, when Windows 2000 beta1 came out nmap identified it as FreeBSD
by using tcp/ip signatures. BSD changed the license so that
recognition is no longer required, so Microsoft doesn't have to give
credit to them.
Actually, I think the whole debate is silly. People should share code
more often than they do, and if Microsoft used BSD code in their
tcp/ip stack, more power to them because they had more free time to
work on other things.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
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