Linux-Advocacy Digest #411, Volume #33 Fri, 6 Apr 01 02:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Craig Kelley)
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? (667 Neighbor of the Beast)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Craig Kelley)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("RTO Trainer")
Re: Baseball (Anonymous)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Craig Kelley)
Re: Baseball (Anonymous)
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (LShaping)
Re: DON'T COUNT ON THE ECONOMY TO SAVE YOU! (Anonymous)
Re: Baseball (Anonymous)
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (LShaping)
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant ("2 + 2")
Re: Baseball (Anonymous)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: 05 Apr 2001 23:13:48 -0600
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 05 Apr 2001 09:38:42
> >"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >> Oh, so the Rep's were the only ones honest about their dealings?
> >
> >Of course not, but at least republicans go after Microsoft with the
> >intent of restoring a free market, and not with some loony class-war
> >redistribution of wealth fanaticism.
>
> Liberals have no class-war issues; that's just the straw-man of the
> conservatives. Communists have class-war issues. Liberals are not
> watered-down communists. That is, again, just the straw-man of the
> conservatives. They have a lot of them.
You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-ma-toe.
Without getting into the particulars, both class warfare and straw man
classifications are subjective terms as seen through the eyes of an
individual. I would say that flaming [ie, not run-of-the-mill]
liberals are full of straw man arguments (such as: "republicans are
the party of big business while democrats are the party of the people"
[Barbara Striesand]), but that's probably meaningless to you. Also, I
would define such statements as class warfare.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: 667 Neighbor of the Beast <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:14:08 -0700
Alan wrote:
>
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 23:57:34 -0400, "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
> > >
> >I haven't seen that happening since early in the existence of IE4. IE is now
> >built in to Windows, why does an ISP have to distribute it these days?
Listen to the Windoze liars. Lie, lie, lie, lie. All for their crook
buddies, for whom they toe the party line.
During the trial it was made clear that MS frequently offered nearly
free server software for ISP's if they promised to get at least 75% of
their customers to use IE.
The local idiots in my town did just that. They tore out a great
Novell setup and put in NT, IIS, Exchange, the whole mess. They
distribute I.E. and only I.E. on their Internet CD and actively
discourage the use of Netscape. If you call up the help desk and tell
them you use Netscape they get mad. They say, "We encourage all of
our customers to use IE." All of their install disks come with only
I.E. on them, whether for the PC or the Mac.
By the way, their Internet service sucks. I was getting kicked off
4-5 times a day, the WWW and Usenet were real slow, and the news
server and mailserver went down a lot. Netscape was crashing and
getting corrupted all the time. Lo and behold I got myself a real ISP
with Solaris and Netscape Enterprise. I now get kicked off anywhere
from once a day to 2-3 X a week. Usenet and mail loads real fast.
The Internet is like lightning. And Netscape's crashes and
corruptions have been significantly reduced...
--
Bob
Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
today!
Why do you think you are being flamed?
[ ] You crossposted
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] People don't like your tone of voice
[ ] Your stupidity is astounding
[ ] You suck
[ ] Other (describe)
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: 05 Apr 2001 23:22:41 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) writes:
> On 05 Apr 2001 09:38:42 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Of course not, but at least republicans go after Microsoft with the
> >intent of restoring a free market, and not with some loony class-war
> >redistribution of wealth fanaticism.
>
> No, that fanaticism would result in selling off Microsoft and giving
> the money to the poor. As opposed to the loony Republican turn the
> country into an corporate oligarchy fanaticism.
Damn, you figured me out. The reason I use Linux is to build my
secret empire of corporate support to suppress the open source
developers. Not because it's good. Not because it allows me the
freedom of personal discretion in our network. No, nothing so
reasonable as that.
Clue: Selling off Microsoft entirely would eliminate 27,000 jobs
directly and countless other thousands indirectly. They need to halt
their predatorial conduct, or be placed in a situation in which they
are unable to wield a monopoly club -- but they should not be sold off
(who would buy it? Time/Warner? Hmmmm.)
I won't even get into the question of who the poor are, how they are
going to get this money (government lottery?), and how you are going
to prove that they will do something *more* constructive with it than
Microsoft is doing.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "RTO Trainer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:25:44 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Roberto Alsina in alt.destroy.microsoft on 5 Apr 2001 14:33:05 GMT;
> >Roger Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>"Except when you feel it's right" isn't in the Bible.
> >
> >No kidding? ;-)
> >
> >> The correct quote is "tho shalt not commit murder".
> >
> >Well, I am working back from the spanish version, which is simply
> >"No matarás".
> >
> >We would have to go to the original to decide which one is closer,
> >wouldn't we?
>
> Well, the Catholics say that its "thou shalt not kill". The "commit
> murder" phrasing is *definitely* revisionist.
>
Not exactly.
This ('murder' or 'kill') is a debate that has been raging for centuries and
is best discussed by Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek linguists.
Oh, and *not* here. (My opinion)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:26:54 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles,soc.culture.esperanto
cbelway wrote:
> T. Max Devlin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
> > Said Mike in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:16:12 -0700;
> >>"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> why don't you do something to make unix as easy to use as windows while
> >>>> retaining the former's stability and put microsoft out of business?
> >>>
> >>>Windows isn't easy to use, it's pretty damned painful and stressful. To
> >>>have excel GPF because you typed numbers into a cell, and lose your most
> >>>recent work, is frustrating and inexplicable. Especially when you can load
> >>>it up a second time and do exactly the same thing, but this time it wont
> >>>crash.
> >>>
> >>>Every time I use linux, it does what I would expect it to do. THAT'S ease
> >>>of use.
> >>
> >>WHERE ARE THE LINUX BILLIONAIRES?????
> >
> > They're all over the place.
> >
> > Consider the "market price" of a PC OS. Let's say, fifty bucks. Now,
> > that's just an EULA. A developer's license (yea, you see where I'm
> > going with this) with source code and unlimited right to produce
> > derivative property, that would probably cost no less than a few
> > thousand bucks. But that's per computer; the right to distribute the OS
> > or put it on any number (that's ANY NUMBER, one to one million, if you
> > have, sell, or touch that many PCs) of computers.
> >
> > There are several million Linux billionaires, the way I see it.
> >
>
> T. Max Devlin, is Esperanto your native language?
i just wanted to see that again
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
OUT
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: 05 Apr 2001 23:39:04 -0600
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> <snype>
> > That would be horrible. First of all, it gives the biggest parties
> > more money to maintain their strangle-hold on politics. Secondly, it
> > wouldn't address the super-soft money that is silently spent by the
> > mass media on their candidates of choice. Thirdly, it abridges our
> > freedom of speech by masking what we can say (our supreme court has
> > ruled that money is speech).
>
> Well, for example, we have 7 parties in parliament (National, Act,
> United, New Zealand First, Greens, Alliance, Labour), the current
> government is made up of an Alliance, Labour and Greens (same type
> of party as the one in Germany) coalition. The Greens at the last
> election came from no-where to holding the balance of power in the
> coalition. Also, another reason why these parties do get in is
> because there is a +90% turnout on election night, which also helps
> small parties to get into parliament. A MMP system would be a
> viable alternative to the system currently being used in the US.
That's a separate issue. I like the coalitions of a parliment, and I
wouldn't be against having it in the US.
> As for the president, the electral college has to be the biggest
> co-jobs since Microsoft. Presidents should be voted in on the
> number of votes they receive, thus, instead of a small, hicks-ville
> state holding the country to ransom.
Some of us hicks moved to our rural areas because we were disgusted
with the city (in my case, Los Angeles). It all depends on where you
live and how much you (think you) know. Take a look at this:
http://inconnu.isu.edu/~ink/electmap.jpg
Quite a bit of red in that graph. The elecotral college gives a very
slight advantage to states over popular votes, but I don't believe it
is unjustified.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:39:05 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Said Anonymous in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:44:45
> >aaron wrote:
> >> Anonymous wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > Maybe Microsoft will go the full monty and deliver a stable OS for once?
> >> >
> >> > why don't you do something to make unix as easy to use as windows while
> >> > retaining the former's stability and put microsoft out of business?
> >>
> >> It's been so for well over a DECADE, jackie.
> >
> >so you're saying that in 1991 there was a unix system as easy to use as
> >windows is today?
>
> To someone who knows how to use it, Unix is easy to use. To someone who
> does not know how to use it, Windows is hard to use.
which one is easier to learn to use?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:24:25 GMT
>> Jarko Vihriala wrote:
>> > My question is, that why on EARTH does the GUI have
>> > to be integrated to the OS itself?
It does if you want to communicate with the rest of the world.
>> > I mean, why cannot
>> > all the commands be executed on the command line,
>> > just like *nix systems work?
Because the vast majority of users prefer otherwise.
>> > The GUI would be just
>> > extra thing for those clickety-click system users,
>> > who don't know a dick about the OS itself,
Hello troll.
>> > but if
>> > someone would really want to customise the system,
>> > and operate on the command line (even with remote
>> > sessions) they could do that.
And I like system macroing which can help an advanced user do things
with the required operating system, in spite of Microsoft, which make
most computer operators look retarded. And then there is computer
aided design, which is an incredibly powerful part of modern
computing, which requires GUI functions. So Jarko, I guess that is
"life in the big city".
**system macroing is like Visual Basic Scripting or Windows Scripting
Host, but adds the convenience of being able to record functions as
well as write them, before editing.
>> > Personally, I have created a set of scripts to allow
>> > me to use the NT - when I use it - from the command line,
>> > but the GUI is still there, eating my resources
>> > and such.
Sounds like Jarko's personal problem.
>> > Also, if the GUI was not integrated with the
>> > kernel, it would not crash the system if some confict
>> > will occur.
>> > Jarko
Yes, and if we all ride bicycles, we wont have head on collisions at
very high speeds. Perhaps Jarko should consider moving to China.
LShaping
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:42:39 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DON'T COUNT ON THE ECONOMY TO SAVE YOU!
Crossposted-To:
soc.singles,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
"YourBizOpps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BILL GATES SAID IT!!! "BY THE YEAR 2002 THERE WILL BE TWO KINDS OF
> BUSINESS! ***ONLINE BUSINESS *** and ***those who are OUT OF BUSINESS!"
bill gates says a lot of things.
ooooooooh yeah!
> Don't count on the economy to save you! Take control of YOUR future!
> LEGITIMATE! QUICK MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY! Computer and internet
> connection required.
redirect to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:48:36 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Said Mike in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:16:12 -0700;
> >"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>> why don't you do something to make unix as easy to use as windows while
> >>> retaining the former's stability and put microsoft out of business?
> >>
> >>Windows isn't easy to use, it's pretty damned painful and stressful. To
> >>have excel GPF because you typed numbers into a cell, and lose your most
> >>recent work, is frustrating and inexplicable. Especially when you can load
> >>it up a second time and do exactly the same thing, but this time it wont
> >>crash.
> >>
> >>Every time I use linux, it does what I would expect it to do. THAT'S ease
> >>of use.
> >
> >WHERE ARE THE LINUX BILLIONAIRES?????
>
> They're all over the place.
>
> Consider the "market price" of a PC OS. Let's say, fifty bucks. Now,
> that's just an EULA. A developer's license (yea, you see where I'm
> going with this) with source code and unlimited right to produce
> derivative property, that would probably cost no less than a few
> thousand bucks. But that's per computer; the right to distribute the OS
> or put it on any number (that's ANY NUMBER, one to one million, if you
> have, sell, or touch that many PCs) of computers.
>
> There are several million Linux billionaires, the way I see it.
does my freeware copy of pacman make me a pacman billionaire?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:35:25 GMT
LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Jarko Vihriala wrote:
>>> > Also, if the GUI was not integrated with the
>>> > kernel, it would not crash the system if some confict
>>> > will occur.
>>> > Jarko
>Yes, and if we all ride bicycles, we wont have head on collisions at
>very high speeds. Perhaps Jarko should consider moving to China.
Perhaps he is in China, how should I know.
:o/
------------------------------
From: "2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 01:56:46 -0400
Isn't the big question how Intel new McKinley chip will work with .NET's
execution engine or Just In Time compilers? This is a kind of componentized
assembly language (Intermediate Language) that the .NET?
Microsoft has the resources to throw at this Platform Abstraction Layer [TM
Ayende Rahien :) ].
". . . the CLR is able to execute a specific instruction set, known as
Microsoft Intermediate Language (MSIL), the direct embodiment of the VOS
object model. Porting a compiler to dot-NET means, among other things,
retargeting the compiler to generate MSIL instead of, or along with, machine
code or another intermediate language. A distinctive trait of the virtual
machine is that, unlike its Java counterpart, it does not provide an
interpreter: MSIL is meant for on-the-fly compilation to machine code the
first time each MSIL unit is executed. This is also known as "JIT-ting the
code," where JIT stands for Just In Time compilation. Here dot-NET draws on
the lessons of the Java experience (familiar to anyone who has ever seen the
dreaded message "Starting Java" appear in the browser) by putting
performance concerns at the heart of design goals. The results are
impressive: We have seen no difference between the speed of
dot-NET-generated Eiffel# applications and that of code generated through
our standard compiler, which produces machine code through C. The tradeoffs
are clear: Java’s interpreter-oriented design, where JIT compilers are an
afterthought, has fostered portability; dot-NET’s design has put run-time
performance at the top of the design goals. See Bertrand Meyer in "The
Significance of 'dot-NET'" at
http://www.sdmagazine.com/articles/2000/0011/0011l/0011l.htm
2 + 2
Peter da Silva wrote in message <9afkup$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>> Too bad IA32 chips run faster than Alphas now. :)
>
>IA32 has occasionally jumped ahead of RISC for integer, but IIRC they're
>still way back in FP.
>
>> > Well, the physical address bus is 36 bits these days, which means 64gb,
>> > but the virtual address space for processes is still 32 bits or 4gb.
The
>> > physical address extensions (PAE) were introduced in the Pentium Pro
>> > series, and AMD included support for them in the Athlon (K7). These
>> > extensions require modifications to the page tables and thus, OS
support.
>
>There's a special hotrodded version of Windows NT that has support for it
>but IIRC only one version of Oracle actually uses it.
>
>> While arguably you could use these to support a kernel that handles more
>> than 4GB, I doubt many *applications* would actually be able to use more
>> than 2 or 4GB, at least not without another ILP model than that normally
>> used (ILP32).
>
>What they do is play with the page tables. It's very much like the original
>QEMM and LIM hacks to get more than 1M in 80x86 real mode under DOS: you
>make system calls to overlay bits of high (>2G) memory in your 2G address
>range.
>
>I don't see how it'd be any faster than memory mapping the database and
moving
>the offset, unless the Win32 memory mapping is particularly inefficient.
>
>--
> `-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
> 'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
> --
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:09:06 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Said Anonymous in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:06:51
> -0600;
> >"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Maybe Microsoft will go the full monty and deliver a stable OS for once?
> >
> >why don't you do something to make unix as easy to use as windows while
> >retaining the former's stability and put microsoft out of business?
>
> Your result does not logically follow from your premise, I'm afraid.
> What does ease of use have to do with illegal monopolization?
for one thing it's extremely popular and thus affords you the opportunity
to enforce the sort of agreements that got microsoft in trouble with the
clintonistas.
of course you need to understand 'ease of use' from the customer's point
of view. something which appears to be impossible (or at least intensely
painful) for you.
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
