Linux-Advocacy Digest #345, Volume #33 Wed, 4 Apr 01 07:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What is user friendly? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: NT multitasking: some humiliating defeats! :) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Baseball ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Rick)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:14:46 -0400
GreyCloud wrote:
>
> Bloody Viking wrote:
> >
> > GreyCloud ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> > : No,... I don't think so. You see, with every release of windows, the
> > : user has to keep upgrading to a newer system to maintain the same
> > : response. With the Pentium IV, which is turning into a space heater, it
> > : will run XP just fine.... but not my wifes' PII @ 233 Mhz. Linux offers
> > : the end user the opportunity to hang on to their machines a lot longer
> > : and go a lot easier on the wallet. I introduced my wife to CDE (Common
> >
> > I recognised this very problem a long time ago, long before CPUs became foot
> > warmers with the dissipated heat. I like knowing the machine I buy today will
> > last for years to come with Linux on it. I will be buying a used laptop from a
> > corporate "garage sale", surely surplus from the upgrade-go-round, but will
> > get it for $75. And I'll be putting Linux on it. Maybe no X, but it will run
> > Linux.
> >
> > : Desktop Environment) and she liked it a lot better than the Win98se that
> > : she has now. The tide is slowly turning as the common people that buy
> > : off the shelf ready to run computers to find that things worked one way
> > : yesterday and now things are working differently today.
> >
> > The upgrade-go-round is old hat. What's "new" is escalating prices for the
> > Winblows software.
> >
> > : Or, the very frustrated user, putting up with lock-ups or BSODS. The
> > : end user will start viewing this as something akin to a "Lemon". They
> > : will eventually start trying alternatives to get away from these
> > : frustrations. I'm not including NT or W2K in this list as you don't see
> > : these pre-loaded at any of our local stores, but maybe in large cities.
> >
> > Corporations are leading the way in looking for alternatives for servers now,
> > becuse of chronic BSODs. And in my case as a commoner who uses Linux, I have
> > distinct memories of lockups with 95 and 3.11. You'd be doing something and it
> > would randomly lock up with a GPF or some such crap. I always loved the
> > "general protection failt at <insert hex here>" message. Very user-UNfriendly!
> >
> > Windows is about as stable as a balancing bowl full of water.
> >
> >
> LOL!! The bowl of water trick is hard to do without spilling a drop.
> If you don't want to spill any water is to not pick it up!
>
> I may start a new thread on this one. An old electronics tech, retired
> after 33 years of service, but computer illiterate, wants to know if
> there are any computers that come with an O/S other than mickeysoft but
> still easy to use. He doesn't want to know a whole hell of a lot about
> the o/s... just wants to use it reliably. He has on his right hand a
> glove to keep his hand warm all of the time and can't use it on a mouse.
> Does Linux have a good solution for a non-southpaw? A pre-configured
> system with no admin is desired. He wants to communicate with his son
> via web-cam and just surf. He has fiber optics outside his house from
> AT&T. Any suggestions is really appreciated!
Yeah..buy him a glove that uses Thinsulate(tm), made by 3M.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:17:53 -0400
GreyCloud wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > GreyCloud wrote:
> > >
> > > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, GreyCloud
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote
> > > > on Sun, 01 Apr 2001 01:56:48 -0800
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> soc.singles removed from followups. (Um....insert your own joke regarding
> > > > >> weird crossposts here, folks. :-) )
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jan Johanson
> > > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >> wrote
> > > > >> on 24 Mar 2001 16:13:02 -0600
> > > > >> <3abd1b3f$0$28213$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> Which gets back to my main point:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Mafia$oft sticks you with code compiled for an 80486, and nothing
> > > > >> >> better....even if you're running a Pentium III.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Wrong. There is Pentium specific code in NT as well as Windows 2000. There
> > > > >> >are also processor specific speed ups for the PII and PIII OP sets, as well
> > > > >> >as specific speedups for MMS, SSE and SSEII.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Linux installs an 80386 kernal and apps BUT, it lets you re-make the
> > > > >> >kernal
> > > > >> >> and apps, so that you are using executable code that was optimized for
> > > > >> >> your CPU.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >So, can't run linux on a 286 without a recompile eh?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Can't run Linux on a 286 at all; it requires a flat address space.
> > > > >> At least, last time I checked. :-) Someone might have snuck in some
> > > > >> detection code deep in the kernel, but it would definitely require
> > > > >> a recompile with an intelligent compiler that can translate the
> > > > >> flat address space into segment:paragraph form. (And that's assuming
> > > > >> no code mucks with the translation tables and/or card registers in an
> > > > >> incompatible fashion within the drivers or modules during something
> > > > >> like DMA setup. Oy vey....)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> No, g++ isn't quite that intelligent, at least as far as I've
> > > > >> looked at it. :-)
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >More intelligent than VC++6.0. I have the MSDN CD-rom set. VC has
> > > > >trouble with multiple inheritance and the MSDN admits it by showing
> > > > >possible work-arounds. g++ seems to handle multiple inheritance quite
> > > > >well. As time goes on g++ will improve.
> > > >
> > > > Which is funny because ATL uses multiple inheritance (and templates)
> > > > pretty heavily. Take a look at VC++ wizard-generated code sometime. :-)
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Not sure if this is a bug or a feature or merely a reflection of the
> > > > >> sad legacy of backward compatibility we've been saddled with
> > > > >> because of the monopolistic tendencies of the software market -- said
> > > > >> tendencies being created either by ourselves (because we like it that
> > > > >> way?), or by a certain gigantic software vender that even now is still
> > > > >> trying to dominate the market, explaining that it's doing so
> > > > >> "for the sake of the naive user".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Also, because Intel was first, Motorola second. The 68000 series
> > > > >> was superior in terms of register usage and addressing capability.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >Using the "register" specification in a C program is far more useful on
> > > > >processors with orthogonal register usage than on Intel processors.
> > > > >Wish I could afford better, but all I can do now is get used VAXens.
> > > >
> > > > Now there was a nice machine language. None of this weird r/m stuff
> > > > or oddball bitmasking for different ops; one just has a byte opcode
> > > > and a series of operands, which could be immediate, memory, PIC,
> > > > register, offset(register), indexed (which even took into account
> > > > the size of the operand)...compilers would be almost trivial.
> > > >
> > > > There was complete orthogonality of 12 of its 16 registers (R0 was
> > > > dedicated to returns, but it could also be used), R12 = FP, R13 = AP,
> > > > R14 = SP, R15 = PC, if memory serves; in a pinch, one could probably
> > > > use AP as a scratch register, too). If one wanted to, one could
> > > > also use the very powerful macro assembler. I forget the specifics
> > > > of floating point (I think there was a separate set of registers for that),
> > > > but it was also well supported, with the usual instructions for
> > > > converting ints to floats/doubles, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, the VAX does disallow certain instruction types; moving
> > > > to an immediate operand or jumping to a register will most likely
> > > > result in an illegal instruction exception of some sort
> > > > (I forget the details, now). :-)
> > > >
> > > > It also had a well-engineered argument/stack frame, which everyone was
> > > > expected to follow (and which was supported by CALLS, CALLG,
> > > > and various PUSHes and POPs).
> > > >
> > > > VMS wasn't too bad, athough it tried to do too much; the one thing
> > > > I miss was the asynchronous service trap, which basically got called
> > > > when I/O completed. It also had some funny notions regarding
> > > > redirect ("ASSIGN SYS$INPUT filename" [*], as opposed to the simple "<").
> > > > But it was robust and well-documented, complete with built-in HELP
> > > > with a tree of topics. It felt like a very very heavy OS at the time,
> > > > but the VAXes I used at my employment had all of 5 and 8 megabytes
> > > > which means that compared to Win2k, it was a virtual featherweight!
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, as usual, we got the schlock x86 architecture which
> > > > has got to have the weirdest set of registers I've seen in a micro,
> > > > barring such oddballities as the 6502 (anyone else remember (22,X)
> > > > and (22),Y indirect addressing modes? :-) ).
> > > >
> > > > At least the 386+ is usable now. :-)
> > > >
> > > > [rest snipped]
> > > >
> > > > [*] I might have the arguments reversed. There was also an option on
> > > > the DCL ASSIGN command that could indicate whether the assignment
> > > > was for the duration of the process, or merely for the next image
> > > > (VMS differentiated between the two). However, I forget the
> > > > specific flag.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In DCL to make a variable local it was $ var1 := whatever...
> > > Global it was $ var2 :== whatever...
> >
> > Sounds like a bug breeding factory.
> >
>
> Not really... it's security. It makes your intent clear. But it also
> makes things difficult if one isn't aware of these nuances.
> Basically as one vendor put it "VMS is a wordy O/S and more akin to
> english, while UNIX is terse but more flexible." I learned VMS before
> anything else, except old IBM fortran. Now I'm on my own trying to
> learn UNIX and all its goodies. Being retired without any pressures
> makes UNIX a fun project.
Learn C and you will learn Unix.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT multitasking: some humiliating defeats! :)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:23:04 -0400
GreyCloud wrote:
>
> 667 Neighbor of the Beast wrote:
> >
> > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > >
> > > Said Stephen S. Edwards II in alt.destroy.microsoft on 3 Apr 2001
> > > >T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > >: Said Stephen S. Edwards II in alt.destroy.microsoft on 2 Apr 2001
> > > >: >Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > >[Stephen sighs, as he must address yet another well-known idiot]
> > >
> > > >: >: He's my friend you moron. That is more than "I heard". The guy told
> > > >: >: me. Did I see it? No. I don't have to.
> > > >: >
> > > >: >* Stephen takes out his UltimateClueStickOfDeath(tm)...
> > > >: >
> > > >: >*THWACK!*
> > > >: >
> > > >: >He "told" you. Hence, you "heard" it.
> > > >
> > > >: How revoltingly rude. You called it bullshit. THWACK, hence you
> > > >: ultimately are clueless, as he has more information than you do over
> > > >: whether it is true.
> > > >
> > > >His proof was "he heard it from someone else". He
> > > >even admitted that he hadn't seen it done, and
> > > >that he was merely "told" that it was done.
> >
> > You know, this is all just a little bit silly here. The claim was
> > that OS/2 could run over 255 programs at once. The fact that it can
> > run 255 programs at once is apparently not open to dispute, as this is
> > what IBM testing found. However, what is being attacked here is the
> > heretical notion that OS/2 can run *more* than 255 programs at once,
> > which is based on anecdotal evidence. *Note that there is no argument
> > that OS/2 can indeed run 255 programs at once!* Isn't Stephen being
> > silly here?
> > >
> > > >: >: > > : run 110 programs at once on 50 MHZ and 16 MB, without even slowing
> > > >: >: > > : much. Can Win-anything do that? No.
> > > >: >: > >
> > > >: >: > > Again, prove it. Show me a resepctable
> > > >: >: > > source that has actually done this, and
> > > >: >: > > I mean something other than your own
> > > >: >: > > anecdotal supposition.
> > > >: >
> > > >: >: One of my Amiga-using friends told me he did this.
> > > >: >
> > > >: >You did the exact opposite of what I requested.
> > > >: >Can't you read? I asked for a "source" other
> > > >: >than some "friend" of yours.
> > > >
> > > >: Go do it yourself. Is he on your payroll? Give us a single reason why
> > > >: it wouldn't be so, how about that, maybe?
> > > >
> > > >The burden of proof is on the person making the
> > > >claim.
> >
> > Once again, this is just a bit silly. Get 100 or 1000 Amiga users
> > together, tell them that my friend ran 110 programs on a 50 MHZ 16 MB
> > machine, and ask them if he is a liar. I am sure that most of them
> > would say something like, "Well, of course the Amiga can do that".
> > "Anybody knows that." Note that this is the anecdotal evidence that
> > is being attacked here. Notice Stephen's silly behavior.
> > >
> > >
>
> Any computer that has a multi-tasking O/S can run over 255 programs...
> Its a matter of if you want the results today or sometime next year.
>
When I was in college, we typically had up to 150 users on a 64 Meg,
4 x 30 MHz CPU Gould NP-1...usually running somewhere in the neighborhood
of 1000 processes...and response was very quick....quick enough that
I never noticed any delays (i.e. response was limited by the speed of
the 9600-bit/second serial lines to the terminals, not CPU bottlenecks.
> > > >: >I didn't ask for more anecdotal
> > > >: >citations.
> > > >
> > > >: No, you asked for evidence. These anecdotal citations are the evidence.
> > > >
> > > >No, hair-brain, they aren't.
> > >
> > > Sorry, putz, they are. They may or may not be proof, but they are
> > > evidence.
> > >
> > > >Evidence is something
> > > >that I can verify.
> > >
> > Notice here that Stephen continues to insist that all evidence showing
> > any OS is better than NT at anything, much less multitasking, is
> > "anecdotal". Note that Stephen refuses to comment on the c't Magazine
> > benchmark test of last August or the test this individual did on this
> > page.
> >
> > http://www.macarlo.com/warpfp12win2k1002.htm
> >
> > Why the silence, Stephen? Cat got ur tongue?
> > --
> > Bob
> > Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
> > today!
> > Why do you think you are being flamed?
> > [ ] You crossposted
> > [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
> > [ ] You started an off-topic thread
> > [ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
> > [ ] People don't like your tone of voice
> > [ ] Your stupidity is astounding
> > [ ] You suck
>
> --
> V
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:26:17 -0400
GreyCloud wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > Still got "Dr Who?" on Television here, at 6:00pm on channel Prime, just
> > before the english comedy "Last of the summer wine"
> >
> > Matthew Gardiner
> >
>
> Ouch!! I'm missing out!! It's not shown here anymore. I have a whole
> bookcase full of video tapes from a canadian station. Then the cable
> company pulled them.
>
> Hopefully... someday....
I think WGN still shows it.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:32:15 -0400
billh wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis"
>
> > > Is that what you call the statement that you'd only elect to attend PLDC
> in
> > > the event of another war. That ain't duty KuKuNut. That is
> malingering.
> >
> > If my commander WANTS to send me to PLDC.
> >
> > Personally, I couldn't care less about my rank.
>
> Or the inherent responsibilty of leadership that comes with the rank.
I have enough responsibility in the private sector.
To take on additional responsibility under these circumstances would mean
a) giveing the Army less than an honest effort
and/or
b) giving my employer (which is the source of the TAX MONEY which pays
for the military in the first place) less than an honest effort
and/or
c) shirking family responsibilities.
As an honorable person, I don't bite off more than I can chew.
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:52:56 -0400
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:pCsy6.1863$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > That is what licence agreements are for. You read them and then agree to
> > them or you don't. My advice don't use the service. As for banning incoming
> > mail from M$ that sounds like something they would do.
> >
> > "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > ******************************************************
> > > By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> > > http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
> > >
> > > Microsoft should be feared and despised!
> > > ----------------------------------------
> > >
> > > After taking the time to read the Microsoft Passport Web Site Terms of Use
> > > and Notices I have had a belly full of them. The potential damage they can
> > > do with this license is staggering. I encourage everyone to take the time
> > to read it,
> > > particularly the section entitled "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT". If you've ever
> > > had any doubts about the nature of that company reading that section
> > should
> > > put them to rest for good and all!
> > >
> > > I don't know how many times I've heard Microsoft described as "evil" by
> > > Linux zealots and open source supporters (which I am both) and thought,
> > > "They're losing it... Microsoft is just a company!" but now I'm forced
> > > to agree with them. This license is heinous, and more, it's frightening
> > > because I know that some people won't read it and will lose the rights
> > > to their own data/content without knowing. Add that to the fact that
> > > the license is clearly attempting to gain the rights to *ALL CONTENT
> > > WHICH PASSES OVER ANY SERVICE THEY PROVIDE*. For example... this
> > > article could be copied by someone and sent to someone else who uses
> > > the hotmail email service. According to the license Microsoft would then
> > > own the rights to this article! Unbelieveable you say? Go read it and see
> > > for yourself.
> > >
> > > Most of the time when confronted with things like this I may rage for
> > > a while but I usually conclude that there is little that I can do to
> > > cause the policy to change so why bother doing anything at all but not
> > > this time!
> > >
> > > Effective with this posting the following blocks are in place against
> > > email inbound to MoonGroup.com or any of it's domains. If you truly
> > > understand what their license means you will do the same on your mail
> > > server.
> > >
> > > msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > >
> > > As this is clearly a pre-cursor of what Microsoft's .Net initative is
> > > all about I will be watching very closely to see where it goes. I had
> > > thought that SOAP might be something very useful which would help to
> > > open them up a bit but after reading this license it's clear to me that
> > > all that .Net and Hailstorm are going to be is just another sad example
> > > of "embrace and extend".
> > >
> > > I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
> > >
> > > Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
>
> <sigh> Do you guys ever think for youself?
>
> Do you think that any such terms would ever stand up in court?
> Of course not.
>
> Just because it's in a license agreement does not mean it's instantly
> law.
>
> -c
IIRC most shrinkwrap licenses have been help up in court. IN addition,
you woould have to sue Micro$soft, which have a large cost in dollars
and time. In my opinion, it would be a much better soloution to avaid
the problem byu avaiding sites that might "covert' content into
Micro$oft's property.
--
Rick
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