Linux-Advocacy Digest #337, Volume #33 Wed, 4 Apr 01 03:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Baseball ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Baseball ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Jeffrey Siegal)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Martigan)
Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux? (Martigan)
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? (cjt & trefoil)
I'm so happy! (Martigan)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (GreyCloud)
Re: Baseball (GreyCloud)
Re: Baseball (GreyCloud)
Re: Baseball (GreyCloud)
Re: Baseball (GreyCloud)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:09:09 GMT
"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:01:09 +1200, Matthew Gardiner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Ever played rugby? Ever been in the position of having a 140KG Somoan
charging towards you
> >(and you're only 85KG), and being hammered when trying to tackle the
person? I also find
> >it rather amazing how little Septic Tanks know about the world outside
the US? Did you
> >know we have Televisions, Tree's, cars, computers, I know, its probably
has come as quite a
> >big shock to you.
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
> >
>
> Big deal. You don't have the SuperBowl. Are those tin cans you drive
around in called
> "cars"?
Hey! Austin Healeys were damned cool! I had one albeit briefly. At 6'3", I
didn't so much drive it as wear it
> Here in America we call them go-carts. Yes, you do have television, but
it's
> really crappy.
I'll take "Are You Being Served?" reruns over OUR television any day of the
week.
Also....Two words.... Monty Python
> Not only that, but you boil all your food until there's no taste left,
Having eaten food prepared by Irish relatives, I have to agree with that
point!
> and you all have really bad teeth. Do you have dentists over there? Even
your most
> famous citizen, Austin Powers, has bad teeth.
The dental thing is a mystery to me too...
> Here in America, everyone has bright
> white teeth, big TV sets for watching great shows like Opra and Jerry
Springer
The very reasons I prefer BritCom reruns...
> Ford Excursions for going 1 mile to get a big juicy Wopper at Burger
King...
Who in the HELL came up with the idea to sell tanks to former BMW owning
yuppies? I love watching "Buffy" and "Bif" try to manhandle those things
during our infrequent snowstorms (Southern Tennessee). When I moved here, I
wondered at the lack of sidewalks and the big-assed ditches on either side
of the roads. I get it now...SUV collection pits.
> and, of course, the SuperBowl.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:13:48 GMT
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ae1tr$f9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Rugby is more than a sport, its a religion, LOL!
>
> New Zealanders love their sport. In fact, if you look at what happens
when
> the all blacks win, the economy picks up, however, when they loose the
> economy slows down, so maybe the US need a decent rugby, soccer and
cricket
> team to help fix up the sagging economy.
Newly-unemployed dot-com workers forced to play rugby for a living would
make for entertaining television, that's for sure.
------------------------------
From: Jeffrey Siegal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:34:39 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> >Of course it is. In a legal sense, a computer is a tool, like a pot or
> >a pan (or a photocopier).
>
> Tools can't 'read' things. If the computer is a tool, so's the
> software, and you can't copyright a tool.
Thank you, Max. You've finally posted something so thoughtless and
idiotic that I've decided to stop reading your posts at all. I
appreciate the saved time.
------------------------------
From: Martigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:35:47 GMT
Zed Mister wrote:
> Even if it did stand up in court, which is highly doubtful, there are ways
> of protecting content that is actually important to the user.
> Furthermore, Microsoft would be in deep shit if they actually tried to
> exercise this so-called 'right' in a court of law, if not with the courts
> themselves, definitely with the public who hears about the court
> proceedings.
>
> Now let's say that I have a highly sensitive and unsubmitted patent
> document
> that I want to work on in collaboration with a partner. Let's say for the
> sake of argument he has a hotmail account. I can always encrypt this mail
> using a variety of means and send that. He would need to decrypt the
> content using my key to successfully view it. If I had to send something
> to an individual I do not know, but am afraid they will pass on the
> information, I can have them agree to a non-disclosure agreement before
> sending the documentation in encrypted form. That's it. You are then
> legally covered by the law. Microsoft can't do shit.
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:oMuy6.27156$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > <sigh> Do you guys ever think for youself?
> >
> > Do you think that any such terms would ever stand up in court?
> > Of course not.
> >
> > Just because it's in a license agreement does not mean it's instantly
> > law.
> >
> > -c
Please let us not firget that M$ has many lawyers with them when they
write the agreement.
------------------------------
From: Martigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:38:51 GMT
mlw wrote:
> Yes, I know about "configure" and "make," but for binary distribution, is
> there an open source installer? One, gasp, which is pretty and
> programmable, will switch to root to perform the install? If so I haven't
> seen it.
>
> While I think Install Shield is a miserable hack, and anyone that has used
> it will fundamentally agree, it gets the job done.
>
> So, if one were to write such a program, should it be able to handle
> RetHat and Debian packages? Or would it be OK to simply use its own
> format? Self extracting is a must.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
>
Well you could always code one and go from there ;-)
I wouldn't want a program to instantly goto # for me. That's scarry!
------------------------------
From: cjt & trefoil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 01:49:46 -0500
At what point does Intel just throw in the towel on IA-64?
Hugh Bonney wrote:
>
> In comp.arch 2 + 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Can Sun battle Intel in chips, IBM in the high end market and Microsoft in
> : the software platforms areas all at one time with profits in the Dell range
> : in a DOWNTURN?
>
> Well, the retreating tide lowers all the boats...
>
> Unless Intel can generate enough FUD to cause disinvestment in other
> architectures, why would anyone think IA-64 that much of a threat?
> They did seem to be trying to do that before it appeared. Now they
> are busy telling us to not pay attention to the man behind the
> curtain,
>
> H.---
------------------------------
From: Martigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: I'm so happy!
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:55:35 GMT
You know why? No not the hamster....no goats either.
I converted to Linux about three months ago and love it. Hell I tried
to copy some files from my ext2 to fat32 in a GUI and it didn't work at
all. So I just poped open the terminal and did a $cp /home/foo /mnt/win_e
and it didn't work either.
What makes me happy is what I can do with linux, windoze dreams about!
You know what I did? I typed $ info cp . Thats it and got all the info on
options and envocations. ;-) Any time I have a problem the 'info' or 'man'
is there. No over bloated indexed help menus that tell you what you
already know, or tell you to contact M$ for more help.
Thank you for the time, and sorry if I bored ya. I'm just happy!
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:50:09 -0700
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:pCsy6.1863$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > That is what licence agreements are for. You read them and then agree to
> > them or you don't. My advice don't use the service. As for banning incoming
> > mail from M$ that sounds like something they would do.
> >
> > "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > ******************************************************
> > > By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> > > http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
> > >
> > > Microsoft should be feared and despised!
> > > ----------------------------------------
> > >
> > > After taking the time to read the Microsoft Passport Web Site Terms of Use
> > > and Notices I have had a belly full of them. The potential damage they can
> > > do with this license is staggering. I encourage everyone to take the time
> > to read it,
> > > particularly the section entitled "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT". If you've ever
> > > had any doubts about the nature of that company reading that section
> > should
> > > put them to rest for good and all!
> > >
> > > I don't know how many times I've heard Microsoft described as "evil" by
> > > Linux zealots and open source supporters (which I am both) and thought,
> > > "They're losing it... Microsoft is just a company!" but now I'm forced
> > > to agree with them. This license is heinous, and more, it's frightening
> > > because I know that some people won't read it and will lose the rights
> > > to their own data/content without knowing. Add that to the fact that
> > > the license is clearly attempting to gain the rights to *ALL CONTENT
> > > WHICH PASSES OVER ANY SERVICE THEY PROVIDE*. For example... this
> > > article could be copied by someone and sent to someone else who uses
> > > the hotmail email service. According to the license Microsoft would then
> > > own the rights to this article! Unbelieveable you say? Go read it and see
> > > for yourself.
> > >
> > > Most of the time when confronted with things like this I may rage for
> > > a while but I usually conclude that there is little that I can do to
> > > cause the policy to change so why bother doing anything at all but not
> > > this time!
> > >
> > > Effective with this posting the following blocks are in place against
> > > email inbound to MoonGroup.com or any of it's domains. If you truly
> > > understand what their license means you will do the same on your mail
> > > server.
> > >
> > > msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > >
> > > As this is clearly a pre-cursor of what Microsoft's .Net initative is
> > > all about I will be watching very closely to see where it goes. I had
> > > thought that SOAP might be something very useful which would help to
> > > open them up a bit but after reading this license it's clear to me that
> > > all that .Net and Hailstorm are going to be is just another sad example
> > > of "embrace and extend".
> > >
> > > I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
> > >
> > > Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
>
> <sigh> Do you guys ever think for youself?
>
> Do you think that any such terms would ever stand up in court?
> Of course not.
>
> Just because it's in a license agreement does not mean it's instantly
> law.
>
> -c
C'mon chad. Wake up my man. Smell spring in the air. What if you had
written a best seller and sent it thru msn.com and you were dunned a
percentage or even denied any profits from your own works. Wouldn't you
be pissed off?
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:53:55 -0700
Alan Baker wrote:
>
> Oh... ...my... ...god.
>
> How arrogant.
>
> Read it:
>
> "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT
> By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any
> feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of communication
> with or through the Passport Web Site, you warrant and represent that
> you own or otherwise control the rights necessary to do so and you are
> granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies permission to:
>
> 1. Use, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly
> perform, reproduce, publish, sublicense, create derivative works from,
> transfer, or sell any such communication.
> 2. Sublicense to third parties the unrestricted right to exercise any of
> the foregoing rights granted with respect to the communication.
> 3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication.
>
> The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary
> rights in such communication, including but not limited to rights under
> copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant
> jurisdiction. No compensation will be paid with respect to Microsoft's
> use of the materials contained within such communication. Microsoft is
> under no obligation to post or use any materials you may provide and may
> remove such materials at any time in Microsoft's sole discretion."
>
> Basically Microsoft is trying to steal anything of value that you might
> pass through their servers.
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with Chad's suggestion. If you run a mail server,
> refuse to forward mail from any of Microsoft's domains.
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett) wrote:
>
> >******************************************************
> >By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> >http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
> >
> >Microsoft should be feared and despised!
> >----------------------------------------
> >
> >After taking the time to read the Microsoft Passport Web Site Terms of Use
> >and Notices I have had a belly full of them. The potential damage they can
> >do with this license is staggering. I encourage everyone to take the time to
> >read it,
> >particularly the section entitled "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT". If you've ever
> >had any doubts about the nature of that company reading that section should
> >put them to rest for good and all!
> >
> >I don't know how many times I've heard Microsoft described as "evil" by
> >Linux zealots and open source supporters (which I am both) and thought,
> >"They're losing it... Microsoft is just a company!" but now I'm forced
> >to agree with them. This license is heinous, and more, it's frightening
> >because I know that some people won't read it and will lose the rights
> >to their own data/content without knowing. Add that to the fact that
> >the license is clearly attempting to gain the rights to *ALL CONTENT
> >WHICH PASSES OVER ANY SERVICE THEY PROVIDE*. For example... this
> >article could be copied by someone and sent to someone else who uses
> >the hotmail email service. According to the license Microsoft would then
> >own the rights to this article! Unbelieveable you say? Go read it and see
> >for yourself.
> >
> >Most of the time when confronted with things like this I may rage for
> >a while but I usually conclude that there is little that I can do to
> >cause the policy to change so why bother doing anything at all but not
> >this time!
> >
> >Effective with this posting the following blocks are in place against
> >email inbound to MoonGroup.com or any of it's domains. If you truly
> >understand what their license means you will do the same on your mail
> >server.
> >
> >msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their services
> >will be accepted.
> >msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their services
> >will be accepted.
> >microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> >services will be accepted.
> >microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> >services will be accepted.
> >hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> >services will be accepted.
> >hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> >services will be accepted.
> >
> >As this is clearly a pre-cursor of what Microsoft's .Net initative is
> >all about I will be watching very closely to see where it goes. I had
> >thought that SOAP might be something very useful which would help to
> >open them up a bit but after reading this license it's clear to me that
> >all that .Net and Hailstorm are going to be is just another sad example
> >of "embrace and extend".
> >
> >I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
> >
> >Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
> >
> >
> >Here are some related links:
> >
> >The Register.COM article:
> >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18002.html
> >
> >Troubleshooters.COM new copyright and other articles:
> >http://www.troubleshooters.com/cpyright.htm
> >http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_new_copyright
> >http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_three_articles
> >
> >LEAP Thread (first article in thread):
> >http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/leaplist/2001-April/011248.html
> >
> >By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> >
> >******************************************************
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that
> wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the
> bottom of that cupboard."
There is only one term for this: MEGALOMANIA!
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:57:53 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said David Brown in alt.destroy.microsoft on Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:53:52
> [...]
> >>> They like to think its a game of strategy.
> >
> >The strategy being to be bigger, faster, and stupider than the opponent
> >team.
>
> That's tactics, not strategy.
>
> >>> Do you think there's more strategy in cricket then in baseball? I've
> >>> watched both, but I know the rules and strategy to baseball, having
> >>> grown up American. They're both pretty boring. I'm interested in
> >>> learning a bit of some of the strategy. It seems a really wacked game
> >>> from the brief descriptions I've heard.
> >
> >I don't know about strategy, but at least baseball is fun to play. How
> >anyone could find cricket interesting is beyond me.
>
> Well, they do, so I guess that just means you don't understand it.
> Which is my point; either is boring as shit if you don't understand it.
> I understand baseball, but I don't understand Cricket (and here I mean
> "know the rules and some of the strategy".)
>
> >>> But "gridiron" ('American football') is about *mass*, not *flexibility*,
> >>> that's wtf with the pads and shit. Rugby (isn't that what you guys call
> >>> your version of gridiron?) is for pansies, in comparison. You might as
> >>> well play soccer.
> >
> >I think you'll find that American "football" is your version of rugby,
> >rather than the other way round. In my youth, I tried to understand the
> >concepts of American football. As you say, mass is important, whereas
> >flexibility, skill and intelligence seem sadly lacking.
>
> Unless you're the 'field commander', the quarter-back, all you need is
> cunning, not intelligence. And "skill" is a dubious term, in context,
> clearly meant as nothing but an ad hominem insult.
>
> >As far as I
> >understand it, there are a couple of players who need to be reasonably
> >skillful (good throwers, runners or kickers), whereas everyone else just
> >needs to charge mindlessly at each other and get in the way.
>
> Hey, its a skill. Like I said, its a game of strategy. You keep
> getting confused by the tactics.
>
> >The players
> >all wear so much armour instead of being smart enough and fast enough to get
> >out of the way. They then need five minute breaks every two minutes of play
> >to recover. Rugby, on the other hand, is a game of speed and skill as well
> >as strength.
>
> Well, in response to the guy who thought it was "all that" to have a big
> Samoan charging them, I'd suggest that its worse if he's armored. And
> not being armored yourself is more a sign of stupidity than manliness,
> in such a situation.
>
> It's like the barbarians whining at the "pansy Romans" with all their
> silly armor. You have a little game with a funny looking ball (so you
> can't kick it like soccer, I guess, as I can't see any other difference
> in the games), we have a sport testing the brute strength, skill,
> cunning, and intelligence of a team of warriors.
>
> Or at least that's the way I'd put it if I were serious about such a
> pissing match. As it stands, I don't watch sports, and I could care
> less whether they wear pads in any particular one or not.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Are you sure about all of this?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:59:53 -0700
"." wrote:
>
> > Well, in response to the guy who thought it was "all that" to have a big
> > Samoan charging them, I'd suggest that its worse if he's armored. And
> > not being armored yourself is more a sign of stupidity than manliness,
> > in such a situation.
>
> I'm not impressed by a big Samoan charging at me, although it would
> certainly make me want to move the fuck out of the way at top speed.
>
> What I am impressed with is the size of the people playing rugby when
> compared with the size of the guys playing American
> football/gridiron/tacklehappy or whatever you call it. The football teams
> NEED all that padding to look big (exceptions, as always), whereas the guys
> who play rugby are usually akin to the brick shithouse.
>
> But I fully agree on the stupidity front. I think both games are fuckin
> stupid. Maim the other team while attempting to get the pointy ball to this
> particular place.
>
> > It's like the barbarians whining at the "pansy Romans" with all their
> > silly armor. You have a little game with a funny looking ball (so you
> > can't kick it like soccer, I guess, as I can't see any other difference
> > in the games), we have a sport testing the brute strength, skill,
> > cunning, and intelligence of a team of warriors.
>
> That's one possible theory, but I think the reality is that most of the
> great thinking minds don't actually play professional rugby or football, so
> it pretty much turns into a brawn match... I don't think you'll hear many
> players commenting on what an intellectual match the Red Peckers vs the
> Mighty Buttocks was.
The last I heard when the NFL played in Britain was "Gawd they're BIG!"
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 01:01:51 -0700
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> Hence, the reason why I only played a couple of seasons, then I took up
> debating and speeches for the rest of College. Believe me, rugby players
> aren't exactly rocket scientists, and you could easily pick them out in a
> music class, they'd be the ones trying to work out how to play the drums.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
>
Ah! A man with common sense!
Jock strappers really don't have brains.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 01:05:49 -0700
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> That sounds pretty stupid. For the record, I am not from the UK, I'm from
> New Zealand.
>
> Also, that was the typical septic tank reply I was expecting. For a country
> that raises their youth to only know what happens in Septic Tank Land, I am
> surprised you don't have more problems than you do now. A president that
> wants to screw the earth. A ex-president who couldn't keep his dick in his
> underwear, high school shootings left, right and centre, KKK - created in a
> country that promots "racial tolerance", Jahova Witnesses and Mormons - only
> country that accepts weird, screwed up cults, I swear, I have never met a
> New Zealander or an Aussie who is a Johava witness, and if I do meet one in
> New Zealand, they are a septic tanks, still using imperial measurements,
> which is quite surprising that you (Septic's), tried to rid yourself of all
> things associated with the UK, except you missed that minor detail, a
> country whose population throws out 25% of the worlds pollution, cars that
> are so big and chew through petrol so fast, I swear a hot curry would stay
> in me longer.....need I go on further?
>
> Matthew Gardiner
>
> <snype>
Unfortunately, you are correct. Ol Slick Willy aka. "The Arkansas
Greased Dick" is an embarassment to this country. I wished our limp
weenied politicians had the guts to impeach him out of office. :-(
--
V
------------------------------
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