Linux-Advocacy Digest #963, Volume #32 Wed, 21 Mar 01 07:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Here's a load of horse crap (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Why can't Apple do it? ("Paul 'Z' Ewande®")
Re: Unix/Linux Professionalism (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Chris Croughton)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation (Pete Goodwin)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: What is user friendly? (Anonymous)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (Shane Phelps)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Here's a load of horse crap
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:23:03 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Giuliano Colla wrote:
> >
> > Ed Allen wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >Weevil wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Shades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >> news:990osv$gbn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I suppose those lightbulbs are innovative ideas in the software industry
> > > >> and
> > > >> > in the next picture he gets up and stomps all over them :-)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> > > http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/default.asp
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > [ Do Not Make Illegal Copies of This Message ]
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Q: How many Microsoft programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
> > > >>
> > > >> A: Three. Two to hold the ladder and one to hammer the bulb into the
> > > >> faucet.
> > > >
> > > >Sorry, wrong answer. The correct answer is:
> > > >
> > > >None. If the bulb goes off then MS declares darkness the new standard.
> > >
> > > That is the old answer but his provides enjoyment through
> > > afterthoughts.
> > >
> > > Like:
> > >
> > > How many do they break before they figure they need something to
> > > cushion the hammer blows ?
> > >
> > > After making the cushion device and getting it into the faucet they
> > > will need to make an extraction tool before they can run electric
> > > wires through the water pipe.
> > >
> > > They will need to hire more lawyers to patent this new technology
> > > they are inventing.
> > >
> > > Life is hard when you are a Softie.
> >
> > You forgot the following.
> >
> > Once they've finally figured out that in order to insert the bulb you
> > must push it in and then turn, you have:
> >
> > Q: How many Microsoft programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> > A: Five: one to push the bulb, and four to rotate the ladder.
> >
>
> You forgot the one who has to go under the sink and turn off the
> water supplies to the faucet.
>
It will be provided with next SP.
> > >
> > > --
> > > GPL says
> > > "What's mine is ours,
> > > If you make *OUR* stuff better the result is still ours."
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
Giuliano Colla
Before activating the tongue, make sure that the brain is
connected (anonymous)
------------------------------
From: "Paul 'Z' Ewande®" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why can't Apple do it?
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:25:30 +0100
"Lars Träger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message news:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<SNIP> Some salt </SNIP>
> "Buy" as in A: purchase something; or B: take someones word as the
> truth. "That's [y]our fault " was a typo (or rather a broken "y"-key).
Ah ok, the typo threw me off. I would buy some CEOs products, but would take
anything they say with *huge* amounts of salt, whatever the CEO, i just
don't find them trustworthy. :)
> Lars T.
Paul 'Z' Ewande
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unix/Linux Professionalism
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:27:59 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> "." wrote:
> >
> > > > The world must be at least 80% dumbass.
> > >
> > > And encouraging the survival of dumbasses is beneficial how, exactly?
> >
> > I'm not encouraging it. The dumbasses continue to prosper and expand,
> > despite my best attempts to thwart them.
> >
>
> Unfortunately, certain political factions in the 1930's and 1940's
> gave eugenics a bad name.
>
> Now we have a society that thinks it's a virtue to subsidize the
> reproductive efforts of those who, quite seriously, are not fit.
>
> > Pretty soon, they'll start making operating systems that break all the time,
> > and due to the spread of their kind to positions of power (such as
> > management), it will be amazingly successful.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure I stated my opinions on clueless users... that they can be
> > trained to use any system to get their work done.
> > Clueless user != reason to give them windows.
>
> Precisely.
>
> Users will use whatever they are plopped down in front of.
>
> > Another problem here is that clueless user != stupid user either. Clueless
>
> Precisely. the argument against Unix is that Users are unable to learn.
>
> Ignorance is not knowing....which is remedied quite easily.
>
> On the other hand...Windows software bugs....cannot be remedied
> at any price.
>
Here you're wrong. I got rid of all Windows bugs at the
price of US$ 20. That's the cost of a Linux book with
included installation CD. Then I paid an extra 50$ or so,
for a boxed set, to get more manuals and lots of
applications, because of slow Internet connection.
> > user - user without knowledge of the system. Stupid user - monkey that
> > couldn't be trained to use a command line because it's beyond their mental
> > capacity.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
Giuliano Colla
Before activating the tongue, make sure that the brain is
connected (anonymous)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Croughton)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: 21 Mar 2001 10:33:03 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:10:51 -0500, Shades
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
(I wrote:)
>> I think you have to SaveAs a Word<n> document (or as text, RTF or some
>> other common format). As far as I saw (before giving up) it wouldn't
>> support anything later than the first WordForWindows (Word6, I think)
>> format, but they may have extended it.
>
>I assume this is Word 2000? If so you have to have installed the
>additions file conversion support to have more listings in your "Save
>As". I did this when I needed to and it supports RTF just fine.
No, I was referring to StarOffice as per the subject of the thread (and
as the previous quotes (which you snipped) made clear). The subject was
saving StarOffice files so that they can be read with M$ Word.
Chris C
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:17:40 +0100
In article <T8Wt6.21553$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> "Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> >> This is done by providing the Source code of the software.
>> >>
>> >Source code distribution isn't required by the GPL... Go ask Cygnus
>> >for all of their GPLed source code: they don't have to give it to you.
>>
>> Should I copy section 3a of the GPL for you or are you willing to read
>> it yourself and come back then?
>
> The GPL only requires source distribution to those who obtain binaries.
> There are no restrictions on the terms you can place on the binaries,
> and no requirement to distribute anything at all.
There is indeed no requirement to distribute anything at all;
such a requirement would be unenforceable, and its inclusion
would weaken the credibility of the license.
As to restrictions on the binaries, as derivative works of the
source code, they must be licensed under the GPL (or a
compatible license), in my understanding.
I would appreciate your elucidating your contention,
preferably with citations from the GPL and/or the copyright
and other relevant statutes.
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:30:58 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"John S. Dyson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> "Peter Seebach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message =
> news:3ab84a3b$0$48741$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> to give *YOU* source.
>> Neither of us is obliged to further share this with anyone else.
> In fact, if someone has paid Cygnus for support (that is BIG bucks),
> then they are probably not very likely to give the source code away
> to the 'little guy' who cannot afford the cost of access.
As there is no requirement to distribute (which would be
unenforceable anyway, lest one condones serious intrusions
of privacy), your statement is factually correct.
It is also dishonest, as such a requirement is not present
(and cannot be present) in licenses you have previously
granted the right to use the moniker "free", or for that
matter, in PD material. You'll obviously argue absence
of requirements, or presence of requirements, as long
as it suits your preconceived ideas.
In addition to tweaking your honesty dial, could you also
tweak Outlook Express to
a) keep the line length below 72 characters
b) not use quoted printable.
Frankly, I don't hold out much hope for you doing either.
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:55:49 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Croughton) writes:
>
> No, I was referring to StarOffice as per the subject of the thread (and
> as the previous quotes (which you snipped) made clear). The subject was
> saving StarOffice files so that they can be read with M$ Word.
I've reasonable luck in producing files for Word. There
are a few formatting problems (like right-shifted footer
contents, jumping illustrations, form feeds eliminated
after the ToC, etc). Nothing major, and nothing that one
doesn't get when importing Word files generated by other
versions/installations of Word.
This experience has taught me that Word users don't seem
to mind "minor" formatting problems when opening third-party
documents.
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie!
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:54:11 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Actually, I don't think that'll work at all, rpm -U requires
> package names, not package filenames. One can do something silly
> like
>
> rpm -U `ls *.rpm | sed 's,\.rpm$,,'`
>
> of course. (Disclaimer: I haven't tested this.)
I've tried rpm -U *.rpm style commands, it worked at other times.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie!
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:52:44 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> > really now, just "rpm -U *.rpm"
> >
> > Again, that will not work without any warning messages either. You will
> > get a few "xxx conflicts with...." warning messages. At least try what
> > you claim to have done, before you post. Jeez.
> >
> Should I chime in here? I grant that I last used rpm at version 3.04, and
> it is now at version 4.01 I believe, but:
> 1. it is quite possible to install using rpm -i over an old installation,
> it is just not recommended practice.
It is quite possible this is what I did.
> 2. rpm -Uvh *.rpm on a directory full of rpms *will* sort out the
> dependencies. That really threw me when I first tried it, as I was used to
> the usual 'can't install foo ; foo depends on bar' error messages.
No, that doesn't ring any bells. I think it must have been rpm -i after
all.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE 2.1 oopsie!
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:50:07 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> really now, just "rpm -U *.rpm"
>
> Again, that will not work without any warning messages either. You will get a
> few "xxx conflicts with...." warning messages. At least try what you claim to
> have done, before you post. Jeez.
I see, you want me to undo all the changes I have made on a _working_
system just to detail exactly what I did for you. Will you be terribly
surprised if I say "no way!". Since what I have is KDE 2.1 and appears to
work, with a few bugs, I'm not going through all the hoops just to either
get a broken system or to get back exactly where I started!
> No, I am not a practicing attorney, but why should I believe something that is
> verifiably false? More over, why should you have any credibility, at all, when
> you claim that something is defective, and as evidence, you present details
> which we know can not be true? Why should we care what you say, when you don't
> even relay accurate information as evidence?
I don't think you care what I say either way, anyway.
> I am not calling you a liar, that would require that I knew that you had
> intended to deceive. I think, however, there is sufficient information
> presented in this thread to conclude that what you post is not reliable
> information.
So you can comfortably dismiss it. I see.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:08:52 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Powerpoint. What's that? Something I plug the kettle in to? Hey. My
> computer has a powerpoint. Why can't I plug my kettle in to it?
Powerpoint is a cli command is it?
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:58:37 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Of course Windows 2000 is superior to KDE!
>
> ...in your opinion.
For the reasons I posted. They are not opinions, they are facts.
> > Then why are you still using it Charlie? Wassamatta? Not got the guts to
> > leave your support job on Windows NT that you spoke about before and get
> > a job on your nirvana, Linux?
>
> If he hasn't, millions have, and the migration is only beginning.
Then why hasn't he? What's stopping him? He obviously hates Windows, yet
he still has a job supporting it?
> > Could it be because it PAYS better than anything you could find with
> > Linux?
> >
>
> Washington Post, 1/7/1999
> SYSTEM SALARY
>
> IBM/AS400 70,954
> Solaris 66,205
> LINUX 61,027
> Windows NT 59,331
> Macintosh OS 49,677
Then it makes even less sense for him to stay. So, Charlie, why aren't
you chasing after these jobs in Linux for $61k? They obviously pay better
than NT!
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:52:03 +0100
Terry Porter wrote:
> On 19 Mar 2001 08:27:07 -0600, Jon Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>"Electric Ninja" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:Wpht6.28385$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> For getting work done I love Win2000 like a charm but I'm scared to
>>> death
>>to
>>> have something like that running one of our aircraft carriers.
>>
>>Why? It works as well as any other server OS...
>>
>>
> I vote for Jon Johanson as "The Most Clueless Wintroll, 2001" anyone
> second my vote ?
>
Yep, I do.
Although at times Chad Myers is a close runner up.
Peter
--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 04:36:48 -0700
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Craig. I read the entire thread. My wife (almost
> computer-illiterate) has been complaining about the Win98SE version
> interface for quit some time. It isn't the unified structure of the
> usuability of windows that she complains about, its when she gets half
> way through a project and tries to print out her work the system
> freezes. That is not a very good psychological environment for her.
> All it has caused her was frustration and anger. The freeze ups are
> intermittent without any rhyme or reason.
> One day the system works one way, the next day its doing it a little
> differently.
>
> On my computer I have dual boot Solaris 8 and WinSE on an IBM. Windows
> locks up occasionaly there as well. But not while I'm in Solaris.
> Approachability has been greatly improved and I introduced my wife to
> CDE. It has a nice beginners tutorial, just like windows, to get her
> started. The thing she liked was it was very consistent and didn't
> confuse her by changing its characteristics. She liked the fact that it
> didn't frustrate her into anger. (Maybe she'll buy us a couple of Sun
> Blades!)
> The biggest feature she liked was the spreading out of her projects over
> a few full screen windows and then clicking into a window and then
> transferring data back and forth without having to wait. And there are
> other software apps that came with it that she also liked. Note that she
> didn't have to learn the Unix CLI to run CDE apps.
how much would someone have to pay you to set that up for them?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:44:16 +1100
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <3ab61681$0$44575$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jon Johanson"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > <snip some some stuff>
> > >
> > > At least they can hit something - unlike the rest of the world's
> > > military.
> > >
> > >
> > Hmm,
> >
> > One example: the Dutch Royal Marine Corps. One of the toughest bunch of
> > bastards you've ever seen. Served with distinction in Cambodia, Beirut
> > and Bosnia (after our braindead politicians realized that that is no
> > place for lightly armed, unsupported troops).
> > And this is only a small example, I think a lot of Europeans can think 2
> > or 3 more for their own homelands.
> > Please refrain from making unsupported and unsupportable claims, you'll
> > only make yourself look foolish.
>
> But, when it comes down to it, when something needs to get done in the
> world, only the Americans can seem to get it done.
>
> -c
Like East Timor?
Let's just get back to the Chev vs Ford (oops, Linux Vs Windows) flamewars?
------------------------------
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